What do you think? In voting for this year’s top goaltender who would you place ahead of the other – Marty or Rask?
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I shouldn’t be surprised that the NHL GMs in their voting placed Brodeur, Bryzgalov and Miller as their “finalists” which really means they are the top three vote getters for this year’s Vezina.
To recap, if you aren’t aware, unlike most of the other awards which are voted on by the media, the NHL general managers vote for the Vezina Trophy winner. The votes are cast after the regular season and before the playoffs. So all the votes are in and the “finalists” are not really finalists in the sense that there is no re-vote now that the top three are established. The leagues top net-minder has actually already been determined and we are only being told who the top three vote getters were.
In our Vezina Trophy poll I went out on a limb and listed Rask instead of Brodeur, but let Marty’s fans get in there under “other.” I’ll leave the poll up for a while longer to see where it goes but the inGoal readers are clearly for Ryan Miller. That is not a big surprise – I fully expect he’ll get the nod when the votes are revealed. The turn around in Phenix this year was remarkable and I’m sure all of us would say Bryzgalov is the biggest reason so it’s great to see him in there. In the third spot though, I really thought that Rask would get in there – all the guy did was lead the league in GAA and save percentage on the league’s 14th placed team.
The Olympics shouldn't count in the Vezina voting - but did they overshadow Brodeur's 45 win season?
I don’t point this out to knock Brodeur – those who think wins are all that count will quickly point out that he led the league in wins. I do think that GMs tend to place more emphasis on past success and far less on the merits of the up and comers. Maybe Rask was hurt by not being the clear #1 for the whole season. Others will say that Claude Julien is a defence-first coach making Rask look better (but since when was New Jersey anything different?) Perhaps it is just the feeling that you need to earn the right to be called the best over several seasons that gave Brodeur the edge.
It’s early in the playoffs, but right now Rask sits far ahead of Marty in save percentage, nearly a full goal better per game and he has him in wins as well.
Brodeur photo courtesy of s.yume
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9 Responses to Vezina Trophy Update – Brodeur over Rask? What’s Your Call?
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Here’s my two cents;
My suggestion to add some perspective to this debate, which as Dave points out, is historically biased towards a goalie’s reputation as much as his accomplishments:
Check the Goalies World Magazine final rankings (goaliesworld.com), which use a formula that takes into account no. of games played, victories, SP and shots per game. On that list Miller comes in first, Nabokov 2nd and Tomas Vokoun 3rd. Brodeur is 7th, Task 13th. Rask has
the best GAA and SP, but his injury time pushed him down the list.
In the case of Vokoun (who faced more shots per game than any other goalie and played 75% of Florida’s games this year), we can see how a losing team’s goalie will almost never be seen as a winner by the NHL GM’s. In fact, Vokoun has been one of the NHL’s steadiest netminders in the last 4 or 5 years, playing in an obscure market for poor to middling teams (wonder whether the Habs ever pinch themselves for not protecting him in the waiver draft many years ago).
Hmm, seems like a couple of years back there was another goalie in Florida who played almost every game, stood on his head night after night but never got a whiff of the Vezina…
PauI always appreciate your thoughtful analysis!
I have to say that the GW rankings are putting far too much emphasis on games played. No way in my books does a guy like Rask deserve to be pushed down to 13th. I can see using games to filter out the second stringers with good numbers, but Rask played plenty to have proven himself.
Vokoun probably deserves more respect than I, and others have given him. Still, I think the Florida situation and putting too much emphasis on big numbers with a poor team that gives up lots of shots is partly what led to Luongo – as much as I like him – being rated far more highly than he has earned (Gold Medal notwithstanding).
Marty has not only reached incredible all time great milestones of 110 shutouts and 600 wins, but this far into his career he’s still the current season leader in both categories. Not only do I think that gives him a deserving spot on the nominee list, it makes him the most obvious choice to win it in my book.
Rask isn’t even in the top 20 in wins. And didn’t even play 60 games. All of the elite goalies in the NHL play just about every game for their teams. Let Rask play a full season as a number one and if he puts up the same numbers he did this year then he deserves a nomination. The Olympics and playoffs have nothing to do with Vezina Nominations. that said I think that Miller should and will win, but to question Brodeur is a joke. Everyone can see the AHL level defense he has been playing behind this year being exposed by the Flyers. It’s really time to stop questioning the guy and give him some credit. All of the records aside he had a great season and deserves the nomination. Enough with the flavor of the week goalies everyone wants to put ahead of Brodeur! Rask will fall by the wayside like the Jim Careys and Steve Masons of the world and Marty will continue his high level of play for a few more years then hang up the pads in the Hall of Fame where they belong.
This debate has brought up some interesting points. One of them is just how much the no. of games dictates who the best goalie really is. Indeed, Goalies World puts a significant emphasis on getting lots of starts. Both Peter and Bryan have underlined the importance of the consistency factor too. Sometimes I wonder if the huge discrepancy between what a no. 1 and a backup get paid literally insures that a lower paid, half-time guy has it tough to get the consideration or the playing time. Rask seems to fit in that category. Both Ryan Miller and Tim Thomas, last year’s winner, had a string of solid seasons under their belts before winning the title. It would be interesting to see whether Rask would have gotten more consideration had he been that good AND played 70 games. Officially, a goalie’s pedigree or past accomplishments aren’t supposed to matter, but in practice that doesn’t seem to hold true. I’m not trying to knock Brodeur, but the award is supposed to go to the best goalie of that season, regardless of what he has done in previous years. That’s why I think a guy like Craig Anderson (a career non-star) could or should be on that list too…
I have to go with Bryan. If you look at Marty’s stats he beats everyone. And most important of all. When you look at the speed en flexibility he still has, it’s just amazing. I still say; Go Marty!
I agree that Rask has not played enough this year and has not racked up enough wins to make the list of three. Winning is still the most important thing in my eyes. That is why Vokoun will probably never make the cut, he just doesn’t have a winner in Florida! Rask is still a great goalie and maybe next year he will be the undisputed main guy and play enough to get the nod (so far he is sure showing his ability in the playoffs). I think Ryan Miller is a shoe in this year. Also, I think that instead of just three nominees they should have five. That way Craig Anderson would make the list (as he deserves) and so would Rask probably. You really can’t knock any of these guys though, they are all the greatest at their position this year. And don’t forget a shout out for my man Jimmy Howard, just when everyone had him counted out he comes through with a big shutout in game four. I don’t think the Wings will go too far this year but Jimmy sure has gotten them this far! Still hope he wins the Calder. Go Goalies everywhere!!!
Scott – great points – Gotta love the performance of both Rask and Howard so far in the playoffs.
I keep wondering – why is it that so many people mention Howard for the Calder but not Rask? Even you had Rask in your top 5 for Vezina and not Howard – but still tip Howard for the Calder.
I love the comments in here, all good.
But in the big show it comes down to WINS, and to get WINS you need to PLAY. Rask had great numbers this year, that’s no doubt, BUT if he played in 65-70 games would those numbers still be as good? Would he get tired and tail off?
In my voting I would have Howard above Rask in Vezina voting as well as Calder voting….. All behind the Vezina winner Ryan Miller or Martin Brodeur…
Why??
Look at what he has done…
63GP 37-15-10 .924 SV% 2.26GAA
That’s STELLAR numbers for a rookie in the big show, and he played behind a team that many nights he was the difference of whether they won or lost. He got stronger at the end of the season when it mattered, and helped Detroit climb up to the 5th seed in the playoffs. Detroit was a banged up team this year, not the powerhouse they usually are, and Howard held them in a lot of games.
Rask on the other hand was allowed to get comfortable (which is how a rookie should be developed) and didn’t get a ton of play time.
Fair? Maybe not, but reality? For sure.