InGoal Radio Episode 266 with Adam Francilia

Intro

Welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports and thehockeyshop.com. This, believe it or not, Woody, is episode 266. I'm David Hutchison. I'm here again with the one and only Kevin Woodley and we're gonna handle things for another week here in beautiful British Columbia. But I think Daren will be back soon.

Very soon. Very soon. Yes.

You won't be stuck listening to me for too much longer. Woody, how's your Sense Arena training going?

Well, I mean, am I stopping pucks? Not that much.

Are you seeing pucks?

I'm seeing pucks. I'm working my hands. It's allowing me to feel like when I get on the ice, I'm not gonna be like a newborn baby deer out there. So I'm not able to get on the ice in the summer and it's helping. So that's, I guess, that's the whole point.

Right?

I guess it is. Were you motivated by last week's guest maybe to get on there a bit more this week?

Here in Devon Levi talk about how he uses it, definitely. It was one of the things that sort of sparked me to get back on it a little bit, get the hands going, get that feel. And I gotta say, get the hands going, get that feel going, and get a little sweat going. I'm not sure how many other people get into that mode where like

probably doesn't.

No. I'm pretty sure Devon doesn't break a sweat on Sense Arena, but, I mean, it's not like I was soaked or anything, but there was a little there was a little damp forehead by the end of some of the some of the sessions. So, you know, it's kinda practice what we preach a little bit. And at the beer league level, we don't often practice, but it has been months since I've been on the ice. So I figured I'd get out there and give her a little go virtually, and it helped, I think.

Attaboy. Good job. Well, look, I think a lot of parents should look at this or a lot of, beer league goalies like you should look at this because for less than the cost of a goalie camp, you get access to a tool that NHL goalies like Devon Levi and Joey Daccord are using now and you get it for all year long. Folks, this is not about a paid promotion for these guys. They're not telling Devon to pretend he uses it.

This comes up organically when we're talking to these guys. They use it, they believe it. And whether it's to get some training in on the road or as part of their warm up or as you've heard us say before, actually in between periods of an NHL game, these guys believe in Sense Arena. So go grab a Meta Quest headset and try Sense Arena today. 15 a day maybe for the rest of the summer, Woody.

It's gonna get people ready for next season and then they can maybe make it part of their routine for the whole season.

I got a trip to Ontario coming up. Does that mean I'm gonna bring the case and be cool? Could I do it on the plane?

Just in case you wanna use it?

Oh, dad joke central.

Sorry. Can't help it. They're coming all the time. You should bring it. Hey, we've been talking a lot about our recent trip to Kelowna.

But today, we're gonna get right to the heart of it and talk with Adam Francilia in our feature interview presented by Sense Arena. He's the guy that brings so many professional goaltenders together to train in the summer there and he's the guy that brought us together.

Yeah. No. A good chance to catch up with Adam in our feature interview presented by Sense Arena. And, you know, it's funny. We do go up there quite a bit.

Net three sixty camp in the past not running this summer, but the athletes are still coming up to work with Adam a couple weeks at a time. Stuart Skinner, a matter of fact, started his off season training today with Adam. I believe that'll be the first time he's on the ice this afternoon since getting to game seven of the Stanley Cup final. Adam's gonna tell us about a couple new clients, some eye popping name included in there in this interview.

Listen carefully.

So we figured, you know, we keep going up there to talk to all the goalies that are working with this guy. We need to talk with this guy again and sort of walk us through what that program looks like, what makes it different. We've had a chance to see it. We wanted to bring it to you. So Adam Francilia, our featured guest this week.

That's a great chat. In our Gear Segment this week with Cam at the Hockey Shop, everybody's seen all those cool designs that the Bauer Digi Print can create. Now we've got one of the most popular designs available, but it's off the shelf at the Hockey Shop. What's going on at the Hockey Shop this week, Woody?

Well, I think we should just before we let Cam tell us all about how you can get a what would appear to be a custom digiprint design just by walking in the store or going to the hockeyshop.com and buying it, like not having to go through the process of designing it. Although you can still do that, obviously, if you want, but also in a second price point, a lower price point model. But before we get to that, we gotta remind people that the rink side rush sales are now up to 40% off at the Hockey Shop and the hockeyshop.com. Bauer, CCM, Brian's, True, Vaughn, Warrior, they've got stuff on sale from all the major brands right now. There's the list is too big for me to squeeze into the podcast here.

So just go to the hockeyshop.com, check it out for yourself, and see what all the sale excitement is about the Rinkside Rush sale. As you're getting ready to get back on the ice, you might as well save some money, maybe get some new gear on your way back to the rink, and maybe enough money save enough money to get yourself a Sense Arena set so you can work on your game before you get back on the ice? And speaking of savings, how about custom gear? That's what the new Bauer Reactor r five graphic is. It's on like I said, you know what?

Gear

I don't wanna screw it up. You know me and all the different categories and names. Let's just let Cam explain it to us. Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. I'm here with Cam and Goalie Utopia, and I'm a little excited because We're coming out with you with something old.

But new. Wow. You're Got him. I can't believe you got away with an age is his ageism? Welcome.

Is ageism. Welcome. To the Reactor 5X5 pro graphic pads. I am sad. As one of the olds, I am sad that you actually got me with an old joke but these are not old.

These are new. Yes. And this is custom graphics at a second price point level thanks to Bauer. Wow. Like, there's a reason I'm excited.

Mhmm. So, we can see what it is. Bauer Reactor graphics. Yes. You know, flex dart.

You got the old knee rolls. Like, you

could all flex dart.

Like, she she looks like an old school pad and she really like, if you look at them when they had them on the wall, it's like, wow. Like, it really pops. We've seen Frederik Andersen. This reminds me of Frederik Andersen's outdoor set. Yes.

One of the first guys to sort of take the digiprint Yeah. And go with the old school graphic on it. Sort of throwing it back to what? Curtis Joseph days?

Cujo days. Yeah. With the blue, the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Nikolai Khabibulin was the reactor guy? Mister Khabibulin had They were back into my era here, Cam, but but this isn't a custom order for pro gear. This is on the shelf, second price point, so It's like Reactor R5 is what it's called, but it's based off Bauer's X5 Pro. Yes. So, we've seen the graphics.

I don't know that we need to go too much into it. Let's remind people what they're getting and maybe touch on the price point.

Okay. So, quickly review the pads because again, this is something that we have talked about.

It's been a while since we've done X5 Pro if you wanna go check out the old review.

Okay, nice feature right off the bat. Let's talk about Stabilo Slide.

Stabilo Flex. Stabilo Flex, so top level knee system in a second price point pad. A little bit of movement on there but rigidity, get that pad to the ice faster.

Exact same materials. Nice hard slide surfaces we've talked about before and why that's important. Better sliding. Exactly.

So Little gap here, little air gap to make sure you can get through.

Exactly. Same Hyperlite two style strapping on the back of the pad.

Adjustable, easy fit. Bungee toe tie. Bungee toe ties. Not for everyone, but easy to remove if you don't like them.

Exactly. Nice flexible pad too as well. So some good overall flex that is going to soften up obviously as you play a little bit more, break in a

little bit more. Really flexible down in the boot especially.

Removable outer knee wing. Again, some of that customization feature that you can And do you want with

strap it down to there, carry price style. Exactly. Lots of options. Gloves, let's go over the glove blocker quickly. No.

Other than like holy like second price point, like presents nice and big, closes easy out of the box in addition to being stylish. Nice deep pocket. Unlike Cam, it's got deep pockets. Okay. I had to get you back for the old joke.

I don't even know if it's a slam. I don't even know what okay. I'm shook. Okay. I'm shook.

I normally rip you pretty good, but like you got me and I'm, I'm. You could say you're. I'm rattled.

You were trying to react

to the situation. That's fine. Let's get back to the Back

to focus. All right. So again, five ninety style break, nice open double tee. Again, nice clean graphic and trims off the overall glove.

Closes easy.

Yeah. Nice. This is these are fresh out of box. Like, we didn't do anything to these. Yeah.

I commented as soon as I put it on, like, again, second price point folks, really high quality stuff. Blocker, Again, we see the graphic.

Lightweight, tight fit as well. I like again the Bauer Palms with what they've done in terms of being able to match a little

bit closer to a player glove fit. Nicely balanced, nice and lightweight, great reactive blocker. Oh, look at you reacting to everything on the fly.

So, you

have any questions? On the ice. No. Have a question. Yeah.

Let's talk about price point because we talk about second price point Yes. All the time, where this compares and just how much you're saving and then a little bit on who it's for because, hey, listen, if I'm playing major junior, I'm probably getting the Bauer top of the line.

Hyperlite 2 or shadow or

Right. Along those lines. Yes. If I'm playing we've actually had major Bantam kids. Yes.

In the second price point. Growng. Lasting more than a a

To stuff like that, that's where this stuff comes in quite handy.

Yes. Beer league. Exactly. You're gonna be okay in this.

So to clarify to you, custom is available on X5 Pro. Not the Reactor graphic, not like digiprint or anything like that, but you can get custom colors in the X5 Pro. Minimal upcharge. It's not too bad. Keeps things kind of grounded, so you have an option to get that mid price point as custom colors, just not in this graphic.

Okay, but we're talking about this graphic.

I don't know. No, but we're reminding. We're reminding

ourselves Now this is let's tell them what this one costs.

So this guy comes in just a little bit more than like a regular stock one. Obviously, that graphic kind of comes a little bit into play, but we're still reasonably grounded. Under $500 for a glove.

400.

Yeah, exactly. Under 400 for a blocker.

All in entire set under $2000 before taxes. Canadian. That's like, I don't know, three cups of coffee in The States. Although you can ship these across the border. They cannot.

It's a really good deal and now they've we've already raved and you can go back and check out the old review about the X five Pro line. Now they've added the new custom graphic. Just another sort of bonus from the folks at Bauer. Really like it. I'm guessing these are flying off the shelf.

So if you wanna get in touch with Cam and get ahead of ordering a set of your own before he runs out, where can they get you?

Well, they can place more on the website very easily at the hockeyshop.com or they can give us a call (604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7900. Any questions? Me or the squad can help you out.

Alright. You and the squad can ask their questions. Me, I'm one of the olds. I recognize this graphic. Didn't wear it but knew like, when I yeah.

And so I'm gonna go have a nap. Yeah. That's a good time to I'm gonna have a nap. React out.

K. That Bauer Reactor R5 pro looks awesome, but probably people couldn't hear how great it looks on the podcast.

Not not the not exactly the best, visual. Like, you need the visual on that one. Now if you are just listening to us and you're trying to picture it, picture Frederik Andersen. Picture maybe, like, Frederik Andersen wore in the outdoor game when he was with the Maple Leafs. That was his tribute set.

I don't know Mike McKenna had a set like this. Picture we're talking about old school heavy, like, or I don't know. Just go to our YouTube page and check out That would be the quick one. Out the full review. Check out how it looks in the different colors.

I happen to like the blue myself, but they've got it black. They've got it in red. The black and white sorta, if you're somebody who's not sure who you'd be playing for yet next season, that one probably goes with everything. They've got all the options. So make sure you just go check it out at YouTube, and then go check it out at the hockeyshop.com.

Perfect. And, hey, just one thing I wanted to hit on, Woody, is you mentioned in that segment about the shipping and our American friends, even though their dollars worth so much more than ours, Cam can't necessarily get it to them down there.

Yeah. No. And that's, you know, just in case people are wondering why are they're upset about it. That's not his rule. That's the rule created by the manufacturers.

Not all of them. There are some for sure that can be shipped across the border. You can order from the hockeyshop.com and get it delivered to you down in The States. But for Bauer and CCM, they do not allow sort of cross border shipping off online sales. So you have to buy it in the country you live in in those cases, or maybe if you have a friend, and I'm not volunteering because I live a few minutes from the border, that can get it across the border for you, you can do it that way.

Unless, of course, the people at customs don't like me saying that, in which case, you did not get that advice. Don't say what he told me it was okay. Bottom line, CCM and Bauer don't ship across the border, so you'll have to figure out another way to get those gorgeous Bauer R5 reactor graphics second price point pads and gloves if you're living in The States.

Or just come for a visit. I know we got a friend from Connecticut who listens to the show who might even be in the Hockey Shop as we speak. I know he intends to visit this week. We've had lots of people from all over the world come and visit Cam. And Woody, one of the coolest stories I have heard so far when we get emails from people is a father and two sons driving from Winnipeg.

That's, if you're in The States, that's halfway across Canada all the way up to the West Coast to visit Cam at the Hockey Shop. And they sat on the bench where you guys do the reviews and did their own reviews. Like, that's pretty cool.

Yeah. Shout out to Fletcher Noonan for sending us that note. There were two parts to that that, really brought a smile to my face. One, the idea of father and two sons and the and the cross country road trip and including the Hockey Shop and all three of them goalies and going to the hockey shop and being you know, sort of doing the reviews. But then two, you know, near and dear to my heart, they were headed to Tofino afterwards to do a little surfing.

So sounds like an epic trip. I know it was disturbed a little bit by some car troubles. Apologies to Fletcher for having to endure that. I'm not sure the Far West Coast Of Vancouver Island is where the best opportunity to have a breakdown occurs. Car breakdown that is.

But, like, what a cool story and just kinda shows you the audience and how far it reaches, and it sorta it's nice for us to hear from everyone. So thanks to Fletcher Noonam for sending that. And to his two sons, you should thank your dad because that sounds like a heck of a road trip and including the hockey shop in it, like, thumbs up all around for that. And maybe we'll catch up with him in person because he's gotta fly back out to get the car once it's repaired. So, to all our listeners that reach out and tell us about these trips that they're on and make, we really appreciate it.

And if there's ever a chance for us to connect with you while you're at the hockey shop, don't hesitate to, reach out and let us know when you'd be there.

Yeah. That that story reminded me for anybody who hasn't had the chance to go to the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto, you can actually sit behind the reporter's desk and call segments, and they've got it on camera for you and everything. It's a really cool experience. So maybe Cam's gonna have to set up the cameras and we can do some virtual gear reviews at the Hockey Shop with people. Make make it a whole tourist destination.

Wow. I I'm not sure we can make Cam's head grow any more sizes. Like, he's already having a tough time fitting in the hats. So but, yeah, I guess I guess we could.

Well, I think you're part of the, you know, part of the feature as well. So you might have to get out there and help him out. It's not just about Cam. Okay. Our parrot segment this week, as always, Woody, is presented by Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

Yeah. Weekly content, new content we talked last week. Not only do you get the five daily primers each week, but, you know, last week, we gave you example of a couple of the, it was the bump drill with Andrew Raycroft, video highlighting proper entries into RVH, the mechanics and the key to a good bump across and exit. They had a thirteen minute segment on goalie systems on how to manage plays across the middle of the ice. There's always new stuff going up at Stop It Goaltending U, the app, whether you wanna dive in for a couple minutes a day just to sort of stay goalie focused and get your mind on it for a few minutes or whether you wanna have a longer search through all the archives of all the drills, all the advice, all the breakdowns.

It's a great way to get better as a goaltender. It's the world's most comprehensive app for goalies, goalie parents, and goalie coaches. And I should stress goalie parents too because they're learning as well about the game, especially if they're new to it. This is a great way to do it. I would encourage you with your young goaltender to go together.

And the same sort of holds true for us here at InGoal Magazine and ingoalmag.com and a premium subscription. And guess what? You get them both when you subscribe to Stop It Goaltending U, the app now. Whether you're subscribing on the App Store, iOS, or Google Play, you get a free subscription to InGoal Magazine, InGoal Premium, where we do a lot of the same things. So, if you wanna open your world up, your goaltending world up to both sets of voices, make sure you subscribe to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and get an ingoalmag.com InGoal Premium subscription as well, and we'll pretty much have you covered with content every week to help you become a better goalie.

Can't think of a better way than that partnership to get all the information that you possibly can to become the best goalie you can become or to help your kid become the best goalie they can. So speaking of parents, Woody, I'm a little tired of listening to myself talk, I'm gonna make you do a bit of the work here too, although I'll get you started. We're gonna make this one Woody's choice. I got two questions for you this week, Woody. Maybe next week we'll hit the other one so you can decide which one you want a little time to prepare on.

Parent Playbook

The first one, I've got a U9 goalie who is really struggling because he has to play in a full size net and there's lots of pucks going by him. As much as he loves the game and works hard at it, he's becoming disheartened. How do I help him? That's the first one. You got that one written down?

Mhmm. Okay. You're ready to go. Second one, also from a parent asking, even though it's a little bit late in the summer, they wanna know what should I be doing away from the rink for my young goalie in the off season? And there might only be about four weeks or so left in the summer, but we still want to give him an answer.

We're going to assume this is a goalie somewhere in that u nine to u 13 range as well, somebody young. Couple of different things we could go on, Woody. Which one do you wanna talk about today?

I was tempted to go with the nine year old struggling in the bigger nets. Although my advice to move to a place where they don't stupidly put nine year olds in the big nets would would maybe not that might be a short segment. So and let's be honest. When it comes to parenting advice, we're coming to hear your voice, not mine. I'm gonna go with the other one, Hutch, just because like you said, it's already August 5.

So why delay it another week? Let's give them a chance to figure out some of the things they can be doing if they can't get on the ice and, get ready for the upcoming season.

Okay. What

age now? Did you give me an age group on that one?

I said let's let's assume it's somewhere in the U9 to U13 range. So it's it's a young goalie. We're not somebody who who's trying to get ready for a Western League draft or something like that.

Okay. So I know you've got good advice on this. I I'm limited to two things. One of them I already said in that Sense Arena, but we don't wanna turn this into you have to buy or spend a bunch of money program. Although, hey.

Listen. Wanna stop pucks? That's a good way to virtually stop pucks if you can't get on the ice. My other one, and I haven't delved into it, but we do know her and how good she is, and it kinda fits where we have another goalie trainer on today. But I've seen Maria Mountain talking about having a program for goalies under 13.

And I know she's been very cautious in the past not to work, or not to push too much of the wrong thing at too young an age. So I'm gonna suggest you check out what Maria does because what she does is always excellent. And if she's got something specific for young goalies, they're also they also tend to be reasonably priced. So that would be, you know, again, without trying to just plug, go buy something, that's the extent of my advice.

Well, look, your advice is valid, Woody. You said I'm the goalie parent and you're not, but you're a parent. You have athletes for children. You're a goaltender yourself. And every goalie parent out there, including me at various points along the road, we're all just kind of winging it.

We're doing the best that we can. There aren't a lot of people. Fletcher maybe being an exception because he's got two goalies, he gets a couple of tries at it, that get this experience. So so your your opinion is equally valid, Woody, and I think you've really you've summed it up about as nicely as we can. But So here's what I was, thinking you're talking about.

Yes. Pick a program. Maybe it's Maria's, maybe it's another one you see out there. For me, the biggest thing is to believe in the program. You've got a short period of time left here, in the summer, and the biggest thing really is just absolutely believing in what you're doing and just going for it.

I don't think we're gonna do a whole lot of damage by not having the absolute perfect program at this point in the summer, but just do something and really believe in it. And that's advice that I actually if I talk about working with other goalie coaches that I would tell people, you know, just the importance of believing in somebody and really going for it with them is is got real strength. So if it's Maria's program, fantastic. If it's somebody else's, that's okay too. I personally, and maybe we'll hear a bit about this from Adam today in his chat with you, I believe in the power of calisthenics, just doing body weight stuff.

We are not trying to raise a weight lifter here, especially when they're young kids. And, so I believe in the power of body weight exercises. And as Adam correctly points out in his interview, today, as we're all watching the Olympics, think about what those gymnasts look like. They're not doing it in the weight room. If you have a little time left in the summer, Woody, get out there with your kids and play catch.

How about that one?

I like that one. I like that one. We've we've we've heard that from NHL goalie coaches having to take goalies they've drafted in their development camps and taking them out on the field and have a catch to work on high and high high high high high hand coordination?

Vocal coordination. Lips coordination. Yes. Excellent. No.

So important and it's easy. You can do it anytime. You can have fun together. Go get a couple of baseball gloves if you don't have one already and a ball and go have some fun. Just get out and move.

Do something every day outside. Go for a hike together. Anything that's gonna get you going, you're gonna be in that rink all the time for so long. If you're not helping yourself in front of the TV, get outside, have a little bit of fun. There are skill sessions going on now.

Every player is trying to ramp it up, getting ready for the season. Don't feel like you have to go out there and be a target in those skill sessions. But if you're going to, absolutely embrace it. We often talk about how those skill sessions are not beneficial to goaltenders. You are just a target.

They are not great drills typically for you. But if you're going to, absolutely embrace it, throw yourself into it, and make it a physical challenge if nothing else. And then the last one I will plug is we are putting out a little, program from our good friend James Wendland on five things you should be doing every single day. And they are away from the rink and they are easy to do. One of them probably not great for the youngest kids as he'll mention in it, but, check out that article at ingoalmag.com.

So those are my things, Woody. Just get out there, do something, body weight, play catch, go have some fun. You got four weeks left in the summer before the grind of the season starts.

Well, obviously, if you're at a at a more advanced level, you're probably you've been working through a program to get to this point already. But I will say even beer leaguers, Maria does have a free fourteen day sort of butter butterfly widening challenge, which can be a bunch of great exercise. It can be just a way to sort of get your hips going and mobile and ready for a season. Not fully ready. I'm not saying that's enough.

But if you haven't started any at this point, it will introduce you to her work and help your hips feel a little better. I do have one more. I actually came up with an idea here.

Oh, yeah. Let's

go. And it doesn't cost much. So I'm not plugging anything here.

K. What's up?

Public skating.

Heck yeah.

I mean, we're talking about, you know, hey. Like, oh, like, I can't get ice or I'm not on the ice or I don't have a goalie coach, but I want feeling your blades underneath you. And I don't mean just going around in circles. We have seen it. Connor Lacouvee, seventh year as a pro, out at a public skate on the island just doing crease movement pattern, just sort of feeling his blades under him doing goalie skating drills.

We heard it from Connor Hellebuyck. The when he had no offers the year before he went down to his first ECHL tryout, he went to public skates and just skated crease movement patterns. Eric Comrie is a young kid. Used to go out and skate crease movement patterns at public skates. I know you're not allowed like, you can't you can't take out full gear and take shots and all that stuff.

But what do we keep hearing at the National Hockey League level? At every level from Kristen Campbell and our latest Pro Drills that was up last week. Like, it's all about skating. If you can't move, you can't play. And there is an opportunity.

If you're willing to say, don't care if it looks silly that I'm out here in pads and skates and everybody else is just skating around in blue jeans or shorts, there's an opportunity to go out and work on your skating at a very low cost. And so really easy for me to say here, but we've seen guys right up to the highest level use this as a tool when they were younger goaltenders. And as I said in Connor Lacouvee's case this summer, even as he heads into his seventh year of professional hockey overseas, using a public skate to go out and get some ice and get some skating and and get some movement going.

It's funny. I've talked about, in various situations, just reach out to another goaltender, maybe somebody a bit older, a bit more experienced, somebody you know in the community. Don't be shy talking to somebody because every goalie wants to help. Two or three summers ago, I actually got a message from Connor who said, I want to see what you and Matty have been up to. I'd like to see what you're doing.

And we went out to one of those local skate sessions at the Rink Up Island and, he and Maddie had their gear on and we just talked about all the cool stuff that we've been doing and he and Maddie went through the paces and that was at a a stick and puck that anybody can just sort of drop in and do whatever they want. So really cool to have. And there's an example of a guy who's a pro wanting to learn from somebody at the time who was, you know, 14 years old or something and just show me what you've been learning. So talk to other goaltenders too. But make sure it's fun because there's only four weeks left in the summer.

If it's something different, it's probably gonna be fun and energizing. But don't feel you gotta go out there and drill your nine year old. Just have a good time together.

No. Drill them. Damn it.

Okay. Well, you can be the nasty one and I'll be the nice one.

That's why. So I don't have any young goalies in my family.

Feature Interview - Adam Francilia

Okay. Woody, enough of you and me. Let's get to somebody else. Our featured guest this week is presented by NHL Sense Arena VR and that is, of course, Adam Francilia. I would say this one was recorded in arguably the best location of all of our podcasts so far.

It was in person. You and Adam sitting on the grass in the shade just after a workout in Kelowna.

Yes. And I was wearing a floral t shirt that a bumblebee quite like. So it was it was like we really got organic here. It was a little piece of love out there that, you know, truly honing in with nature. But there's you know, we get into the programs and what he's doing and why it's had the traction it's had.

We talk about, you know, being at the NHL awards at The Sphere in Las Vegas as Connor Hellebuyck wins his second Vezina Trophy and and their path together. How he connects off ice to on heights, including, you know, talking about some of the tools he uses that I'm not sure actually have, you know, ever been fully revealed. So a little bit of the peeling back the curtain a little bit into some of the things they do. And, you know, as I mentioned at the top, dropping a big name that he's added as a client this summer. So, a little intrigue there, but a lot of lessons, a lot of learning to be had in this one.

Our feature interview presented by Sense Arena with Adam Francilia. Really excited to welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast. We almost lost count on how many times you've been a guest. I gotta go through the list. We're 260 plus into this.

So we've Wow. Had a few guests, my friend. Impressive. But always happy to have you back out in Francilia. Up here on a beautiful Okanagan day at the Apple Bowl, we're sitting outdoors after you've put a group of at the top of my head, were the nine guys out here?

Mhmm. Yeah. They're fine today.

And not just guys, PWHL goal of the year, Kristen Campbell as well.

That's right.

Through some unique looking paces. I wanna get into that and what the week looks like. But let's let's just start off with let's dial it back. For those unfamiliar, if you were introducing yourself for the first time to a goalie, how would you introduce yourself and what you do?

That's a heck of a question. And every time somebody asks me that, I say that's a heck of a question. First off, it's great to be back, Kevin. It's always such a good time to be able to see each other in person, know, it's we we chat during the season and obviously, we get to see each other down in Vancouver in the season and then we get to see you up here in Kelowna, so during the summer, so always good to be back and and with InGoal. And, usually, I explain that, you know, my my first and foremost thing is is long term development for goaltenders.

So I have a long term view and that's both personally and professionally. But I guess sort of the the, you know, meat and potatoes of what I do is obviously the sports science, but I kind of think of myself as a goalie mechanic, you know. I think for the most part, you know, my the thing that obsesses me is is movement and the neurological link to movement in goaltending. And so I think goalie mechanic or goalie biomechanics probably probably about as accurate as you can get.

The neurology side of it too, because I heard that in a lot of the conversations, the three days we've been up here as part of like training the neurology of the movement as well. We can get into that. Sure. Why don't we just start with because we're in the middle of a summer. Mhmm.

But for some of your clients who had long playoff runs Mhmm. They haven't even been on the ice yet. I know it phases differently. But maybe just in general, like, what a summer looks like for you and one of your clients in terms of how you set things up off the ice, on the ice, and and sort of that process between you and a client?

Right. So, you know, one of the things that's really, really handy in in the service that I provide or the program that I provide is it's a year round program. So I'm in constant communication with, you know, with the goalies. So when it comes to come to the whenever that off season begins, so in some cases, obviously, you know, had goalies that didn't make playoffs and then goalies like, you know, Stuart Skinner that went all the way to game seven. There's always a running dialogue and there's always sort of a running assessment in my mind that I'm making sort of notes and based and conversations that we've had.

So it's a pretty fluid it's a pretty fluid transition from sort of the end of their high performance phase in the season to, you know, I I kinda look at it the beginning of the season, I kinda look at it this way. I kind of look at, you know, the the goalies as kind of formula formula one cars that have been on the track all season, and now it's time for us to take them into the garage, pop the hood, you know, hoist them up on the lift and and see what we have to replace or what we can improve or, you know, things like that. And so the the the first phase, and and that's gonna be different for everyone. Like I said, some some guys are just getting into their phase one, you know, in the last couple weeks, and here we are in the middle of July, and then there's some who started their phase one in May. And I guess that's one of the other, you know, elements that depending on the length of off season, the goals are still the same.

So phase one is is basically initial analysis and assessment. So, you know, what are we looking at physiologically? What are some things that we knew physiologically during the season that maybe have to be addressed, you know, immediately off season? And then just some things from a biomechanical standpoint, you know, that we wanna really, you know, to every every year we wanna take steps to improve pretty much everything we can. And so there's the assessment.

There's a there's a decently long corrective phase.

Like restorative almost. I remember Ryan Miller once saying that like once his season ended, he had to basically unwind his goalie body into more of a human body. Exactly. I don't know if that would match sort

You know, goaltending is such an incredibly unnatural, you know, sport to play and I I define it as a different sport. It's it's a sport unto itself, and so because of the movement patterns, especially in today's, you know, today's game and and with, you know, things like the reverse and how much time guys are spending on their knees and in the butterfly and just how, you know, it's a it's become a position of perfection.

of what you're talking about or or not. You bet. Initially, you know, the things that we are doing will have nothing to do with resembling goal tending because we do have to unwind that. You know, goaltending is such an incredibly unnatural, you know, sport to play and I I define it as a different sport. It's it's a sport unto itself, and so because of the movement patterns, especially in today's, you know, today's game and and with, you know, things like the reverse and how much time guys are spending on their knees and in the butterfly and just how, you know, it's a it's become a position of perfection.

So it's a it takes quite a toll on the body, and so now we have to get them out of those patterns. We have to get them out of those tendencies. We have to allow for some tissue restoration, tissue regeneration because it is a very, very stressful position, especially at, you know, at the NHL level or at the pro level. So that's an that's a very important phase. So it's very it's unique to everybody.

Obviously, everybody's gonna have, you know, bits and pieces that are that are sort of bothering them that we might have to address in a in an acute just from an acute standpoint. Then there's also some of the chronic things that, know, I mean, as you know, you've talked to enough goalie and goalie people. I mean, how many goalies go through, you know, a career, let alone a season and never feel a 100%? So we wanna make sure that we take care of those things to a satisfactory level. And then and then once we do that, you know, we kind of start putting the body back together.

And so, you know, a lot of things and and for me, a lot of it is, I always believe in in building a core centered game x as opposed to an extremity centered game, and you can see that very clearly on how certain goalies play. So we start programming all that information, making sure that their, you know, their their core musculature, their pelvis, their lumbar spine are are healthy and fluid and and fairly robust. And then we just basically start building from the outside again. And it's a slow process for some guys, and sometimes it's a bit more rapid for others, but that's sort of our initial phase.

Okay. And so, like, you mentioned, you talked about, you know, you can see it in some of the guys, like, congratulations. Saw I wasn't in town when it happened, but saw the video afterwards. Like, cool moment to be there to watch and congratulate Connor in person as he gets his second Vezina Trophy. Know you've been a big part.

You guys have worked together. Kinda started right before the first one.

Right.

Would that be would he be one of those examples? And we talk about that inside out, like, how you train and how guys move and how guys play.

Yeah. Exactly. With with Helly, you know, you can definitely see and the fact that he has such a such a methodical, quiet, neurologically nervous system precise game, that's a game that's core centered. Right? You know, Helly Helly's, as of this year, considered the best goalie in the world, and he and he typically is from year to year, but the way he plays and the way he has developed his game around his strengths and also, you know, some of the things that he has to has to consider in his game, He has a game that's neurologically so precise that, you know, you never you don't usually see Helly on a a highlight reel, you know, or you do every now and then, but, you know, Helly plays an incredibly inside out game.

And so, you know, we took we took a long time to develop the again, not just the physiological ability, but it's the neurological ability as well to access that. So there's quite a coordinated phase that happens, and, that's sort of something that we try to do in the first phase.

How those two things interact? It's kind of a big question. Mhmm. Is there a way to dumb it down for the idiots? Like, namely myself.

Right. Well, I gotta dumb it down for me. I think initially, it's educating the body physiologically to be able to do the thing you're trying to do, and then creating the neurological link, and and I have some some techniques that I call jumper cables. I basically say these are gonna be jumper cables. So it's almost like introducing an external element that creates a sort of an excitation of the nervous system that the brain actually has to pick up on.

Because one of the things that's really important, and whether it's whether it's a goalie that I've worked with for years and years and years, whether it's, you know, with Reimer or, you know, even Bobrovsky or Hellebuyck, or even if it's brand new goalies or goalies that have just been around for a little bit. So say like a Skinner or brand new Andrei Vasilevskiy, you know, that's the those are those are things where we take a look and say, okay. There's some things that we wanna work on structurally, but these guys have played so much that the neurological patterning is so entrenched and ingrained that unless you force the brain into a new pattern or a new response or a new way, then it's very difficult to start rewiring the neurological aspect to try to coordinate with the physiological. So it's and and the longer someone's done it for, the more difficult it is to do it or the more challenging it is to do it.

To sort of unwind Right. The instincts that they've already rooted neurologically. Is that Exactly. Sort of make sense?

Yeah. Exactly. It's called the brain engram. So something we do so anything that we do from from scratch. So let's like, say, call it like a golf swing or something.

From the very first time you swing a club, your four first three to 500 repetitions, right or wrong, for most people I know

myself, that's why. I don't know. He stared into my soul as he said right or wrong. Did any luck share that video we took from few

years ago? Think he did, actually. Think I still have that one on my phone. But the first three to 500 repetitions of anything we do will become our our brain engram. So that becomes what's called a state of automacy.

So we do something and it gets downloaded into our brain, and our body no longer asks our permission to do it. It is just now habit. Now when when I start with somebody, when I see some of these brain engrams that have become habits over the years, I explained to them that it, you know, it only took you three to 500 of these things to kind of make it a habit. It takes three to 5,000 correct repetitions to rip out and reinstall the new brain engram.

So we do something and it gets downloaded into our brain, and our body no longer asks our permission to do it. It is just now habit. Now when when I start with somebody, when I see some of these brain engrams that have become habits over the years, I explained to them that it, you know, it only took you three to 500 of these things to kind of make it a habit. It takes three to 5,000 correct repetitions to rip out and reinstall the new brain engram.

Okay.

So that's a now it sounds like, well, jeez, that takes a long time. It actually doesn't take that long if you're diligent on it. You know, for if we're doing things every day that start to reprogram, say, you know, one of my big thing is sort of that lumbopelvic rhythm, sort of the pelvis low back relationship. Well, it actually doesn't take that long to to as long as you're doing them correctly, to actually re download that new engram.

Because you're it's not like it's you're not just doing in a movement pattern on the ice. You're building those patterns physiologically through a series of exercise. So you you say three to 5,000, if you're doing multiple reps of different exercise that are all ingraining the same thing, you can get there pretty quick.

Exactly. And and we always start from the most isolated form of that movement. So if it's, you know, sometimes it's laying down on your back on the floor or, you know, you're kneeling down, it's we don't wanna try to introduce complexity with some of these new in ground.

So you're not jumping right on the ice and trying to change it at that's that's the last step.

Absolutely. And that's why summer is such a great time to be able to do these things because taking advantage of that initial time off where, you know, and I encourage depending on how long someone's been playing for, really make sure you take enough time off that we can actually create these these correctives and and this new messaging, this new neurological link before you start getting back on the ice. And even when you do get back on the ice, I always like guys to get back on the ice, and for the first, depending on the person, you know, whether it's a week or or so, just not even have, like, proper shots or proper drills because the difficult challenges when we're trying to create new patterning or shaping or stance or structure or anything like that, goalies will be really dialed until it becomes hockey again. And then they just wanna stop puck. Right?

Especially if when what they're jumping into is, you know, a group thing where there's, you know, a bunch of skaters and it's drills and whatever. That's a real challenge because number so they kinda go to their default patterns. So there's a stage to this. Right? There's identification of some of these faulty brain engrams or faulty biomechanics.

Then there's how we're gonna do it, that very, very isolated way of reprogramming it. Then you start to coordinate it. So basically, the rule is first you isolate, then you integrate. Okay? But then you make it into a more integrative pattern off ice, and then you make those patterns off ice as close as we can simulate goal tending on ice.

And that's I have a lot of really cool protocols that I've invented using different things, including a slide board that I a kind of a goalie slide board protocol. So that's where they can be out of their gear. They can still see their body. They can do things in an isolated way, but it's still not quite hockey yet. And that's such an important transformative stage.

And that's kind of as we're getting ahead of ourself a little bit, that's where we get to sort of partway through the summer now as as, you know, guys are getting back onto the ice.

We saw some of that this week.

That's right. Right. You

bet. So you're taking all the work they've done, though it's like you said, maybe from the floor up

Mhmm.

At the most basic level, and now not taking it on the ice, but making it into a movement that they would be familiar with.

They can see themselves in that situation as a goaltender.

Okay.

Because and that's super important. If if you miss that component where they understand that this is an off ice thing, but then I just can't like, where's the link? And there's that usually that missing link where there's that component that's missing

Yeah.

When they when they go to transition from the off ice corrective to the on ice corrective. And I found that, again, things like our slide board protocols that we do, we have a a free slide, sort of like a non suspended slide, and we have that suspended slide that you you and Hutch saw when you guys were in the other day. And so some of those things that we can manipulate gravity and and, you know, and slow down movement patterns, that's where they can that that's where we can talk about, oh, okay. I totally get that as I'm going from my high to my mid to my low stance, as I'm transitioning down to my knees, and then when I have to move off my knees, we can do all that stuff on things like the slide board and other things that now they can see themselves being a goalie on ice, they can visualize.

And they can feel

really helps.

The changed physiology they've been working on in terms of, you you talked about pelvis and lumbar, and, you know, I don't know how much specifics we can get into, but Right. Some of those key elements that we see that that are kinda changing in terms of how we view goaltending and how we should move. Right. You mentioned we jumped ahead a little bit there. Is is there a phase there that we miss?

We went from sort of restorative and and then right into, like, what are the what are the middle parts?

Yeah. I think and it, you know, it was it was we kind of went through sort of even just on that on a couple days you guys have been up here where we kinda looked at some of the things we were doing on the slide board. And then what we did when we took that onto the ice as far as some of those exercises. And that's the other thing too that's been so helpful is we kind of get this and this is sort of the neat transition. So like we talked about, we isolate, we reeducate in a very rudimentary way, we repattern the neurological aspect aspect, then we integrate it into some more complexity, then we take things like the slide board where they can start to feel like a goalie again.

So it's almost like being a goalie off ice, And then with the exercises that we do, it's almost like exercising on ice. So that's the really cool fluid transition. So you saw when we were doing some of the activation stuff against the boards when they were in their reverse, how they were stacking. When Cal and I were applying different bands to hyperexcite the musculature and force that into, you know, turning on, for lack of a better word. And then from there, now they've been on the ice with that exercise that's that's reinstilled that pattern, now we can get into very basic drills.

Sort of you're in the net, now you're taking what we just did, and now we're turning it into a very simple drill. Because that's how you have to do it, you know, no matter how long guys have been playing for, no matter what level they've achieved, you do have to simplify things before you make them more complex. And that's sort of the thing sometimes where there's a discipline in that because, you know, a lot of guys will wanna just get out there and and start going. But, I mean, the guys I work with are obviously students of the game, right, or else we won't be doing this.

Well, we saw in the gym too, like, not not just the slide board, but in the gym on the day before they went on the ice, they were working on patterns, whether banded resistance or with weights Right. That were tied to what they so there's that phase as well. It's not all just straight to as you said, like, there's different it's not all straight from the slide board to the ice. Right.

There's Yeah. There's there's a lot of different things.

Continually Yeah. Reinforce and build those. That's right.

I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you

and strength. Told you all the ice. I saw them. I'm just not allowed to share them. It's funny because I think when people do see little glimpse and little, whether it's at net three sixty Mhmm.

When we're up here for the camps in the past and they see the, you know, they see the bands Mhmm. And elements like that, and they just assume that it's just, oh, you're just adding resistance to this movement. Right. It's very much a lot more than that.

Yeah. Absolutely. And and I think that's a really good point actually that you bring up and I'm glad you did.

Because people see those snippets and they're like, oh, I'm just adding resistance to the movement. Like, you're trying to rewire the movement and very specific parts of it.

Exactly. And and I think one of the mistakes that can be made is if you don't understand the intent and the firing pattern and the coordinate of aspect to what you're doing, and you just throw a band around someone and the person on the other end, the coach or the trainer just starts pulling on it and tells them to move, then you're, you know, not only are you probably not creating the right restorative pattern, but you're actually probably ingraining a mistake more. And we and we're also really careful on how much resistance we apply. This is not a pull as hard as you can. There's there's also a certain amount of resistance that will still allow the goalie to go through their pattern naturally, but it's just a touch more excitation on the nervous system.

But if you pull or resist too hard or go too fast, then you won't, you actually have to change your biomechanic in it to kind of cheat through it. And, you know, we have to make sure that we're catching those hiccups.

The key is the quality of the reps. Absolutely.

It's very much on us to make sure that we're, you know, we're navigating that through the other end. And there's a ton of, there's a ton of messaging that goes along with that as well. So it's a really, really, really cool process. I mean, after all this time, I still absolutely love that process because it really is the thing that creates change.

So we sort of looked at the summer. We we sort of zoom we zoom into a week and what some of the different aspects are on there. We've seen again where we just saw an outdoor Right. Session. The phrasing I think would you used was sort of primal movements.

Right.

Walk me maybe maybe pull it into a week and what a week looks like at this phase of the summer, and it's different because Right. You know, you mentioned Stu, who hasn't been on the ice yet after going to game seven, but Clay too. Who went to game seven with Hershey

Right.

Also hasn't been on the ice yet. So but he's still out here doing these exercises

Right.

With the Reimers and the guys who are already on the ice.

Yeah. For sure. And for Clay, who's joined us for two weeks now, what he's had to do has been different than the guys that he may be training with even in that same session. And that's, you know, that's important too because he's come off. I mean, I think and what I mean, it was a simultaneous game seven for both the AHL and the NHL where

it 20 four-twenty four the same time. Yep.

So, you know, he literally had only been off the ice for, you know, for three weeks. So, you know, he's getting back into it. Now, the nice thing for Clay is, you know, this is his third, I think, summer with us, and so he's learned a lot of the repertoire. So he's familiar with a lot of the things that we're doing, but every year there's, you know, there's a few things that we want to concentrate that he, you know, we want him to do better or differently or or evolve in. But, yeah, I mean, you know, and and then we and then the other thing I was going to say too is for somebody with an extremely short off season, I still need to do the the phases, but those become compressed.

Right? So where the typical off season for someone who either doesn't make playoffs or or comes out, you know, gets eliminated in the first round is three months, you know, then we, you know, we typically have those kind of three, four week phases. Well, in some cases, has to be three, three week or three, two week, or maybe the first phase, you know, requires us maybe the athlete requires more correctives. So that first phase is maybe, you know, sort of a four, three, and two or four, two, and two. So that's where from our standpoint, Cal and I have to admit, just manipulate our program design and our periodization.

But from a from a the standpoint of what a week looks like here in general, without, you know, getting too specific, on on Mondays, we typically do focus on from the with our goaltenders a lot on sort of that slide board reprogramming. It's more of a it's more of a it's a very I mean, gonna say a functional day. I think they all are, but what we do from a lower body standpoint and from a goaltending slide board standpoint, it's quite meticulous. So, you know, that's kind of the it's it's physiologically demanding day, but it's a real thinker as far as breaking stuff down, making sure form is right, that type of thing. And then on a Tuesday, we integrate a lot of Swiss ball work.

We have a really cool protocol called three d Swiss ball, which again, that's where it's a really cool concept because it's not very hard on the joints, but it's tremendously challenging from a coordinate standpoint, and it uses I mean, it's called three d Swiss ball. So everything is three-dimensional. The whole system is turned on, and it's actually that is actually something that we can also assess sort of a physiological or athletic intelligence standpoint too. So a lot of these exercises we do are assessments for us as well. So, you know, that's and and so Tuesday, you know, involves that and obviously, you know, we we have, you know, we have a strength component and that changes through the summer depending on what time of the summer it is.

Wednesdays, we typically do an outdoor workout, which which you saw today. And so that's that's nice. That's more of a flowing workout. You know, I've developed a, you know, a kind of a protocol that I call goalie primal. So it's, you know, one of the things that they have to do is they have to master their own bodies.

And so we create connected skills that are quite challenging and, you know, and you kind of saw some of the primal flow

I was gonna say some elements look nothing like goal tending, other elements flow right into something looks very much like goal tending.

Exactly. And and and part of that is even the things that don't necessarily look like goal tending, what it is is challenging them to connect skills and movements. So it's the same thing as saying, okay, well, how do I wanna shape myself in my post? Okay. I'm really good in my post.

Okay. How do I wanna be square at the top of my crease? Well, how do I get there? And how can we make those things more efficient? How can we take how can we make three step processes into two step processes?

How how can we take a two step process into a one step process? And so those those are really important. And the primal aspect, when we see how they can think ahead and how they can flow in from one skill to the next, it really has a lot of crossover onto what we see on the ice. You know, we see goalies that we we view as very smooth and fluid, and they can actually their their brain can actually keep up with what what the physiological demand is. And then we see goalies that tend to be a little bit more kind of I don't wanna say robotic, but a little bit more linear.

I tell the goalies, I want you to be able to round the corners off on your movements. You know, flow one to the other without creating too rigid of a transition. And so that goalie primal is really something that does that tremendously well.

And the ability to control the body and hold, you use the word shape, posture, the ideal, whatever we consider the ideal to be Right. Without having those little hiccups in between from one movement to the next, going back to old Right. I'm guessing is going to knock some time off on how long it takes to get there, increase efficiency, make you quicker by eliminating some of those extra movements that a lot of goalies just innately have in their game because they used to do things differently or the or the Sure. The way it was taught before.

Absolutely. That's the thing too where getting back to sort of the primal is, say for example, so one thing that we're without mentioning names, there's a couple of guys that we're trying to work on that have been not sure, maybe whether it's nature or nurture, whether it's just their default or whether they have been taught this way, they tend to manage their instability or their need to change direction laterally or rotationally from their posterior chain. So to dumb that down, basically, back.

What's the posterior chain, Adam?

The old posterior chain. So the issue with that is when it so when when we introduce the primal, some of the challenges that come with that require the body to sort of navigate navigate itself through instability. Well, we can pick up on that. You know, we'll stop and say, okay, see right there when you went from this to this, you came up and out of that movement and you try to manage that with your back, with the posterior chain, with your lumbar spine, and now all of a sudden, it pulled you out of that flow, and then you had to go back into it. So now On

the ice, that's a wasted move.

Absolutely. If you're if you're at a certain level and your eyes and head are tracking, and if you go you push from one, say, if you're on your feet on your post, and that play stays along the relatively same horizon, and you're pushing, you're generating power to get to the top of your crease, and your body doesn't know how to absorb that power. And I was just saying to someone today, as you get stronger, you get a better accelerator, but you also need a better set of brakes. So so the whole thing is how can we how can we make sure that that force absorption is absorbed by the right musculature in the right way to keep the right shape on your landing spot? So you're not coming, you're not pushing, coming out and away from your structure and then having to land where you land and then get back down and into the structure.

Because as you know, you know what that does to your tracking, you know what that does to the sort of the visual complex where the all the information that your brain is processing actually has to take a little bit of a hiccup and then get back down to it. And at the NHL level, that's too late.

Right. Like every little hiccup is Every little hiccup. Chance for a puck to be routed on you.

Absolutely. And a lot of a lot of goalies have just never really had that degree of breakdown to be like, okay. So when you push off of that, traditionally, you're going into a bit of an anterior tilt or say like you're you extend your back, you're getting tall, and you're becoming disconnected. So do you feel that? It pulls your elbows back because

was I gonna say, because the one thing that is because as you're talking here, just for our listeners that can't see it Right. When you talk about, you know, how do you say, playing in your back, but you use your posterior chain. And when you like, innately, what that does, like, as he's doing this, he's kinda pulling his shoulders back. So as soon as we we're activating that way, we're pulling our shoulders back, which our hands tend to come back and the balance points all change. And now when we wanna get back on a puck and into that stance, those things all have to come back forward. So those are innately extra movements we don't need. Just just trying to paint that picture because

you're That's that's right.

You're sort of you're sort of physically talking me through it, but I Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Sound I'm moving around as I'm doing it. That's exactly what it is. And the thing is, the muscle fibers that are fired either when you land in a spot.

So say for example, your brain has really accesses your your back muscles too much. Well, the muscle fibers that are activated when you land in your spot, your brain does not turn them off and turn the right ones on. It will start to try to manage whatever that sequence is, whatever that shot is with those muscles that are fired. So as you straighten up and you activate your lumbar spine and some of your thoracic spine, that just by very default pulls your arms back because your muscle fibers in your rear delts and everything get fired, and now you've got your arms back. Now you land in that spot, your brain all your brain knew was when I left my post, I was in shape a.

When it lands in in in location b, it doesn't always realize that it's changed shape. It just knew I I was here and now I'm not here anymore, and that creates an incredible disadvantage neurologically to be able to access a puck or read a play.

Well, I was gonna say too, so one of two things happen. Either you end up making that save when you get there in shape b, which is not ideal to seeing or making saves if we're our hands back. Mean, you want the extreme example? Look at Bob in Philadelphia when he used to pull his elbows back and his hands are out by his ear. It's pretty tough to make a save that way versus everything out in front

of In front of him.

Or plan b is we get there, recognize we're in the wrong shape when we go back, but inherently, that's wasted time. And as you mentioned at the NHL level, there is no time to wait.

There is no time to waste. So those are the things that are incredibly important and that's such a detail oriented thing. It's a detail oriented thing for the goalies, but it's also a detail oriented thing for the person correcting it too. And so those are, you know, that's sort of a little glimpse into what we're trying to achieve primarily in the first two phases because by the time we get to the third phase, that's sort of that, you know, full you know, somewhat fully integrated aspect that is gonna carry the guys through to, you know, sort of training camp. And we hope that we've done enough restorative that we've been able to, you know, re redefine those brain engrams that I referred to earlier.

Sometimes, I mean, you know, and I will say this, from a conceptual standpoint, some of the things that I introduce, we can make tremendous change in the space of one off season, but it's an ongoing thing. I mean, Helly and I have been working together for, I think, seven or eight years now. We're still, you know, tweaking, like making minor tweaks, but he's he's reached a level of mastery in this concept where it's just very it's subtleties. Right? But the first summer, sometimes the first two or first year, you know, it's a lot of information to take in.

And, you know, and some guys take a little bit longer cognitively to, you know, be able to assimilate it that information as well. But it's such a cool process. It is such a cool process. And and for most guys, they've never had they've never been involved in a process like this to this degree with those conversations. And, you know, again, as you know, goalies are, you know, that's one of the nerdiest positions out there.

Right? So we we can we can geek out for that for quite a while. And it's a it's a real fun process when you start to see the lights turn on. And then all of a sudden, they start to one of the one of the things that I hear the most is from and I've I've heard already heard this probably from four guys this this year that have started to do this. They say for the first time in a long time, I feel free.

And that's one of the coolest things that I can hear from a goalie because it's there's a not just a physical thing, but it's also an emotion. Right? I mean, feeling free in your game, feeling free physiologically, feeling free in your mind.

I was just like Free from having it. Like, because there's gotta be a process whereby this like you said, you have to work through these things to make the body, the three to 5,000 reps to make it innate. Right. But inherently, we, goalies, depend depends on the goalie Right. Can be thinkers, and thinking can lead to overthinking.

So I'm guessing that's part of it too. To be free to have it just be an eight and not something they're thinking about while they're playing.

Yeah. And and that's kind of a yeah. Certainly that where they're and, you know, when they get to the point where it becomes part of who they are, they don't have to think about it, but also what it does to the body. So many goalies are playing with way too much physiological rigidity, way too much mental rigidity because if you a tense body is a tense mind. Right?

There's tension in the body, but where we place the tension and how that how the body is shaped will define if that tension's more of a they can still play with freedom or if that tension creates rigidity. And like I said, rigidity in the body creates rigidity in the mind. Rigidity in the mind creates rigidity in the eyes and the brain and and how you're processing the game and all that type of thing. So to be able to make someone feel like they're playing free is such a tremendous, you know, tremendous gift to be able to give somebody.

Genuity is the same as tension, and tension as we've heard a goalie coach in Vancouver say many for many years, tension is the enemy of goal time.

Absolutely. And that is 100%. Absolutely. So that's, you know, that's a lot of it. That's really what that's really the sort of the foundation and the and the primary focus of what we're doing.

I mean, you know, some guys need to get stronger, but, you know, I also say there's strong and there's goalie strong.

But also too, you know, it's a complete it's a complete approach as well. I mean, you know, some guys need to get stronger, but, you know, I also say there's strong and there's goalie strong. And, you know, we were, you know, Cal and I are able to show these guys a difference between strong and goalie strong. Now there's some commonalities to what people think strong is strong, but goalie strong is a completely different world. Because most people trying to do some of the goalie strong stuff that we do, they'd you know, you need an ambulance parked in the driveway.

Right? You know, to they'd have to be booking in for reconstructive surgery, right? So what these guys can do in the way they have to do it, guys and girls, you know, it's it's such an such an impressive form of strength. I mean, you guys saw clay on the suspended slide board the other day, right, on the on the suspended groin.

The control is unbelievable.

Yeah. You mean, that is, you know, that's like Cirque du Soleil stuff. Right? So and it's really cool for us to see too because I sure as I sure as heck can't do it.

Take away like, there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna listen to this and be like, I want that. Mhmm. I want that as a young goalie.

Right.

We've certainly had some things, some you've shared some some drills and lessons over the years that you can get it in goalmag.com. Shameless plug for a premium membership. Absolutely. And counter rotation exercises and stuff like that. I'm always plugging at them.

I'm always working in here.

We've got a new one we're gonna share when when we get back and sort of work through it, sort of part of that sequence showing from slide board to gym to ice.

Right.

What should you know, those that can't get up here and, you know, like, aren't at this level yet, what are some of the are there is there anything, like, that you see out there as a common sorta I don't wanna say mistake because we don't it's not about calling anyone, but, like, common things that you see goalies do that maybe lead them into some of the habits that you then have to retrain from a training. Are there exercises they should avoid? Are there is this is a tough one. I'm putting you on this. Oh, we could be here

an hour? What time's dinner?

Okay. We might have you know what we might have to do on this one? Yeah. Might have to make this a part two.

I think we that would be I would say that's a standalone part two because if we really wanna get into I just think of value to the members, I think that probably would be and I'd completely be willing to do it is I would say that's a standalone for sure.

Okay.

Because that's easy an hour.

The what do they do? What do they what do the smart people do on the socials and the YouTubes? They say do this not that? We we do this, not that.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of do this, not that. You know what? I I will say this though.

I think understanding the sport of goaltending and what it is and what it isn't, and maybe this is a good enough takeaway for now. I look at goalies like, and I've I've said this before, you've heard it before, the goal goaltending to me is more similar to a martial art. I think it's more similar to I think it's more similar to the mindset that a gymnast uses. More the more similar, more similar to the mindset, like I said, that like the aforementioned martial artist uses. There's a lot of strength in both of those ass a tremendous amount of strength.

I mean, you look at you look at gymnasts, and I don't know who is more functionally stronger athlete on the planet than a male or female gymnast. They don't touch weights. Right? Now, I'm not saying you don't touch weights, but my whole point is we need to start thinking about goaltending from a much more sophisticated lens. And that I don't care if you're, you know, six years old playing or you're 36 years old playing or 46 or 56, you have to

He looked at me again when

he said that.

It's just like the golf swing, I feel seen.

You have to tell anybody that. They can't see us, they can't see where I'm looking, buddy. But no, I I think it's I think it's more from that standpoint. Look at those athletes, look at what a gymnast does, look at what a martial artist does. It's very similar to what a goaltender has to do.

And I think if we start looking at it in those terms and we start to get ourself out of the archaic mindset of what strong has to be and, you know, again, we'll save that for part two. I think that that will do a that'll do a heck of a job. Changing the mindset has to be the primary thing before we actually change, you know, sort of what we're doing physically.

And in the meantime, you talked about, you know, the hands and the body and and the way things move, trying to get there in one piece and and not having extra movements. Counter rotation is a word that that that sort of six, seven years ago, nobody talked about it. Now we hear it commonly. There is a series. You you have shared with us.

There's a six part series with with Hellebuyck doing some of the drills Yep. On how to offset counter rotations. It's a good starting point for people and try to work through those types of things. So again, shameless plug by me.

We'll we'll Good stuff.

We'll make sure we get a part two.

It's good stuff. Yeah. We'll get a part two for sure.

Adam, thank you so much for your time today.

My pleasure as always, Kev. Thanks for having me.

Outro

So my academic background, Woody, is also sports science. I've got a graduate degree from U of T and I spent a little time at the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs a very long time ago. So I love listening to Adam and watching him work because he's a 100 miles ahead of me. I I'm textbook smart about some of this stuff, but he knows how to take the science and then apply it to goaltending. And I love, what he said in that interview about playing goaltender is really a completely different sport.

Yeah. We've kind of been saying that for a while. It's a sport within a sport. A lot of goalies talk about it. And yet, we see a lot of trainers not train that way.

They still train goalies like skaters. And I I gotta be honest with you, like, right up to the NHL. They're I'm not saying everyone, but there are still, like, there are still goalies that are preparing for development camps by making sure that they can bench press a certain amount. You know, things that really have nothing to do with goaltending, but for the most part, I have nothing to do with goaltending. So, and there are some.

We'll get into this in part two, which we haven't recorded yet, and we gotta get give them a sec an excuse to get back up to Kelowna, you know, about what not to do. I kinda threw him a bit of a I blindsided him there with the question at the end. I didn't ask it in a very good manner, but we'll dig deep into some of the things, you know, that we you know, frankly, we we we do see right up to the NHL, some guys still doing that can actually be counterproductive when it comes to how our body needs to move, not just to be efficient, but to stay healthy as a goaltender.

Yeah. And look, I don't wanna take this as slagging any individual trainer because what everybody's doing, they're trying to do their very best they can and it is very difficult, especially if you're one of those people training an entire team and especially if it's young kids, you're you're working with all sorts of different teams and to and to know how to manage goaltenders differently from players, for sure is a challenge. But, Adam's a great guy to listen to, to learn more from, as as is Maria Mountain who you mentioned before as well. So it's great to see that there's people specializing in goaltender and helping us become better because everything we do in the ice, as we say, is quite different from players. Goalie skating is not player skating.

Moving in and out of the post isn't the same as, you know, protecting a puck on the half wall or something. It's just it's very different. And so it's great to see people looking at the science of it and trying to do a better job. And I would say that the number of NHL goalies, as you heard in there, that are calling Adam is testament how well this is working. That's it?

I got you speechless again, Woody?

Yeah. Hey. You summed it up so nicely.

Oh,

thank Nothing for me to add.

I would like to give one shameless plug. Thank you, I may, Woody. Adam introduced my son to Vivo Barefoot shoes. He really believes in the foot and stability of the foot and how important it is to train that as you also saw with James Wendland because we did a five damn things for the feet. And I had a great coffee because the president of Vivo Barefoot happens to be on the island right now and he and I got together, Andrew Bentley, and we chatted about their shoes, chatted about, training.

He puts me to shame as an incredibly fit guy and, just his interest and passion about goaltending and training was exciting. So I just want to thank Andrew for that coffee. He did set Maddie up with a pair of shoes as well to help his training, and I just wanna thank him for that.

So I saw Adam in them, his guys in them, a lot of his guys in them and talking with his guys about what makes them different. But just maybe fill us in quickly on because I don't Sure. Well, it's

a close Not being

an athlete myself, I've not worn these shoes.

Well, you probably should. Look, Adam really believes in the power of training barefoot, to the point that Matty, when he trains here, found the only gym in Nanaimo where he could actually train barefoot. And now it's happens to be probably the best one for athletes anyway. And it's one of those facilities with the turf and so on. So you're not working amongst machines and plates and so on in in the local gym.

But he really believed that, having those stabilizer muscles activated all the time is super important. So Maddie trains barefoot in this local gym or at least he did until now. The Vivo barefoot shoes, I cannot give you the full plug for exactly what's great about them, but I will say this, it's about the closest thing you can do to training barefoot with the stability and protection that a shoe gives you. That forefoot is quite a bit wider. So when you first try them on, the sizing feels a little bit different.

We've often Because most shoes sort of pinch forward and try and look all fashionable and cute, we often get shoes that are maybe a little too big for us because we need to find a way to fit into the front of that shoe. But these ones are made with a wide toe box so that your foot can spread out a little bit like your barefoot. Some people have seen people working in those toe shoes, you know, the shoes that cover each toe individually and a lot of them

Maria uses those for sure.

Maria does and I think I've seen James in them too. So this is that kind of a concept by just making a really, really wide toe box. It's a very thin shoe as well. So you can feel it's not that huge fat cushioning and so on. It allows your your shoe, your feet's natural stability to actually come into play and to be trained.

I hope that's a layman's description.

So you can spread your toes a little bit. Yeah. And we've heard James talk about sort of when we've we've got the five damn things about sort of getting the feet going

and

lifting the big toe and and the ability, how that gives you better access to your edge is if you can sort of train, I think, the mechanoreceptors that work uses.

That was impressive. Yes.

Yeah. Probably wrong, but go check go check out his video and he'll tell you. By the way, we've got a new one coming up this week. So my question now, I'm taking the end of our podcast and and thank you and turning it into an entire segment. Maybe we just need to pause on this, but I'll throw the question out.

If it's better and this goes back to Carey Price. Remember when he took his socks out because he'd been doing a bunch of yoga and he talked about spreading his toes and having

That's right.

Similar sort of access to the ability to balance and stabilize with his toes more spread.

I've forgotten that.

Should we be having skates with more room at the front? Like, because most skates do kind of pinch that off. Would we would we benefit as goaltenders by being able to access those same things within a skate bed?

That's a That's a great question. You haven't completely stumped me, but it's a great question. I guess the the thing I would wonder is, can you translate that extra movement you have if the footbed of the skate was so much bigger? Would that translate to the blade? You know, like if everything was attached to you via bungee as you move, that piece of equipment doesn't move with you.

It sort of gets left behind. So would you get the same reactiveness out of your skates if you were less connected to the skate itself? I can see it in training, but then we want that skate to respond when the foot makes its movement. So I'm not sure if it was much wider that that would work, but we should ask

Well, and we definitely

somebody like that to

Yeah. We've got we've got a project here now. We definitely can't at the of the day too, if we're going to widen the toe box, we can't widen it on the toes on the big toe side because that's gonna affect your ability to grab an edge. I mean, we've gone through all this process of getting rid of cowlings and thinning that out so that we can access that edge without slipping out on the plastic that would be inside of the big toe. So it would have to be the other way, and then that might defeat the whole purpose.

So I maybe answered my own question, but I had to ask it anyways.

No. It's good one. Hey. Safety wise. Talking off earlier.

Whoo. Safety safety wise, it might be good though because we certainly heard from a lot of goaltenders as that toe cap gets smaller and smaller and smaller, those shots get felt more and more. So

Well, as those toe caps are more and more exposed by longer toe laces and the fact that we used to have a cowling over top of it and we don't anymore. And it's for the most part protective, but at the same time, you're definitely feeling it more.

Maybe the pendulum will swing back.

Maybe.

It's gonna be interesting. I have I've said it here a million times. I can't believe how the technology continues to advance every year. We always think it's about as good as it can be and then these companies throw us for a loop and come out with something awesome again. So looking forward to it.

Anyway, enough of you and I blabbering on, Woody. Goalies, goalie parents, and goalie coaches, the summer's winding down, so get out there and enjoy the weather. Our thanks to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, to NHL Sense Arena, to Cam and his team at the Hockey Shop, and to you for joining us. He's Woody. I'm Hutch.

And for Millard, thanks for joining us again on the InGoal Radio Podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. We hope you have another great week out there in goal.