Podcast Segment for Goalie Parents – Episode 271

Hutch, you have some company in this week's parent segment.

I do. I have had the question come in many times over the last few weeks. Parents wondering how they can control their own stress, their own anxiety in the rink. It is difficult to be a goalie parent. It has to be amongst the most difficult, sport parenting positions in the world, and people wanna know how they can make the experience better for themselves.

I started to put together answers. I have a lot of things that I do share with other parents. But then I thought to myself, what I'm starting to tell parents here is exactly what I would tell an athlete. Why don't I actually bring in a pro? Because it it felt like I was getting, maybe a little bit out of my lane with some of the things that I wanted to suggest, and I should thought, let's bring in a pro.

And, fairly recently, we have, gotten to know today's guest, Luciano Summerville. He is a registered clinical counselor. He consults with teams and athletes, and it turns out, I didn't know till our interview, with parents as well. And I met him actually because his brother plays in the East Coast Hockey League, his brother Nico, and has been shooting on my son in the summers for the last two or three years, and they've become good buddies. And I found out that his brother was was, a sports psychologist.

And I thought, wow, this is a guy I need to get to know. And, he actually was quite a hockey player in his own right. So we struck up a conversation, and this happened to be something I thought would be interesting to bring him on so that he could help answer that question. What do we do about our own stress as goalie parents? How do we deal with our own anxiety heading into the rink?

I think it's a great connection between the goaltender in your family and the parent and a lot of what is happening on the ice, you can take advantage of. There's a huge connection here. Fascinating conversation with Luciano Summerville on the Stop It Goaltending U, the app, parent segment, and InGoal Radio, the podcast.

This week's parent segment, we wanted to do just a little bit differently. And, it's a common question that's come into us quite a bit, which is how do we control our own personal anxiety as parents, in games? It's pretty tough being a goalie parent as we all know. And we want the best for our kids, we want them to have a great experience and and we take a lot of that stress on board. So how can we deal with it?

I've got a lot of my own answers because I've had a little bit of experience myself. But as I was putting that answer together for someone, I thought, wow, this sounds exactly like what I might say to a goaltender, as well. So let's bring in a sports psychologist. And, my guest today, Luciano Summerville, Luuk as the players call him, played Canadian college hockey, played a little bit of pro over in Europe. He has a master's in counseling and is a registered clinical counselor.

And he helps with performance for athletes and teams and other areas of mental health as well. So Luuk, was not a goaltender but has been spotted at some local high level goalie skates as a shooter and can still rip it. So Luuk, welcome and thank you for joining us today.

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.

Yeah. It's great to have you. So, Luuk, you're used to working with athletes feeling stress and the anxiety of performance. What do you say to a goalie parent who's experiencing something similar?

Yeah. It's a That's a really good question and I think probably not unlike lot of the stuff that you've, I'm sure, already touched on in the past or that you might say to someone who is actually a goalie. I would definitely agree with those things. I think a lot of the things that I talk to players and goalies about in regards to, like, performance anxiety, stress, nervousness, like, all that kind of stuff, all the physiological, impacts of, like, going into big performances that come up, I think, are also like, when we talk about those things and the tools that we come up with and the tools that we use to kind of, like, cope with that stress or anxiety, I think a lot of those tools can also be used for parents who are in the stands. And as I'm sure you've touched on before, I think for parents, it's maybe more so difficult because they're in the stands and they really have no control of the outcome or of And what's going on on the so it's really about like utilizing some of those tools and strategies and stuff like that.

But it's also about having that mindset of like, okay, like I need to come to a place where I'm accepting of like what the outcome is going be because that's out of my control and I kind of have to just, like, relinquish that need to control, like, what's going on on the ice and just kind of, like, trust that my son or daughter, whoever's playing, is going to perform and perform at the best of their ability and sometimes that doesn't happen to and that's okay. And just being able to provide a space to be able to support them afterwards in that.

But it's also about having that mindset of like, okay, like I need to come to a place where I'm accepting of like what the outcome is going be because that's out of my control and I kind of have to just, like, relinquish that need to control, like, what's going on on the ice and just kind of, like, trust that my son or daughter, whoever's playing, is going to perform and perform at the best of their ability and sometimes that doesn't happen to and that's okay. And just being able to provide a space to be able to support them afterwards in that.

Can we just take one step backwards because you talked about those physiological responses to stress and anxiety and think it's probably worth normalizing that for everybody to say that it is okay that we're feeling that way. So what are those common responses to anxiety? How does our body tend to react?

I think everyone reacts to anxiety and stress differently. I mean, are some of the more common common, you know, impacts that we might have where, you know, we might notice that we start sweating more, heart rate increases and races, our blood pressure goes up, like all these kinds of things that we might feel physiologically. And there's definitely different techniques that are scientifically proven to kind of like help mitigate some of those, some of those effects that we feel physiologically. For example, if you were experiencing an increase in heart rate, you might want to try just focusing on your breathing and really trying to calm that heart rate down. And I know Andrew Huberman has a technique called the physiological sigh that I've come to, adopt myself, but also that I also, try to teach and, and, help others try to incorporate into some of their practices because it's scientifically proven as one of the fastest and most effective ways of like reducing our physiological response to stress and anxiety.

So

That's so cool to hear because I literally was doing that two days ago. It was not at a hockey game, but I was feeling some serious stress. And and I I've done the deep breathing as a goalie parent before and it kind of works. And then I noticed this one online and I tried it and it it made a difference. Can you tell us a little bit more about how somebody would do it?

Yeah. Absolutely. And and, again, this is not my, like, technique or anything like that. It's something I got from Andrew Huberman, but it is something that I, like I said, I like to use with players and goalies and and athletes and and also non athletes as well. But particularly athletes find it helpful because it's quick, it's simple, and it's kind of like yeah, it's just really effective and and really, like, concise.

So basically, what you want to do is you want to take an inhale, like a regular inhale. But then at the top of that, you're also going to take another extra inhale. So sometimes instead of calling it physiological sigh for especially the younger kids, I like to call it like double breathing because it makes So sense to they take two breaths in and then one long exhale. And what we're doing is, especially like when we're, we're physiologically aroused in like a stress or anxiety response, our breathing tend to get, tends to actually get shorter, which means we're in taking less oxygen into our lungs and we're obviously not maximizing our lung capacity. So what we're doing is we're taking that normal breath in, but then we're taking another extra breath in and really getting down to the bottom of our lungs and maximizing that lung capacity and potential for oxygen.

That first one kind of feels like it's completely full. Right? And then you're overfilling a little bit?

Exactly. Yeah. So it's kind of like really max, like I said, maximizing the potential for oxygen intake in that initial, you know, inhale. And then the long slow exhale is really where we're like calming our nerves and calming our stress response and calming our heart rate and all that kind of stuff.

I find that extra breath, that tension actually creates some sort of physical release as well as it comes out.

Definitely. Yeah. Even after like one or two, even if you're just sitting there and you're not, your heart rate isn't really high, you just do a couple of those and you feel even more relaxed especially in those heightened states where the heart rate's going up, their physiological response is high, you do a couple of those and you are, you'll notice pretty much right away instantly it start to come down.

Highly recommended. Like I said, I've tried it. It's something you can do sort of quietly in your corner in the rink. Nobody knows you're doing it. I think the first time I saw Huberman talk about it, there was actually this huge release of the side that I don't think you need to do to get some benefit of this.

You can be sort of stealth.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's very subtle, which is which is a good thing too.

Yeah, definitely. So that's one one thing we can try. Is there anything sort of before the game as we head into it that we need to think about?

I think a lot the same things an athlete would take into a game in terms of their mindset and how they prepare is is an important part of, like, being a parent too. And and mind you, all of this stuff is is my experience based on my education and training and also my work with parents who are parents of athletes. Myself, I'm not a parent, so I don't have the firsthand experience. Hopefully someday soon, but then I'll tested to practice what I preach. But for going into a game, like I said, I think it would be not unlike what an athlete would go into a game focused on.

Like you want to focus on your process, you want to focus on some of the things that are in your control. So as a parent going into a game watching your kid, what's in your control? Well, you can control your body language, You can control the stress response if you work on that and work on the breathing and stuff like that. You can control your response verbally or emotionally or whatever that might be. And so focusing on the things that you can control as opposed to the things that you can't control such as results, such as, the way that your child is actually performing on the ice.

I'm sure there could be other things that are maybe out of your control, but that would be my suggestion going into the game is really, like, really being intentional and focusing on, okay, like, what is my what is in my control? What am I what am I, like, what are my intentions going into this? And really, like, being set on that kind of like mindset of like, okay, this is my This is in my control.

I know when we talk to to goaltenders, we'll talk about having a plan sometimes or at least I do. Getting scored on, sometimes things happen that are out of your control there. And more than just don't worry about what you can't control, what will your response be when something out of your control happens? To me, that's a bit of the process. And so for goalie parents, I talk about how are you going to react when the puck goes in?

Because we all would love to see a shutout, but we're probably not going to tonight. What's your personal response going to be other than just don't stress? Like, does that make any sense to have a plan for that?

Yeah. I think going back to the exact same thing I said before with, like, I think a lot of the things that I talk about with athletes would also apply to parents here.

Yeah.

I think it's easy to say some of the cliches like, oh, like, don't worry about it. Like, just be positive. Like, move forward, blah, blah, blah. Like, and we all would love to be for those cliches to be effective, but they're not that effective. So one thing that I like to talk about with a lot of athletes and it works particularly well, particularly well with goalies, especially after mistakes or after goals are scored is having some sort of reset routine.

So, that's like really checking in with themself, thinking about what happened, accepting it, letting it go, and then using some sort of breathing strategy and then, like, okay, like, what's my I need to refocus. Like, what's my intention moving forward? So I use the analogy of, like, shutting off the car, just letting it sit for a second, just being present in the moment, and then restarting the car and, like, refocusing.

So as a parent, is that sort of as I as I go to the game, I'm saying to myself, well, I'm not gonna overreact when that puck goes in if it does tonight. And, and I'll I'll take a moment, I'll take three seconds, five seconds and say nothing, do nothing and just tell myself it's okay. And then maybe try some of that breathing. Some sort of a plan like that, I assume it would be fairly personal, but does that make some sense?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think something else too is, I've been talking to a lot of athletes lately about self compassion. And there's actually three different components to self compassion. There's self kindness, there's common humanity and there's mindfulness. Self kindness is being kind of like accepting and understanding of that failures and mistakes are going to happen and there's going to be setbacks and adversity.

Rather than being judgmental and harsh towards oneself or another person, we want to be kind towards ourselves or towards other people. So as opposed to like self critical, you know, self talk and stuff like that, we want to talk positively to ourselves and to others. The common humanity piece is that, you know, from a goalie's perspective, every single goalie in the entire world, including the best goalies in the world, are going to get scored on at some point. And that's just the reality of it. And so putting that into perspective of, like, zooming out of, like, how big a goal one goal feels and then zooming out being like, hey, like, even the best boys in the world get scored on, it's okay, it's not the end of the world, we're going to get through this and we're also going to learn and grow from this.

So, like, having that piece of common humanity is an important part of that. And then the third part is the mindfulness part of like being okay, like in tune as a parent. So like, what's going on for me right now? What am I feeling? And, you know, normalizing and validating that that's okay to feel that and we also control our response to that too.

So that's a big piece that I like to talk to a lot of athletes about and I think it's definitely applicable here.

And I think as a goalie parent, you talked about being kind to yourself but also being kind to others. And, and and there is that reaction in the moment to either be upset with our child. How could you do that? That's a terrible goal. Or or maybe we're upset with others, you know, to the defenseman because it went off his shin pad or the forward who went straight legged and didn't back check.

We've got to let those things go too.

Totally. Yeah. And if we hold on to those, then we're holding on to unnecessary stress. And I also realize that's a lot easier said than done to let go of But we all need to find our own process of like, okay, what's our what's our outlet? How do we manage and cope with stress and how do we release it?

Oh, we all have maybe you're lucky enough to have training camp in the preseason to sort of get into your system. And and like you said, it's easier said than done. Totally. Yeah. Any tips in that when when it feels for parents like there's something really big at stake?

Trying out for example, you're watching your kid, you just really hope they make their first rep team ever or, you know, they're in a tough battle to play on that team that they've always dreamt of playing on. I think the stakes are a little bit higher. Does does that change the game for parents?

We look to our parents to model behavior and to model regulation. So we really are co regulators of our parents. So if we see our parents at very high stress levels and high anxiety and how they show their emotions and express their emotions, we're probably going to take that on as our own kind of way of doing things in our own way of expressing emotions and experiencing emotions.

I mean, I definitely think that it's increased stress for parents, but I would imagine and and and maybe speaking from more of my own personal experience as being an athlete and having parents that have responses as well is like, as kids, especially when we're growing up, we look to our parents to model behavior and to model regulation. So we really are co regulators of our parents. So if we see our parents at very high stress levels and high anxiety and how they show their emotions and express their emotions, we're probably going to take that on as our own kind of way of doing things in our own way of expressing emotions and experiencing emotions. So I think as we grow older, we learn to kind of like develop our own ways, but also it doesn't differ all that much from how we, you know, learn to do it growing up. So, going into something like a trial or some sort of high pressure situation, if a parent feeling more stressed, then it might rub off on the kid, especially if they're a little bit younger, that they're going to feel more stressed.

And I think from my experience in working with parents, it's often that they, when they also ex- or witness their children experience stress, they want to do anything they can to try and, like, take it away or get rid of it or just kind of, like, push it to the side and be like, you know what, it's fine, like, you're gonna get through it, like, it's okay, like, and because from a parent perspective, I'm assuming that you wouldn't want to see your kid go through anything that's, like, difficult or a struggle, right? So it's, like, hard to watch them do that so you want to take that away and make it better for them But that's also how we learn to get through those moments is by navigating it ourselves. If we're always taken out of those situations, then we're never going to learn how to manage and cope with stress that comes up in those situations. So something that I often talk to parents of athletes about is like something that was taught to me in my master's program, which is a very simple yet profound technique and it- well, not really technique, just like piece of advice and it's get curious, not furious.

And you can change out furious for anything else, it's just curious and furious rhyme obviously. Instead of showing your emotion and, you know, kind of like projecting that emotion onto your kid of the stress and anxiety and whatever you might be feeling, maybe ask them how they're feeling about it and ask them, like, what they're focused on and ask them questions and get curious about their experience of it because I think it's just automatically assumed that parents and kids will have the same or feel the same experience and that's not always the case too. Asking questions and giving them a little bit more autonomy about like how they might be feeling might go a long way.

That's fantastic. There there were two pieces to that that I heard there and, and really resonated with me. One of which has me thinking I need to change my my game here a little bit as well. The first was that as parents, we can project our feelings onto our children and they can start to reflect how we're feeling. And I've I've mentioned that on the show before, how, I think it's important, you know, if there's a playoff game the night before, you don't create more anxiety by telling them, let's get to bed early.

Tomorrow's a big day or let's hey, how are you feeling about tomorrow? It's a huge game. I think we can create anxiety there. But then the piece that maybe I've been missing that that I love that you added there was that we can't just take all the stress away from the kids or we can't just push it to the side and pretend it's not there. Those two things are difficult to balance though, I would assume.

If you want your kid to be able to handle certain situations and adversity and stress and failure and mistakes, which everyone does, because that's how we learn and we grow and that's how we persevere and eventually become successful, then we can't just be taken out of those situations. We have to go through it, not around it or over it or under it or what are just completely avoided at all.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's not something that's easy to kind of like, again, relinquish that kind of control. But if we as parents, if you want your kid to be able to handle certain situations and adversity and stress and failure and mistakes, which everyone does, because that's how we learn and we grow and that's how we persevere and eventually become successful, then we can't just be taken out of those situations. We have to go through it, not around it or over it or under it or what are just completely avoided at all.

So I think it's important for kids to be and for adolescents and even adults to go through adversity and to like be able to navigate their own way through that adversity as well.

That's fabulous. Luuk, I have taken way more of your time than I promised to, right at the beginning, but I appreciate you sharing all of that with us. I feel like we could do a deep dive on this and spend an hour, an hour and a half on a longer show. You got fantastic advice. And, and also wonderful for me to hear that you work with parents as well.

I've I've known you've worked with athletes for a while and I think it's important. One last little thing, I don't know, comment from me or I'd love to hear what you think on this is I love that mental health and dealing with mental health is becoming more normalized today in society. And I have definitely spoken to some parents, in the past who've sounded like things are beyond the normal anxiety issue, when dealing with their kids. And at least for me personally, I think letting them know that if these techniques aren't working with you, talking to a mental health professional wherever is okay because we want this to be a great experience for us personally and more importantly for our kids.

Yeah, I think it's it's really, I think the in terms of like the mental health aspect, the stigma has really come down a lot, which is really, really cool to see, especially in the field of sports that for so long had such a strong stigma against talking about things and getting help and that sort of thing. So I'm really, really glad and appreciative that of all the work that everyone's done to kind of like make it more normal and make it more, you know, more mainstream and more acceptable for athletes and non athletes to be able to seek help because I think we all need help at some point and- and it's okay to need help by someone else too. Like, we can't do it alone and- and we need to be able to rely on others and- and support others as well. So that's why I do what I do and why I'm so passionate about what I do and, yeah.

Fabulous. Thanks for taking the time again and, thank you for the important work that you're doing.

Yeah. Thank you very much for having me on. It was a pleasure.

Put you on the spot. What what was your favorite part of that? And I'll start by just saying the the breathing. The the parent doing the breathing during a stressful situation or an intense situation is a great tool to use when you're up in the stance.

Absolutely is. It's something that I've been doing, for years and, something that I had just learned about. So I I I do it and it helps and it works. My favorite part of that was that I had actually sent him an email beforehand and said, hey, just so you know, we'll do anything you wanna do, but these are the things that are running through my head on the topic. And I mentioned that Andrew Huberman technique, the physiological sigh.

I think some some of these guys on the Internet are are much like goalie coaches who need to give fancy terms to things that we all do just to make them sound cooler. I love that Luuk called it double breathing just to make it clearer. What was cool for me was that he'd been doing the exact same thing, with his clients. So so I'd been trying the breathing myself. I discovered Huberman's technique.

I found it actually worked. And then Luciano himself brings it up in the interview. So I I I don't know. Maybe it was a little validating. Nice to know that it works.

And then then frankly, Daren, the most exciting part was when he brought up that he works with parents. It's, it never crossed my mind that a parent would reach out and ask for help, but I think it's a it's a great idea, and I'm glad that that people have chosen to do that with him.

Societal, that's a progress.

Well, it is. And we talked about that in the interview. The whole the whole area around mental health is just the stigma is leaving, and I think that's so important and so good. We all need somebody to talk to from time to time. And and whether that's a goaltender who's struggling or or a parent who's struggling, we have a chance to make things better for all of us.

So why not take advantage?

Woody, serious question. Do you use the double breathing?

I I know of these things I find in the moment that I rarely remembered to do them, but That's

that's the thing with me too. Thank you.

But I have, like, sometimes, like like, talk about checklist. We're talking about Stop It Goaltending U and and and one of the things that they talked about recently. Like, if you are conscious or maybe go into a game and you remind yourself, hey. Like, last last time things got out a little out of control and they and you keep in as you learn these things, you have to sort of just remind yourselves of maybe going into the situation, and then you're more likely to be able to execute them once it once it starts. So, do I do it enough?

No. Am I trying to be more aware of it so I do it more often? Yes. Have I used breathing techniques to slow myself down a little bit in stressful situations outside of hockey? Yes.

I think and that's where the parent thing becomes relevant. And not necessarily as a don't have a kid that plays hockey and find the sport. I do watch volleyball. I do because there's so much it's not as fast paced. It's easy to take a deep breath, and maybe I just do it instinctually.

But, yeah, I I totally can see how it would work, and and it's a good idea to practice it. I just find in the actual games, I I'm usually I'm usually breathing really heavily as soon as the puck drops. Like that as opposed to, you know, the deep sigh.

It's not double breathing. It's infinite breathing

for me. Yeah. Exactly. It's it's it's panting.

But I I I think you you make two important points there. It it is way better to be intentional than than to react. So going into a game, whether you're it's as a goalie parent or as a goalie, having a plan, think is really important. That doesn't have to be a complicated plan. It doesn't have to be 14 different points.

It could be as simple as I am going to not get upset today and I am gonna practice my breathing when things get tense. That's enough. You can make it more complicated. You can deal with situations like what will I do when a goal goes in and all this sort of stuff. But an intentional practice as you go to that game, it actually makes a real difference.

The only thing I actually do as well that we didn't bring up in that is is I do find a little bit of physical movement, reduces stress. We all know exercise helps with stress. I do that myself when I'm I'm feeling things are tough. I'll go for a run. But in a game, obviously, you can't do that.

But I will get up and walk around, and I think that's perfectly fine. You might feel a little weird being that guy pacing up and down. But, if it does help you relax or just to stand up, if there's a standing area in your rink, I find that reduces the stress for me as well.

I get really quiet. Like, I I honestly almost take myself out of the situation, and and that's the way I would handle things during my children's activities and when my daughter was a keeper in soccer. That was the way I handled it. Otherwise, I would get a little too anxious and and not be able to just process it as well. But being proactive, I do television every night during the season.

And think the double breathing, that that tip going into the final two minutes before we go on the air, like, that's that's when I'm most amped up. After the first minute thirty that we're on the air, things calm down. But I have trouble controlling that first ninety seconds because I'm so excited and so ready to go. Doing the double breathing, I think, is that's something I'm going to take to this year and and just try to be a little bit more in control out of the gate and then using it in a reactive sense as well. The the line is taking breath.

Years. Oh, it it's just a process. You get Wow. You get it's it's not nervous. Right.

There's some anxiousness, but it's like it's more excitement that that's there. I I get a rush from being on the air. And sometimes I come out, and I'm just like a fire hose going, and I gotta gotta pull back. And so the double breathing, I I think, is gonna gonna help out massively. The line, take a breath.

Like, take a deep breath. It's it's been there forever. We just

Makes a difference.

It almost became something that was more of a jab or a a shot. Like, take a breath. Take a breath. But it actually does work.

Absolutely does. Well said.