Comments on: What Has Been The Most Significant Development in Goaltending in the Past Decade? http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/ Goalie News, photos, info, tips, techniques by Goaltenders for Goaltenders Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:50:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: 5 For Writing – Hartford Whalers, Head Shots and Goalie Equipment | The Hockey Writers http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-3899 5 For Writing – Hartford Whalers, Head Shots and Goalie Equipment | The Hockey Writers Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:18:31 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-3899 [...] And In Goal Magazine is trying to have a great questioned answered – What has been the biggest change in goaltending over the past ten years? [...] [...] And In Goal Magazine is trying to have a great questioned answered – What has been the biggest change in goaltending over the past ten years? [...]

]]> By: Bill http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-3623 Bill Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:19:52 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-3623 Lots of great comments and facts... The one goalie i was expecting to hear about but didn't was Bernie Parent... I had the pleasure of starting to play goal in 1974... A very good year for the Flyers in large part to Parent. He almost beat Buffalo by himself during the next cup run. The game he played against the Bruins that got them the first cup,a 1-0 win, was incredible enough but they where all great games. He was THE example of a period goaltender. He had mastered his craft with guidance from his mentor Jacques Plant and was the very best at his position at that time. 4 hour games were common because of all the fighting yet he never lost focus. Superstitious you bet. He would never take his mask off (I still have my Plant mask another story) because he didn't want the other team to see his face. He came to the bench in the cup run against the Rangers series needing the win to advance and says "Some fun eh boys?" Calm and cool under fire.. You bet. So the common thread among all the years and all the goalies is the man not the equipment. I played in all that light weight upper body gear and have the aches to show for it. I am still playing only BECAUSE of the equipment. I have coached goalies for the last 11 years and have modified my presentations and style several times. I learn and break that down for my goalies. I also work constantly on their mental toughness. I constantly work them on using their stick more and I have to laugh at the resistance I get...So in this long and winding statement I am saying in response to those thinking equipment or the butterfly save has had a radical effect on the position it is true but the game just changes to beat a one size all goaltender. I also want to say how much this sight offers to all of us that love the best position in the greatest sport.... Lots of great comments and facts… The one goalie i was expecting to hear about but didn’t was Bernie Parent… I had the pleasure of starting to play goal in 1974… A very good year for the Flyers in large part to Parent. He almost beat Buffalo by himself during the next cup run. The game he played against the Bruins that got them the first cup,a 1-0 win, was incredible enough but they where all great games. He was THE example of a period goaltender. He had mastered his craft with guidance from his mentor Jacques Plant and was the very best at his position at that time. 4 hour games were common because of all the fighting yet he never lost focus. Superstitious you bet. He would never take his mask off (I still have my Plant mask another story) because he didn’t want the other team to see his face. He came to the bench in the cup run against the Rangers series needing the win to advance and says “Some fun eh boys?” Calm and cool under fire.. You bet. So the common thread among all the years and all the goalies is the man not the equipment. I played in all that light weight upper body gear and have the aches to show for it. I am still playing only BECAUSE of the equipment. I have coached goalies for the last 11 years and have modified my presentations and style several times. I learn and break that down for my goalies. I also work constantly on their mental toughness. I constantly work them on using their stick more and I have to laugh at the resistance I get…So in this long and winding statement I am saying in response to those thinking equipment or the butterfly save has had a radical effect on the position it is true but the game just changes to beat a one size all goaltender. I also want to say how much this sight offers to all of us that love the best position in the greatest sport….

]]> By: David Hutchison http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-2125 David Hutchison Sun, 07 Mar 2010 06:50:17 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-2125 I stand corrected! Wish I could remember where that 6'4" came from...I didn't make it up....but I'm sure you are right! I stand corrected! Wish I could remember where that 6’4″ came from…I didn’t make it up….but I’m sure you are right!

]]> By: Richard St-Onge http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-2116 Richard St-Onge Fri, 05 Mar 2010 18:31:33 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-2116 Hey David...just for the record, Ryan Miller 6'2 as per Hockey Database and his team profile. HIs being skinny makes him look taller, but not so quite ;) Just a heads up. Rich Hey David…just for the record, Ryan Miller 6’2 as per Hockey Database and his team profile. HIs being skinny makes him look taller, but not so quite ;)

Just a heads up.
Rich

]]> By: David Hutchison http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1768 David Hutchison Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:36:34 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1768 Wow - now that was a rant! Love it.... I've certainly thought that many a goalie today - given today's training and today's gear - could go back in time and be very successful in the 1970 NHL. BUT. Just because we have a technique to better handle low shots than the skate save (oh the hours I spent trying to figure those out, to no avail) doesn't mean we can react and execute in time to deal with 1970 low shots. I played against a former 30+ NHL goal scorer from the 80s - I guess there were a lot of goals then because I had never heard of him, but I looked it up and sure enough there he was. The butterfly might be light years ahead of the skate save, but even that 'oldtimer' with a wooden stick could release the puck without me even noticing and with serious velocity. Bigger, stronger athletes today with high-tech composite sticks can't release the puck any better than a skilled player in the 70s - I would think. Butterfly or not, if you don't react to a shot until it's half way to you, you'll have a hard time stopping it! Wow – now that was a rant! Love it….

I’ve certainly thought that many a goalie today – given today’s training and today’s gear – could go back in time and be very successful in the 1970 NHL. BUT. Just because we have a technique to better handle low shots than the skate save (oh the hours I spent trying to figure those out, to no avail) doesn’t mean we can react and execute in time to deal with 1970 low shots. I played against a former 30+ NHL goal scorer from the 80s – I guess there were a lot of goals then because I had never heard of him, but I looked it up and sure enough there he was. The butterfly might be light years ahead of the skate save, but even that ‘oldtimer’ with a wooden stick could release the puck without me even noticing and with serious velocity. Bigger, stronger athletes today with high-tech composite sticks can’t release the puck any better than a skilled player in the 70s – I would think. Butterfly or not, if you don’t react to a shot until it’s half way to you, you’ll have a hard time stopping it!

]]> By: Jason Power http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1764 Jason Power Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:16:18 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1764 Well, to me this is the only analogy that I can come up with. A young airman was working in the Hospital ICU on base overseas in Japan (True story...) and he had a problem. He kept, on accident, stabbing himself with a syringe when trying to administer it to a patient. After about the 30th report, the young Airman figured out a new way to prevent himself from being stabbed......no more problems. As for Goalies, we could all argue that Glen Hall and Tretiak were using a primitive form of the Butterfly to stop pucks. But I will give credit, and I believe it is due, to Allaire and Roy. Literally, the guy did the stats and realized how many goals were scored in the lower 10" of the net. Hell, I have an OLD VHS of the Courtnal brothers "Shooting and Scoring" (1984ish?) where they even said to shoot low always because according to the NHL, 96% if off all goals were scored there. So they realized the problem, and stopped the bleeding so to say. In comes Roy, who decides..."So I will flare out my legs, and take away all that space". I am fully convinced, that I could take one of my JR goalies...travel back to the 70s...and they would pitch shut outs. Now, I am not taking anything away from the greats of the game like Tretiak, Dryden, or Smith...it was a different game by all means back then. Hell, go find one of those old masks, gloves, or chest protectors (OMG, hey remeber when it used to be a Wilson Catchers chest protector and you had that Padded shirt sleeve thing you wore too?) and tell me how it feels to get hit with a puck! NO WONDER GUYS NEVER WENT DOWN! Side Rant: Why do companies keep making goalie skates weight a ton? There is no reason (in my eyes) to have all that thick plastic back by your ankle. Totally could cut out most of that and make the skate lighter...I hope they take advantage of the technology soon like they have with the forward skates. Look at the way offense is played now. Guys aren't dumb, and this is where stats are deceiving. Players realized that your odds of scoring directly on a shot are few and far between. Teams changed their approach. I see more flybys than ever, I see guys peel away from a shot directly at the net...just to pull a goalie to one side and wait for a second man for a backdoor jammer. The league promotes a pussified version of our game, and allows men who look like a rat to stand on the edge of a goalie crease. Oh wait, you can't touch him! What do you mean you can't see anything and he fell on you to create a goal? (Seriously, do you think Holmstrom would have made it back onto the ice after his first trip to the ER for getting his lights knocked out for doing that back in the 50s-70s?) Gear or no gear, excuses aside...it still all comes down to the skating, technical ability, rebound control, mental focus/determination, and the athleticism of the keeper. How many beaters have you seen at your local rink with Custom RBK or Vaughn gear getting lit up in men's league or shinny? The difference between the guy in nets in the NHL and ECHL can be found in those 5 things (mostly, in my oppinion the mental...but then again, all goalies are mental!) The NHL needs to remember (I pick on them because they lead the charge for smaller gear) that "...It's not the clubs, it's the golfer." Well, to me this is the only analogy that I can come up with.

A young airman was working in the Hospital ICU on base overseas in Japan (True story…) and he had a problem. He kept, on accident, stabbing himself with a syringe when trying to administer it to a patient. After about the 30th report, the young Airman figured out a new way to prevent himself from being stabbed……no more problems.

As for Goalies, we could all argue that Glen Hall and Tretiak were using a primitive form of the Butterfly to stop pucks. But I will give credit, and I believe it is due, to Allaire and Roy. Literally, the guy did the stats and realized how many goals were scored in the lower 10″ of the net. Hell, I have an OLD VHS of the Courtnal brothers “Shooting and Scoring” (1984ish?) where they even said to shoot low always because according to the NHL, 96% if off all goals were scored there. So they realized the problem, and stopped the bleeding so to say.

In comes Roy, who decides…”So I will flare out my legs, and take away all that space”. I am fully convinced, that I could take one of my JR goalies…travel back to the 70s…and they would pitch shut outs. Now, I am not taking anything away from the greats of the game like Tretiak, Dryden, or Smith…it was a different game by all means back then. Hell, go find one of those old masks, gloves, or chest protectors (OMG, hey remeber when it used to be a Wilson Catchers chest protector and you had that Padded shirt sleeve thing you wore too?) and tell me how it feels to get hit with a puck! NO WONDER GUYS NEVER WENT DOWN!

Side Rant: Why do companies keep making goalie skates weight a ton? There is no reason (in my eyes) to have all that thick plastic back by your ankle. Totally could cut out most of that and make the skate lighter…I hope they take advantage of the technology soon like they have with the forward skates.

Look at the way offense is played now. Guys aren’t dumb, and this is where stats are deceiving. Players realized that your odds of scoring directly on a shot are few and far between. Teams changed their approach. I see more flybys than ever, I see guys peel away from a shot directly at the net…just to pull a goalie to one side and wait for a second man for a backdoor jammer. The league promotes a pussified version of our game, and allows men who look like a rat to stand on the edge of a goalie crease. Oh wait, you can’t touch him! What do you mean you can’t see anything and he fell on you to create a goal? (Seriously, do you think Holmstrom would have made it back onto the ice after his first trip to the ER for getting his lights knocked out for doing that back in the 50s-70s?)

Gear or no gear, excuses aside…it still all comes down to the skating, technical ability, rebound control, mental focus/determination, and the athleticism of the keeper. How many beaters have you seen at your local rink with Custom RBK or Vaughn gear getting lit up in men’s league or shinny? The difference between the guy in nets in the NHL and ECHL can be found in those 5 things (mostly, in my oppinion the mental…but then again, all goalies are mental!)

The NHL needs to remember (I pick on them because they lead the charge for smaller gear) that “…It’s not the clubs, it’s the golfer.”

]]> By: paul szabo http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1759 paul szabo Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:58:43 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1759 A response to Dave Hutchinson's comment on SP's: I agree that save percentage has increased due to increased skill level of goalies, but also due to the almost scientific systems used to block the shooting lanes. 20 years ago there were a handful of players who blocked shots; today everyone does it. Consequently, more and more poor percentage and bad angle shots get attempted, hence SP increases. Regarding Jason's rant: I think it is interesting that the open toe save you so poetically ridicule stuck around for so long. Especially considering that the butterfly style had long since been invented, and successfully used, by guys like Glenn Hall and Tony Esposito. Maybe, as you pointed out, it was the poor equipment that caused this technique not to be adopted earlier. Also, it is true that in the 80's and 90's the goalies had equipment that was quite outrageous re. dimensions. Nevertheless, the GAA's were universally higher. I wish the bureaucrats at the NHL head office would get over their seeming vendetta against goalies and their equipment size: it is as much the effective defensive systems as the goalies pad dimensions that explain the lower game scores. A response to Dave Hutchinson’s comment on SP’s: I agree that save percentage has increased due to increased skill level of goalies, but also due to the almost scientific systems used to block the shooting lanes. 20 years ago there were a handful of players who blocked shots; today everyone does it. Consequently, more and more poor percentage and bad angle shots get attempted, hence SP increases.

Regarding Jason’s rant: I think it is interesting that the open toe save you so poetically ridicule stuck around for so long. Especially considering that the butterfly style had long since been invented, and successfully used, by guys like Glenn Hall and Tony Esposito. Maybe, as you pointed out, it was the poor equipment that caused this technique not to be adopted earlier. Also, it is true that in the 80′s and 90′s the goalies had equipment that was quite outrageous re. dimensions. Nevertheless, the GAA’s were universally higher. I wish the bureaucrats at the NHL head office would get over their seeming vendetta against goalies and their equipment size: it is as much the effective defensive systems as the goalies pad dimensions that explain the lower game scores.

]]> By: JR http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1758 JR Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:08:00 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1758 I agree with Jason. Equipment and technique are up there. No more putting the fat kid in net. I agree with Jason.
Equipment and technique are up there.
No more putting the fat kid in net.

]]> By: Mike @ MHH http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1757 Mike @ MHH Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:34:56 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1757 What Jason said. What Jason said.

]]> By: Jason Power http://ingoalmag.com/technique/what-has-been-the-most-significant-development-in-goaltending-in-the-past-decade/#comment-1756 Jason Power Thu, 07 Jan 2010 18:13:33 +0000 http://ingoalmag.com/?p=5451#comment-1756 I like the photo Comparison. But let's keep in mind that Dryden is like 6'4" and Theodore is around 6ft even. Also, as for the pads...I will bet money the pads are smaller now. I am talking leg pads and blockers. I make this bet because I just measured them (we have a set that should belong to Applebees or the Hall on our wall! Also, 14" wide and 39" tall) I have a set of Grant Fuhr's pads (Brown Elites) from the Blues ala '96 that measure 16" across the bottom. Pads currently are 11" The biggest difference is the fact that pads are now 3 dimensional. For instance, find a blocker made previous to 2000 and the thumb piece looked exactly like that of a forward glove, and even went so far as to wrap around towards your wrist. I believe (here comes the geeks) that it was the Koho 560 that was truly the first blocker to incorporate a "plate" on the inside. Now, this is standard. Pads are the same. Look at what Dryden was wearing all the way up to the late 90's. There were NO knee "blocks" just a piece of felt and some straps. There were no calf wedges, just a piece of foam that wrapped around. So now I ask any goalie 30 and older that wore the old gear...if you attempted to butterfly, how do your knees and hips feel? Hurt like hell I imagine. The current gear promotes for greater knee and hip flex-ion. Also, keep in mind this. How many shots you think were over 12" high against Dryden or any goalie of that era? Go watch any video of Gretzky in the 80's...bullshit career. Seriously, wrist shots along the ice from the blue line? Who told goalies in that era it was ok to try and stab the puck with their stick while attempting explode their limbs? I mean seriously, when was the last time you saw any goalie in the NHL (or squirts) fall backwards attempting the splits with their hands waving in the air...all for a slow shot along the ice? I will also end my rant on this note. If it wasn't for more protective gear...there wouldn't be such a surge in the number of goalies in our sport today. Now, kids that weight 150 lbs can play pro hockey and survive. I am for smaller gear, by the old standard (70s) for goalies when players wear thin flimsy leather skates with plastic caps, go back to solid wood sticks with straight curves (no fiber glass allowed even) and don't wear a helmet. THEN, and ONLY THEN, would a goalie be safe again :-) I like the photo Comparison.

But let’s keep in mind that Dryden is like 6’4″ and Theodore is around 6ft even.

Also, as for the pads…I will bet money the pads are smaller now. I am talking leg pads and blockers. I make this bet because I just measured them (we have a set that should belong to Applebees or the Hall on our wall! Also, 14″ wide and 39″ tall)

I have a set of Grant Fuhr’s pads (Brown Elites) from the Blues ala ’96 that measure 16″ across the bottom. Pads currently are 11″

The biggest difference is the fact that pads are now 3 dimensional. For instance, find a blocker made previous to 2000 and the thumb piece looked exactly like that of a forward glove, and even went so far as to wrap around towards your wrist.

I believe (here comes the geeks) that it was the Koho 560 that was truly the first blocker to incorporate a “plate” on the inside. Now, this is standard.

Pads are the same. Look at what Dryden was wearing all the way up to the late 90′s. There were NO knee “blocks” just a piece of felt and some straps. There were no calf wedges, just a piece of foam that wrapped around.

So now I ask any goalie 30 and older that wore the old gear…if you attempted to butterfly, how do your knees and hips feel? Hurt like hell I imagine. The current gear promotes for greater knee and hip flex-ion.

Also, keep in mind this. How many shots you think were over 12″ high against Dryden or any goalie of that era?
Go watch any video of Gretzky in the 80′s…bullshit career. Seriously, wrist shots along the ice from the blue line?

Who told goalies in that era it was ok to try and stab the puck with their stick while attempting explode their limbs? I mean seriously, when was the last time you saw any goalie in the NHL (or squirts) fall backwards attempting the splits with their hands waving in the air…all for a slow shot along the ice?

I will also end my rant on this note. If it wasn’t for more protective gear…there wouldn’t be such a surge in the number of goalies in our sport today. Now, kids that weight 150 lbs can play pro hockey and survive.

I am for smaller gear, by the old standard (70s) for goalies when players wear thin flimsy leather skates with plastic caps, go back to solid wood sticks with straight curves (no fiber glass allowed even) and don’t wear a helmet. THEN, and ONLY THEN, would a goalie be safe again :-)

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