InGoal Radio Episode 248 with Cayden Primeau & Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen

Intro

Presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. This is InGoal Radio, the podcast, and we have a jammed episode today. On our NHL Sense Arena feature interview, Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen The Buffalo Sabres and Cayden Primeau from the Montreal team. A pair of young, great goaltenders coming up in chats with Kevin Woodley. And our Gear Segment at the Hockey Shop with Cam will focus on the True Project X stick.

It's light as a feather. It'll cost you a couple of dollars, but it is unbelievable, the technology that's going into that. And we'll also get into maybe the the Vezina Trophy race as we head down the stretch of the National Hockey League as we bring in the cofounders of InGoal Magazine. It is David Hutchison leading into that mic with a beautiful deep voice and secluded into a dark corner for his ambiance at Rogers Arena is Kevin Woodley. I like what you've done with the place.

Well, yeah. I I've done it, like, you notice how I always set it up? I think this is just I know we don't use the video. We never use the video, but I think I set myself up in the press box with this shot every time. Like, if I'm doing, like, sort of, like, TV appearances while I'm here, I always do this one just in case my wife watches because there's more people won't know what I'm talking about, but there's a photo of Marcus Naslund over my right shoulder, and she she like, he is her favorite.

Absolutely. So, yeah, anytime Marcus is back in town in Vancouver, my wife that's the only time my wife seems to wanna go to a hockey game. So that's for you, hon.

Nice. Hutch, do you have any, like, tributes that you lean on when it comes to hockey and your wife?

She's a goalie too, so she sort of leans into the goalie world just like just like the rest of us. Definitely, Henrik Lundqvist is high up on her list though. She, thinks he's pretty stunning. And as a result, I snuck into her phone and I changed my profile picture to Henrik Lundqvist. So every time I phone, she gets to see him.

Well done. That's sneaky. I didn't think you were that deceptive.

We like to have a little fun.

Wow. I'm not

I I wouldn't have a clue how to get into my

Wife's phone. Just gonna say I don't

have the technological ability to do any of this. I'd have to ask my kids to do it for me. Sad, but sure.

Yeah. No secrets. We have each other's passwords.

Oh, no. That's well done.

It's not a password problem for me, Hutch. It's a technology problem as you are well aware.

Anything other than face ID and Woody's hooped?

I keep trying the face ID on her phone, and it doesn't it doesn't work for some reason. Listen. We got these two great feature interviews coming up in just a little bit, plus we'll get into the Gear Segment. The parent segment as well is going to deal with being invited to a junior training camp. Hutch is coming up with that.

NHL Talk

But let's start off with where we're heading down the stretch here. Some teams have single digits in games left in the National Hockey League. How many people do you think are truly in contention to be a finalist for the Vezina this year, Woody?

K. Finalist or Finalist. Gonna win the award? Because that's I'm not talking a winner. That one's easy right now. Okay.

So the winner is easy.

The winner is easy. Even if the numbers suggest it should be a lot closer than maybe the vote will be, I would put I I was gonna say put a mortgage payment on it, but I don't wanna cause anyone any trouble. Like, Connor Hellebuyck's winning the Vezina Trophy, and he's a deserving finalist. I just think there are other guys you can make an argument for and a pretty good argument for it to be a closer race than ultimately I expect it to be. And one of them two of them, are actually slightly ahead of him in goal saved above expected, which at the end of the day is sorta the purest measure we have of, you know, how have you performed relative to your environment.

And goal saved is, you know, it's cumulative because, obviously, if you play more behind a bad team, you get a chance to build up some some goals saved. And a couple of guys have done that. Jacob Markstrom, second in the NHL at 24 and a quarter. Jordan Binnington, number one in the National Hockey League, 24.6 goals saved above expected. The Hellebuyck's actually had a nice little heater now.

He's up to 24. Those are, to me, are your three finalists. I think Thatcher Demko might get into that mix even though, he's sort of ran so hot at the beginning of the season, leveled off for a long stretch, now ultimately got hurt down the stretch. I think those are sort of your four names that you'll hear in this conversation, or you should. I'm curious whether Binnington and Markstrom even get the recognition because they're on bad teams and the raw numbers aren't nearly as appealing.

Now you you can't put two finalists in there on from teams that don't make the playoffs.

Why not? Why like like, honestly, like, is it the best goalie, or are we just talking the team, like because honestly, like, where the Calgary Flames would be without Jacob Markstrom is vying for the Macklin Celebrini sweepstakes. Like, his expected save percentage in the eight seventies. They are a bottom three to four team defensively on the year, and he has bailed them out at a level like no one else. Until the stretch drive here where they basically traded away their number one pairing, he was almost lapping the field.

He was a full until they traded away Hanafin and Chris Tanev, Markstrom's numbers were actually a full 10 better than second place in goal saved above expected. Now he's come back down to earth because the team that was already struggling defensively did trade away two good defenders, but he's still in the top three. I don't know why he can't be in the conversation, but Bobrovsky won it missing the playoffs one year, so why can't we have two guys as finalists? Like, the one argument that I will give people is it is easier to sort of rack up these numbers behind bad defensive teams, and both St. Louis and Calgary are bad defensive teams. So

Although you've just shown that it's also hard when it gets really bad defensively because he just explained it got worse for Markstrom when they traded away two defensemen. And consistency is the It's a sweet spot, maybe.

Consistency is the hardest part. Like, you know how it is. Like, when your team is bleeding chances, you can go on runs in heaters, that's what Binnington's done. Exceptional at the start, little dip, exceptional around sort of the new year, and now exceptional down the stretch. Hey.

What if he gets them in the playoffs? Right? I know it's a long shot, but they're fighting. What Markstrom has done consistently up until, like I said, this last few weeks, a couple injuries in that trade, like, behind an expected of eight seventy five for most of the year to outperform it at a level nobody else is even touching. We're talking like Linus Ullmark levels of say percentage above expected for the entire season to maintain it.

Like, it's it's it's really hard to do. It's special, and I think it should be recognized.

Any chance Boston runs it back and wins consecutive years, whether it's Swayman or Omar?

I don't think wins just because I said this one is Hellebuyck's to lose. I think the fact they split so much probably hurts both their chances, if that makes sense. And I guess I would ask you let me ask you this question, Daren. Which one do you think has a chance to run it back out of the two? What's the perception versus the reality?

Swayman. Interestingly enough, Linus Ullmark has a higher goal saved above expected this year.

I walked right into that.

I I know. I I kinda did set you up. Adjusted save percentage too. Linus Ullmark at plus 1.2. Jeremy Swayman down to plus 0.8, which is sort of in the teens on the year.

They've taken a step back, you know, in in sort of the last month defensively, and those guys as they were incredible early, but they haven't again, the consistency behind a bad defensive team, they haven't been able to sort of maintain the level they had earlier in the season. And another point, if we wanna dig down into the minutiae, like, compare what you know, Binnington and Hockey are both playing really well for the St. Louis Blues. So does that take any sort of shine off the apple for Jordan Binnington? When you look at Connor Hellebuyck, guess what? Laurent Brossoit has the identical adjusted save percentage.

Actually, slightly, slightly better adjusted save percentage on the season. So behind that environment, Lorent Brossoit, who's not getting any Vezina votes, is performing at the similar level to Connor Hellebuyck. Jacob Markstrom is number two in the league at plus 2.3% adjusted save percentage. The next Calgary Flame is sixtieth in the NHL in Dan Vladar. So if you talk about sort of showing and demonstrating just how tough the job is that Markstrom has had, you'll compare other guys have backups performing similarly.

For Jacob Markstrom, nobody's been able to touch what he's done. I think in part because the environment's been so tough.

There is a feeling that you can't win NHL MVP, the hard trophy, if you don't make the playoffs. Last year, the Norris trophy winner did not qualify for this ten night cup playoffs. So maybe it is more wide open for somebody to win it without qualifying.

Should Connor Hellebuyck here's the thing. I just told you that Hellebuyck maybe, you know, like, he should win it, but it's not a slam dunk that everyone says it is. Should he be in the Hart conversation? Because the part that builds his

team I don't think it's been dominating enough.

He's had no run support.

Yeah. I just I don't think it's been I don't think it's been dominating enough.

Okay.

I just that's my feeling.

So I I think the case that people are making is like, because his his numbers when they're up a goal, like in tight situations, and this where this is where I too would tip the scale in his favor to give him the Vezina trophy, they're off the charts. Like, a lot of the goals saved that Connor Hellebuyck has done this year are in tied or up a goal situations. He's been incredible. Like, let's face it. But you're right.

Adjusted save percentage, like, this is not even what Shesterkin was doing in his Vezina year. Like, it's a little more there's a lot of environment in this for Connor Hellebuyck. As incredible as he's been and Laurent Brossoit has been, he hasn't had to perform at that sort of you know, to me, like, you're you gotta be in the nine forties to sort of have that conversation. And even relative to expected that, like, the year Shesterkin had, he was not almost plus 3%. Hellebuyck's at plus 1.8.

Markstrom's at plus 2.3. Nobody's touching those types of carry price, MVP, you know, or even Igor Shesterkin when he was in the conversation three years ago.

Amazingly, a year ago at this time, we didn't know who would be playing goal for Winnipeg at this time. And they've resigned Hellebuyck. They bring in Laurent Brossoit, and it's worked out great from Kevin, the general manager's perspective. Let's get into our parent segment. And junior teams starting to round out their schedules, getting into the playoffs.

Parent Playbook

We're moving down that that path, which also means you're starting to look ahead. And interesting question as we forecast, for parents to deal with or grapple with, Hutch.

Yeah. I've already had a few questions from parents who've reached out to me, parents@InGoalmag.com, if you have any questions. People want to know about junior camps and whether they should be looking at them and and looking to send their kids. And this is a question that I'm sure, you know, forwards and defensemen have the same question. Maybe it's a bit different from goal for goalies just for a reason I'll get to in a bit, Daren.

But just just to give it a little perspective, Junior A and Junior B teams often have open invite invitation camps. The CHL, they're they're by invitation. I'm not familiar with the American system, so I can't speak to that. But but we're talking about a situation where teams have open invite camps that just about anybody can go to. And you tend to have parents in two different camps.

One would be the group of parents that are worried about missing some opportunity. They need to chase every opportunity they can. They think they need to have scouts checking out their kids as often as possible and and just want to chase everything. And then you've got this other group of parents online tend to be quite loud about it. They just say, oh, it's crazy.

These camps are just a cash grab. All the spots on the team are already taken. Why would you send your kid to one of these camps? So just thought I'd give my perspective since I get the question a fair bit, guys. I've coached in the BCHL, which is arguably the top junior league in in Canada.

And I've had a kid who has gone to their camps and has gone to Western League camps. I've got a little bit of experience with this. And look, I I was in exactly the same situation when Matty went to his, first real opportunity at a BCHL camp. I had to reach out to a goalie coach who'd worked with him and just say, is this something he really should do? I was unsure too.

So just to respond to how I tend to tell parents, look, it's true. They make money for teams. They're generally paid $300, $350 for a weekend, something along those lines, with the exception again being the CHL teams because they're invite only, they're free generally. But I think it's unfair to call them a cash grab because look, it's a reality. Junior teams have to make some money.

So they do. And and and they're providing a service in these camps. You're getting something that you're paying for. So I think cash grab is a little bit unfair. I think that term tends to come about guys because people think that when you go to these camps, there's really no point because all the spots on the team were already spoken for.

Teams commit players verbally or written, even before these camps happen. Rosters tend to be generally built out away from this camp procedure. And so people think it's a cash grab because there's no spots available, but there are. I definitely think that you should ask around to make sure that the camps are a good experience, like team by team because I've been to camps where they've got six goaltenders and it's a great opportunity for ice time and they are fairly looking at kids. And I actually walked into a rink one time, guys, one of the rinks that Woody plays in.

Maybe I was there to watch Woody play. I'm not sure. And there was a BCHL camp doing goalie auditions and I kid you not, there was more than a dozen kids lined up at a single net. And they would go in for

was was Woody one of them?

No. No. And literally, they'd go in for two, three shots and then they'd cycle out for the next kid. Now I would not have spent money on a camp like that for my kid. But but I do think there's a place for them.

And it's true that many of the spots are taken on the team, but it's also true that spots are available.

Can you ask questions of the organization? Is that

I think it's a 100% fair. I think it's a 100% fair to do that. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? And and by the way, don't wait to be invited.

Like, check out the websites of the teams that you're interested advertise spring camps when they happen. And I hope that there's a limit in the number of spots that they take because that shows that they're trying to provide a really good experience.

There are there are for some. I've actually had this conversation on behalf of a parent friend whose son is approaching this age. And I had this conversation with the BCHL team recently and a goalie coach that I know and trust about maybe attending theirs. And he took a look at some film and said Mhmm. This kid looks like he can play, and so please give me his name because we get more submissions than we have space for

for sure.

I want this to be a very real experience. Does it mean I have a spot this year? Not necessarily. Although if you wow them, you never know. You know, it it's a chance for my friend's son to sort of see how he fares and stacks up at a level he hasn't competed against before.

And, of course, the caveat is, hey. It's probably not BCHL shooters. It's a bunch of shooters that want to make the BCHL. So you're not gonna get to maybe see the BCHL shooters in this example. But if you can't hang with the prospective kids, you're probably not gonna be able to hang with the ones that are already in the league.

So it can be used as a measuring stick and a chance to understand better where your young goalie ranks as they attempt to make these strides, and there's value in that. I think also too, it's fair to ask, is there any actual coaching time? Because there's a lot of really good goalie coaches in the BCHL, for example, and I'm sure in other junior a leagues across the country. And I I do think it's fair to ask, hey. Is this just gonna be, as you said, Hutch, 12 kids at a goalie station, they all get three shots each from, you know, different shooters, or they're actually gonna be goalie specific drills and exercises, and there could be value in that as well.

For sure, can. I but where I was gonna go with it, Woody, is that I think there can be value in the camp regardless. First off, I would say that guys do get signed out of these camps. Let's put that side bit to the side. They're not a pure cash grab for spots that aren't available.

My son went to a camp and was offered a spot on a team right out of camp. It had nothing to do with being preselected. There are players on my son's team in the Western League that were camp invites and, were not drafted. They were just, quote, unquote, filling out a roster for camp, and they showed that they deserved a spot on the team

and they got it every year. I do think the people that I used to think about this

as well. You know, and I've talked to

a few coaches about this. The people that yell the loudest about it just being a cash grab are usually the ones whose kids didn't get selected after having spent the cash.

Yeah. And and just, like, don't have expectations that are too high. I think what Woody was saying about getting a good experience and seeing how you stack up is true. Also, what do goalies need the most? I mean, a lot of goaltenders are getting a lot of time with goalie coaches, are learning skills at a young age.

Sometimes we even have the debate on here saying kids are being over coached at a young age, but they need gameplay. So you go to a camp, BCHL, AJ, OJ, whatever it might be, and you get four or five games in a weekend. You get to see gameplay. If you're on the young side of the invites for those camps, chances are you're in games with kids that are three, four years older than you. They might not be ready for that league yet, as Woody said, quite correctly, but they're still pretty darn good compared to you at your age.

So great experience. And in my experience, Woody, there are players, rostered players at a lot of these camps because even though they fill out the goalie slots really quickly, quite often they haven't completely filled out the player slots. And so they'll invite some of the local guys on the team or something to come out and fill out the roster. So all that to say, they're not cheap, have a budget, be realistic. But I think you can get some good value out of the gameplay in these camps.

I would even argue cheaper per game in a lot of camps than your spring hockey experience that a lot of parents are lining up for. So it's a different thing to do, Something fun for kids to do. Just go in with an open mind, understand it's unlikely, but you just never know where it's going to lead. And maybe it's not a roster spot, but maybe it's for a phone call later on in the season when somebody's injured or they want to give you a look if you've had a good year. That's that's in general my long winded response, guys, when parents ask me what to do about camps.

And if they're not ready, it's a reality check.

Yeah. And that's fine.

Discussed sending us some video. That's interesting too to try and get ahead of the curve and and navigate that. I wonder, can you send in NHL Sense Arena tape and and say, I've got this great glove hand. Like, I'm working on this thing. Like, NHL Sense Arena has has blossomed.

It's getting, it's getting closer. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened one day. You'd able to file some of your drills and Sense Arena and teams could log on to watch you just like they do already with, some of the other services out there. That'd be pretty cool. Did you guys see some of the video going around?

Devin Cooley got his first NHL start for San Jose recently and he was warming up outside the dressing room with Sense Arena on. That got me thinking that as we just mentioned, spring hockey season is around the corner for a lot of people. Time to change routines or with maybe a different group of people. You're going to do things a little bit differently. Why not put Sense Arena into your routine like Devin Cooley?

Try a warm up before practice. Try a warm up before a game. See if working your hands from some shooters are going to hit the net unlike a lot of the guys on our teams, unfortunately. And maybe you're gonna be a little bit more ready when you hit the ice. And using Sense Arena in a warm up, like Devin Cooley and like some of the other goaltenders in the National Hockey League that use it today, could be something great to add to your routine.

Just one of the many things that Sense Arena gives us from great drills, eye hand coordination stuff, to what Kevin Woodley is dying to tell us about right now.

Well, no, I just think it's great that we see that video because you've gone through this, We know young goalies have gone through it where they feel like it would benefit them, but they're too embarrassed to break up the Sense Arena set at the rink Yeah. Because it it feels so unusual. And yet we've heard from Joey Daccord using it between periods in an NHL game he's playing in. Devin Levi using it at the rink. Joey Daccord at the rink.

Now Devin Cooley. Like, they're normalizing it for the kids that are maybe a little sheepish that they're gonna get ribbed, you know, at 13 or 14 years old if they pull this thing out as part of their preparation tool. When you see guys at the highest level doing it, guess what? It's okay.

Yeah. And I hope some goalie coaches will let head coaches know that this isn't crazy too because I could see that's probably a source of some of the concern for kids. What's my coach gonna think if I put on the headset and go play some games outside the dressing room? So guys, Sense Arena, great thing to try this spring. Head over to sensearena.com.

You know the code, IGM 50, and you'll save a bit more.

Presenting our feature interviews, which will include, Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen from Buffalo Sabres. That's a fun conversation. Plus Cayden Primeau of the Montreal Canadiens as Woodley navigates his journey as well as, being around Carey Price, which is fun, and the impact of Jake Allen, which I thought was a great response and and commending what Jake was able to do during the course of a three goaltender season. I love the way they navigate that too as the three guys and the goalie coach. It was it was a system.

It wasn't as painful as we've seen three goalies being on the roster in the past. Our Gear Segment tackling the True Project x stick courtesy of InGoal Radio, the podcast at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Surrey, the hockeyshop.com.

Well, hey. Just before we get to the the stick, just one more example of new gear flying in to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports now. We're sort of getting into that March, April where we expect gear launches, but as we said many times, it's been year round. Right? Like, new product Vaughn SLR four came in, like, a month ago.

There's new product from True that we've reviewed. New product coming from Bauer, the shadow line. You can go do your customizer there. And you know what happens if you can do the customizer? It means you can order custom gear.

And where better to do that than talk to Cam and his crew at the Hockey Shop. They'll know all the details on the shadow line. So if you get on that customizer and you find a look you like, they'll be able to make sure you order the specs that will suit your game. It's just one more reason to make sure you shop at the hockey shop and the hockeyshop.com, including all the new stuff, like the new Project x sticks that, honestly, I didn't know that much about. So let's have Cam fill me in and fill you in at the same time.

Gear

Welcome back to Hockey Shop Source for Sports. I'm over in Goalie Utopia with Cam Matwiv, and we have the new True Project x stick. And it is not only a pretty sexy looking stick, but it's got some innovative shapes, designs, features Yeah. And a whole lot

of flex. It does have a lot of flex. So True's kinda created four unique flex points flex points for the stick.

[crosstalk] Four unique flex points. Easy for me to say, folks.

Goodness. Right?

Cocktail. Okay.

Where you're seeing things be a little bit different from what we've seen kind of in the past, a lot of focus on, like, paddle flex and whatnot. Very flexible shaft, actually, for this guy. So, basically, as you're going to go play the puck and you're inverting your hand and putting it down, can see how that shaft really actually bows in and bends exactly well in theory where you're gonna be popping your glove when you go to go for your shot. So passing, shooting, things like that, you really get some good torque behind this, and you'll see that here in a second too as well. Okay.

So VSS makes its return.

VSS is?

Vibration suppression system. Oh. So, basically, there's a rubber Insert. Insert. We'll go with that. Right inside, the paddle and, the shaft right exactly where they meet there. So any of that designed to basically absorb

Correct.

The vibrational. That's a that the waves of vibration are absorbed by that rubber insert.

The waves of vibration.

Vibrate vibrations happen in waves, Cam.

Yes. I you know why I learned that?

It's cool. Because actually one of the first companies to do that was Warrior. Uh-huh. Way back in the day back when we're having issues with composite for goalies not having that same feel of vibrations in the early iterations of composite, they were the first ones to insert have have sort of proprietary tech inserted to take out vibrations. There you go. See? Learn something every day,

old school. Yes. From Woody himself.

I gotta say those old sticks did not have this, however.

Yes. So now we kinda kinda again start to see where those unique flex points starts to come into that stick. So what they call their invert tech.

Invert. Yes. So N v r t.

Invert. And we're back to that. It's my favorite. Goalies spelling things like goalies. We don't like vowels.

No. So as you feel do you feel it and checking it out?

Well, it's it's hard. It's probably hard for people to see, but it's sort of like

It's concave here.

It thins and it's sort of got like a little channel up up in that one section right just through here. There's sort of like a little almost like a cutout channel and and the whole thing thin. So it's Correct. It's kinda hard to show because of the shininess and the light reflecting off it, but you can sorta, there's just a little channel there. That's why I'm touchy touchy today.

So stiff. Stiff. Soft.

Stiff. Stiff. Soft. Soft. Yeah.

Stiff.

No. Well, soft. Stiff. Instead of the shaft one zone. One zone.

Okay. I thought you said it got stiffer at the top.

No. Other way around.

Oh, okay. So it's soft to

stiff. Okay. So greater raw feel. Again, if you're looking for a stick that you can launch pucks with, no problem. And you're also looking for the lightest weight stick at What?

555 grams, ladies and gentlemen.

Where does that where does that measure up to sort of say At what's the true scale? Like, where like, compared to some of their other

This is the lightest stick they

That's the lightest stick that you have. There you go.

Pretty sure we're like, that's the lightest goal stick period at 555 grams for a 25 inch. Okay. Nice. So if you're, like, for the lightest stick and also something that's quite flexible and able to play the puck quite well, maybe you should be checking out the project x. Probably say it now, though. It's not cheap. It's not cheap. It's not cheap.

It's not cheap. So as things have kind of gone around here, we're looking at an upper $440 price point.

Canadian for our American friends, that's like almost like double what you pay.

Yeah. It's like two cups of coffee

at Starbucks in The States as I always like to say.

Exactly. So if you wanna learn more about this, can give me a call at (604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790. You can check it out at the hockeyshop.com. We got it up there. Project x.

It's not just a movie party.

It's flexible.

You remember that movie?

No. I have no idea what you're talking about.

You you wanna fill in those of us that didn't understand that?

Project X was a movie in 2012. If I remember correctly, it was a high school kids threw a party, maybe a birthday party for themselves in Cali, and things just spiral completely out of control. So, yeah, that's it. I don't remember the particulars. I actually don't think I've even seen it, but for some reason, it's the first thing that came to mind. So, yeah, that's it's that's You know what I

do like about this this stick is the flexible part of it. I I can't I'm kind of encouraged that that's coming back instead of just stiff, stiff, stiff, stiff, stiff.

Me too. I like flex because I'm not strong enough to flex And different

flex point to give some options to people.

Yeah. I know there's I think that's There's some innovation in there. I liked it.

A couple of interviews in our NHL Sense Arena feature interview segment. We're going to chat with Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen from the Buffalo Sabres in just a little bit. But first up, Cayden Primeau, and what a journey and what a navigating job he's done this year from three goalies the entire year to now just getting a little bit more time in the net in a more traditional environment with the beautiful franchise, the long history of the Montreal Canadiens.

Yeah. We get into all of it. We talk about what it's like to put on that sweater. I mean, it's it's funny. It wasn't something I intended to ask, but I'm sort of sitting there with him in the stands here at Rogers Arena the other day, and, you know, he's got the gear on. Right?

Like, you know, the big CH on the logo on the chest and the hat, and you just sorta like, you're just sorta struck by it. Right? And you sort of wonder what it's like to be a part of that. Right? Mean, talking to a guy who's got a tattoo of Ken Dryden on his arm.

Right? I thought it was cool at the game the other night here in Vancouver, the Habs visiting. I looked down and in the first row behind the benches, there were three jerseys in a row. It was Plant, Roy, and Price. All people wearing those jerseys at the game.

And I'm just like, so to be part of that heritage, we got into that. And, you know, and listen, like, ties in between these two interviews. Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen and Cayden Primeau, I covered the 2019 World Juniors here in Vancouver. They were head to head in the gold medal game, and here we are five years later, seven years after they've both been drafted, and they're both it's taken this long to sort of get that foot in the door and establish themselves. Ukko's a little bit of a step ahead.

He got a start last year. He got 33 games last year, he'll talk about it. Cayden's playing catch up, but you can see the strides he's made. Of those strides, we'll get into it here, we'll listen to what he says. Some of the strides, he he credits, you know, quite openly to Pete Fry, the goalie guy, and the work he's done on the mental side.

Yeah. Pete is a star in this interview, the acknowledgment there. And Cayden comes from a hockey family. He's been around stars before, but even he admits being in that environment in Montreal is next level. It's the NHL Cense Arena feature interview part one with Cayden Primeau on InGoal Radio Podcast.

Feature Interview - Cayden Primeau

Really excited to sit down with Cayden Primeau who is getting a taste now as an everyday National Hockey Leaguer. What's this experience been like for you to get the opportunity? It's funny. I was talking to earlier today. Sometimes it just takes time.

He's getting the same thing right now. Remember watching you guys in this very same building at the World Juniors. What's what's it like to finally get a, you know, a deeper opportunity at the National Hockey League level?

Yeah. It feels good to get some stability just having the two goalies now. But it's been it's been great all year. Monte, Jake, and I have have, you know, clicked and worked well together. And, you know, I would have liked to play more.

Obviously, everyone does. But being able to work with Eric a little bit more than you normally would, so during a season has been super beneficial as well. So, yeah, it's been great, and just really excited for the opportunity.

So we always hear from the outside, like, three goalie systems, it can't work. Three doesn't go into two. The math maybe doesn't work, but sounds like you found some benefits to it in terms of having that extra time. As you said, everyone wants to play, but to have that extra development time with Eric Raymond and also having an influence like Jake Allen around.

Yeah. Definitely. I think it works so well because of the the four of us and our relationships. But, yeah, being able to work with Eric, you know, I sat down at the beginning of the year when when the three goalie system was put in place, and I was like, okay. How do I get the most out of this year?

And I think we we did a really good job of, you know, doing everything we could. Being able to have two ice sheets sometimes at the practice rink in Montreal has been has been huge.

So were there days where the two two goalies would be on with the team doing the quote, unquote team stuff and the other guy would be over with Eric just doing goalie stuff?

Yes. So we would rotate actually throughout the practice. Two guys would be doing the practice, and then one guy would be on the other side doing some a couple drills with Eric. And then he would come back, join the team, and then send send another goalie over.

Now what kind of things have you changed anything? Like, I wanna get to the mindset stuff and your work compete, but have you changed anything? Like, technically, the the game's always changing. Goalies are always evolving. Is is what's been that progression like for you this season, last season, over the last couple of years with Marco as well as with Eric?

Yeah. I think trying to use my size to my advantage has been huge. Definitely getting stronger. I'm able to play a bit further out because I can trust, you know, that I can can get to that next next next pass, next shot. But, honestly, the biggest thing has just been mentally.

Working with Pete has been you know, changed my perspective on so many things and, yeah, just it's changed everything.

Okay. So there's probably a lot of young goalies out here. They hey. If they're InGoal Magazine people, they've seen our work with Pete, and they've heard about it, but they've always maybe been hesitant. What for you like, what clicked?

What what is it that's helped you working with him? Because there are a lot of different elements he touches on.

It's hard to pinpoint one thing, honestly, but just creating your own confidence has been huge for me personally. I think he talks about athlete mindset, and that's been huge. Just changing just shaping the way that I I see I view the game, you know, has been the biggest difference maker.

It's hard to pinpoint one thing, honestly, but just creating your own confidence has been huge for me personally. I think he talks about athlete mindset, and that's been huge. Just changing just shaping the way that I I see I view the game, you know, has been the biggest difference maker.

Okay. So athlete mindset versus, say, a fan mindset. For those that, you know, haven't been to one of his things, What for you? Like, give me an example where there's a situation that's happened and you're staying within your own mindset rather than, you know, maybe seeing it from the outside and how you might have thought of it in the past versus now.

I think just without going into too much detail

Yeah. We do yeah. Hey. Listen. I'm not don't want you to I know I'm putting you on the spot here, but don't give away any secrets also.

That's always a caveat here at InGoal.

Yeah. So I think just being able to want play in your end has been one of the bigger shifts in in mindset and really trying to make sure that you're you're using your your mentality in a way that sorry. This is not coming out anyway.

No. It's okay. Because it

it it I've seen that. I've seen him present it. How you as an athlete internalize it is it's unique to everyone. So don't worry. Like, it doesn't doesn't have to be his language.

Yeah. Exactly. Pete makes it come across a lot easier. He's also been doing it for a long time. Exactly.

Exactly. But, yeah, just just the perspective of of being an athlete verse verse a fan. It's it's honestly just that when you you boil it down.

So as simple as, say, after a goal, how you approach. Has that changed? How you think about a goal? Just staying in the moment, tools to stay in the moment versus thinking what everyone how everyone else is perceiving you?

Not necessarily. I think I think I kinda have always You've always done that? Done that. I've always tried to, you know, not really sway on how the game's going more so on the defensive side, but I think the biggest shift with Pete has been on the offensive side.

You said self confidence, building self confidence. If you could again, if there's a young kid that say, hey. How like, Cayden, you're in the NHL. How do you a, they probably wonder, how could you ever not be confident? You've had a, you know, had a great junior career up until pro.

And, b, how do I create self confidence? Any advice for a young goalie other than just take Pete's seminar?

I was just about to say, well, you don't have to work with Pete. But I think it comes down to not worrying about things you can't control. Right. But then, also, it's a domino effect. Once you you feel, like, a certain way about something, you know, you you get a little bit of confidence from from one thing, really hone in on that and and focus on that, and and it's a domino effect.

Everything else will start to fall into place.

So, like, for something that makes you feel good, something that is a positive say in your game, and make sure that your mum sticks with that as opposed to focusing on other

things? Exactly.

Okay. Who's your guy growing up?

I liked watching Carey. Obviously, it it's funny now that I'm in Montreal, but my my all time favorite was Pekka Rinne. I just liked his his athleticism, and he was a bigger guy. I just loved watching. You know?

He was he wasn't exactly like best, so just seeing a little difference out there was you know, that was the best part.

Okay. So Pecs had that great glove, and you're right. He was a very active goalie for a big goalie. Did was there a time when you were younger? Were you watching specifics of trying to imitate?

And and as he got older, he evolved. Did you see some of those changes in his game as a fan of his?

I don't think I noticed that that much. Weren't looking at it in that light. Exactly. Yeah. I think I just liked his his athleticism for how good of a a guy he was.

It was crazy.

Yeah. Just not not many people, if any, could do what he did. So I think I've always kind of been a little bit taller growing up, so I definitely tried to implement things from from his game into mine. But in in The US, more specifically, the the goalies there, they don't try to make you one one type. So they try to pull from different goalies, and I think I did that growing up as well.

So I try I liked Carey's calmness. I liked Pekka's athleticism, but Brodeur's explosiveness. So just little things from from everyone.

Those are three pretty good guys to try and pull stuff out of. Exactly. It's funny you mentioned USA Hockey. I just did a couple pieces, and we just actually had Steve Thompson on from USA Hockey. And how much do you pay attention to the fact that, like, the leaderboard in the NHL right now is just littered with American goaltenders right now.

And it's funny because as they're trying to evolve their different programs, it's interesting to hear you say they don't try and make everyone play the same way. You think that's a strength why we're seeing? Because not everybody is being asked a cookie cutter as a goalie?

I think so. But to go back to your question about looking at the leaderboard, yeah, it's it's awesome to see just being able to grow up with with those guys playing against them or or with them. And then also in college playing with them against them. Just seeing, you know, the success that they've had, it it's it's awesome.

Okay. So, obviously, you grew up in an NHL family. Was there any hesitation to let you be a goalie? Because I've definitely heard that from goalie ex goalies not wanting their kids to follow their footsteps.

Oh, yeah. It took a lot of persistence on my part, but finally, it was more so my dad that wouldn't want me to be a goalie, and he finally let me one time and fell in love with it right away. So never looked back.

Can I ask why? Like, usually, there's different reasons. Like, some guys are sticky or some guys just wanna be on the ice all the time. What for you? What what made Cayden Primeau love goaltending?

I think it was a mixture of being lazy and not not liking

Didn't wanna say

Yeah. Being a being a skater, but it's definitely not a lazy position. So a little bit of false advertising.

Yeah. I was gonna say you're not busy, but you're still, like, working harder than anyone else. As you evolved, as you got into the different programs in USA hockey and stuff, like, are there different guys along the way that have really had an influence on sort of as you took those steps from, you know, trying to maybe play like Pekka or have Carey's calmness to adding some of the technical elements without losing who you were?

Yeah. And we used to have the Stray low goaltending camp, and that was huge. Just being around the staff as well and the and the players. There's so many great goalies over there.

Were you in the years when they sort of tried to bring mentorships in and had, like, NHL guys on the ice? Some can you remind me some of the names that might have been there?

Jimmy Howard was was the one that stick that sticks out. I don't think Bishop was there, or he might have been there but didn't go on the ice. Like,

Charlie Lindgren, was that one of those?

Was there. Yeah. There's Demko was there. Ottinger.

Do you guys pay attention to how each, like, how each like, do you like like you said, you see the leaderboard. Do you guy do you keep in touch with any you guys that you came up through through USA Hockey and compare some of these notes, some of the evolution of your games and the game itself?

No. I just like to watch from afar Okay. And just, you know, see how yeah. Exactly. Like you said, see how they're they're evolving and just seeing their success.

Do you think has changed the most in the game? Like, as as a goalie, we see evolution of the position, but the game and the way they're attacking you guys has changed. What do you think is the biggest challenge? I've had a lot of guys this year tell me goaltending's never been harder.

Yeah. It's I think it's faster, and I don't wanna say it's just the sticks because the players are talented as well. But I think the the shots are are harder and and faster than ever before. Everyone is is more skilled and talented than ever before, and so the game is is a lot faster, a lot more skilled. So you're seeing a lot more plays.

And so, yeah, it's it's definitely a little bit harder.

Well, you a lot more East West is what we're seeing, at least analytically, when I look at the numbers. So I found it interesting that you said, you know, as you've gotten stronger, you're you're able to take a little more ice because a lot of guys are going the other way because there's so much East West, they wanna shorten the path. How have you found that balance between knowing, you know, like, what where you are comfortable in the crease as a sort of foundation?

Yeah. I think I I don't come out too too far.

Yeah. It's not like it's it's not like the it's

not the eighties. Yeah. Exactly. I didn't wanna I don't want it to come across like I, you know, start started coming out extremely far, but I tend to play a little more reserved to begin with. Right.

But when I feel that confidence, when I feel that trust

Is it the difference between half ice and at the edge of your crease?

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not like the hash marks of the old days.

No. No. No. But certain plays as well depending on on, know, if there's threats back on the backside or whatnot, that that can change where your positioning is as well. Of course.

In terms of inside out flow, like, have you evolved that or changed that over the years? Like, say off a rush. Are you still taking a little ice and flowing, or are you a guy who likes to let it come to you?

I think I like to let it come to me. K. Then that that goes back to, you know, the threats on the backside or what's what's happening. Think being able to read the play and and understand what's, yeah, what's what's happening, what's gonna happen next is is huge for for that.

Now at this level, Mitch Korn would call it patterns. You're connecting the dots, all the different patterns of the game. That's reading the game. Is there a way to get better at it without just or is it just pure experience? You gotta be in it, or are there other ways you can sort of learn to anticipate better without necessarily playing every every night?

Yeah. Is it challenging? Yeah. I'm not sure.

Do you find yourself more comfortable the more you play?

I find that's my biggest asset and attribute is being able to read the play. That's that's probably my my biggest strength. Always been there kind of thing? Exactly. So I think you can definitely definitely work on it.

But, yeah, I'm not sure.

Well, I mean, so if it came it's funny. You probably watched a lot of hockey growing up. Mhmm. And it one of the things we hear from goalie coaches now is a lot of kids don't actually watch the game, and so they don't see those patterns and process. Do you think, you know, growing up in a hockey family, having watched it, maybe that's where some of the instinctual nature come come from?

It could definitely be a possibility. Yeah. I was always watching watching games. So definitely.

Did you try and watch through a goaltender's lens? Like, I remember Demko. Thatcher told me he used to watch games when he was younger and then even into college and have a notepad watch making notes of how goalies were handling situations. Were you maybe not to that extreme, but were you trying to watch it from a goalie's lens?

Not from a goalie's perspective, but I always watch the goalies specifically. Okay. Just because I was I love the position, like, love watching. Like like I said earlier, Carey's calmness, Price's athleticism, and just being able to see those kinds of things, but I wouldn't necessarily say I watch from a goalie perspective.

Okay. So as we're sitting here and I'm looking at the Montreal Canadiens logo and you're talking about Carey Price, some people might perceive that as pressure to be in an organization with and Price and all that, you know, and and Ken Dry. I'm gonna literally have a Ken Dryden tattoo on my arm for crying out loud. Right? Like, do you embrace that?

How do you how do you

manage that sort of, you know, being in those hallways and see those names up in some of those spots?

Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, the first couple years I was in Montreal, Carey was around all the time. He was he was on a part of the team, and I grew up watching him. I mean, I grew up in a hockey family where seeing people like that was, you know, kind of the norm.

Right.

But but seeing Carey, who I looked up to, was and and being his teammate was a surreal experience. But, yeah, it's it's it's been great. I mean, the everyone talks about how how difficult it is to play in Montreal, but it just shows how passionate the the fans are. They care so much. So it's a blessing and a curse, but, yeah, they've they're great.

I hope you guys helped you look at the blessing. Exactly. Okay. Last one. Anything you learned from Carrie?

Over there, like, in those interactions, were there things you were able to take away from him? We used to get to spend a day on the ice with him in the summers, and it was always just like I felt like I was watching a human how to goalie DVD.

Yeah. It's the things that he was doing on the ice were crazy, but just seeing how he took care of himself off the ice

It's good luck.

Yeah. Especially as a as a young guy, When I first saw that, I wanted you know, the goal is to have a long career until you pick up on stuff like that. But not only Kerry, but Jake was great as well. I learned so much from Jake.

Can you give me an example? Jake's such a he thinks the game so well. He's gonna be a if he ever wants, he's gonna be a hell of a coach.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I was always asking Eric stuff, but I was always asking Jake stuff as well. He he like you said, he sees the game and and understands the game.

I honestly, I think a little differently than everyone else. So, yeah, he's he was great.

Anything technical you've changed with Eric without giving away secrets? Like, just, you know, just, little things that because I watch him work, and he seems like when I like, even today, like, you guys are three quarters away into the season, and he's going over details. Seems like a really smart detail oriented coach. Are you constantly sort of learning? Are there any specifics you've taken away this year that have made a big difference?

It's kind of always, you know, had the same theme. Okay. Just using my size. Right. Not not getting too small, not shrinking early, and not making a move before, you know, the the play is presented.

Okay. I was gonna say I watched a couple here in practice where, like, guy basically walking across the middle below the hash marks, loading it up, and you're still holding edges. And I was pretty impressed with that patient.

Yeah. We we do quite a bit of drills like that. So that's just one of the things, like I said, that he's helped me with. And, yeah, it's it's more theme based throughout the year.

Love it. Awesome. Caden, thank you so much for your time. This has been great. Thank you.

You just have a knack for bringing things out of players, and he comes from this history. His uncle played, his dad played in the National Hockey League, and being a goaltender wasn't front and center on on the Primos.

Yeah. I know. I thought that was interesting. Right? We hear from a lot of, you know, ex NHL goalies or current NHL goalies that have kids.

Hey. That's one of the questions we throw at them. Would you would you let your son be a goalie? And quite often, the answer is no. In this case, his dad who was not a goalie didn't think it was a great idea either.

But I gotta tell you, like, really enjoyed talking to Cayden. Really, it's hard not to like this kid. You know, just there's a joy there when he talks about the position and the steps he's taking this year. Good for him. We talked earlier during the Vezina conversation about adjusted save percentages.

His is actually the best of the three goalies that have been in Montreal this season so far. Obviously, small sample, you know, but he's put up some good numbers at times and behind some, you know, some tough nights for a team that's still finding its way and in a rebuild phase. The other part I wanted to sort of follow-up there was, you know, when he talked about Pete, because we ended up talking about it afterwards. And he, you know, he sort of struggled to sort of describe some things, and part of that was because he and we were talking after he said, because it's so simple. And we kinda went back and forth and agreed, like, it kinda reminded me of Carey.

Like, what's the foundation of Carey Price's game? And if and interestingly enough, ingoalmag.com this week, we have crease movement pattern drills with Eric Comrie and the Buffalo Sabres that tie back to Carey's fund foundation, which was moving in the crease. Yeah. We all wanna see fancy crazy drills, but it was all about footwork and movement and skating, and that's what Carey focused on. Simple stuff.

And in a lot of ways, the stuff that Caden has done with Pete, and that's why he struggled. He was trying to think of, like, something crazy or spectacular, but the reality is it's all really simple in terms of the mindset stuff. He just hadn't been focusing on it or focusing on it in the right way. Much like skating drills, if you don't do the work it doesn't matter how simple it is. If you don't do the work, you don't stay good at it.

And that's kinda where he comes out on the mental stuff. Like, he's doing the work on a consistent basis, and it's made a massive difference in his game even if, like I said, during the interview there, he struggles a little bit to sorta and and part of that is maybe hesitation to share too much of the details. You don't wanna give away all your secrets. But just I think a part of it is just this has become part of his daily routine, part of his foundation. And it's just like skating.

If you don't take care of the basics, they won't take care of you when you need them.

I loved embracing the puck coming into your own end. That was really cool. That part of the work that he's done with Pete Fry. That's a lot of people are just, oh, the puck's my hand. You get tense.

And it much different, approach here, Hutch.

Yeah. It is. And it makes me think of, you know, a lot of situations that minor hockey goaltenders go through, the frustration about how their teams play defense in front of them. Well, Pete would tell you to just enjoy that you're getting this great opportunity to make a difference for your team or the frustration that they have in practice when they face two on O drills, three on O drills, embrace that opportunity. You know, we've talked before about how those simple crease movement drills, Woody, apply at the National Hockey League level and they apply at the eight year old level in an equal way.

I think this mindset stuff does too. And it's so refreshing to see a National Hockey League goaltender embracing some of the simple things about mindset training that are so important at every level of the game.

Yeah. And I think the other thing too and and this is one where I think I put him in a bad spot because I didn't really understand it as well. Athlete mindset versus fan mindset.

There's an article at ingoalmag.com if you'd like, Woody.

There you go. I need to ref I need to refresh. Somehow I got it confused with one of the other things. And all that is is, like, that play comes at you into your end as a fan, you're like, oh, no. Here they come.

And as a goalie, you wanna be, alright. Here they come. I'm ready. Yeah. Let's go.

That that's exactly what you guys were just talking about. That's what he meant. And I think it was it wasn't it wasn't Cayden. It was more me as the interviewer not, you know, sort of dotting those i's and crossing those t's and tying those together properly. Because when he when he walked me through it after when we were chatting, it became crystal clear.

From a crowd of crease in Montreal to separating yourself from the pack in Buffalo, a similar journey for Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen.

Another crowded crease, though. Right? Running through a crease. Devon Levi up here now was up there for long stretches of the season. Eric Comrie, good friend of the program, so to speak, here at InGoal Magazine and ingoalmag.com also there.

Yeah. This was I'll be honest with you. So caveat, this was a conversation for an nhl.com piece as opposed to specifically for InGoal Magazine and and the InGoal Radio Podcast. But Uco was so good in his answers that we really wanted to share it. And some some stuff that ties into what Caden's going through too.

You know, the opportunity to play is so important at this level. And interesting, I've got Calgary Flames here right now. Dustin Wolf's going through the same thing right now. They got one of the best goalies in the world in Jacob Markstrom. Well, how do you find time for Dustin Wolf to play?

But if you don't, like Ukko tells us in this interview, there were some changes. Yes. Technically, tactically, he's made some adjustments. But the most important thing for him was the 33 games he got last year because that's what allowed him to figure out what would work and then go to work on getting better at those things so he could make the strides this year. It's tough sometimes for organizations to find those 33 games, and I think the Sabres deserve a lot of credit.

And Ukko recognizes it early in this interview for providing him that opportunity last year, and they're reaping the rewards this year.

Feature Interview 2 - Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen

Have a listen to Ukko-Pekka Luukonen in conversation with Kevin Woodley on InGoal Radio, the podcast, feature interview presented by NHL Sense Arena.

You know, I think a lot of people, when they see a goalie have success, they're like, what's changed and what's new? But typically, it's it's an evolution that takes some time. What would you say is the biggest keys to the success you're having this season?

I I think just overall, I I think, you know, like, for me, sometimes I talk personal, like, or my own game, but I I I really do feel you know, I appreciate the time I've been given from the coaching staff here and the whole organization to kind of take my time and find my footing in the net. And I feel like last year, in an extended amount of games already in the NHL, I'm try to figure out what it is that I need to do to play well and then kind of this year, just, you know, I am still relatively was, you know, I'm now 25, but, you know, still I can work during the summer and I can get better and I kind of found what I needed to do and overall just feel like I move a lot better. My movements and my edge work is a lot more solid, which allows me to play a little bit deeper than that. I'm kind of a little bit more conservative, but I don't need to challenge as much, which I feel like has helped me a lot. So, you know, there I think there's a lot of things that have come into it, you know, just overall, I feel like, I'm a lot more confident than that.

I know Seamus is a big fan of it just takes games. Right? Like, it takes time to sort of get to that. And like you said, you got that last year. But I'm curious about the about the off season work, the strength.

And and also when you say your edges, would I be correct in saying, like, you're playing more often with a bit of a narrower, taller stance? Like, you're not getting locked into low and wide as often as maybe earlier in your career?

Yes. 100%. I think that's something we we we've been working on a couple past summers in Finland. You know, I've been I've been couple of different goalie courses, but overall, the message has been the same to get my chest more up and get the feet a little bit narrower together, which, you know, has helped me a lot, I feel like, and overall that there's a lot that goes into it. You have to be strong from your core and hips and legs, you know, to be able to kinda play a little bit more chest up and get that strength from kinda playing lower from the legs then.

Yeah, overall, I feel like that's one of the bigger things, just kinda keeping the feet more narrow and having the chest more up.

Well, and I guess it's probably goes hand in hand. You you talked about finding yourself in your game, but the game has changed at the NHL level too. Right? Like, it's so east west. If you do get wide, you know, it's so hard to move from a a really low wide stance.

The way the game's so dynamic in front of you, it's just become tougher for goalies to play from, you know, that lower stance. It feels like at least.

Yeah. No. A 100% you're you're correct, and you kinda more and more, you have to be ready for those, you know, lateral plays and be ready for those backdoor and the even the d men and from the blue line, all they look for is sticks in prom nowadays. And I feel like also one of the things when I, you know, people talk about confidence, it's like when you feel like when you come to the league as a young adult, you want to make the save every time really, really bad, which kind of forces sometimes you to like kind of be, you know, in the wider stance and you're always thinking you're thinking about is that, you know, I'm just gonna make the day from this rush and you kinda, you know, don't do any favors yourself with that thinking because then they make the play lateral and you automatically are kinda late because you're too focused on the top carrier every time. I feel like that's one of the things, you know, which comes with confidence as you read the play better and you're you're more confident to kinda see the play and let the situation out

We've got a goalie coach here that always says tension is the enemy of goaltending. And so as soon as you sort of get so focused on one save and locked in, like, you're inherently tense and it delays any movement.

Yeah. No. I I I totally agree. I think overall, just, you know, as I talked about the confidence and, you know, every year, I feel like it's more important how you read the game. Players are getting better.

The game's getting faster every year. So, you know, the just reading and making them run for you is so important.

Talking about playing a little deeper within that stance, but also a little deeper within the crease, do you feel like you get more time to read? Like, do you feel like sitting back the game you know, it's easy to say let the game come to you. It's really hard to do. But when you're playing a little further back in the crease, do you feel like you have a little more time to sort of process and see things and and have the game in front of you,

so to speak?

Yes. I understand. And I I just you know, I feel like every time I've been talking to a couple of goalie coaches and, you know, a guy, just maybe this Seamus, who has been the developing goalie coach in in in Buffalo for my whole time. I've been here since I got drafted, and I talked to him a couple of days ago and he asked me what's the, you know, I find the biggest thing is and the biggest thing I, you know, felt has made the difference. I feel like this what goes into it is kinda keeping the play in front of you.

You you don't let pucks get behind you or players get behind you because that's where the trouble is when the game gets to behind you and you don't know what's going on there. So, you know, the more deeper you play, the more the place in front of you and you kinda, you know, you allow yourself the best chance to make the leads when you see the whole full ice and you know there's nobody behind you. There's, you know, in this level, if the game gets behind you, you're kinda not in a good spot.

No. No. It's so quick and they're so skilled. These changes, all the things you're telling me, are these things that you were getting comfortable with, Uco, last season? Like, mentioned that getting the chance to play last year has really helped this year.

Were these all changes you made last year or have some of them been this year?

I think it's been just over time. Okay. And I think that's why always there's talk about, you know, why goalies need that little bit of extra time. Yeah. You know, you figure stuff out, but in, you know, as a player you have four lines and you have your line mates and everything and you can kinda, you know, have those little bit of an off night and all that, but as a goalie, you know, everybody knows it.

If you make a mistake, will usually be, you know, it'll be shown on the scoreboard. So, it's kinda, you know, just over time you kinda realize what you need to do. And once you get to, like, kinda stretch couple good games together, it's easier to kinda realize that, okay. This is what I need to do, play well, and kinda, you know, be confident with your game once, know, find those things and, you know, you realize what's working for you.

The reads, you talked about the reads. Have you has video helped you with that as well? Like, some guys love it. Some guys wanna because it's one of the questions we hear this all the time, Uco. You know, like, quote, unquote, goalie school goalie amongst the young kids, not you, but I mean young kids.

And it's like, how do you teach them to read the game to process the game? Is it just time or do you do a lot of studying on video and things like that to sort of help you see? It's probably a phrase Seamus would use too, the patterns of the game that unfold in front of you.

Yeah. You know, of course, I I I do a lot of video. We we go over every game, and I've been doing that pretty much. You know, every year I've been here. And, you know, I have one goalie coach in Finland.

I do love video, but I think he had a good saying about it is that he wasn't too big on the video. He still did it, but he said that, as a goalie, when there's a goal which goes in, you instantly kinda should know what you did wrong and be able to fix that, you know. I feel like that's one of the, you know, kinda parts of beating the game is that you have to be available to, you know, kinda notice your mistakes once they happen in the game and be able to kinda fix them rather than just kinda let the, you know, flow of the game take you and you keep repeating the same mistakes. Right. But I feel like video is a huge thing.

With Belse, our goalie coach here. Something we worked on is like which I feel like as a if you're not a goalie, you don't realize the importance of it. But just kinda realizing how big of a difference it made on my games is where I'm standing when a play is developing on the central or neutral zone or in their head rather than, you know, getting too far outside your pain and taking a rush, just, you know, keeping your calm and, you know, waiting in your net and making a re hauling tires and everything. And then when you need to do it, just taking a step out and then finding calm out rather than being already too far out and kinda, you know, making a, you know, rush situation harder for yourself than it needs to be. So I feel like there's a lot of positive things you can learn from video.

And the biggest thing for me is just kinda find those patterns, good ones or bad ones, which have been working or haven't been working on fixing them.

I love it. I love it.

Hey, listen, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I feel like I could ask you a bunch more, but I want to be respectful of your time. I know it's a travel day. I did notice it's interesting. You're playing with a little less backwards flow off the rush was something else I noticed off tape, that that would sort of match what you're you talked about with Mike there.

Am I am I correct in that? Just one last one.

Yeah. No. I understand. That's something we kinda been working on.

Chest up. That's a reminder. Six five. Like, there's a limit to how much you can really have the chest up or before your garden, the glass for the net, like the the mesh behind, not the the actual goal. But I love his legs.

Like, his his his legs just they they just amaze me.

Well, I just love to be six foot five, frankly. True. But, you it's interesting to hear him sort of figure out some of those biomechanics. And think about it, folks. Like, you know, chest up, if you're not like, you don't wanna overdo it.

It's like everything. But if you cut at the waist and bend your chest forward and lean forward sort of from the hips and and sort of have that you lose that logo, so to speak. If I'm looking at you, I can't see your logo because your chest is so sunk. Well, your hands innately wanna come back as a counterbalance. And so it's really hard to sort of keep your hands active and in front of you if you let that chest fall too far forward in your stance.

And so, listen, this is the thing we don't talk about. Being six foot five has its challenges. Right? Like, we all want narrow we hear a lot about narrower stances, and Uco talks about narrowing his stance, something he's had to work really hard on to develop the strength in his legs and his core to manage that. But narrow stance at six foot five, man, it can feel like you are a long way from the ice when you're doing that.

So it's you know, these are part of the evolution both of Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, of the position and our understanding of the biomechanics of it, but just of the mindset. Like, you know, it's tough for a big goalie to feel like they're that far from the ice. The tendency is to widen out, and that's, again, something he's trying to avoid. So he's done a really you could tell, a, that he's a thinker.

Oh,

yeah. Eric Comrie, I had a good chat with him about UPL for the story, but not sort of not not for the podcast. Man, he's a fan. He said he could see the differences as soon as he stepped on the ice in training camp, and he thought, holy wow. This guy's gonna have a heck of a season.

And in Eric Comrie fashion, I think he did actually say holy wow. And and he threw a 'dang' he threw a 'dang' in there as well. He's a big fan of Luukkonen as a person and how passionate he is about the game, how hard he works, but also as a goalie as well. So, again, you know, seven years after he was drafted, there are a lot of people that are probably going like, hey. Is it was times I wondered, but it just shows you you need opportunities to establish yourself at the highest level.

And good on Ukko-Pekka, Luukkonen for recognizing the changes he need to make, embracing them, and good on the Sabres for getting them the opportunity to do so. And like I said, everybody's reaping the rewards this year.

Hutch, he also seized an opportunity too because, like, everybody was talking about Devin Levi coming into the year.

Yeah, he did. I mean, you can't listen to the noise around you and worry about what's happening around you. So he certainly did. But, as Woody said, it's been a seven year journey. So it sort of sounds like the old, he's a seven year overnight success, isn't he?

You know what I mean? So people sometimes forget that and I think that's the most crucial one. And I think some, you know, you know me, I always have to chime in here for the minor hockey kids, but just remember it's a long journey and if you're not accomplishing all the things that you think others around you are accomplishing at a young age, that's okay because maybe your journey is just a little bit different, but you might end up in the same place or even higher than those kids around you. So just keep working.

Hey. Speaking of Devin Levi, watched watched him in Vancouver second half, a back to back. They didn't get the win, but man, he put on a show. He was really good that night. And so pretty tough to do.

Like, he's in the American League, hadn't played in the NHL since January 24, gets called up, plays in the AHL on Friday, gets called up Saturday, travels West, watches from the press boxes. UPL beats Seattle on Monday night. Here you go. First game in a couple months in the in the national. It's the Vancouver Canucks, second end of back to back.

And by the way, our playoff lives are on the line here. Didn't get the win, but it wasn't on Devin Levi. He played really well.

Is the perfect height for a goalie, six three and a half? That's my number.

Where's the half?

Well, because I I wanted to go six four, but I'm not willing to to stretch that far because there's nine goalies that are six four.

Daren, it's it's closer three and a half. No. It's a lot closer to six three and a quarter, Daren. Come on. Let's be serious.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you guys. I've had I've had goalie coaches. I've had this conversation around the National Hockey League. A lot of them feel it's six two to six three.

Six two to six three. Yeah. So six two and half maybe.

Yeah. Maybe six two

and a half.

If six three is the ideal, the the answer I think this was Ian Clark, I think he said this on our podcast in the past. If you're if six three is the ideal, and he's not saying it is, but if that's your ideal, whether it's six two or six three

Yeah.

Then if you're two inches shorter than that or two inches taller than that, you have to overcome your size just in different ways. We talked about big guys having to get to the ice, the holes they open moving. Small guys, obviously, worry about getting routed upstairs, but usually quicker, better on their feet, set earlier, more often. Think of a Juuse Saros. Think of a Dustin Wolf.

Either way, you have to overcome your size in either direction. The difference is the ones on the taller end of the spectrum get every opportunity to do so, and the smaller guys often don't get any.

I'd rather be the small guy. Fast, dynamic. Like, if I had to choose.

I'm the small Small guy. I'm the small guy, and I'm neither fast nor dynamic. So I guess I just kinda suck. That's how all roads buried

a beer. Want tear leak. Yeah. I can't do it either. What's the perfect hand size?

That's what we gotta find out for Hutch.

Hey. You know what? That's funny that you say that though. In the NFL combine, the number one predictor of success as a quarterback in the National Hockey League is hand size. Yeah.

National National Football League. Excuse me.

Yeah. No. Just can't be a

quarterback. So you're saying you couldn't be a quarterback either? Oh god. No.

And rusher. That's what he is. That was his center. Or a safety because you're our safety. You tie this all together.

Outro

No. You're sweet. I I gotta fly. Hutch, you gotta do some editing and Woody's gotta get home of Rodgers Arena. So we gotta wrap this up.

Thanks to you guys. This has been fun, like tons in this episode. Loaded. Loaded. I like you and Woody.

Woody Woody drops in something, and Hutch just gives us this painful face. That face? That's a painful face.

Yeah. That's painful.

It's borderline mad face like shut up face. Thanks for listening.

For mad.

We'll talk to you guys next week on InGoal Radio, the podcast.