InGoal Radio Episode 329 with former NHL goalie turned Hall of Fame broadcaster Daryl Reaugh

Intro

Welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast. We've got a new host this week. It's Woody. As if you don't get sick enough of hearing me talk all the time anyways, along with Hutch. The NHL schedule is wreaking havoc on goalies and goalie health.

It is wreaking havoc on the InGoal Radio Podcast both in terms of our time to get guests lined up, but also our chances of getting the three of us together. So this week, Daren couldn't make it. You've got me. You've got Hutch. We've still got a great show.

Our NHL Sense Arena feature guest, Daryl Reaugh, recently inducted into the media portion of the Hall of Fame, Foster Hewitt Memorial Award winner. We had a great conversation with Daryl. Of course, color commentator of the Dallas Stars, played for the Edmonton Oilers, has a Stanley Cup ring. We get into all kinds of great stories with him in our feature interview presented by NHL's presented by NHL Sense Arena. But first, do you know that today is an anniversary, Hutch, as we record this?

I did not know that. I'm embarrassed because you're gonna get me on something I should know, aren't you?

Well, something we need to discuss because there are a lot of teams around the league right now. We talked about the injuries and the schedule, but there are also a lot of teams around the league right now or a handful that are just looking for a save. And on this day exactly one year ago, the Colorado Avalanche decided to completely redo their NHL goaltending, trading for Mackenzie Blackwood and Scott Wedgewood, the woodshed as they call them.

The woodshed.

At the cost of Justus Annunen, Alexandar Georgiev, who was in the news this week for terminating his contract with Buffalo to go back to the KHL. Kolosov, a second, a fifth, and a sixth. So we hear a lot about everybody's re signing their guys, and it's hard to make deals. This is a Stanley Cup contending team that completely rebuilt their goaltending on basically one fell swoop, changed the starter and the backup, and here we are a year later. Scott Wedgewood is killing it as Mackenzie Blackwood comes back or works his way back from injury and back into more regular playing time.

And to celebrate the anniversary, oh, guess what? In back to back games, they both pitched shutouts over the weekend.

Hindsight is 20/20, though, isn't it? Doesn't it seem like such an obvious play and now everybody's pointing fingers at one or two other NHL teams? Why can't you just do the same thing? It certainly wasn't guaranteed to work out for them.

It helps when you're playing behind a good team too, for sure.

No. For sure. Absolutely. It does. And I'm not suggesting they could have brought anybody in and it would have been successful.

I'm just saying, I mean, there's a reason the other teams were willing to let those guys go. Like, it's not a guarantee when you pick somebody up that is gonna work for you. So it's a little tough to point fingers and say, why can't anybody else do it? Although, I do tend to sit on that side of the fence a little bit. Why can't we make a few things happen and shake things up a little bit here, people?

Well, you have to you have to take that risk. Like you said, it was a risk. Things weren't going well in Nashville for the team or for Scott Wedgewood, so they were looking to make a change. Blackwood was more of a, hey. Like, not gonna be part of the long term picture here in San Jose.

And for sure, there's less of those situations out there right now maybe, but take a look at you know who else is near the top of the NHL? At least my numbers, adjusted numbers, adjusted stats, and I think, on most of the nhl.com counting numbers as well, some guy named Spencer Knight. Like, there's Chicago taking a shot at a guy who had a ton of pedigree, wasn't gonna get the opportunity in Florida, and look what he's done for the Chicago Blackhawks. So it can be done. I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it can be done.

Haven't we said before that the sport and, in particular, the management in the sport is very risk averse? Absolutely. Most people want to say, I tried everything I can without taking a big gamble.

And and the reality is it's a tough to predict position. Like, that's just the reality. But I think in Blackwood's case, in Knight's case, you've got pedigree that comes with it. And in Wedgewood's case, like, we've seen him have success. Like, he was really good in Dallas.

Really good in Dallas. And so it's not like he was the only thing not working out in Nashville last season. So, you I look at some of the underlying numbers on them, and and these are guys who had a track record that said it was worth that risk and the risk is paying off right now.

If I can just jump on my soapbox here for a second. I love that you just said track record and I hate when people talk about pedigree. Because track record is basing a decision on the results of the goaltender in question. And so often pedigree, people will say, well, he was a first round draft pick. He's worth a shot.

All that means is that some scouts when the kid was playing junior or NCAA or something really liked him. That doesn't mean that anything's happened in between. But the results and somebody having the ability to interpret what they've done over their previous seasons at whatever level, that's different. That's a track record.

Well, I for me, pedigree when I say pedigree, it's not just draft history. I think of Spencer Knight going straight into the NCAA to having success in the National Hockey League early on. I think a world championships under pressure in the moment, in the spotlight, having an opportunity

record to me. That's all. I'm I'm I'm getting into semantics probably.

Don't semantics me, Hutch. I'm the king of semantics.

Come on. That's that's just good track record. And my guess is if you were looking at that advising those teams, you would have had some concrete things beside, look, he's won at this level and come up early and so on. I think you would have had some very specific things about how he plays the game that would suggest to you that he could be a good shot.

Well, Spencer Knight. Right? Like, I think if you're a goalie guy, love watching or a goalie person, you love watching Spencer Knight play. Right? Like, just the technical, the eye test has always been there for Spencer Knight.

Interestingly enough, some of the adjusted numbers weren't even in the early days with Florida. Like like, it was environment. But when you watched him play, when you talk to him, you're like, this should work. And so it's nice to see him getting an opportunity to make it work in Chicago as they sort of take a stride as an organization, better defensive structure in front of him this year that wasn't there when he first came to Chicago last year, and and he's doing a great job behind it. So really, really fun to watch sort of this next generation, and it brings me to another question I have for you.

The value of mentorship. We've lost in the last five or six years, like, all these high end number one long time goalies that were you know, we think of Corey Schneider coming into the league Mhmm. And having Roberto Luongo there. I've talked to guys around the league about the importance. You see Saros and Kochetkov.

And yet for a lot of these guys coming in now, I mean, Spencer would've had Bob in Florida. But for a lot of these guys coming in now, like, we've we've sort of lost this whole generation of these, you know, in in a lot of cases, Henrik Lundqvist, hall of famers, right, to sort of help mentor those guys along. So it's it's an interesting challenge because I know there are some goalie coaches in the league that feel it's really important in your first couple of years to sort of have that guy around you. I talked actually with Jake Oettinger about this this week about Ben Bishop. Mhmm.

It's not technical. It's not technical. It's it's the life, the pressure, all the other things that come with being, you know, a starting goaltender in the National Hockey League.

Well, and then just take the opposite. How many times have you mentioned that guys less less nowadays, but guys just get mired down in the East Coast League as young prospects, and they have nobody. They've got another young prospect with them and no goaltending coach to help work with them. I've I've often said mentorship is is huge. Right?

For for young goalies, I praise programs that, bring the older goaltenders into development programs to help the young kids and give them somebody they can talk to. How often do we say it's important to have somebody who speaks the language, who understands what we're going through as goaltenders? And, might even talk about some of that in the parent segment today. Who knows? I often, though, in addition to mentorship because it's going to depend on who the individual is, obviously, the pairing.

Is somebody ready for it? Is somebody a good mentor beyond just being there? There has to be a little bit of an insulation factor. No? And I and I don't I I mean that only in the sense that a team is able like, you could play Corey Schneider when he came into Vancouver in a very careful controlled developmental way because you know Luongo's there.

He's got his back. They're gonna perform with him. If it gives you the opportunity to develop a goaltender as opposed to bring a young prospect into a weak team in the National Hockey League, not that Vancouver was at the time, but and and then just sort of throw them to the wolves, I think. So it's both mentorship and and putting them in a situation where they can develop with little bit less pressure.

Oh, you're right. It's a good call. Remember Schneider. Like, it was very this amount of games the first year and then a similar amount of games the second year, but with tougher games, bigger opponents, the first end of back to backs against a good team rather than always getting the second half scraps. Like, they they very carefully brought him along until he was, you know, right there with the long ago pushing for starts in the third year.

So that's a that's a really good point by you. But the value of mentorship, I I think it is important. And I gotta say, like, if you're looking for mentorship on your gear, you should go check out our friends who bring you this podcast over at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports, thehockeyshop.com. There is no better place to get set up for equipment that will help you have success now and in the future than with our friends over at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Obviously, Black Friday is coming up as usual.

They've got some fantastic sales. They've also got some new gear coming in. We're gonna get into some of that in our gear segment this week. We're gonna talk about the true seven x four blackout skate. I mean, if you're talking about gifts and maybe the skates are getting a little worn out, Black Friday, blackout skates, it's almost like we planned it this way.

We we didn't, folks. It just worked out. But they've got the new Brian's in, lots of new gear, lots of great experts that can answer your question. Don't just go Black Friday shopping all willy nilly like Daren Millard would on the website. I want this.

I want that. I want everything. Ask the experts. They will help you make sure you get gear that will fit either your game or the game, ability, playing level, protection requirements of the goaltender you're buying for this holiday season. Check them out.

Gear

Hockey Shop Source for Sports at thehockeyshop.com. And speaking of them, let's go talk to Cam about the True 7X four blackout skate in this week's gear segment. Cam, True 7X four. Right? Yeah.

I kinda done this skate. Did we? We did this.

Are you sure?

I'm pretty sure we did this.

Well, what if there's, like, something new for it? What's new? What if it's, like, a special color?

Oh, man. Are you back into your Batman era?

It's the blackout skate. Oh.

So this is what we're doing? This is what we're doing. We're doing Cam as Batman. First, we did the belt, the utility belt. Now he likes his black skates.

So tell me what is new with this 7X four. Is it just the color? Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. He's Kevin. He's flustered.

So he missed the intro.

I am Cam. Oh, Batman.

K. Let's go.

Alright. So bit of a refresher for the True Catalyst line of skates. You can see they've got their slick blackout edition Goal Skate.

So This is new.

This is new.

Okay.

Still same technology as what we see as in the old 7X 4.

Motion cuff. Got your

They're the original of the Lundqvist loop. Their liner has also been blacked out, which

is actually pretty skookum as well.

That's the hydro foam liner.

That's correct. And still, again, exact same tech and spec as that we've had before previously in the lineup. A good quick refresher on that. So a true skates stock off the wall. This is giving you the consumer an option without going custom to get that true wraparound feel and fit.

So within store, we get that same kind of level of thermal moldability that we do get out of their custom skates can really create this nice wrap and good fitting

At a lower price point.

At a lower price point. That's correct.

And now it just comes in all black?

And now it comes in jet black. And that also means this blackout holder is available aftermarket too as well. Okay.

So if I wanted to truly channel my inner Batman, can I add black steel to this?

So as the Keen only? Keen eyed Kevin noticed. Yes. There's only stainless steel. This is the same stainless steel that is currently on the seven x four.

If you did wanna upgrade, they do have their black carbon coated DLC steel.

That is available. Quick release, so you can put it on pretty quick.

Nice and easy. Swap it in. Swap it out. But that is available aftermarket. It doesn't come stock on this gate.

Cam, do you sell black laces?

We we we we we do sell black laces.

So we could do black laces too because I wanna be fully blacked out. So Like, he's, like, all about Batman. I'm thinking, like, more like kit, you know, the night rider, a black Camaro with, like, all the black everything. Like, that's that's my era.

So those that even know what Knight Rider

is Which is probably not many of you. Look it up.

It's okay.

So I'm one of the olds. I mean Knight Rider skate for the Beerly crowd. It'll be cool. If you've got any questions about the different options, including the other lines in True because we've got you've got the full one piece. You've got the nine x four. You've got different options.

Yes. There's no better place to find out than through Cam and his crew here at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Cam, where can they get you?

(604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790 or thehockeyshop.com.

True. 7X 4 blackout skate. Almost almost blacked out. I'm I'm just saying I would have had black blades and black laces, but we're getting there.

Thanks, Kevin.

I gotta say, what do you called it in that Gear Segment? They had just a couple of misses in the skate. They coulda had the black steel. They coulda had the black laces. How sweet would that have looked, especially on Black Friday.

And blackout. Like, to me, it's just like if you're gonna call it a blackout, like, those are the little details. And I know that the steel's different. We can always upgrade and put the black black edge steel on there. But the laces, the laces would have been that would have been and, hey, listen.

Speaking of hits, people didn't get it in the podcast other than to hear my reference to Knight Rider, the old show about the was it a Camaro or was it I can't think it was a trans I'm not an American car guy.

I got Trans Am in my head, but

I don't know. I don't remember which one, but I can think of the theme music. Didn't didn't didn't didn't didn't. That's all I can think of when I think of Knight Rider. Folks, Hutch work Knight Rider images into the YouTube video that accompanies our gear segment this week.

Just for that effort alone, you need to make sure you check it out. But I would highly recommend every week, you go check out the YouTube segment that accompanies this. It's one thing to listen to us. It's another thing to see the equipment, and there is always a video that goes with our gear segment. You can find it on our YouTube channel, all our socials.

Every time we go to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports and film one of these, it's video and audio. Make sure you check

out both. Don't oversell the, amount of kit that we had in that video. It's a lot of hockey kit, but not a lot of kit, the car, which was, by the way, Woody, a 1982 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am. I had it. Modified.

Did I say Trans Am or guys? Oh, I said Camaro. You had it.

I don't yeah. I think I had it.

Yeah. I like I said, not an American car guy. I had a friend that had one of those in high school, and it was loud, and it was kinda actually, you know what? Remind him like, I had a friend with the Trans Am, and it kinda reminds me of playing goal because all he did in high school was burnouts. And so that smell of getting hit by a puck with rubber, like, those are the two things.

When I get hit hard enough in the head or off the shoulder, glancing blow, and you you know it, folk. You know it as a goalie, that smell. It's just like pure burning rubber up your nostrils. I go right back to my buddy's I I think it was a firebird. Think it was a fire chicken that he had in high school and then just lighten up the tires in the high school parking lot because we were that cool.

I still remember being about 10 at a family barbecue or something and announcing that when I grow up, if I have enough money, I either want to have a Ferrari or a Trans Am. And everybody started laughing because I had no clue the gap and difference between those two cars.

You know what the good news is, Hutch? We're doing so well here at InGoal that you can probably afford the Transam.

The nineteen eighty two one. Yes. Yes. That doesn't run.

Alright. Time to get back to business here. And speaking of business Indeed. The business of making more safe. We try and help you do that every week at the InGoal Radio Podcast with our ProReads, and I am very pleased to report that we have some new guests.

This week's ProReads features Casey DeSmith of the Dallas Stars with a great breakdown we did in the locker room, able to walk into the locker room with an iPad. We walked over four different plays and some really good tips on depth management. I think something that is shifting in in the league has shifted in the league, but not everybody has caught on. We've had these conversations with USA Hockey. They used to talk about ready on red when a play attacks to be out and ready when it hits center ice.

Now it's about waiting till it hits the blue line. And Casey talked about that being a change as part of this breakdown of a rush chance, a change he made under Ian Clark. Like, the idea of being out past the blue ice when the play is at center, all it does, in this case, it's a wide entry, a pass into the entry across the ice, that just would have made Casey make a huge push across and maybe be late on the next pass. And so he sits at three quarters depth, waits until that pass is made, and then steps out on that guy to the edge of his crease. So it's not strictly a depth management thing in terms of, you know, where you ultimately are in in your crease or relative to the edge of your crease when the shot comes.

It's about not wasting energy by being out further and retreating earlier than you need to, and that's a trend I think we're seeing around the league, Hutch.

Well, not not not just not wasting energy. It's also simplifying. The the fewer moving parts you have to your game, the fewer opportunities you have to make mistakes. And I just mean mistakes in positioning that can happen as soon as you've got those wider pushes as you were just talking about or now you have to adjust your depth. It's so easy for for you to be off just by that tiniest of amounts.

And, of course, with the way those guys shoot in that league, you only have to be off by a tiny amount.

Well, it's it's less is more. Right? And it's so we're definitely seeing it at all levels. It's something I think goalies should think about. Like, I really do think goalies should be thinking about this.

You know, I mentioned going out with a u eighteen team a little bit this year, and the one kid moves exceptionally. But when the puck is coming into the zone off the rush, he's, like, like, several feet outside of his crease. And it just feels as well as he skates, it feels somewhat needless. And then the extra distance that he has to move all the time to constantly be in position, you know, as good as he is, the precision required is just it it's making your life more difficult. And so when we see this trend around the league, I know it's something that, you know, even at Edmonton, Peter Aubrey was talking about with Stuart Skinner.

Like, hey. Like, there's a guy that, you know, maybe skating isn't on the the list of strengths relative to weaknesses. Why are you out early on these plays? Like, let the play what do we say all the time? Let the play come to you.

So great breakdown this week of exactly that, plus a few more elements from Casey DeSmith, who, by the way, since the start of last year, statistically has been the best goalie in the National Hockey League, best backup goalie in the National Hockey League by adjusted save percentage last year and this year combined. He moved so well along the ice. We get into that. And, you know, that ProReads segment is all about sort of asking goalies to think through the game, to read the game better, and it happens to be sponsored by a company that we think will help you see and read the game a whole lot better. That's our friends over at Vizual Edge.

Vizual Edge. Every goalie has that night here and there where the puck looks huge. You're ahead of every play. You feel calm, patient, in total control. Then there are the nights where we're a half step late.

You see it, but you don't really see it. You're reaching. You're guessing. You're fighting it. That's not technique.

That's your eyes and brain not processing the play fast enough. Visual Edge fixes that. It measures how well your eyes track and process the game, then gives you a custom plan that trains improvement. Three fifteen minute sessions a week on your laptop or tablet lying on the couch. It's what NHL goalies use to make the game slow down when it matters most.

Goalies like Jordan Binnington, Cam Talbot. From November 21, so now right up until Sunday, December 1, you can get 55% off your first three months of a monthly plan or 55% off an entire annual plan using the code I n g o a l, all capitals. That's 50% off, and to get 55 off, save the extra 5%. If you're an InGoal member, go to any ProReads on the InGoal website and check out your exclusive member code. You'll save 55% now until December 1 only on Vizual Edge, a training tool used by the best in the game.

ProReads are the best way to learn how to read the game. And I've been speaking to a number of minor hockey associations this week, introducing them to our program, associations that have come on board as InGoal partners, providing InGoal for all of their goaltenders. Great meetings we've had. And I was explaining that ProReads might be NHL goaltenders breaking down saves, but they're still basic, and they still apply to even the youngest of goaltenders. There are lessons there for goalies of all ages.

I explained to our association partners and all the parents in these meetings how they can use ProReads with even the youngest of goaltenders, sort of modify the approach perhaps. We're not talking about spending an hour a day studying goaltending. We're talking about five minutes a week going through the ProReads. Imagine five minutes sitting down with an NHL goaltender once a week for a year. What's that worth?

I would suggest a lot more than the cost of an InGoal membership. And if you're lucky enough that your association provides it as part of their development program, then that's fantastic. And if you're not, maybe have a word with the goalie development people there and ask them to get in touch with us.

Great advice. As you said, we've had we've heard this from NHL goalie coaches. Like, there is no better way to learn to read the game than through our ProReads program, which is a a staple of an InGoal premium membership. Once a week, you get that video breakdown with an NHL goalie. And like I said, we've been able now to take a tablet into the room.

I can't wait to sort of share how we're doing that in the very near future with with the Coach Now program, and it allows us to sort of go on-site and grab one or two from each guy rather than having these big hour long sessions. It allows us to change up the voices that we're bringing to you each week. And we had Jet Greaves just two weeks ago. We got Casey De Smith this week, and that's gonna expand the different perspectives that we bring to you in terms of how these goalies see the game. Doesn't mean you have to take everything they tell you and put it into your game, but you're learning how they approach it, how they see it.

And these little tidbits, they all sorta they they sorta fuel your computer database. And when you're out there on the ice, some will become instinctual, some will become stuff that you wanna add to your game. Like, there's just so much knowledge there that these goalies are so gracious to share with us. And it got me thinking a little bit to bring it back to the parent segment because I know you're gonna talk about goalies, you know, who look good in goalie sessions but maybe struggle in games. I'm hoping ProReads is part of your answer because I gotta say, there's a nice tie in in there to learning how to read the game, and that would be our friends over at Stop It Goaltending.

Because when you get a membership to the Stop It Goaltending U app, you also get a membership to InGoal Premium. And now, thanks to our friends over at Stop It, you can go onto their app, it'll link you directly to the ProReads that your membership provides and all the other elements of InGoal Magazine. Stop It Goaltending brings 25 of coaching experience led by Brian Daccord. He's been a goalie, an NHL goalie coach, an NHL goalie scout, and a NHL director of goaltending with two franchises now with the Detroit Red Wings, puts it all on your phone or your tablet in an app, all that knowledge as well as the InGoal Magazine premium subscription. This week, they've got daily primers about having more fun.

They've got a breakdown, Pyotr Kochetkov, as well as a look at Spencer Knight in in one of his breakdowns versus Jacob Markstrom where they sort of look at how they play the game differently and similarly and look at some plays there. Every week, there's fresh content at the Stop It Goaltending U, the app. And like I said, you get a a subscription to InGoal Magazine Premium. Best of both worlds and best of all, they present our weekly parent segment led by mister David Hutchison. Hutch, fire away.

Parent Playbook

What do you hope I don't disappoint you here? Because this isn't so much about how can you solve the problem. Maybe we could get into that into a in a future session, but we'll see what you say when we're done here. This is really just answering the question, why does my child thrive in goalie sessions but struggle in games? A parent recently asked this on the Goalie Parents Canada Facebook group, and it stood out to me because in the comments, one reader, very kindly, thank you, linked to our episode of the podcast with Dr. Saul Miller.

And, and I thought they were absolutely right and on track that this is a common challenge and the mental side of the game plays a huge role in it. Now now there's no single answer without knowing the specific goalie, the type of training they're getting, the level they play at, but but there's some general thoughts I have as to why this is happening. First and foremost, I wanna say it's normal. Many goalies feel great in practice and then struggle in games, and that shift can be confusing and frustrating for both the goalie and, quite frankly, their parents. But it's not a sign that they're a, quote, unquote, bad goalie.

It happens to goalies at every level, and helping them deal with the situation soon is important. And number two, games add pressure, chaos, and unpredictability. In a controlled goalie session, the pace and difficulty are intentionally set at a level that your child can largely manage. So they make enough saves to feel good about their game but miss enough to show that they're being challenged. And that's just good coaching.

Now, of course, most of the shots they see are clear, predictable, and designed to work on specific skills, while the game is the opposite. Players are everywhere. Sticks and bodies block vision. Pucks take deflections. And even at young ages, the play can shift angles constantly, especially for the younger kids.

And, Woody, ask beer leaguers too. One rush might look like an NHL release coming in on you and the next, like a knuckleball from a falling beginner. It's rarely this distinct, of course, but the unpredictability of the game can take years of experience to handle. Number three, back to the mental game, it matters a lot. As goalies move up, most can stop anything they see clearly, and the difference becomes the ability to read the game and what's happening between the ears.

Even small amounts of worry, self doubt, or overthinking create hesitation. Hesitation in movement and in processing what's happening in front of them, and hesitation leads to goals. Goalies have to play in a flow state, something maybe we could talk about in the future. As Woody likes to say with a nod to Top Gun, if you think out there, you're dead. Or perhaps we should say, if you think out there, someone with a striped jersey will be pulling the puck out of your net.

mindset work with a sports psychologist or a mental skills coach can be a tremendous investment. Ideally, I would say before things start going sideways because it's much easier to stay on track than to pull a young goalie out of a spiral.

And, of course, the internal struggle is hard enough, but we all know goalies face immense external pressure from teammates, coaches, and as you get older, team management who think that more than one goal in 10 shots means you're having a bad game automatically, and they let you know it. That's why mindset work with a sports psychologist or a mental skills coach can be a tremendous investment. Ideally, I would say before things start going sideways because it's much easier to stay on track than to pull a young goalie out of a spiral. Number four, confidence is fragile, especially when practice and game results don't match. If a young goalie performs well in sessions but struggles in games, they'll eventually start questioning themselves.

And once that happens, the game stops being fun, which is the last thing we want. That's not to say we have to protect them from being scored on or losing games, but we do have to give them the skills to handle it and to evaluate their performance independent of results. Us moms and dads need to learn this too. Number five, reading the game takes years. Goalie sessions teach foundational skills, efficient movement, tracking, save execution, typically clean, predictable scenarios.

the ability to apply those skills in the chaos of a real hockey game comes through game reps. Goalie coaches are increasingly adding more game like play and goalie sessions, but it's still not the same.

It's true right up to the pros, and that's okay. The game is built on a foundation of basic skills, but the ability to apply those skills in the chaos of a real hockey game comes through game reps. Goalie coaches are increasingly adding more game like play and goalie sessions, but it's still not the same. And ironically, at the youngest levels, they can be the hardest to read because the players often don't know what they're doing. We, of course, have mentioned before hearing this about the transition just from the American League to the National Hockey League where the game is much more predictable.

Now if that's happening to goalies at the highest level of the game, imagine what's happening to your younger players. Playing the game is simply much more difficult than goalie training. Final thoughts. This is a long journey. It takes years to master the skills of goaltending, and it takes time to develop confidence, composure, and the ability to evaluate performance beyond goals against or wins and losses.

Support your goalie on the mental side of the game as much as the technical side, and it will pay off for years. Hang in there. It's a rewarding path, but it's not an easy one.

Well said, Mr. Hutchison. See, I thought we might be going a little more to, you know, the goalie practice is regimented and, you know, the game isn't. And, you know, that I I I I'm glad that you dealt with the mental side because my assumption, not knowing where you were going, only knowing the topic, was, oh, we're gonna talk about, quote, unquote, goalie school goalies, a a phrase that I hate. But there is possibly an element of that too. Like, that can be part and we said we can save it for another time, but I would think, someone who processes the game and reads it instinctually because they're going to school on the patterns of the game, as Mitch Korn would say, it's not a game of shots, it's a game of patterns, might be a little freer mentally to go out there and just play rather than expect everything to be like our goalie skates where this pass goes to here, to there, to here, and then we'd shoot at you.

And by the way, we shoot at your chest.

I don't disagree with you, but I think it is so layered and nuanced that it's really hard to pull out what it is. If you are that free flowing goalie just reading the game from a young age and it's worked well for you, I think there's a really good chance you've been in a situation where you can be successful because that mental side develops. You develop that confidence. You know you're gonna be okay. Like, imagine if you're that goalie who is an incredible goalie school goalie, quote unquote, and now you're stuck playing on a team that gives up 50 shots a game of which you and I both know a lot of those are gonna be great a's.

You could quickly develop that sense of I I don't know how to do this. I'm not I'm not ready for this. But maybe maybe if they'd come up on a different team, we'd see them completely differently. How those things of confidence and skill and reading and everything, intermingle with each other, I don't know if we'll ever be able to tease that apart. But I think we have to do our best to put our kids in the best situation we can.

Well said. It's funny how much has changed. You're right. There is no perfect answer. Yet, the game is constantly shifting around us.

So how like, there never will be a perfect answer is, I guess, what I'm trying to say because the game just constantly shifts in terms of the expectations of the goaltender. What works now might not work two years from now or even two months from now. And our feature guest can speak to that a lot Because he played in a whole different era, and now he analyzes the game in the modern era. And he does it at a level that brings joy to his audience, brings information to his audience, not just from a goaltending perspective, but I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many of the people that do the job he does are former goaltenders. Daryl Reaugh, recipient of the Foster Hewitt Memorial Award at the Hall of Fame induction weekend, gave us some time this week to catch up for the InGoal Radio Podcast feature interview.

Before we get to him, that interview, as always, is brought to you by our friends over at NHL Sense Arena who also have some big savings as we head into Black Friday.

They sure do. And it is coincident with NHL Sense Arena 26 being released, which has killer new features. And as we said, it's on sale, and InGoal can help you save even more. That's right. The incredible VR tool for goalies that is so good, NHL goalies use it even between periods of actual NHL games.

It is now available with more features than ever. NHL Sense Arena has been updated with new features every month since it came out, And once a year, they release a big new edition, and this is it with NHL Sense Arena this year. You get to compete against NHL pros with cool graphics from NHL uniforms. You can earn and collect player profile cards. They've enhanced the three on three mode with full teams, a full season, new face off mode.

You can build and manage your team. You can take control of the roster and chase season long championships. Even the new game flow mode has new shooters in it where you can face shots from NC double a players, from places like BU and Yukon, from USHL teams, some great players to face in that great new game flow module. The dangle pro, of course, isn't just for forwards and defensemen. You can practice your stick handling dangling around objects in this cool mixed reality scenario.

All of that, plus it's got faster reads, smarter AI, louder chirps, real NHL energy, Woody, and now they have holiday season pricing with 50% off. They're offering free shipping now, and they even throw in a nice little green biscuit and Franklin ball that you can use with that new dangle mode for working on your stick handling just like Joey Daccord works, and isn't he an incredible stick handler? Check it out today at sensearena.com, and don't forget to use the code I g m 50 to save even more on top of that already great 50% off deal.

Feature Interview - Daryl Reaugh

And they've got Meta Quest three and three s now. So they've they've upgraded the bundles all used used to be the old Meta Quest. They've upgraded the headset that you get with it for virtual reality. So just never been a better time to invest if you've heard us talking about it over the years than now with NHL Sense Arena. Now our featured guest is somebody who if there was an announcer, like there is on an EA Sports game for NHL Sense Arena, this would be my choice.

Daryl Reaugh would be the guy to do that. And he guess what? He's done the EA Sports game color commentary in the past. He's done everything, worked for some of the biggest broadcasts, now working for the Dallas Stars. Great career.

Played minor hockey here in British Columbia. Played junior hockey starting in the BCHL over in Cowichan in Hutch's neck of the woods, then up to the WHL where he was an all star with Kamloops, drafted by the Edmonton Oilers. We get into broadcasting. We get into the way the game has changed, including his old 15 inch wide pads that he used to wear, the equipment, the effects, the evolution. We get into it all with this week's featured guest on the NHL Sense Arena feature interview on the InGoal Radio Podcast, Daryl Reaugh.

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. Far overdue as a first time guest, but as we celebrate his induction into the hall of fame, Foster Hewitt Memorial Award winner, Daryl Reaugh of the Dallas Stars broadcast team joins us this week on the InGoal Radio Pod. Daryl, thank you very much for doing this. How are you?

I'm great. We finally got this done, planned, ready to go.

We've been threatening for a few years. I finally finally pulled it off.

Yeah. It was pending.

The timing is perfect, however. However. What an incredible weekend, to follow along from a distance. What was it like to live that in person and be a part? And and what jumps out at you, you know, here we are just just a week later as as as the moments that that you'll remember forever.

Yeah. I mean, when I got the phone call in the summer from Chuck Caden, and I've known Chuck forever, and we we worked together in Hartford. I thought he was kidding because most of our conversations are frivolous and usually trying to make each other laugh and succeeding. So, like, when he told me that this was going to happen, I I honestly thought he was he was full of it. And he was just like, oh, I'm telling you, you're going in.

You deserve it. You know, and then you, it gets announced and you probably, a few, there's like three great things, you know, that stood out beyond, you know, everything that was phenomenal but one was when it got announced and you heard from, you know, all these people, people that I didn't even know, you know, knew that I I did what I do in that that were went out of their way to say congratulations and that was that was unreal. You know, and it happened. It was for days of emails and phone messages and texts. And then you get up there to the actual, weekend of it, and the the hall of fame does an incredible job of of laying it all out and, you know, taking care of your family.

And then being able to share all that with my daughters who are now 26 and and 24, you know, they a lot of these people that were there, they they knew their names. They kinda knew them. They might have met them when they were younger, but they had the time of their lives there. So that, you know, that part of it was really important for me, and I was so glad that they enjoyed it. And some of my friends got to know them a little bit through that.

And then the biggest thing was obviously seeing, you know, the luncheon and then seeing your plaque on that wall in the great hall upstairs next to those names. Right? You're like me. Like, we grew up those were those were our idols as much as goaltenders where I said in my speech and it's gospel. Like, I love Ken Dryden and but Danny Gallivan and Dick Irvin and, you know, Saturday nights starting at 05:00 right after the Bugs Bunny Roadrunner hour, that that was my life as a kid.

And and then you look up there and, you know, those names and abundance of others are all on that wall. And it is it's truly surreal. Like, still doesn't really, you know, fully rest in my head easily because I'm just like, it can't be. Like, I'm not one of them. And then yet I have a jacket that says I am.

So, you know, that that was sort of my my experience with it beyond all the other stuff that went on, but those were the three major things that really, really stuck out.

Of all those calls and all those texts, you said some surprised you. Were there any that stand out above others? Not not above others, but as more on the surprising side or names that you didn't maybe expect to hear from?

No. But, you know, like like, just having guy you know, somebody like, say, Jiggs McDonald. Like, I I don't know I don't know Jiggs McDonald. And he went out of the way. We talked for for twenty five minutes.

You know, the legendary Islanders. I can I can hear him and Eddie Westfall doing islander games when I was a kid? And, you know, he went out of his way to call. Doc Emrick did. You know, I got a chance to work with him briefly on versus and and NBC and, you know, just a wonderful call from him.

I mean, it just went on. It was just like a bunch of people that that that took the time to a, took the time to say congratulations, and b, supported the, you know, the the actual honor in saying, yeah. No. You deserve this. It that meant the world to me, you know, when you hear from from peers in that.

And then you and and the other the other thing that really struck me was that when you look at all the broadcaster names, because the the one wall has both the writers in the media wing, the writers, and then it has it has broadcasters. There's not a lot of color analysts. Like, there it's single digits up there. There's a a ton of play by play guys, and there's some hosts and and things like that, but there's not a lot of analyst color men. And that that one floored me.

I I was just like, my god. It it's a exclusive little little club that I have entered into. So that that one resonated.

I was gonna say I didn't realize that. That that that is incredible. Would did you ever think, Like, the passion you have for broadcasting comes through every time I listen to a Stars broadcast. But when you switched from playing and started maybe on that side of it, I I if I'm correct, it was alongside Jim Ralph in a an American Hockey League production called Ringside. When you made that switch, did you ever envision this, or was this always the goal after making that switch to to to be on the TV side, to be on the day to day side with the with the color commentary?

Yeah. I was fortunate that, you know, there's a lot of guys that don't know what what they're going to do when the game isn't loving them back anymore. And, you know, you you see guys, they think they wanna coach, they think they wanna go into broadcasting, they think they wanna do this, and but they don't really know. Like, I I knew. I, like, I wanted to go into broadcasting.

I got injured few times late where, you know, it was sort of, I guess, a message that this ain't this ain't gonna be long because of that and also the opportunity to to maybe dip your toes into broadcasting a little bit because you weren't playing, you're there, you're available. And then that, like, I was still playing when we were doing that ringside show. It was, you know, it was cutting edge stuff. We're basically a highlight show for the American Hockey League and there was nothing out there. This is pre YouTube.

I, all the young people would be like, what are you talking about? You can, anybody can put a show out there now. But back then, it was I think it was Piman Productions and and we did this goofy little show with some comedy and and and then the highlights they they ran through the the basically the week in the American Hockey League, the second best professional league on the planet and it gave me yeah. It it gave me my my start in that. And then, you know, there are a bunch of other things I did play by play in the East Coast Hockey League.

I did color in the IHL and with the the Detroit Vipers that were like an NHL team then. You know, we're at the Palace in Auburn Hills. They had their own television production inside the arena. Like, I really lucked out. And then that was the the you you know, when you when you get an honor like this, it it it really does make you, you know, stop for a minute and and start looking back.

Because you don't really do it. You're just plowing forward doing games. But you started looking back. You you're like, okay. The palace at Auburn Hills doesn't even exist anymore.

It's been torn down. And, you know, you've been at this for a while and I I look back at all those stops and I think of how fortunate I've been to have, you know, done this for as long as I have, obviously. And and just some of the stops along the way have been have been incredible. So, yeah, quite a everybody likes to talk about journeys now day nowadays, you know, your journey, their journey, talk about your journey. Well, my journey is a pretty pretty wild and circuitous one now, but with a lot of stability because I've been able to do games for the stars for, you know, three decades now.

And, man, that doesn't happen a lot anymore.

Broadcast like goaltending seem to be constantly evolving. My understanding is your you have it like, your passion runs deep. It's not just show up and talk about the game, but you think about the way the game is broadcast much the way a young goaltender thinks about the way it's played in front of him. What what kind of things when you think of influences, on you and your broadcasting career, but also influences that you may have had or or a voice in certain things along the way? Like, how do you look at the game and the way it's being shown and shared to the audience these days?

Well, it it changed in a big way. Right? When they went to the, you know, massive rule changes in the league when they shut down for a year. Like, when you think back to prior to that, so we're you were talking pre 2005. Right?

Yep.

As an analyst, you pretty much had, I don't know, anywhere between forty five seconds to a minute on every whistle. Like, the games were three and a half hours long or more, which was tough on on a on a pace of play standpoint, but it it was also great for an analyst. That's why football is such a a wonderful television sport. Right? Because there's all this time to replay and analyze and talk and, you know, cover this and tell stories and everything else because it's five seconds of action followed by a minute and a half of nothingness unless they're going hurry up.

So when they made that change, we've I I remember I I talked to John Davidson. You know, all us goalies are either goalie coaches or or broadcasters somehow in the media, it feels like. And I asked him. I said, what are what are we gonna do? Like, we're gonna drop the puck fifteen seconds after the whistle goes.

And I was hoping I would get some deep dive drive on, know, an advice in that. And he's like, well, we're just gonna have to learn to edit. And I was like, yeah, I guess we are. And you do, like you adjust. It's like, it is a lot.

You make a good point. It is a lot like goal tending. They've adjusted, they've grown, they've morphed into sort of a different animal at that position. And we've had to do the same thing. Like, I you can't stop the game anymore.

Like, there was a time when you could stop. I had a telestrator. You could draw on things. It was very helpful, but you just can't do it anymore. And the the biggest frustration nowadays is there are, like, five things I wanna go back and talk about or show on on whistles and between trying to get promos and commercials in and just the speed of the game and how quickly they're back at it again, like, you you gotta be you you have to be very selective in in what you're doing.

And, you know, that's probably been the the biggest challenge. I I just like the I like the fact that the and there's some guys out there now too that I have tons of respect for that that bring some entertainment value to it too. Like, you don't wanna be the show, like the game's the show, but you also don't want it to just be a tedious, you know, conversation. And no offense to podcasts, but I don't wanna watch a hockey game and listen to a podcast. Like, I don't I don't wanna just listen to two guys talking.

I I wanna hear somebody calling the play, and I I want my broadcasters to be aligned with one another almost like their partners in a dance. And when you get that, I think it's a really I think it's a really good game. It can enhance it. If it goes the other way, you can ruin it.

As a podcast host, no offense taken. Don't worry about that. As a viewer, when I'm watching, the one thing I crave more of, and maybe it's just because I want the rest of the world to know how hard the position has gotten, is that view from behind the net. We see it on power play sometimes. If I could watch the whole game, and this is obviously I'm in the minority because I'm a goalie, it would be from behind the goalie's net to watch the chaos ensue.

How much How high up? Oh, that's a good question, CCM.

High up do you want that camera?

These are the lenses through which you view it. I'd be curious what your opinion is on it. I just wanna see the zone. I wanna see the chaos. I wanna see we we all like the it's so the game looks so easy when I watch it from the press box, fifth level up.

And oh, there's the space. And here, he's flying into that space. Why didn't he make that pass? It's it's so much faster and harder down there. So I think the closer as much as it might be hard to see things, the the lower you go, boy, I remember the twenty ten Olympics covering it for Associated Press.

And all of a sudden, after all those years of being in level five, being down behind the penalty box and and thinking, my god. There's no room out there. You know? So to be able to capture that a little bit more too without losing the ability to follow it. I don't know where that balance is.

Yeah. You're you're hitting right on on the head of what I try to hammer with our group and that it you know, there's so many obstacles, but I I believe our game should be shown from the end of the rink. And I've I've said this for a while, but it you know, for safety reasons, it's it's been made impossible because of of netting. Right. Like, there there's so there are so many impediments to to our broadcast, glass boards, netting, you know, I think broadcast does an incredible job with with the challenges that are in their face in in bringing these these games.

So my if I'm gonna soapbox it, my two things are and I I talked to our guys the other day about this because where do we go to overtime? I think we're in Florida. So I'm sitting on the plane after, and David Perlette is is over next to me, and he's going through the game. And all of the the, you know, whatever they call it. I think they call it the all 10.

I call it the all all, 12 because I wanna include goaltenders. Of course. Right? Of course. So shows everybody on the ice, and it it's the the all of the video is from in behind the net.

It's up it's probably top of the or bottom of the upper bowl or something like that where the camera is. But my feeling always was or certainly now is at least overtime, three on three, shoot it from that camera. Just cover it from that camera. There's only, you know, six, players on the ice and two goaltenders. And it's it's very flowy in that.

And you never you never lose the putt. Like, you you see boards to boards. You're gonna see everything. A little bit on the near side, I guess you'll lose it in behind the net, but that's it. And, but you're dealing with glass and boards and and, and netting up in behind the the end end of the rink.

So it's still difficult that way. And until we get, I guess, drones involved. But Right. But my feeling on that, right, and you're probably the same way is that if if any kid out there is playing EA Sports, if if they're playing video games, that is the angle. That that that's that's the way they play the game.

And I I think we should merge the two a little more. We we should think more that way. The other the other one that that just fries me is that we cover the game we cover the game from the game cam. I forget what the percentage was. I asked my guys.

But basically, you know, you've got that that one scanning camera at center ice, the game cam. Yep. And that's the that's the same way that we covered the game when it first came on television fifty years ago, and we haven't changed. And what it what it does, and this this bugs me. This this is my my biggest pet peeve in broadcasting and has been for a while.

Is that when you walk into say a a sports bar or something like that and they've got multiple sports up there. They they might have all the sports up there. The the most difficult one to watch on television is our game because the camera's constantly swimming. And the camera's panning this direction and the play turns around and goes that direction. And it it's not very it's not easy for your eyes to follow it on television.

It's not the way you would watch it if you're there live. And for the life of me, we have not figured out how to hit that cable cam helps a little bit, but somehow you need to be able to have a camera that runs up and down the ice with the play and moves back and back and forth, not locked in the middle where the camera chases the play. Does that make sense?

It it does. It does. And I gotta say, like, the end zone view, I never even thought of the addition of the netting and obviously the boards and just even the logistics side of it. I just selfishly wanna see it through the goalie's eyes so it's easier easier for me to find clips when I wanna do breakdowns with the guys.

But you, you know, you you mentioned about moving down low, and you know this. I think anybody that has covered the games in that or or been there as a as a fan understands, like, there are three different games going on the same game. If you're up in the press box, that's a different game than it is in, know, like the mid range seats, which is a different game. And if you go down between the benches, like I've done games inside the glass or whatever you want to call it. From from down there.

And that's a different game. And if you've played or you've, you know, backed up as a lot as I did and that that that's basically your position. And you get used to that. And you understand that although it looks like it's chaos and there's no room and how did he see that? Well, they you do navigate through that stuff when you get used to it.

But if you take someone from the press box and you stick them down at ice level, they're perplexed as to how a goaltender can ever find that puck and how little room there is down at ice level for those guys to do stuff. It it it's the craziest craziest thing to experience with those three levels of of actually just watching our game.

It's so well said because I I kinda had lost complete touch with it being in the press box for so long. And then after the Olympics, it's like it like, with little mental note to remind myself to go down and and sorta realize, feel just how fast and how little space there is out there, you know, on a game by game basis.

It's a

good going back up.

It's it's a good exercise in it, especially for those of us that cover the game because you you can get sanitized with with just how easy everything looks from up above. Like, it looks slow, and and there's, you know, why why didn't he make this play? Why didn't he do that? Why didn't this happen? And then you get down, you're like, oh, now I see why that didn't happen.

that's why a lot of former goaltenders end up being analysts because that's how you see the game. The game comes at you and it goes away from you. And you're down in the thick of it and the game funnels to you. Like the game funnels to you.

So, yeah, it's a very valuable exercise, I think, for everybody to do that. And look, that's why a lot of former goaltenders end up being analysts because that's how you see the game. The game comes at you and it goes away from you. And you're down in the thick of it and the game funnels to you. Like the game funnels to you.

The whole game funnels to both nets. So if you have no understanding of that position and and what's going on, I I, you know, I I think it's it's a little tougher thing. I think it's it's a it's why in in football, you know, quarterbacks end up being analysts. It's why catchers, pitchers, and and baseball. Again, whatever's central in in hockey, goaltenders are central to the game.

Is that something like like you mentioned, like, John Davidson, like some of the legendary broadcasters yourself included in that list obviously come from that that background. We had John Garrett on the podcast not too long ago. Do do you like, I think we all as goalies understand that even at even at my low level, like, how we view the game. When you talk to other guys that played the position or now in the broadcast, like, is that is that part of the conversation, or is it all just assumed by this point?

No. I I yeah. I think a lot of it is assumed, but look. You're gonna have to talk about the goaltender all game long. Right?

Which is great. And some guys, you know, some guys will go overboard where the whole game is just about the goaltenders and, you know, that that can be painful too. Like, there's a lot of other things going on. Everybody's gonna sort of default to what they know best. Like, you have a defenseman in the booth. He's gonna talk about demon a lot.

If you have a a score in the booth, they're probably not gonna be very good because they don't understand everything else. Right. Some do. There's there but a lot of them just don't understand anything else other than, you know, somebody get me the puck, and I'm I'm gonna shoot it and try to score. So I I wish more coaches got into the into our business.

I think we need more more coaches. You know? Like, it would it would it would help. I think anytime I I see a a coach on a panel within a game, you know, you you have to balance it out a little bit because they tend to not have the the entertainment side of things. They they have the information side down pat and they can they can talk about things.

They can see things. They can break down things and, you know, very quickly in that, but you also have to make it, you know, consumable and and enjoyable. And and so it is, you know, there's some there's a lot more things that go into it probably than than people know. And and you have to have patience the way the game is now. Like like, you you you truly need to be a little bit like you were as a as a goaltender.

You know? Like, you can't be in a hurry. You can't stop the puck when it's at center ice. Like, you gotta you you need some patience, and and and then you have to be able to react on a you know, moment notice like a split second and because you don't know what's upcoming and then you gotta be able to do that and then get back to things again. So, like, it, there is, I think, some some comparisons between the two.

Not not a lot, but some.

The way the game's changed for goaltenders? I mean, I I I'm guessing, like, we can't even compare what it was like for you growing up to compare to what it is now. What are your fondest memories? Like, at the risk of rewinding this too far and taking up too much of your time, like, how did Daryl Reaugh become a goaltender and ignite this passion that continues in the booth?

Well, I I mean, I was I was, like, five, six, seven years old, and Ken Dryden came on the scene in Montreal, and I was like, I'm be him. And in my neighborhood in in Prince George, I was the youngest kid. So if you're gonna play street hockey, you're gonna play one position. None of them wanted to play goal. You know, and you get rock in the cheek and, you know, frozen tennis balls drilled at you.

Yeah. But you wanted to be a part of that. And I I look, I enjoyed it. I I gravitated to that. Like, I I like the challenge of being like the the guy.

You know, I didn't I I don't know what it was. Like, I played defense my first year of organized hockey, and I hated it because I I didn't wanna be that far away from the goal. I didn't wanna be up ice. I always just wanted to be in goal. I and I wanted to be the backbone sort of thing.

And so that was the that was the origin of it, really. And and I didn't I wanted to be a cowboy, and I wanted to be a goalie. And that was it. I wanted to I loved horses, and I loved Ken Dryden.

Well, you've I mean, where the careers ended up is pretty perfect then, I would say.

Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah. You're right.

I mean, you know the other thing too, Kev Yeah. Is and you're probably the same. I I I don't know a goaltender from my era, and I I I don't think they're that different now that didn't just fall in love with the gear. Like, the gear was a huge part of it. I can smell leather and and deer hair and felt.

I I can remember walking into Northern Hardware and seeing the smell of brand new pads. It's like walking into a into a boot store in Fort Worth and, you know, you walk in and you could smell that leather. And I just that is my favorite scent on earth. And I loved everything about gear, gloves, masks, you know, that when when Brown came along with new chest and arms when, you know, we had toe buckles back in the day. I I I don't know if I'd even understand how to strap those.

They're pads anymore. I know they call them that, but they're they're like boards more than anything else in how they work. It's such a more intelligent way of of strapping yourself to play the position now than what it was in our day when, you know, the gear was heavy and it got heavier and heavier as the game went on. You know, the player's gear doesn't doesn't gain an ounce, throughout a game now. So it's it's just massively different.

They're so athletic. They're so much better trained and coached than than we were. There was a fear fact factor back in my day because there there were holes in your gear where you felt the puck like it hurt. I think a lot of us were masochists. We you enjoyed that a little bit.

I did. I I I like pain sometimes. It meant it meant you got in front of it. You you made a save. You know?

You had

you had three a three week old banana all the time with bruises up and down your arm and your legs looked like an abused child.

Is that is that one of the biggest like, it's funny because we we talk about the technical evolution of the game. And to me, you know, all the different things that are taught are about, you know, like, as much as we can is even though it's gotten so dynamic and you have to have reactive element and make glove and blocker saves and extend and open up now, that still the principle is if I can put my chest between that shot in the middle of the net, you know, it can't go through my chest. I might miss with the glove, but it can't go through my chest. But in you in that area you're talking about where the fear factor existed, you didn't wanna take it off the chest. You wanted to catch it in the webbing because it hurt otherwise.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one of the biggest one of the biggest changes is that. Like like, it was so foreign to any of us that you would drop down on your knees, stay down on your knees, and let guys just whistle pucks into your torso and your arms because it hurt.

Like, it hurt a lot. And that's why you, you know, your your blocker and your glove were out in front of you for a reason. And you you caught everything you could to, you know, just to save some pain more than anything else. And it's changed. Now they, you know, they use that as an intelligent advantage to just block the middle of of the net and absorb, devour a lot of those puck back in the day would leave a well.

So, you know, that's a major, major difference. I look at that. I look at the way pads on these guys turn on their legs. Like, our pads didn't turn. So you gotta remember, although we cheated, I I think my last set of pads were 15 inches wide.

Was that before or after you backed the truck over, though?

That was well, I think at their widest, they were 15. Maybe 15 and a half. They were wide. And now what are they now? 11?

And Yeah.

But they're a lot taller than they

used to be for you. They're they're they're taller.

And they rotate, as you said.

Yeah. I mean, that just that. The idea that we I I might have had a pad that let say on average, was, I don't know, thirteen thirteen inches wide, something like that, 14 inches wide. When you went down on your knees, most of that was underneath you. So blocking area, you had maybe half of that were actually on the ice.

basically reduced the four foot tall net by almost a foot. There's there's really only only three feet high for a shooter to shoot at because of the way the gear works.

You might have seven inches, maybe less. And now every time those guys go down, they have the full 11 inches just go They basically reduced the four foot tall net by almost a foot. There's there's really only only three feet high for a shooter to shoot at because of the way the gear works. Right. It's just a fascinating, you know, and they play a system.

I, you know, did we have systems to a certain degree, but not not the same way they do now where it's it's just so much more intelligent now that, you know, they're they're getting their their save percentages buckled a little bit by the way the game is played in front of them. Now we were talking about that, you and I, the other day. And, you know, you still have to deal with the psychological effect of of the position. It's lonely. Not that much different now, but they they're smoked so much better prepared to handle that.

They're coached up mentally and physically on how to play the position. I I just find it fascinating. I I wish I could I wish I could transport a lot of what I know about it now and cover and have learned back to when I was playing. That would be a neat trick.

I was just gonna say you'd have to bring I'd be

in the other side of the hall of fame, man.

You'd also have but you'd also probably have to bring the equipment because to your point, like, it just didn't function in a way that would allow you to play the way they do. I mean, the the way the pad seals the ice and perf you know, gives them a sliding surface. I mean, even if you dropped on your I I think the best way to put it would be and I'm trying to remember if I got this word right. Hopefully, I do. But Mitch Korn used to talk about contortionability as something he looked for in goaltenders early in his goalie coaching career.

Like, the ability to actually contort so that you could seal the ice or you could get a pad flush. And now the the pads all do it for them.

Well, I I can remember this, you know, this goes way back. I I don't know whether a lot of people would even remember, but Vladislav Tretiak, when he was, you know, you go back to '72 and in the seventies, there there were rumors out that he had, you know, he had some kind of an operation in in the then Soviet Union on his knees so that he could he because he he had, like, a perfect butterfly so that he could flare his his legs out more. It's insane when you think about it now, but, you know, he was he was just a a machine of a goaltender that if you gave him today's equipment, I don't know if anybody would score on him. Like, he he would be too quick. He he he would stop everything, I think.

And so there was a, you know, there was a battle that went on with the with the gear as much as the the shooters back in the day and and the fear factor. I I just love the evolution of of the position. I I don't agree with all of how guys play now. Yep. You know, some of that sharp angles stuff just drives me bananas, but would would be wouldn't it be an interesting an interesting drill to to just switch equipment in eras?

Have have today's goaltenders have to put on the stuff we were back in the day and say, go have that I mean, immediately, they complain about sticks and how hard guys shoot. Guys shot hard back then too.

Yeah.

But, man, that would be that would be an interesting, that'd be great for TikTok or something.

It it would make a hell of a social media experiment, but I'd wanna make sure the insurance premiums were all paid up before I don't know. Asking these guys, you probably felt pucks through the pads. I mean, there are still a few guys that, you know, I think Jonas Hiller was the last one that sorta had some stuffing in there, and he would feel the puck through on the shin through the pad.

Oh,

yeah. That was routine for you guys back then. These guys hey. Hey. Listen.

The way the positions, the equipment now, it allows cowards like me to go out there at against guys that are good above my pay grade.

It's it's fantastic for me, but it's definitely changing. I gotta ask about you you drafted by the Oilers in '84, on the team in '88 when they win a cup, like, being a part of that Grant Fuhr, being around that. We talk about the mental side of the game, Daryl. Like, what lessons did you learn from there that even though the game has changed so much, like, we hear a lot about Grant and, you know, just you know, doesn't matter what the score was, clutch saves. Was that just innate, or were there things you could take away and learn from a guy like that that you could even, you know, share with the young kid today and they might learn something?

Yeah. He I mean, he was he was the most gifted guy at the position I've I've ever experienced. Even when you consider, like, practice was hell. Like, they didn't care that that group. Like, you you were in survival mode.

There was no goalie coach. You know, we didn't have a goalie coach. So in in practice, you have Grant in one and me at the other and it was, you know, it was as fast and as skilled as the game has ever has ever been with that group. Right? And they didn't they didn't care and and Grant never complained.

Guys would ring him off his head. You know, he didn't throw a tantrum. He didn't throw a stick. It was just sort of, yeah, you know, it comes with the territory. And I can remember, like, we'd go through practice.

He didn't give up that many goals to those guys. And, you know, they were not defensive goalie friendly drills that that the Oilers did in the eighties. I can tell you that. And he would he was just remarkable. It reflects his power and his demeanor.

It's true. Like like, he he didn't care at all about stats or anything. He just loved playing. He was he was really, really competitive. He used to drive me bananas though, like, do the skating drills at the end and he'd and he'd go, okay, Razor.

He'd say, you know, let's just go together. And then he'd take off. And I was just like, you jerk. You know? Because he wanted to win he wanted to win that too.

So, yeah, he was he was fascinating to to back up and and to work with. You know, he was a machine in there. He he was playing every single game. Consistency. He was he was an interesting cat.

You know, obviously one of the one of the best that ever played the position. He doesn't get the recognition because of numbers. You got to look beyond that. And I think a lot of us that understand the position can can do that. So, you know, I had the opportunity to to see that live and and upfront and, you know, that it's always gonna help you.

And then when I went with Hartford, I worked with Jacques Caron. That changed my my goaltending life. It was really really the first time I had a an everyday goalie coach. I was in Binghamton. And I'm telling you, it's the that was the best time.

I I felt like I had mastered what I was gonna master at the position because I I worked with him. And then, of course, he went on and and was in New Jersey, and he was with Marty Brodeur through all the through all the cup wins in that there. Does he So I

Does he not get enough credit, Daren? Like, that's a name that, you know, like, in the modern goalie coaching era, I I tend to lean towards the well, you know, a layer with Waugh and Benoit Allaire and and, you know, Mitch Korn and Ian Clark. We I keep hearing Caron's name come back. Has he got not get enough credit for the job he did? I I think people look at Marty being so playing a different way and being so instinctual.

Maybe maybe we've we've lost, at least from my lens, an appreciation for how much, he was a part of that as his goalie coach.

Yeah. It to me, I I mean, I've I've got my own personal history with him. So I'm gonna pump his tires more than anybody else and be biased. But even with Brodure, played such a hybrid game. You know, he was old school.

He was new school. He's stand up. He's butterfly. He was, you know, he was just a phenomenal phenomenal iconic net minder. But having a guy like Jacques there all the time, you know, he's there's an impact.

And I'm sure Brodeur would talk about it. I know from working with him what he did for me. And it was, you know, he was one of those guys where it wasn't like, these are my philosophies. You're going to do what you're gonna do what I tell you to do. His was more, okay.

Here are your strengths, and and we're gonna we're gonna emphasize those things. And when you're having an issue with this in that, he was always just so positive, I always so energetic. And and he just he transformed my my game.

Here are your strengths, and and we're gonna we're gonna emphasize those things. And when you're having an issue with this in that, he was always just so positive, I always so energetic. And and he just he transformed my my game. I I was I was a phenomenal I I this is gonna sound like bragging school, but I was a phenomenal goaltender in that time when I was playing in Binghamton and then played in Hartford after that because of him. Because of him.

I I love that. And and then I wasn't gonna ask this one, but the injury in Hartford is that was that And I still when I read about it, I was, like, trying to figure out how that's even possible to get a cut through the hand on a glove. But I guess, again, that's me knowing the modern glove and not the old one.

Yeah. It was the that was a a weird one. You know, I basically just skated over my finger. That was you know, I look at these blockers now, and they're they're medieval in their protection. Right.

Like, it's just like, it's just like chain mail and metal. You know? You know, it's tough to get anything through it. It's why they, you know, the modern goaltender can turn his stick hand to his body and it's it's like a blocker on the side of the blocker. Right.

And back in the back in the day, there were, you know, I I had my knuckles broken once on a deflected puck that went up underneath the blocker. I had my finger cut almost completely off my pointer finger on it by a skate. They sold it back on. You know, I had pins in it and everything through

that one. So that that was a tough one. You know, but the hamstring one was the worst one that, you know, we're playing in Winnipeg under the queen, middle of the game, and routine thing and things are rocking along with the Whalers and that. And Dave McElwain comes down the wing, takes a slap shot, kick out my right leg and boot the puck into the corner. And it felt like somebody stuck a rod straight up into my gluteals up the back of my leg.

And it it, you know, it tore the hamstring off the bone. There were strands still on it and that and that was pretty much I I was never the same after that. I didn't have surgery on it because there's gray area on whether you have surgery or you don't. The Whalers didn't. And within within a couple years of that, I was a broadcaster.

That's how that works.

Well, hey. I mean, as much as I would have loved to go over more of your career, it's probably a win for those of us that get to listen to you play or listen to you talk on the podcast because it is truly enjoyable. And, Daryl, like, I can't thank you enough. Your passion for the game and the position comes through every time I watch a Stars broadcast. Your knowledge does too, and I I think we're all just better for getting to hear you talk about the game.

And I can't thank you enough for spending this much time talking with our audience today. It's sincerely appreciated.

Well, I appreciate all of that. And, it it's I again, I've talked so much about myself over the last couple of weeks. I'm glad that I have hockey games where I can talk about other people because of all these interviews and what have you. But I am so pumped that I finally got on this one with you because I have massive respect for you and and the coverage you've given, not only to our position, but but to the game. So you're you're you're a needed follow, and this was very enjoyable to just talk shop.

Well, I appreciate that, Daryl. Thank you very much. I will say that if you as you shared those blocker stories, with me, the one thing I shared with Jake after interviewing him postgame the other night was please don't turn the blocker hand over like he did on Elias Pettersson anymore because I've had I I've got a few broken digits, and they all started on the blocker hand with a similar type of ex ex escapades, just not as hard as

they should. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes instinct kicks in, not preservation.

Yeah. Exactly. He goes back to our primal roots as goaltenders when the fear factor didn't matter. Yeah. Exactly.

Oh, Daryl, thank you so much for doing this. You bet. My pleasure. You know that.

You bet. My pleasure. You know that.

Outro

We geeked out a little bit on broadcasting at the beginning, then we got into the goaltending. But it was interesting how those two worlds coincide and intersect both from an analysis standpoint and why so many of the best, including Daryl, are former goaltenders, but also just, like, this is a guy who thinks about broadcasts the way a lot of goalies think about their game and the way it evolves and how to make it better for the fans. And so I really enjoyed that conversation. I selfishly always talk about let's get more cameras behind the net to show that view, but I hadn't really thought until he sort of pointed it out. Like, that becomes near impossible now that they have the netting in behind the end glass, and it's hard to get a camera in there safely and effectively.

So it's, you know, it's it's not as easy as I make it seem, but I really enjoyed that conversation about how we see the game, how the game is presented from a guy who does such a great job making it entertaining and informative for the fans of the Dallas Stars and and used to do so on national broadcast, Hockey Night in Canada, NBC, ABC. You know, heard him talk about versus. He's been on them all, and just does such an incredible job. So really nice to see him get honored by the Hockey Hall of Fame last weekend.

Woody, I have a funny feeling that you loved it, especially because he agreed with you about the end zone cameras. But I also think that if they can figure out how to customize the ads on the boards for my home market wherever a game is being broadcast, somebody can figure out eliminating that black netting. That's true. That's fair. In fact, I really hope they do.

Maybe maybe they'll be listening now. You know what'd be really cool? Because I didn't mind that you geeked out on broadcasting. I'm hoping there's some young goaltender listening to the show today in the car as they drive to the rink for their next game who enjoyed listening to that and is thinking to themselves, no. I might like to be a broadcaster one day.

Well, the first step to being a broadcaster is being a goalie. No coincidence. We had John Garrett on recently, like some of the best. I love listening to Daryl talk about Ken Dryden as well. Ken.

His influences. Yeah. It's just the way we see the game, the way we have to understand defensive zone structure, offensive tendencies as goaltenders, as well as our own position, I think lends itself quite nicely to be able being able to look at at it through the lens. And I think one of the parts I wanted to, you know, to to geek out a little bit on the broadcast stuff is because he's not just there talking about the game and understanding it from all those levels I just mentioned, but he really does think about how it's presented. Like, he, you you know, he takes a lot of pride in his work, and I think there's an important lesson there for people.

It doesn't matter what you're doing. Like, Daryl Reaugh is not a great broadcaster just because of his experiences as a goaltender right up to the National Hockey League, although that plays a role in it. He's a great broadcaster because he puts the work in into his craft and thinks about the way he presents things, the way things are presented to you as an audience. That's like, it it's not an accident. And so I think there's a lot of value in sort of understanding no matter what you're doing.

I think at times, I don't wanna go old old man on this yelling at clouds, but I feel like sometimes, you know, I see this even in my like, there's an element of just show up, and expectations that things will be easy, and and and the best work at it. It's not just an accident. Like, yes, there's a ton of knowledge that Daryl Reaugh brings to his broadcast, but he actively works at being better at his craft, and that's what makes him so good.

Well said. It was just really cool to listen to the two of you guys geeking out on, on the broadcasting game. I'd love the, you know, the discussion of seeing the game from the bird's eye view of the press box, which is even higher up than most fans in the nosebleeds sit for the most part.

Not just higher up, but more over top of it.

True. True. True. True. And I think a lot of us don't realize that about our view from home as well.

And then the difference in the speed of the game when you get down to ice level, I will never forget the first time I got to stand on a bench at an NHL practice, the speed of the game that was happening in front of me. I would strongly encourage anybody who gets a chance to get down to ice level for whatever they can, whether it's a warm up, whether it's show up for a junior hockey game, which is a little bit more accessible and get down to ice level and really appreciate what's happening out there. My other tip, of course, is to go to a junior game with your young goalie and stand behind the net and just try and track those pucks.

Like it. I like it. Hey. One last thing before we go this week. Hopefully, we'll bring we'll have Daren back driving the bus next week so you don't have to put up with as much of as as you did of me.

But you mentioned doctor Saul Miller in the parent segment. Mhmm. I don't want to give a quick congratulations. I was lucky enough to be there as he was inducted into the BC Sports Hall of Fame a couple weeks ago. A a great honor and a very well deserved honor for somebody who's helped so many athletes with the mental side of the game, beyond goaltending, all kinds of sports, Olympics, but still has clients in the National Hockey League that are NHL goaltenders.

So, if you haven't already listened to his episode with us, it is loaded with great advice. Really nice to see him honored and inducted into the BC Sports Hall of Fame. He's meant so much to so many athletes and continues to work with NHL goalies to this day. If you haven't already, make sure you check out that episode of the podcast. Congratulations, Saul.

Alright. That's it for us. Hopefully, like I said, next week, Daren Millard will rejoin. Although, given the nature of the NHL schedule, I make no promises. It is just a busy time for all.

We'll be back. In the meantime, keep the skates on the ice, I guess, in the butterfly. He's a he used to drive motorcycles. They always

Used to be keep your stick on the ice, but even

We don't do that.

That with Connor Hellebuck these days. We don't have to do that, do we?

Yeah. No. I know. I was just like, you know, we see a fellow

motorcyclist Keep your eyes on the puck.

Parkling and even, like, keep the wheels down. Like, I don't you know, this we need Daren back. Daren, come back. My sign offs suck. Till next week.

From Hutch, it's Woody on the InGoal Radio Podcast.