Dustin Schwartz: From Oilers Goalie Coach to Hockey Canada’s Director of Goaltending (Ep. 376)

Intro

Welcome. Welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast. You're listening to Kevin Woodley, which means Daren Millard is on assignment. Somewhere over North America on his way back from a road trip, the assignment is he's the e bug for the Vegas Golden Knights, and that carries a little bit of a busy schedule. With me today then is mister David Hutchison.

Hutch, how are you, buddy?

I'm awesome. I I don't know what was different about how the... You introed today, but you just sort of sounded like that 02:00 in the morning DJ, the sultry sounds of Kevin Woodley, one zero two point five FM in Vancouver.

I was trying not to be my normal, like, you know I

liked it.

I didn't wanna come right in with, like, the six seven six... You know, like, the crazy crazy Kevin. Yeah. I've... I I am a little mellow today, but I do have a cup of coffee.

So chances are my annoying voice is going to accelerate as it goes. There is lots to be excited about in this episode, my friend.

We have got featured guest presented by our friends at NHL Sense Arena. Our feature interview is Dustin Schwartz, former goaltending coach of the Edmonton Oilers, and now announced just in this past week, the new director of goaltending and national team goaltending coach for Hockey Canada. So, we know him here, is a guy that we've had on before. We've talked philosophy. We've talked about his background.

We've talked about a lot of Today, it's all about this new role. And I gotta say, applaud the new role. We can... We could we could sit here and pick nits and say about bloody time. I guess I just did.

But an effort, a conscious effort being made by Hockey Canada Day to frankly catch up to some of the other nations when it comes to building on a curriculum. We're gonna talk to Dustin, about how he sees that going in the early stages here. And I do think, you know, I remember when it was announced, we sort of put out a tweet. I can't remember if it was me or... And then InGoal re...

I think he... There are some things he's done behind the scenes beyond just being the OHL goaltending coach that make him very well suited for this. So we're gonna get into that in this episode. Of course, this is the InGoal Radio Podcast presented by our friends over at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley. Hockeyshop.com.

Hutch, we're gonna be over there tomorrow filming some more gear segments. All kinds of new stuff coming in. Got the Brian's Cryptic in stock. There's a new stick from Bauer dropping next week that we're gonna record and and and make sure we're ready to drop that when they do. A new special edition stick.

There's new sticks coming.

You announced this ahead of time like this. We're gonna have the paparazzi out there on Tuesday.

Oh, not to see me, my friend. They come in to see you behind the camera, have conversations and coffee. We'll call it coffee and... Coffee behind the camera with Hutch.

Yeah. There you go. Bring it on. Let's go. Sorry.

But you guys, if you show up, you have to bring the coffee, please.

Yes. And by the way, we record before the store opens. So if you if you do decide you wanna, like, flash mob us there, it'll have to be from outside in the street. We won't let you in. Thankfully, Cam and the crew opened the doors before, but they've got a whole bunch of new stuff.

And this is part of the beauty of The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Before we get to the gear review, let's just talk about what a great spot it is. All the latest, all the greatest, as well as everything that it replaces typically on sale At the hockey shop, Source for Sports, thehockeyshop.com, best of all, they've got a staff, whether it's Cam or any of the crew working there that understand the position, play the position, have a passion for the position, and will help you find the equipment to help you play it better. So make sure you check it out. Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley if you're blessed to be living on the Lower Mainland.

I say that despite the storm last night that knocked out power. Or if you're not lucky enough to be near us and you don't feel like coming up to make a trip like our friend Cam Matwiv does every once in a while from Los Angeles to buy his gear from the Hockey Shop Source for Sports, check them out like Daren does when he's around at the hockeyshop.com. What's going on in the world of goaltending this week, mister Hutchison?

There's a whole bunch of stuff going on in the goaltending world this week over at goalienews.com, which is probably the best place you can check out the goalie news every day now. Have you got any news about goalienews.com, Kevin?

I do. I do. Goalienews.com. And our goalie news section, which you can find if you're still just got that bookmark at ingoalmag.com, you'll always see goalie news up there as a... As something you can link to, the latest stories from around the league.

No better place to keep up to date than goalienews.com. And we have a sponsor now for goalienews.com and all the latest and greatest stories around the world of goaltending. And it just so happens to be a company that we've written about recently and talked about recently at Goalie News, and that is Trac Optics. You guys know me. I like to talk about stuff that I believe in, and this is a product that we're really excited to be partnered with.

You've heard me talk about wearing the goggles, the Trac optic goggles out on the ice and getting chirped. We wrote about it last week, even right up to the NHL with over 20 goalies wearing it now and seven teams investing in it. You hear the odd Batman. Well, it's worth it. Developed by a goalie coach that a lot of people have heard of and we've recently had on the podcast, Lyle Mast, they are a patented head tracking goggles that basically train your head and eyes to work together so you can access proper vision and react quicker.

It's effective, science backed, lots of pro and NHL goalies are using them regularly both on and off the ice. The whole philosophy comes down to this, can't stop what you can't see. If you can see it sooner, balance better, and move faster, you perform better. Trac Optics optimizes these functions by promoting head trajectory. With regular use, the goggles automate this quality vision while giving access to the body's ability to recruit muscles needed to move efficiently, critical in maintaining position on the puck and matching the speed of the game.

To dive further into all this, make sure you check them out. Tracoptics.vision. They go deep into the testimonial and science side of it on the website. It's genuinely one of the better pieces of training gear that we've used in terms of immediate effects and we've seen in goaltending development. Trac optics, access pucks, access your best game.

Check it out at tracoptics.vision. Okay. Speaking of seeing the

trying to track all the news in the goalie world.

Oh, there... There's there's a much better line for this sponsorship.

I know. I feel like we should just have a little competition. People could write in what's the best sort of slogan that can tie the two together because there have to be a lot of them. But the biggest news in goalie Hold on. What's that?

Do we give do we give do we give a set away? Should we do that? Let's do it. Let's give a set of TracOptics goggles away Okay. To whoever comes up with the best line binding.

Hutch may have just done it, tracking the goalie news. So that one's taken, folks. You gotta beat Hutch between till there's still more. Between goalie news and TracOptics goggles. Send us your best.

Hutch, give me the email address and use your best 2AM voice.

Podcast@ingoalmag.com.

He goes a little he goes a little deeper and sexier than I do. Mine's just more sorta, you know, chill, mellow, need a nap. Yeah. You're you're dude.

2AM R and B vibes.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Listen. There you go.

You've got the email address. Send us your best submission, how we should tag Trac Optics and their sponsorship of the Goalie News. Hey. Listen. We've worked with Lyle.

It's no secret. We've worked with Lyle for for years, talked about head trajectory for close to a decade. I do think the goggles, are something that helps people sort of feel it and see it. And so we're really proud to welcome them on as sponsors on a weekly basis here on the podcast and over on the website at goalannews.com. Welcome, guys.

Awesome. Thank you. So biggest news, I don't think is any surprise to anybody, I think, Kevin. How many goaltenders are there in the Hockey Hall of Fame now?

Oh, I didn't know you're gonna hit me with trivia on this one. I mean, I knew I knew there's gonna be two more, and, there's But if

you read our show notes if you read our show notes to get ready for the podcast, you'd know the answer, but don't cheat. Don't cheat.

I did read the my last scanning. I skipped Hofer for it. I... How did I miss this? I take pride in reading this stuff because I know that you grill Daren all the time for not reading it.

Gosh. Darn it. Okay, Hutch. You win.

Well, the important thing is that there's two more now than there were a couple of days ago. The answer is 46.

That includes the two of them.

Including the two, including the first Finnish goaltender to enter the Hockey Hall of Fame. Probably a surprise to those who are giant Miikka Kiprusoff fans. A little bit of a shock to me too. Belongs in there. Yeah.

Yeah. And, and then a certain guy we've been really lucky to spend a lot of time with, and that's Carey Price. So, congratulations to the two of them for their induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame. I guess it's officially, isn't it, tomorrow night, Monday night?

It's Monday night, so we're a little ahead of the curve here. But I will say

because I've seen photos of them getting rings and dropping pucks, so I don't even understand how it all comes together.

So it's a weekend? Let me fill you in because you you gave me the numbers. Let me fill you in on how it works. So it's a weekend long thing. On Friday, there's a media session.

They get their rings. They get introduced. They... We see their plaques for the first time. I believe on Saturday, they're...

Or maybe that's Saturday. Sorry. I'm a little loopy. That was yesterday. That was Saturday.

Sunday, I believe they're introduced ahead of a... Usually a Maple Leafs game because it's all happening in Toronto at the Hockey Hall

of Fame. Maple Leafs and Devils.

So ahead of the puck drop. They all get introduced at center ice. I think there might be ahead of that game or maybe it's on Monday. There's an alumni game that also takes part, which they don't have to take part in, but they can. And, obviously, we know Carey skates in Kelowna, as a forward now, not as a goaltender.

So maybe he'll pull a Roberto Luongo and go out there go out there and tuck a few. Pekka still goes between the pipes, one of the few retired guys that likes play the odd game. And then Monday night is when you have the formal, the big ceremony where they get to give their speeches and obviously have the people closest to them, in the stands celebrating with them and obviously afterwards as well. So that's the big night in terms of TV and the speeches because because those can be really strong as well. So looking forward to that.

To the point, not just two of the best goalies that we've had the privilege of covering, but two of the best people. You mentioned how... You know, being around Carey and getting to watch him. I remember I remember watching him tie kids skates at that date with Carey Price with Eli Wilson long before he had his own kids and saying to you afterwards, that guy's gonna be a really good dad. And we got to meet his dad, Jerry, and so you saw where it came from and the family values.

Pekka, we've had him on the podcast. As nice a guy as you will ever meet. Always generous with his time, supportive of his teammates. Just ask Juuse Saros how important Pekka Rinne has been to his career, almost like a bigger brother, almost like a de facto father figure. So two of the best people.

I have so much respect for these guys that I'm gonna save my rant on the fact there's 46 goalies and not a single goalie coach in the Hall of Fame to next week. We're not gonna go negative. We just want the positivity.

Okay. But that doesn't need to be brought up again. It does. It absolutely

Oh, it does. There's a rant coming, buddy. There's definitely a rant coming.

Yeah. You're not alone in this. You've had a lot of support. So that's, that's good. Hey.

There's another tie in to the game tonight. So the hall of fame game, I guess we can call it that, New Jersey in Toronto. And, as we're recording this, New Jersey's up by, by three. So this... Something could be happening tonight for Connor Hellebuyck.

Is that, like He's in the net. Five five and o?

Yeah. And it would also be his career three fifty.

Oh, that's a big number for goalies.

Yeah. It would have been... There's a... A part of me is like go Toronto, so it can happen in Winnipeg maybe, but, because that's the next game.

You're presuming he starts in Winnipeg?

Well, I... Really. Would you take it away from him the opportunity if you're the coach?

Well, I don't think the coach would take it away from him. What if he decides he doesn't want anything to do with it?

Really? You think? I think it's possible. Oh, wow. I I can't imagine having that feeling.

But

It'll be interesting. It'll be interesting. You know... Listen. I would put it this way.

I understand there will be bitter feelings about the exit, and the Winnipeg fans are as entertaining as anyone can be. Remember the chance when Jake Oettinger was there about our Olympic goalie being better? I can't even remember. I'm not even smart enough to come up with them. Like Yeah.

Yeah. They are so good. So good. And so it could be... It could get nasty.

I just hope that within that... And maybe it will take more time for this to come to fruition. It reminds me a little bit, and we went through this recently. Not... And listen.

The exit was not nearly as as extreme or one-sided with Quinn Hughes and Vancouver. But at least when there was the video tribute, there was also a lot of fans that stood and applauded and recognized the excellence that he did bring. It... This gap may be far too fresh for Winnipeg fans to do that, but I would hope there'd be in part some recognition of the excellence and the greatness that this guy delivered when he was a part of your team. As much as I understand the bitterness that he's no longer, and far be it from me, you pay your ticket, you do whatever the hell you wanna do, but I would hope there'd be a mix of that recognition as well.

Yeah. I I I hope so too, but at the same time, if the crowd gets on him, that really is a sign of respect if you think about it.

Yep. Well said. So Yep. Well said. Just keep it.

Like, I guess, I had, like, here in here in Vancouver, listen. Like, they're... What they call him quitter and all that, that's fine. But when they started chanting, he's not signing, like, to me, like, that... When you get creative like that, like, you know, you're kinda taking a shot at his new team.

I love that. Right? Like, that's what that's what sports fandom's all about. It's just

Or or Ottawa with the, f your podcast.

Yeah. That was that was good. Probably could have we could cleaned that one up a little bit, but I understand I understand the sentiment. Yep. Yep.

Yep. 100%. We had to clean it up here.

Hey. There's a couple of fun coincidences. I mean, speaking of three fifty for for Connor, a couple of fun coincidences in the news in the last week. And, and one which I don't think we've seen anybody else dig this one up, so I was pretty excited that we did dig this one up. When, Matt Tomkins and Laurent Broissoit won for the first time in two and a half years, the other night, was it November 1, I think, they won them?

Forgive me if I got that.

No. That sounds about right. Yeah. It was on the Sunday night, and then the

fourth was a one time. Had their first win in two and a half years. Their previous win two and a half years ago had been separated by only one day. So nine hundred and twenty eight days ago for one, nine twenty seven for the other, and then they both won their next game on on the same night. So a fun little coincidence.

Great to see Tompkins get in there as an Edmonton kid for his first start for the Oilers. And then, of course, we know what, Laurent's been through to try and get back to the National Hockey League through through injury and another one of the great people in the game. So happy for him that he's got back and won a few more since then.

Yeah. He's on a bit of a roll with the Ducks right now. I got a chance to see Laurent. He... They...

Obviously, they came through with the ducks shortly. Like, his next start, his second straight win of, I think, four now as we record this, four in a row, was against Vancouver and, you know, didn't get... Have a chance because it was a game day to get into it in-depth, but, you know, clearly, you know, recognize in a quick conversation how how... You know, just how much this meant to be getting this opportunity and to and to have success with it after everything he did and went through to come back. And with Matt Tomkins, exchanged a quick text message.

Congratulations as well. And, of course, Matt being one of the just classiest guys you'll meet, responded and just little quick back and forth about, you know, him too having... You know, going through this and the patience required. A guy who, you know, like, absolutely think can play at this level, put him in put him in in the right... You watch him in that game on the road, his first start, like, so...

Like, his movements look so crisp and controlled and just putting himself in the right spot all night. For a guy who hadn't played a long time either, like, he'd been... You know, he hadn't been starting for a while and gets thrown in there. I think it... If I'm not mistaken, was it illness for Jari or something along those lines?

Mhmm.

Just just occurred. Yeah.

Just out... Like, just outstanding. Or it might have been the second half of back to backs on that one. I can't remember the

I think there was illness for Jari,

I think. The illness was his start back in Edmonton. Regardless, either way, just great to see nice nugget you dug up there. I got another one that you dug up that I think, you know, I was also thinking was timely. Turk Broda's NHL debut.

Yeah. Yeah. Ninety years ago.

Ninety years ago, four day... Well, it was long before goalie day was created because it was 1936 and goalie day was, like, '59. Right? So... But, the same week that you met John Senser and found out that, Turk Broda was his inspiration, was the week that he made his debut, although ninety years ago on the calendar.

So that was a fun one. And and Turk Broda, of course, you and I weren't lucky enough to to watch him play. I I I probably came close.

I But I did not. But I... But for those that are... Who wonder who John Snesar is, we had him on the podcast last week, and make sure you check out ingoalmag.com because I have a really nice feature on him celebrating goalie day. He was the gentleman who is still playing at 93 years of age, who has been playing for over eighty years, and he got his start because when he sent in two cereal box tops from Quaker Oats and 25¢ to get his...

To get a signed NHL player photo back, they sent him a picture of Turk Broda signed. And I will say I did not get to see Turk play, but I did get to see that signed photo because eighty one years later, John Snesar still has it. You can see it at ingoalmag.com in the story, and I would encourage anyone who hasn't already to go check that story out. We've had a ton of great feedback on it. John here in Abbotsford playing for eighty one years, a true inspiration for all of us who love the position.

Awesome. And Turk Broda, of course, went on to, five Stanley Cups, a couple of Vézinas, and was the first NHL goalie to crack 300 wins.

There you go. There are more stats that I did not have, my friend. Oh, I love it.

That's what I love about the goalie news is the the act of putting it together every day is sending me down, as as I've said in previous weeks, some some rabbit holes, and I'm really enjoying it.

Okay. Speaking of records, this weekend goalie history.

Mhmm.

You gotta help us out with that one, Hutch. You you dig all these up. I'll let... I gotta let you take the credit here.

My very favorite interview of all the ones that, I've been lucky enough to do here on the podcast, of course, was in Glenn Hall's living room. Such a privilege to spend some time with him. And it was this week in Goalie history, 11/07/1962, that the the record that will never be broken ended, and that was his 502 game streak of consecutive starts in the National Hockey League. It, it's a little bit longer than that if you add in playoffs. I think five thirty something, five forty something.

And, and, of course, he tells us it actually goes back through the minors right through to junior hockey. So I don't know what the whole number would be. Absolutely remarkable and, and will never be broken. I think we can confidently say that.

Okay. I'm I'm gonna... We we get a new one as part of the goalie news. We're gonna actually give you some audio from something that's gonna be in the goalie news, but it isn't even there yet because this just happened today, and it was so cool that we felt we needed to include it in the podcast. How about Sergei Murashov?

Basically saying in the media postgame, I would like to send a message to Devin Cooley for the way he talks about what we all go through as goalies and what we're trying to do. Basically saying, you know what? Why let me paraphrase? Let's ski... Let the Pittsburgh Penguins fantastic young rookie speak for himself here.

But one thing I want to pass a media message to Daren Millard. I saw he he was really popular recently, and he... I think, like, most of the goal is going through something like he's talking about, but not a lot of who actually speaks aloud. So, like, I think just thank you to him for what what he's saying, and it helps... It it generally generally just helped me a little bit too.

So but, again, it's not the key to new... To the universe. There is a lot of work ahead and, just just keep going.

How good is that? How good is that?

It's awesome. I don't I don't know who to quote, and I feel really bad, but it was, somebody witty on x I noticed, later today. Was actually sharing a photo of Dustin Wolf's glove and and It's his blocker? Blocker. Right.

And it's a glove.

Okay. I I saw this on the weekend too. We should... This... I don't know if this was in golden years yet, but it should be.

If not, I should have sent it to you.

Well, you should have. It it was not in, and it it wasn't the fact that I... Because I don't remember what it said. Do you remember what it said? Do wanna just fill us in?

Oh, no. And I made a note of it, actually. I believe it was just just play don't think or something along

those lines. Along those lines. Anyway, the witty person on X who shared this just said, I wonder, and thinking of Murashov now, I wonder if Devin Cooley realizes how many little goalieings he has following him around. That... That's...

He's he's influencing a lot of people, and congratulations to him for that because it's for the good of the game.

I think it's... I think he's making... I I think he's... The influence is making it okay to talk about something that I think a lot of goalies already think about. Maybe not openly.

You know, I've had this conversation now with a couple of guys. Haven't had a lot of guys come through Vancouver since, but I've talked to a few. I talked to talk... I talked with Wilie Husto and and Dostal talking about this when they came through, and they're... They both kinda said, like, yeah.

Hey. Great that he's saying it. I don't think he's reinventing the wheel. Like, we're all in our own unique way trying to get to that state, and good on him for being so open about it. And I think when you see a young guy, a 20 year old like, a different country, of having it resonate with him as he's adjusting, you know, second or third year, Might just be a...

Is it second or two and a half years even in North America at all? Like, this kid's just come up and rocketed up the charts under all the pressure he's facing now in the NHL at a young age behind a team that frankly gives up a lot of great chances. You know, just sort of being grateful to it. I I... Just another new chapter in the story that is Devin Cooley, who, by the way, we probably came really close to getting on the podcast, but by the time me and him connected on some back and forth, he's already back.

Yeah. So that's... Hey. Like, that's a near miss that I will take because I'm just happy to have Devin Cooley healthy and back playing.

Absolutely. It's better for all of us.

Okay. So that was Sergei Murashov. I think we've gone through. Do we want do we want one more little audio clip, Hutch? Do we wanna make this a thing?

Do I wanna make me put you to work? We've had the... We've had Jacob Fowler asked about Carey Price a bunch while Carey Price asked about Jacob Fowler, and he's he's... He riffed a little bit at the Hall of Fame about what he loved about this young man.

I love watching him play. You know, he's he's got a really quiet game. You know, that's what I love about him. He's just fundamentally sound. Takes a certain type of personality and mentality to, you know, be a goaltender and being a goaltender in Montreal.

And I feel like both those guys in there right now, they both have that. It's a fun part in their career. Like, I'm so, like, envious of them that they are at this stage in their life where they're proving themselves and, you know, they have they have that opportunity to to take a good team and and go forward with it. I'm just... I'm excited for for both of them.

I just... Listen. We've already said Monday night, make sure you tune in to listen to Carey talk, which we had to have an excuse to have Carey talk in hockey and goaltending on the podcast, but there's a cautionary tale here. Man, are we heaping a ton of pressure on a young Jacob Fowler? Yeah.

As good as he is.

Yeah. And, look, he deserves it, and he's a good person. And if Carey sees the comparisons, then then that's fantastic.

Hey. Listen. Carey threw Dobes at like he wasn't... This doesn't need to be a Jacob versus Jakub.

Yeah. And isn't it great that the two of them certainly don't seem to see it that way that the relationship they have is is fabulous to see. Great example for everybody. But but just... I don't know.

It... It's great fun to do all these things, but, man, it's heaping a lot of pressure on a young man who is so early in his career. Let's let him be and and do his thing. I mean, I I think I was telling you I I saw similar sorts of excitement around Murashov at the beginning of the season. People just going gaga over his play.

Well deserved, well earned. But if I'm not wrong, his win last night was his first one in the National Hockey League. And, yeah, I just imagine the pressure that built up as everybody's heaping that on you. And there's a lot of responsibility as a goaltender already. So...

Yeah. I don't know. I I I don't wanna be the wet blanket on any of this because I I see the the strength in all of these guys. I I love it. I...

I'm excited by it, but then maybe we don't all need to jump on the bandwagon. Okay.

Dad. Yeah.

Sorry. Kids are trying Kids

are trying to have a little fun here,

and you're trying to the kids.

Okay. I got you. I got you. Listen. Speaking of somebody who is not young and doesn't handle pressure well at all, let's go to Cam.

Gear

Let's go to Cam over at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports and this week's Gear segment. Vaughn, ION Pro Knee Pads. Thought maybe I was going somewhere else because there is some new equipment coming out from Vaughn. True. Pads, glove.

No. Not true. Vaughn. Pads, gloves.

But I've got my eye on this particular part of these knee pads.

You had to one up me on that. I was just about to say how good is that dad pun? And you just, like, right on the eye on. Listen. Sorry.

Like, let's get rid of us. Let's go to Cam who's probably got even worse jokes as he explains why these knee pads are frankly worth their own gear segment. It's not often that we get new product in the fall. Well Well, it's No. It's just that

It's not often that we get new product in the fall. Well Well, it's No. It's just that

we're talking about it late. That's all.

Because you got so many other

new products.

Exactly. You saved this one for

us. I know.

A new knee pad from Vaughn. ION Pro. We've got it at three different sizing. We got senior, we got intermediate, and we even got some itty bitty ones for the kids. And the junior.

The junior category. Cam, there's a there's a feature on this. There's an extra piece here.

There's a new feature this year that I'm quite...

I I I really like it. It's applause to Vaughn for something new, something different, not just bringing out same old same old. They've made some adjustments. This extra flap. Yeah.

Little extra knee protection underneath the sort of main bottom knee piece. Well, that's hard to see. Hopefully, I'm doing a good job. Vanna White, I am not. But I can get the picture there.

You can probably get it on Cam's knee as well. Exactly. And I Walk me through this one. Yeah. And you

know what? It's like, let's start with that additional kneecap, like, right off the bat first.

That's the biggest call out for sure.

When you are dropping down into that butterfly, you just have a little bit of exposure because this piece is actually a little bit on the softer with one hard piece of plastic through the front of that kneecap. This gives that additional double coverage over top. So in case you did lean back or, like, you get caught in a weird scrambly situation, this is giving that additional coverage. I quite like that. That's a great addition.

It's not in the way. It's rounded around that knee too as well. So it's not like it's gonna be digging into you by any means or anything like that

as well. On the scale of knee pads, and I've got the intermediate here, and you can see folks that the intermediate also carries over that extra kneecap protection. The junior one, the smaller itty bitty one does not. It's a little bit more just traditional two piece. Correct.

On the scale of what the knee pad is. Pro kneecap pads. No. But like some are bulkier, some are thicker. Yes.

This one's a little more streamlined. Like, it still has the protection, though it's not super thick. Got the extra wrap down around the bottom. Hey. Let's be clear.

Underneath the knee.

There are knee pads that are more protective.

Right. But, like, it's still very protective. Here's what I'm trying to say. This is this... On that scale, it's towards the mobility.

You're not gonna notice it as much on your leg.

It's not the middle. Bulky. I would say we're in the middle. Okay. We're we're kind of a blend of both worlds.

Okay. So we found middle ground is

what we're found some middle ground.

Is it a happy middle ground? I would say it's a happy middle ground. You're quite happy with this product.

And so

are you. I am. I'm impressed. I like it. Good job, Vaughn.

So attaching for a garder belt

belt, again, because we always talk about knee pad sliding and shifting on you. Right.

But that said, I have found that four strap design and that bottom That extra strap below the knee, almost like just at the top of the front of the shin, holds it in.

Holding on to that calf, helping prevent some of that sliding that will happen as, you know, with any knee pad sort of thing. So there is always gonna be some shift. This knee pad is designed to shift a little bit. You need to have some of that movement. Otherwise, it won't work.

If you're cranking your knee pad as tight as it can go or wondering why it's sliding down on you, well, there's your answer. One other note, still a big believer, socks up and over top of your knee pads. That will stop that Velcro from catching and grabbing and ripping off, and it will also slip a little bit easier inside of that knee cradle as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do that.

It's just one extra step. We've established that I'm lazy. Right?

Yeah. And then you come back and all your knee cradle's all torn apart because of the Velcro and whatnot, but that's okay. Cam... It's personal preference and it's a free world. You can do what you want and what feels most comfortable to you.

I'm kind of a

big deal. I get new stuff all the time, so it's okay. Totally not true. Anyways, just had to

So he's talked about the three sizing, senior, intermediate, and junior. Being able to find that right fit for the as you're staging all the way through your career. If you wanna learn more about this knee pad, what options are there, why this knee pad might be right for you, 604-589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790.

Or just find it and buy it on the website. At thehockeyshop.com. This one create... This one goes across the border, doesn't it?

Yes. It sure does.

Oh, excellent. See? Good job, Vaughn. Vaughn, ION Pro. Check it out.

I like it. I like it. I hadn't seen them before. Little extra layer underneath there. Little little reinforcement.

I think it's a nice sort of balanced in between two side, like, not overly bulky, but still really protective. Like, it's a nice compromise, and it's a nice new product. And they've got it at the hockeyshop.com. You can go check it out. Lots of options.

Love it. They remind me of a lot of the big bulky pro ones, but not bulky.

Thinner. Yeah. And yet still more than enough protection.

Hey. You know, we both missed something in the show notes right at the beginning that we should have told everybody. If you're an InGoal member, if you like consuming your content on your phone, and you've got an Apple phone, I'm not quite ready for the the Android folks, head over to the App Store, download InGoal Magazine from the App Store. You can log in there, get all your content on your phone in a native app the way you like to see it. You can save things so that you can check them out offline when you're at the rink or wherever.

Get notifications when new things are published. You can customize what it is that we tell you that has just come out so that you're first on scene. So a lot of people really seem to enjoy working in an app, so we put one together. And once we get this thing nailed down, I'm sure before too long, we'll come out with one for the folks who love it on Chrome as well.

Okay. So Chrome. Android. That would be the Google Play Store. But right now, it's just at the Apple Store.

So anybody who's on an iOS platform, you could get this on a tablet, I would imagine, on an iPad.

We haven't... We have yet to optimize it for a tablet, but you absolutely can read it on a tablet. The one thing I will say is, I mean, you... Without being a member, you can get the same content in the app that you can get on our website, without being a member like the podcast and so on. You have to purchase your membership over on our website.

Soon, you'll be able to purchase it in the app. However, I'm not allowed to say it in the app that it's, it's gonna be more expensive in the app if you buy it through Apple. So you wanna come to our website and do it. And that's just because Apple takes a big chunk of every sale, but we're not allowed to say that in the app. We're not allowed to say, hey.

Go head over to

InGoal can say it here.

Sign up, but I may have said it here accidentally. And and... Yeah.

So We're not saying it in

the membership.

We're not saying it in the app. Folks, you can you can log in and buy your membership from ingoalmag.com and then download the app and log in there, and you'll be able to access everything. So there you go. I buried... What do you know? What do you know? Twenty seven years as a journalist, and I buried the lead.

I was right on with you, buddy.

I can't believe I missed that. Once again, just clearly not looking closely enough at the show notes. Okay. We've got the Gear Segment done. But, you

know, if looking closely, Vizual Edge will probably help you look closely at our ProReads.

Oh, there's a segue. We should put you in charge of this. How come when Daren goes away, I gotta do all the talking? That was pretty good.

Just keep saying I'll drive the bus. I'm like, okay. You you drive, buddy. I'll backseat drive.

Okay. ProReads presented by Vizual Edge. This week, we're gonna talk to Dustin Wolf. But before we get there, let's talk about our friends over at Vizual Edge. Every goalie knows that feeling.

The nights where the game feels slow, you're where tracking pucks clean, reading plays early, and nothing seems to surprise you. Then there are the other nights, the ones I know far too well, when you're reacting instead of anticipating, and you're just a split second behind everything. Most goalies try to solve that by getting more reps on the ice. Vizual Edge takes a different approach by training the visual and cognitive skills that help you process the game faster. From your laptop or tablet, you'll take a personalized assessment to identify where your visual game can improve.

Then you'll get a customized training plan that takes about fifteen minutes just three times a week, plus an open gym mode to get in as many extra exercises as you wish, and an eight minute warm up called game day mode to get your eyes and brain locked in for puck drop. It's a key part of the routine for NHL goalies like Jordan Binnington, Jeremy Swayman, Joseph Woll, Cam Talbot, and more. And now you can download it and use it yourself. Head over to vizualedge.com. That's vizual edge, vizualedge.com, and use the code I n g o a l, InGoal, all caps for 10%.

But if you're a member, if you are a member over at InGoal Magazine and you go to any ProReads, this one this week featuring Dustin Wolf, you will get an exclusive members only discount code. I can't share it here because then I'm giving it away. You gotta be a member. Gotta log in. Gotta be on the website or the new app to get it, and you will save 20 percent off a subscription to Vizual Edge.

Alright. This week, our ProRead presented by Vizual Edge is Dustin Wolf of the Calgary Flames. Talking about consistent rotational leads and how they remain key even on unexpected laterals. So, obviously, we have plays where we see it coming. We have time higher in the zone.

We anticipate it, and we can move across properly. What Dustin does in this one... And it's it's less about a situation where he... There's an anticipation element. He admits in this one.

He gets a little surprised by it. It's a lateral. I won't give you any more information than that. You can check it out and sort of figure it out when you watch it on on the website or on the new app, what some of the angles are, what some of the decision making process is. But his key, and he breaks this down very well, is that it doesn't matter whether you're in nine one one mode because you didn't expect the play to go there or whether it's something you anticipated.

There are certain keys in terms of how you move east west that will create the ideal rotation and give you your best chance on lateral plays. And Dustin breaks that all down in this week's ProReads presented by Vizual Edge. So, Hutch Yep. You you get a break this week. There's no quiz.

Daren's not here to answer incorrectly as he tends to do when I give him the quizzes, so we're just gonna leave it at that. This is a great video breakdown from Dustin on sort of his lateral keys, the lateral keys that make him one of the best young goalies in the game, and how they need to become staples so they apply, you know, not just when plays are predictable, when they get a little unpredictable as well.

Sounds great. When you when you work your fundamentals, when you have a structure to your game, and I think this does fit to his structure, then you can handle the... When the unexpected happens.

That... You know what that sounds like? The way you delivered that?

What's that?

Sounds like great parenting advice.

Oh, stop it.

Oh, look at this. Okay. So before I get to the people presenting this, can you give us a tease about what's in this week's parent segment?

I I call it the November wall. Just leave... That's a tease because you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Oh, well, that's a great tease. I... Just to say, I played my first game this week in six weeks or my first full high... Higher better skate in six weeks. I managed to slip in a charity appearance where I got lit up pretty good.

And let's just say I was not a November wall. It was it was... There was a crumbling wall. I'm not sure if you've had any walls fall in November, mister Gorbachev, but I would have been one of them. Okay.

So our friends over at Stop It Goaltending, they present the parent segment, which Hutch is about to deliver, and he's got me intrigued with the November wall. If you wanna become a wall in net, if you would like to have twenty five years of NHL goalie coaching experience at your fingertips, if you would like to tap into the parenting expertise that helped Joey Daccord reach the NHL, then you should get a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, the app. You get all the knowledge from Brian Daccord. He's been an NHL goalie coach, NHL goalie scout, and an NHL goalie director with two teams, including now with the Detroit Red Wings, as well as all the insights and expertise from his staff at Stop It, which includes a long list of veteran NCAA and minor pro coaches, all delivered in easy to digest chunks, including five short daily primers, weekly style analysis, and breakdown videos, as well as drills that you could take onto the ice with your team and coach. Plus, and this...

Not the best part, but it's one of the best parts. You get an InGoal subscription included. So check it out now at the App Store or Google Play and get the best of both worlds with a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, app, and a subscription to InGoal Magazine. Hutch.

Hutch.

Parent Playbook

Kevin, we're into November. Most minor hockey teams now, their season's a quarter. Gosh. In some some areas, maybe close to half done. Something tends to shift around now.

That excitement of a new team, new gear, new teammates, that's worn off. There's enough games that have been played that the results, they start to feel like a story. One goalie has a few more wins. Someone save percentage is sitting somewhere they don't like. And without anybody saying it out loud, the season starts to feel decided.

Who's having a good year? Who's struggling? It starts to feel as though the season story's already been written, but I'm here to tell you it hasn't. There's a lot of hockey left. Most of the season is still ahead.

Practices, tournaments, a playoff run, games nobody's even thinking about yet. There's a lot that's gonna happen between now and spring that nobody can see coming, good and bad. A goalie who looks stuck in November can look like a completely different player in February. What usually happens in between, it's pretty dull. The goalie keeps showing up.

Same routine, same work in practice, and for a while, nothing seems to change. That's the wall. Here's what the science says about it. Two researchers at UCLA, Nicholas, Soderstrom and Robert Bjork, reviewed decades of studies on how people learn. One of the big findings they point to is that real learning can be happening even when the performance isn't improving at all.

What you see on game day and what's actually being built are two different things. Other research suggests that some skill development happens between practices as the brain consolidates what was learned even during sleep. So a flat stretch round about November isn't necessarily wasted time. Sometimes the work is just settling in before it starts showing up in games. That same UCLA review also found that practice conditions where athletes struggle and make more mistakes can sometimes produce better long term learning than conditions where everything seems to go smoothly.

If that's true in practice, a tough month against good teams doesn't necessarily mean a goalie is falling behind either. They may be learning things that won't show up in the results for some time. Now, of course, that doesn't mean every plateau is productive or that we should simply ignore genuine problems. Sometimes a goalie needs more help, a different approach, maybe just a break, but there's a difference between responding to something our child actually needs and trying to make ourselves feel better about the results, and that's the hard part for us as parents. A flat stretch looks like a problem, and we as parents, of course, are wired to try and fix problems.

So we start shopping for solutions. It's more lessons. It's a different goalie coach, more ice, new gear, maybe a conversation with the head coach. All of it comes from a good place, but a lot of the time, we're not reacting to what our goalie needs. We're reacting to our own discomfort with the plateau.

So think about what we ask of our goalies in tough moments. If they give up a bad goal, what do we want? Reset. Get back to your routine. Don't chase the last one.

A tough first period? Stay patient. Trust your game. Keep competing. A great game?

Enjoy it, then show up to practice Tuesday and do the same work. Don't ride too high. Don't sink too low. We ask goalies to be the steadiest people in the building. Persistence and determination are a big part of what makes the position and not overreacting either way after a great night or an awful one might be the most important mental skill a goalie can have.

So we have to model it. If our goalie watches us panic over a three game stretch in November, what are they learning? They think that a flat stretch is an emergency, that you change everything when when results don't come. That's the opposite, though, of what we're trying to teach them in the crease. If instead they see us stay calm, still enjoying the games, still asking what they worked on rather than what the score was, they learn the lesson we actually want.

So we have to model it. If our goalie watches us panic over a three game stretch in November, what are they learning? They think that a flat stretch is an emergency, that you change everything when when results don't come. That's the opposite, though, of what we're trying to teach them in the crease. If instead they see us stay calm, still enjoying the games, still asking what they worked on rather than what the score was, they learn the lesson we actually want.

Keep going. Trust the process. Don't let a few games define your season. Oh, what about those stat lines? I think you know where I stand on save percentage anyway.

In minor hockey, that number tells us as much about the quality of chances a team gives up as it does about the goalie facing them, and it tells us almost nothing about whether that goalie is developing. So if your goalie is getting better and the numbers aren't showing it, that's not a contradiction. The numbers were never measuring the right thing. So this month, be the steady one. Keep the routine.

Be patient. Keep showing up. The season isn't decided, not even close. And if we want our goalies to learn how to handle the inevitable ups and downs of this position, November is a pretty good time to show them how.

Well said. Don't buy into the narratives. Narratives suck.

And be patient. And be patient. Yeah. Hang in there.

It... I I love... Like, it'd be one thing to have you preaching it to me. Mhmm. But when but when you put it in the context of this is what we're asking them to do Mhmm.

Like, it's exactly. I... I've had to have some of these reflections myself with my kid and playing sports recently. It's like the narratives that... Yes.

We can attach them ourselves. We attach narratives to things that don't actually mean what we think they mean. We get way too way too wrapped up in it. Okay. Maybe just me.

No. No. Oh my gosh.

We all do. Oh gosh. Narratives, like, don't get me started. You you you look at people scouting players and they they watch something happen and then you hear them say, oh, that kid's got a bad attitude or or that kid isn't really motivated or... Like, you don't have no idea what's going on between their ears.

But we build these narratives based on what we think we see happening on the ice. I'm off on a different tangent and a different rant, but, yeah, narratives. Narratives. Narratives. Narratives.

Narratives.

Yes. You know, there's a narrative that we've been following for a few years, and sometimes there are parts of it that are true. Sometimes they're built in, and that's involving Canadian goaltending as we celebrate Carey Price going into the Hockey Hall of Fame. And we don't actually have this show up on YouTube yet, but over my shoulder is a is a Price jersey, Canadian, as in Hockey Canada, not the Canadians. And we've got some changes.

And our featured guest, Dustin Schwartz, is gonna talk about some of those changes that he's a part of and how they are very much just getting started, and we'll get into the depths of them. But before we do, this feature interview, as every feature interview, is presented by our friends over at NHL Sense Arena, speaking of development, here's a tool you ought to try.

NHL Sense Arena 27 is live with two new modes for goalies. Goalie shootouts puts you in the crease against NHL shooters in a survive and advance challenge. I mean, shootouts. Everybody as a goalie loves those shootouts at the end of practice, so it's awesome to be able to get them now in NHL Sense Arena. But now you're facing NHL shooters, three from every team.

You've gotta save five of nine to beat them and move on. Otherwise, you're out. And there's opponents from every NHL team. There's also this new playmaker mode, which includes one for goalies where you get to read the attack as it unfolds in front of you. You have to make decisions based on a threat assessment and the different shooting options.

The first course covers tracking the puck, assessing shot threats, and finding the right position for the save. Goalies also get to earn their own hockey IQ score, in in the, in the new mode, and there are over 300 game scenarios. It gives real time feedback and offers several different difficulty levels for all skill levels. Former NHL goalie Andrew Raycroft says that Hockey IQ lets a goalie play faster without necessarily moving faster. That's good for all of us beer leaguers, I think, and calls Playmaker a tool for turning reads into instinct.

The update also includes new animations, new NHL rosters, a revamped menu. You really have to go check it all out today at sensearena.com. And when you order, use the code I g m 50 to save even more.

Turn reads into instinct. You know what that sounds like to me? Devin Cooley.

Oh, yes.

And an NHL Sense Arena, you know, user. Right? The unconscious mind. Like, that... The repetition and how it allows you to...

And we've had Cooley in ProReads, and how good is he in ProReads breaking down the game in his conscious mind? But then when he goes, I love this stuff. I love this stuff. Subconscious mind. Andrew Raycroft, that's a great line.

Reads into instinct. I love that. Okay. I need to get back on NHL Sense Arena, and I've been slacking a little bit. Haven't been playing much.

Given how my first game went, I gotta get back out there. But first, we need to get back to our old friend Dustin Schwartz who has a new job with Hockey Canada. The director of goaltending, head of goaltending is the official title, which, yes, includes evaluation, selection, development. Canada's national team program is gonna be working with the men, the women, and also involved in the Paralympic program. But I think the biggest thing to me is how this is gonna impact grassroots.

It's just not about goalie coaching at the elite level. It's about how we reestablish the way we train goaltenders. Don't have to change, but maybe look at it differently as they have in other countries to make sure we have more of them playing, more of them playing longer, and more of them playing to a higher level. So this week, we got a chance to catch up with Dustin Schwartz, who was just announced on Monday this came out, and we've got him this weekend amid a lot of text message and phone calls from people all over the goaltending world literally. Schwartz, he took time to catch up with us.

Feature Interview - Dustin Schwartz

Really excited to welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast in a new capacity as the head of goaltending and national teams for Canada, Dustin Schwartz. Dustin, how are you? Congrats on the new gig.

I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Yeah. It's, been a exciting opportunity here, so we're looking forward to getting a few things on the way and getting them all up and running. So we're on the right track.

I'm excited.

Now you... You've already started because you just got back. We're catching you basically hopping off a flight back in Edmonton off a flight from being in Ontario for the... Is it the world junior challenge? I always mess that one.

They call it the U17 world challenge. So there's essentially six teams in Sweden's there, Finland, The US, the Czechs, and then the two Canadian teams. So I was able to go down for the two weeks and hanging with the two young goalie coaches that had the Canadian teams. And, yeah, just kinda get my feet wet a little bit with who's involved in the organization and kinda everybody's role. So it was a good couple of weeks.

How much is the job? And and maybe we'll start by asking you how how the job has been defined to you. I would imagine this is something that will evolve over time, but, you know, maybe share what you... How you view this job, how it was explained to you, and how much of it is just that relationship building with goalie coaches across the country at the elite level for starters.

Yeah. I think it was kind of kind of started back in July. The conversations kinda started talking about just kind of what a job description looked like. Quite a vast job description, to be honest. It kind of encompasses a lot of different things as far as, you know you know, my interests and skill sets.

I think, you know, coaching is obviously one of them in the high performance program, but there's a lot more than that. There's, you know, there's stuff with regards to curriculum and goaltending certification and, you know, creating opportunities for networking with not just the high end coaches, but all the... You know, a lot of the coaches across the country. I'm looking at providing some resources accessible online, and then, obviously, when there's opportunity in person. There's some different things that we're trying to do across the country where we can get into a multitude of different locations and having, you know, people working with young young goaltenders, young athletes, in a variety of different locations and getting the right people in front of them.

And then, obviously, the high performance, which will include women's, men's, and para. So kinda covering all three aspects of of the high performance section, which is a good good opportunity for myself. I'm excited about it just to kinda create some synergies and connections in the goalie circles within Hockey Canada and hopefully build... Expand that out obviously into the CHL and and down on into grassroots.

That's a pretty big job description, my friend. There's a lot there.

It is. It is. But reality is, like, you know, I've had conversations with Misha Donskov and others and, you know, there are some big stones that, you know, as you should put it, you gotta just roll those down the hill first kind of thing and thought that was a good analogy. So there's some big kind of things that I'd like to check the boxes on. And then as it goes, like you said, it's probably going to evolve into a variety of different, you know, responsibilities.

But, ultimately, right now, there's a there's a few things on my checklist that are at the forefront and probably need the most time and energy at this point in time. I I think, honestly, that it's gonna be, you know, over a period of time. I don't think it's obviously a one year thing. It's gonna have to take some time to to kinda build out to where we get it to the point where we're happy with it.

Now there was curriculum built in the past. There are coaching certification programs in place. Is it a matter of sort of examining them, expanding them? Not to say there's anything necessarily wrong with them, or is it just about taking what what we have and making sure more people get access to it? It's one of the things we hear the most, Dustin, from goalie coaches at the volunteer level that wanna learn more is how tough it is to access that entry level goalie coaching certification program compared to, say, The United States where it's online.

Is... Are those some of the types of things you're looking at?

For sure.

Or do you need to re... Rebuild the whole thing?

No. It's not a rebuild the whole thing. There's good stuff that's been put in place. I think there may be... There's a tweak here or there that that you make over the...

What I would like to do at the end of the day is make resources accessible to the grassroots level through the branches and and so on and so forth.

You know, your time spent looking at it. I've looked at a bunch of that stuff already and and kind of have an idea as to, you know, maybe some of the small tweaks that that I would see us making. What I would like to do at the end of the day is make resources accessible to the grassroots level through the branches and and so on and so forth. I think there's opportunity to really provide some good quality stuff, whether it be through video, whether it be through, you know, just simply drill sharing, whether it be through creating a monthly Zoom call where people can jump on and and maybe I mediate and bring on a guest guest host or speaker or whatever. There's a variety of ways that I've kinda thought about doing, you know, resource distribution for lack of a better term.

And I think there's there's people within Hockey Canada already that are doing some good stuff with that. We just have to get that all aligned on the goalie side as much as the skill side and so on and so forth. So it's it's in the works. And I think once we can kinda get it out to more people and into those grassroots hands, you'll you'll have some better, you know, knowledge and some opportunity to to coach with some, you know, some resources that have been approved.

Is is... And is that the... Like, one of the... Like, I know for for example, and I'm not... I don't mean to compare where Canada's at starting this position compared to where other countries are at, but we've seen some of the other models.

And when I think of, say, Sweden, for example, I think of, you know, their mandate wasn't to start by creating a whole bunch of good goalies. The mandate was to create more good goalie coaches right down to the volunteer level, and then ultimately, you would get more good goalies as a result of that. Is there... You know, USA's kind of echoed some of the same things. Is there an element of that to this process?

Yeah. I think the the the the countries that are very different. Obviously, the size of Canada versus some of the others is very... You know, it does create a challenge in itself. I think helping coaches to get better is always something that I've always believed in.

I've always been one that wants to share my stuff with anybody that wants to share with me. I think that's how you get better. And and I... Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what level, you know, whether it's somebody coming up coaching you 11 or somebody that's coaching you 15 or whatever the the age group is, like, I think sharing is, is such a valuable thing as far as how we develop as coaches. So I do agree with that.

I think that the opportunity will present itself. There's some things that... I I mean, you know, my past where I've worked with Western Hockey League and, you know, in a very developmental and mentorship type role. And that's something that I would obviously like to see, you know, work through within Hockey Canada and trying to work through branches and different things like that to reach out to the masses as much as possible. But I do I do strongly believe in that.

I think it's... You have to have coaches that are constantly learning and constantly getting better. I mean, you you... I look when I first started coaching and how much the the position has changed while you've had to adapt with the times. Right?

And I think that's important that the people that are coaching the grassroots level on a consistent basis have access to that, and we're there to support, you know, with coach resources, but also with mentorship and coach programs in place.

That's funny because you mentioned that, and it's one of the reasons I said as soon as I saw the announcement that you were perfectly suited for this was because of the work you've done. I think of, you know, the symposium that we were a part of at InGoal through Hockey Canada and the Western Hockey League. I know your work. So maybe can you expand and... Because I do think a lot of people just saw you as the Edmonton Oilers goalie coach, and they didn't realize how much of this type of work you were already doing.

Can you share some of that so people understand? And when I said that, I've... You know, I don't think people realize just how extensive some of the other parts of your background were. Even while carrying the title of Oilers goalie coach, you were doing a lot of this work on the side, sort of the side of your desk, so to speak, because of that belief and that desire to help other goalie coaches coming up underneath you.

For sure. Yeah. That was something that I've... Like, I kinda mentioned already. Like, I I have a passion for the position and for the game.

And, you know, as a young coach coming up myself, I had some some great mentors, whether they were head coaches or goalie coaches. Had people in my corner that helped me to understand the position in the game better. I always felt that that's an obligation of anybody that coaches at a higher level is to find ways to provide and give back a little bit, whether that be specifically to the athletes or whether that's to the coaches. And, you know, my teaching background kind of probably gives me a little bit of insight into, you know, the mentorship side of things, whether it be, you know, coming up through a school system as a a student teacher, you can work your way in. Eventually, you're in your own classroom.

And I kinda look at it from a similar perspective is that, you know, you work your way up as a young coach and you find your way. And if you're passionate about it and you keep working, doors open, and you're guaranteed along the way you've had people that have helped you to get there. So I've always believed in that. So my work with the Western Hockey League was very similar to that model. I had a board of advisors with the Western Hockey League that was super supportive in all the initiatives that we did in a couple of years or two, three years that we were able to do it, which led to ultimately doing the online symposium that you guys were a part of.

And I really felt that we had a strong group of people pushing in the right direction. And then, obviously, COVID hit and and things ended up shutting down. So there's some experiences that I've had, you know, with that. I've done some stuff with OHA and the academy, helping the goalie coaches along the way with, you know, curriculum resource building, development planning, you know, practice and yearly planning. So I've done a lot of that stuff, you know, on in my on my own time away from the Oilers when I was coaching there.

And I think it's, you know, something now I look back at it, and those experiences were invaluable knowing what I'm doing now. So, you know, you you asked the question at the beginning about, you know, what my job description is. It's... It... A lot of that stuff will be good experience from my past to be able to help out with what I'd like to see moving forward.

Man, you touched on it there. I was gonna mention the fact... I was gonna ask that how important is that you come from an education background, University of Alberta degree in education and and physical education. It it feels like even on the physical education side, Dusty, like, beyond goal tending and how we teach it, the concepts, you know, of, physical literacy and do they extend. You know?

And I don't know, you know, where this mandate will be or or how... You know, whether you'll be a part of these conversations or lead them, but, you know, the questions that are sort of being asked in other nations about, you know, how soon is too soon to just be a goalie.

Yeah.

Should a national body, you know, have a voice in that, or or do you leave it to the regions? Like, there's a lot of sort of bigger picture questions that I'm sure I'm sure parents would have some feedback on that might not all be positive. Like, this is part of the battle that we've heard other other people in your position go through. Mhmm. Do you look at it from that standpoint?

You know, like, are we building the best athletes if they're only playing one position from the age of seven? Bigger picture questions like that.

Mhmm. Yeah. And that's definitely... It's already come up in a few conversations that I've had. And reality is, I think, you know, at some point in time in any sport, whether you're playing baseball or whatever it might be, you become specialized.

You know, if you're a shortstop in baseball, by the time you're probably... You're 13, you're specialized into a position. Doesn't mean you don't have the skill sets to play other positions, but you kinda become specialized in that area. I think hockey is much the same way. Like, you become specialized in your area of kind of preference and where you put your time in.

I think there's a window of time where being an athlete and playing multiple sports is super valuable. I just... I've always believed in that. I think there's opportunity to grow other disciplines within your game. Sometimes it's, you know, dealing with the adversity side of it, standing on a mound and pitching a baseball in front of a group of fans, and people are, you know, looking just to you much like playing the goalie position.

So I think there is some value to playing other sports and and doing other things just because there's things that you learn from that that helps you to be better in your chosen sport or your specialization. So, I mean, I'm all for it, and I would encourage that. As far as the specialization goes, I think, you know, it comes down to the individual. I think... I don't know if you can set a specific age for it per se, but I think there's there's a there's a time and place where you do have to make that transition to the goalie, and you have to get yourself trained on it.

And that's... You know, obviously, at this point in time, parents and coaches have made those decisions. So, you know, we have to maybe have a look at that down the road here.

One of the things that, and James Myrtle did an excellent piece in the athletics sort of breaking this news, about the job and the changes. And one of the things that I I can't remember was you or Scott Salmon was talking about with some of the stigmas around the position. I know that, you know, this is something I've talked with Steve Thompson in The USA about as well. Enrollment maybe being a little flat compared to growth of players. You know, I hear this anecdotally, things we never used to hear ten years ago, I don't think, but, like, hey.

Areas in small, you know, smaller towns, smaller areas where it's like, wow. We need to find a goalie. We're having trouble getting enough goalies. You know, we're watching Carey Price who probably was the last guy who, you know, inspired a nation, so to speak, to wanna play the position. We're far removed from the the sort of Quebec area where...

Era where everybody wanted to be a goalie. How do we how do we get back there? How do we get back to sort of making more kids wanna play this position as opposed to their parents being scared

of it? Well, I don't think there's one specific answer, you know, right this moment. I think that's obviously some I I have to dig into a little bit more. I think there's things that come to mind as to maybe why there's been a a a decrease in enrollment. I mean, you bring up a good a really good point with...

When you have somebody like Carey Price representing your country and putting the Maple Leaf on, it... It's kinda like Blue Jay fever. Right? Everybody wants to play baseball, and the Jays are making the World Series. And I think the same can said about watching, you know, athletes like Carey Price play.

They they inspired a lot of athletes to play goal. I think that's one. Two, I think cost plays a little bit of a factor. I think the... We all see the dollar signs that go in with the goalie gear, and and then you start to see the cost.

And I know training as a as a forward or defenseman is expensive as well, but you start getting private goalie sessions at whatever age the parents decide to do them by... That starts to add up on the dollars and cents. So I think cost is a factor a little bit, you know, especially in a lot of smaller communities. Sometimes access to, you know, community goalie gear isn't always there. I knew when I grew up as a kid and first started playing the position, my parents didn't have the finances to just go and buy me brand new goalie gear.

So you wore the community minor hockey stuff. You know? So that was kinda how I got my start, and I think, you know, my generation went through that. But things have changed, and, you know, minor hockey systems aren't supplying goalie gear. Don't think some of them maybe still are, but that definitely is another thing.

I know there are a lot of the minor hockey systems right now are rotating through goalies to find out who wants to play the position. And oftentimes, you know, they don't have enough people that are interested. And so I think that's our, you know, a bit of our responsibility just to try and find ways to to get the passion and the drive up to get people to to wanna play the role.

Because it is a great position. What do you love most about it after all these years, buddy? Playing it, coaching it, now now, you know, in this position at 47. I know you still have the passion for it as much as you like to snipe your guys Mhmm.

With that shot of yours. What what still what still excites you about this position?

I think it's it's such a game changer position. Like, I... You know, there's game changers and break... Breakers in hockey with guys like Connor and stuff like that, but I think it's a position where you you you can really steal games and be kinda like the game changer. And it's kinda like the pitcher in baseball, the quarterback in football.

I think it's it's such a game changer position. Like, I... You know, there's game changers and break... Breakers in hockey with guys like Connor and stuff like that, but I think it's a position where you you you can really steal games and be kinda like the game changer. And it's kinda like the pitcher in baseball, the quarterback in football.

I think those are probably always my two comparables when it comes to sport. Like, you're kinda... You're on your own a little bit. You kinda have your... A different skill set than a lot of the players that are on your team, and then you can change games.

I think it... That... That's probably the most exciting thing. And I I still love those moments as a player where, you know, you played your best and were able to, you know, take a game for your team and the opportunities suggest to be that person that's standing in the net. And like they say, you know, you're the last line of defense, and I think that that's a compliment.

You know? So we we have a special position. It's something that I think is... Needs to be just understood a little bit better when it comes to the grassroots as far as, like, getting those athletes in and wanting to play the position. And that's kinda what we gotta try and find too is a lot of times the the best athletes, you know, are now playing in other positions.

So how do we get the best athletes to wanna be the goalies? You know? And that's something that I think is gonna be a challenge, and, we can can find some of those athletes who wanna jump in and take that chance at a young age.

Yeah. Just show them the cool masks.

Yeah. I know. The gear the gear is still selling the sales pitch for the customer's money.

Yeah. Absolutely. Agree with that, buddy. I agree with that. I do think there's one of the...

I mean, you know, a little aside from me, it's it's amazing to me how... And I understand that this is just human nature to some extent, so parents always wanna buy the latest, the greatest, the most expensive, the highest end. Probably exists in all sports. Right? You probably see it with your kids playing baseball, like Mhmm.

You know, the newest bat, then all the all... Like, it exists everywhere. But, man, the one thing I would say is as expensive as gear has become, the reality is when we look, in our gear reviews at the second price point equipment. Like, you don't have to buy the pro level stuff.

That's second price bring that up, Kevin. Like, there... Now you start looking. There's a... You go into some of the all sports replays or whatever you have in your communities.

Like, there... There's a lot of good stuff in there, you know, and stuff that is, you know, gonna cost half the price because it's been used for a season or two or whatever it's been used, then you can find some good stuff. You can kinda make it, you know, clean it up. And some of it's in really good shape, and it's a great starting point, especially, you know, if the son or daughter is just kinda getting into the position and wants to give it a go instead of dropping, you 4 to $6 on stuff, you can probably get in for a lot less than that. So, yeah, that...

That's a fantastic point.

Yeah. And that's that's just the second hand stuff. There's actually new stuff. There's a... Like, the companies, the quality of the second tier price point, like, the the level below pro

Mhmm.

Is actually as good as the pro gear was just three or four years ago. It's incredible. And I do think that we try and stress that on our gear reviews. Like, hey. Listen.

Not everybody needs the... Like you said, 5 or $6,000. Like, the pads are literally half the price on the second price point, and some of these companies even have custom options. It's... It really has gotten to the point where, you know, especially at the younger and even to the teens, we've had, you know, guys play major bantam in second price point gear and get two seasons out of it.

So, I think that's one thing that we try and stress. And and for parents, like, it doesn't have to be the most expensive thing in the store, and it's still gonna perform at a very, very high level. I'm I'm curious. Don't wanna take it too far down that path. You and I can talk later about some of those examples.

But other... Have you talked to some of the guys that are doing this job, have done this job from other countries? The Steve Thompson's of the world, you know, the Stefan Lathes who's taken over from Thomas Magnuson in in Sweden. Has there been a reach out from from others around the world, about this role and about their experiences in

I've had, you know, I've had multiple reach outs from, you know, the Goalie community. It's been actually overwhelming just in number of text messages and emails and stuff. So just trying to keep up and get back. I mean, it was only announced three days ago or whatever. So, yeah, all that stuff is stuff that's in the works.

You know, I'd like to get a a board of advisers put together, which I have some names that I highly respect and how are, you know, Stanley Cup champions, Olympic gold medalist, people that have an understanding of the position and would be great resources for a lot of the stuff we just talked about. It's not a one person job. I mean, it's it's a community effort, and there's so many good minds and so many good people in the game that I'm never ever gonna stop, you know, helping myself to help others by using the resources that are around us. And I think that that's something that I am in the works right now, and we'll just have to get on. I think I gotta make some of those phone calls this week, And, hopefully, we get that advisory group put together, and then we can kinda start to charge ahead as we go and and reach out to some of the other countries.

You know, there's been lots, like I say, lots of contact over the last little bit, and and then we'll, kinda hopefully be able to circumvent, you know, some of the challenges we're having and kinda work through it together as a group.

Love it. Love it. It is the goalie union indeed. It's international. It's worldwide.

Last one for me. What are you seeing? I mean, the game keeps changing real fast. Like you said, constantly evolving, and you'll have to constantly evolve with it in terms of what the foundations are. Maybe the foundations don't shift for goalies.

But these past couple of years, we're watching save percentage drop or watching the skill go up in the National Hockey League, and I'm assuming at all levels below it.

Mhmm.

Teams not wasting shots. Goalies having to learn that, you know, the mental struggle of sub 900 is fine now. Mhmm. Because the reality is the, you know, the the environment's never been harder. What kind of things are you seeing?

Like, what are the trends around the game that you have your eye on most closely taking on this role at the beginning?

Well, there's... It's funny to ask because I just had this conversation with one of the u seventeen coaches the other day. We're just talking about it. And, you know, there's kinda a few things that kinda stand out to me. Like, even within the last probably three or four years, like, the game used to be very a to b.

You watch the Stanley Cup playoffs last year, and it was very a to b to c. Players are so skilled. They they make those... The next play, if you will. So as a result, that puts a lot of strain on the goaltender to be able to hold their edges, make their their proper movements, have good reads, all those sorts of things.

So I think that's one area where the game's changed is it's not, like I said, a to b and then a shot. It's an a to b and then, oh, man, they're moving to puck again for a c. Right? So I think that's one thing that I've really noticed has changed over the last few years. I think the use of analytics has changed quite a bit, which you start looking at inner slot stuff and things like that.

Well, offensively, players are more aware of it as well. So they're trying to get to those... And not that we didn't know it before, but when you start adding numbers to it and you start seeing the value of, you know, creating on that inner slot, whether it'd be laterally, whether it'd be working for the middle off rushes, whatever it is, I think that's really become a challenge for for our goaltenders in the save percentage and being able to manage some of those high danger chances. I think that's that's been a big thing. I think the video over the last number of years, I mean, we've been using it for a long time, but pre scouts continue to improve.

But I think those those things helped offensive attack and they're, you know, picking apart defenses and they're picking apart goaltenders and stuff like that. So it's up to us to stay current, stay on top of stuff, see what the shooter is doing, understand the offensive side of the game as much as we understand the goalie position, and then give ourselves the best chance to be able to combat some of those tactics and and skill sets that the players are bringing. So, I mean, is it ever gonna get back to, you know, a nine thirty save percentage, you know, consistently up in the nine twenties? Maybe not, but I think we can find ways to just be a little bit more dynamic with all aspects of our position in order to be able to tackle some of the things that, the high end skill forwards are throwing at us.

Well said. Well said. I'm gonna let you go. I did have one about a symposium. I read that that was part of what you, what you've got organized, but I know you have so much on your plate.

I'll I'll leave that one with, hey. We were involved in the last one. You know where to get me if you, if you want us to be involved in the next one because you know we'd love to be a part of it. I love the way you helped organize that one, and I thought it brought a lot of value to a lot of people. So first and foremost, congratulations on the job.

I know you're gonna knock this out of the park, and thank you amidst all of those calls and amidst all of the callbacks you have to make for making us one of them early so we could get you on the InGoal Radio Podcast.

Appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you so much for your support, and, yeah, we'll be staying in touch. I'm sure here.

Thanks, Dusty. Take care.

Hey. Talk to you soon.

Outro

I enjoyed that interview. Again, thanks to Dustin for taking the time to catch up with us. Like I said, he he was literally on a flight from Toronto back to Edmonton today, landed, caught up with us for half an hour, and I know had a bunch of text messages and phone calls still coming in. Obviously, when something as big as this is announced, there's a lot of people trying to get ahold of you. He's got some ideas.

I love that line, which he admittedly said he borrowed about pushing the big rocks downhill first, but there are a lot of exciting things on the horizon. And, I said it in the interview. I've said this in some of my other media hits. I think a lot of people just look at him as the goaltending coach of the Edmonton Oilers and aren't aware of all the other things he did, his involvement with symposium, the work he did in a mentorship role, with the WHL. I know he did some stuff for the OHA with goalie coaches there at multiple levels.

Like, he... You know, when it... If this job is about not just not just coaching, but consensus building, mentoring, helping create more coaches, giving them tools and resources, I think he's just perfectly suited for this. So, best of luck to him moving forward. I'm excited to see where this goes.

There are a lot of other programs around the world and that that are ahead of Canada, frankly, at this point. But as he said, you know, he's eager to learn from those people as well and and see what he can bring to to this, you you know, fast evolving program. It has lots of components already built in. He's not looking to dismiss them all, but incorporate them into something that maybe has a better chance of building.

I mean, it's a good position to be in if you think about it. The fact that there are other countries who've already pioneered the process, who've been through both the ups and the downs of creating a national program like this. We know the people behind some of those programs and how good they are and how generous they are. So Dusty certainly isn't gonna be off on his own trying to, you know, build something from scratch. And I think as long as he gets the support that he needs from Hockey Canada, we're in for a good ride here in a really good program over the next couple of years, developing out of all this work.

And listen. That support will be important. It sounds like he's got it out of the gate. And listen. To me, it's just...

I could rip them for not having anyone in this position for close to a decade since Fred Brathwaite left. Literally, not a single person whose full time job was dedicated to goaltending in this country on the Hockey Canada staff up until this hiring. But I guess maybe I just did. But rather than focus on that, let's let's celebrate the fact that they do have somebody. And like I said, somebody who I think is uniquely qualified, and I know is gonna bring a lot of hard work and passion to this project.

I can't wait to see how it plays out. And as we tease, like you said, we... We've been at the USA Hockey Ones. We've we've had the pleasure of getting to know Steve Thompson, Thomas Magnuson in, in in Sweden, and now, Stefan Lathes, who is... Who has taken over for him in that role.

Like, these are great... Not just great goaltending minds, but also great people who, you know, heard Dustin talk about sharing and and not trying to just hoard things internally. There's a real openness here, and and and it's kinda cool to see Canada step up, on that stage here. And let's see what happens and see what follows is we, you know, we talked about it with Carey going into the hall of fame. You know, you could use another guy like that because when when Pricer was at his best in the NHL, which is pretty much his whole time in the NHL, he was the guy everybody looked up to.

There are some great goaltenders out there that happen to share the same passport as me as Canadians, but I don't think we've gotten to that point where it inspires... You know, they're inspiring the next generation to wanna be them.

Yeah. I wonder. I wonder. You, it makes sense to look at it from that perspective and say, oh, do do we have a guy with the same passport that inspires us as Canadians to

Do we need it?

Goal. Do we need it? Like, Jacob Fowler might be an American, but he's playing for the Montreal Canadiens. I mean, there's a guy who could inspire some people who's

talking about Like, the way he plays don't think it matters. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's a fair that's a fair point.

You know? Connor Hellebuyck when he was in Winnipeg, not to bring that for for our Winnipeg fans back, but, absolutely, it's a good point. And and, you know, I'm trying to think of here in Vancouver. Roberto Luongo is obviously Canadian when he was here. I know there's a lot of goalies who play because of him, but you're right.

Maybe it doesn't happen. Devon Levi in Edmonton right now off to off to a good start, to to to his Oiler stint. So, anyways, fascinating to see where it goes. Congrats again to Dustin Schwartz on the gig. Congrats to Hockey Canada for getting the resources together to have someone in the gig, and thank you to Dustin for give...

Taking the time to talk with us today. Hutch, I think that's it, buddy. We wrapped up.

Time wrap her up.

Time to wrap her up, except we should remind them that there is an app with our name on it that they can go get from the App Store. I guess that's

Rap about the app.

Tell them more about it real quick. I'm putting you on the spot.

IOS app. Go to the Apple App Store. Download InGoal Magazine. You can get all the great InGoal content right there on your phone in a format you love and are used to. You can save things so that you can see them offline.

You can get notifications from us. So as soon as the newest ProRead is out, you can go check it out. Everything you've come to, expect from ingoalmag.com is now in the palm of your hand. We'll follow it up with Android soon.

And use your login from the website to get into the app?

Sorry. That's exactly right. You, need to be an InGoal member to see all of the content just like you do on our website. There is some free content available. But, yeah, go purchase your membership over at ingoalmag.com, and then you've got all you need to log in on your phone.

Love it. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir, for all the work that goes into creating something like that.

Pleasure. I I'm I'm excited dreaming of what I can do with that new iPhone Duo. Have you seen that? The foldy one?

The foldy one. The only foldy one that I know of around here is me when I'm in the net. I'm definitely a foldy one. I've seen the foldy one. I we might be able

to do some fun stuff with it. I'm not quite sure yet, but we'll figure it out.

You're you're you're trying to get the company to buy you a new phone.

I don't know if I could fit it in my pocket. It's

kinda fat. Research. Research, Hutch.

We'll work on this one first. We'll work on this one first.

That's okay. Don't don't don't get me started on fat phones and phones that don't fit in pockets. Then we have to tell the story of how I dropped my phone in the water in Hawaii two years ago and ultimately had to buy an iPhone Max because it's all they had available for sale on the island. And now I

carry a he could get was the top of the line.

Now I carry a brick in my pocket. Hey, folks. Thank you for joining us. I know you don't wanna you don't wanna hear about my first world problems with iPhones in Hawaii. That was a pretty bad take by me.

But we really appreciate being along for the ride with us here at InGoal Magazine and the InGoal Radio Podcast. Hopefully, we'll have Daren back next week, a much better voice, a much better driver of the bus and leader, but thanks for putting up with me. And thank you, Hutch, for doing the same.

My pleasure.

Talk to you next week.

Great hanging out with you again, Woody.