InGoal Radio Episode 239 with Hunter Sheppard

Intro

Presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. We are looking forward to our feature interview with Hunter Sheppard, a beautiful, beautiful debut in the National Hockey League this year coming off a wonderful season last year, and it's a feature interview brought to you by Sense Arena, Sense Arena VR, NHL, Sense Arena as we bring in the cofounders of InGoal Magazine. It's the InGoal Radio Podcast with David Hutchison and Kevin Woodley. You guys done all your shopping, or you're still booking out those gift subscriptions to people on your list?

That's probably about the easiest thing I can do right now. I've never been much of a shopper. I love shopping online, Daren. And I think, if you're looking for a goalie, maybe head over to ingoalmag.com because you can order a gift subscription. It's less than $50 in my money.

It's less than a cup of coffee in Daren's money. That's American dollars that is because it's $50 Canadian. And, when you order it, you can send a great little message on to whoever you're giving the gift to. Once you've had it processed, we give you the option to download a gift certificate that you can, print out and put under the tree or in the stocking or whatever. You would be giving your very favorite goalie the best instruction you can for the year to come for less than $50.

They get to sit down with NHL goaltenders and learn how they read the game. They can get tips from NHL coaches. They will learn from the best on Christmas morning for a year to come, including three years of our archives. You're basically getting four years of InGoal for the price of one.

It's a goalie coach.

Yeah. Best best bargain. Best bargain in goaltending. I really believe it. Most powerful tool, I think.

I really believe it. Head over there. It... Look. And if you've already got a gift subscription, if you're in the minority of people that finds listening to Kevin Woodley perhaps a little bit too much, you can also get a premium podcast subscription and get straight to the feature interviews.

There's over 250 of them sitting in the can there. You could just binge on feature interviews. But I know you're the minority. I know most people look forward to listening to you every week, Kevin.

I know I'm annoying. I know I ramble on, but I will give you this. This is something you're gonna wanna listen to folks. If you haven't jumped on an InGoal subscription, if you've listened to us all these years talk about all the different things that are available, we've got some examples, some free samples, so to speak. We've unlocked a handful of articles, and we'll be sharing those on our social media channels over the next couple of days just to remind people, including three and a half minutes of Thatcher Demko walking through video of when, why, where, and how to use the reverse or reverse VH.

Just one example among several 100 that will be a part of your annual subscription. As Hutch mentioned, both the year moving forward and our archives, we're going to unlock that. It'll be in our YouTube. Check out Instagram. I guess we can't call it Twitter anymore.

X threads. Where else are we, Hutch? We don't have a TikTok because we're too old for that, and nobody wants to see me dance. But everywhere else, we'll unlock that Thatcher Demko reverse VH sort of the the how, why, when, and where to use it. And I think it's just one of several great examples of the type of content we bring to you that nobody else does.

And just one more reason why that $50 Canadian a year subscription, whether it's for yourself or gifted to somebody else, is as Hutch said the best deal in goaltending because I'm gonna back pad here a little bit. We're the best resource in goaltending.

You know those hours after the presents get opened and there's that lull, during Christmas day? This would be the ultimate for your goaltender. Like, that keeps them occupied. Or if you, as a goaltender, wanna gift it to yourself, it just... It's such a resource and you go down that rabbit hole, and you may not come out until New Year's Day.

2024. Yeah. We can... We'll keep you... We will...

There is... I actually bet you there is enough content that if you were to open a gift subscription and wanna pour through everything in the archive, it would take you till the New Year to get through it all. That's how much content we have. It's all NHL goalies.

Over 800 articles, Woody.

Yeah. There you go. That's a lot. And and like I said, it's not just articles, folks. I know we call ourselves InGoal Magazine.

We really do bring... That's one of the reasons we went digital is because that ability to bring video to it and have NHL video with NHL goalies and goalie coaches walking us through the drills they do on a daily basis and sharing the tips with you so you can bring them into your game. Try them. Add them as a tool. Tools in the toolbox as we like to say.

We'd like to bring as many of those to our audience as we can.

Gear

The Brian's Optic 3 Chesty coming up in our Gear Segment with Cam and Woodley over at the hockey shop, thehockeyshop.com. I am sending out a a gift idea to Dallas, Vegas, Toronto, Carolina, LA, and Seattle, Detroit. That's the list of teams right now dealing with goaltending injuries. It's a wild middle of the season stretch for the net minders.

Do we have any theories? I mean, we know the game has never been harder for goalies. Although Bill Ranford in a couple of couple episodes ago sort of question that at least from the standpoint of his generation having to actually feel pucks through the equipment and guys don't feel anything anymore for the most part. But, man, the East West, the back and forth, having to push hard in one direction, stop and go the other way, and how much that pulls your body apart. Like, is that all we're seeing here, or is there more to it?

I think it's pretty basic in the the stress that the body is going on between quads and groins and hips and knees. There's there's a... I would focus on that, but, I'm I'm maybe not as connected as you guys are on this.

I have... I do have questions, and I've heard these questions from some goalie coaches around the league. It's been a topic of discussion for a couple of years now. And, you know, there are some questions about about how stiff some of the skates are, how much your foot is locked into it, and unless you sort of leave the top laces undone, how little give there is even right through the bottom of the ankle. And does that add pressure up the chain?

Does that create more tension, you know, into the high ankle? We're seeing a high ankle sprain with Joseph Woll the other day after missing his post. Up to the knees, into the hips. That's a question that I know goalie coaches, goalie directors around the league are at least starting to ask a little more regularly. I think for the most part, Daren, you're right.

Like, it's the East West dynamic offense that we're seeing. But within that, you might need a little more give. Right? You might need a little more sort of mobility at the base of your foot or or or around the bottom of your ankle in order to survive the extreme lateral place that the game now demands of goaltenders. So I'm not sure.

You know, there's nothing scientific there. Nobody's done a study. You can't say for sure, but it... It's at least a trend that some people are keeping an eye on in terms of just how locked in. And goalies love it.

Right? They'll change their sharpening. They won't need as much as deep an edge because they feel so connected to the the blade because these skates fit them so well and their heels are sucked in so well to the back. They... Sometimes they're hard to get off.

They're so good. But, again, if you don't have any give, it's gotta... All that energy's gotta go somewhere, and then there's at least some people out there questioning whether that's a part of some, not all, but some of these injuries.

Yeah. And don't, don't just look at it as a game thing, folks. Like, it's not... Yes. The game is more difficult than it's ever been and the East West is there as as the guys have said, but but don't forget there's a practice element as well.

Right? You're putting time in in practice. Those practices are more dynamic than they've ever been. We know that a lot of organizations move towards maybe shorter but higher intensity practices because they wanna give the guys a little bit more rest, but that probably makes it a little bit tougher on the goaltenders as well. And then when you're a pro, you're trying to fit in the off ice work that you can around crazy travel schedules.

But, you know, the the game is incredibly demanding now. And and, and I guess we're seeing some of that come come home for some of these guys. It's it's unfortunate, but it's gonna open the door for other guys.

You know what that means? I think we just, like, did our Sense Arena read early. They need to need to channel a little Joey Daccord, Devin Levi

Yeah.

And and get your reps in virtually. I don't know if you guys caught it. Obviously, I had an article at nhl.com we talked about last week with Joey Daccord talking about using Sense Arena in between periods and the intermission to sort of dial in his glove hand. Obviously, with the winter classic coming up, Daren, your Vegas Golden Knights coming up to Seattle, the my neck of the woods in in just a week or so for the winter classic. There's the road to the winter classic behind the scenes footage, that shot for the TV show they create leading up to it and some great clips of Joey Daccord using the Sense Arena VR, you know, in the hallway outside a locker room before a game to get ready to play.

I thought that was really cool to see and just once again reinforcing, you know, what we've been saying for years. The new NHL Sense Arena may have allowed you as a beer league or up and coming young goalie to walk into these virtual locker rooms and onto NHL ice sheets and see what it's like. But the truth is this product's been in NHL locker rooms for years already, and there's a reason it's legit.

Hey. We support NHL Sense Arena. We love the product. We use the product, but there's a reality that if you're a young goaltender and you have access to this, there's a bit of intimidation about taking that to the rink around your teammates, around your coaches.

Big time.

What what the currency of watching Joey Daccord on the road to the winter classic offers up? Our goaltending community is extensive. I don't think there's a dollar amount that you could put on the marketing or just the acceptance of being able to adapt that into your regular routine in and around the rink because being able to fall back on, I saw Joey Daccord on on the National Hockey League doing the same thing on Road at the Winter Classic. He does it. Why wouldn't I take advantage of that?

And coaches and players all of a sudden will will be much more open to it.

Normalizing it. Right?

I think that's a huge point. Even even today in the game, even if you don't have, the Sense Arena headset on, there are guys, as you move up the ladder in hockey, that will be giving you a hard time because you're doing that extra warm up, because you're doing that extra cool down, because you're doing the ball work. But know that if you're part of the InGoal community, you've got a huge group of supportive goaltenders and coaches who believe that what you're doing is the right things to get out there and do the work. Don't be afraid to use the Sense Arena headset. And if you do, you're probably giving other goalies around you permission to give it a go too.

So you're being a leader like Joey Daccord.

Now at the beer league level, be prepared for chirps galore because they don't like us...

That's the fun of beer league.

That's right. They don't like us try hards. That's... I'm I'm gonna bring it out to mine not to get warmed up, but after my team gives up another night of countless three n o's, I'm just gonna actually put them in the headset in the locker room after and tell them, see if... See how you do, boys.

I I had fun with with my Beer League. I I was doing it and they were looking at me, but I wasn't really doing it. I was just pretending to do it. And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, hey.

Give it a shot. Try it out. And I had other pictures taped into the goggles when they looked at it, and they thought that was pretty funny. It was just my way to to to have a a little bit of a joke with them and and have some fun. But I I do think that there...

There's an opportunity here. And if you have ever been on the receiving end of a little pushback by anybody, use us as an outlet. Send us a note. Send us your experience, and we'd love to talk you through it and and help you out in any way that we can and and be your mentor. Hutch is...

I got a son that's in in in the major junior level. He can certainly lean on a little Hutch and and what goes through that. There's Woody with the the National Hockey League, the professional angles that that he can reach out to. So we are a resource to you, and it's a perfect time of the year to to offer that up. And maybe we can align these sites a little bit on the goaltenders.

We've had a number of guys go for goals lately and some that maybe you don't fully expect to be going forward, But, but we've watched five guys in the last week take shots at the net, and we haven't had a goal.

Didn't we just have... Woody say? I'm surprised we haven't had more.

Yes. Right?

Just just last week, I think it was when he was saying, oh, I've been predicting for years. And then then we get a text on the InGoal group chat from Daren saying, oh, there's now been three guys. Two minutes later, I text back, nope. Now we're up to four.

Guys are trying. One the other night.

What a great week.

Lukas Dostal did not miss by much, man. That was close. Outside of the post, basically.

I can't believe... And this is this is my observation of it because I remember Hexy doing it on on rims, grabbing it, and he's behind the goal line and he's and he's going for... But but dump ins, players are able to... The goaltenders are able to get it from glove to ice to up and over with somebody right in front of them. It's amazing how aggressive our friends in the crease are at going for these goals.

And sometimes you have to be. I... You know what it reminds me? Like, again, I was I was so lucky to get to watch Linus Ullmark score here in Vancouver. Like, that was such a thrill.

And doing the postgame interviews after, like, one of the things he said, like, he didn't know he'd got, like, for a second there. He wasn't sure he'd because he was... He chucked that over top of fast approaching fore checkers. Yes. And he wasn't sure he got it over them.

And if he hadn't, there was a yawning cage for them to to knock it into. And he wasn't sure for a split second there whether his attempt had cleared them. I mean, it landed at the far hash mark practically, certainly inside the top of the circle. But that that sort of the bravery to know you can get it up and over that first wave is that's that's impressive stuff.

I would be afraid to bounce it in off the shin pads or the body and just have it go in.

I'd go full bob.

Giving... Forget giving it... Bouncing it off or or giving up the puck and causing a turnover. I think I'd just bank it off them and then... And I'd be such a shame person sitting there.

But they... It... They don't hesitate. They go right up and over or try and slide it away. Ned Ned tried to go

Oh, he's getting one. The other day. He's getting one. It's coming.

It's so good. And no... He he did it with a one goal lead. And it was it was interesting. They show Sullivan on the bench.

And I think there's certain coaches that are much more open to it. I didn't see any

Sullier ain't one of them.

coming out of... Yeah. I didn't see any iron out of that. And and is that any difference... Different than a player going for it and and causing an icing?

I I don't think so now. If if you're if you're a good puck handler, coaches will give you a little bit more rope to go for it.

Maybe maybe Jarry scoring did it, but I know they... I know in Pittsburgh, they'd asked him to to try less for a little while. And that's Really? That's one of the reasons that Jarry maybe didn't have one sooner. I was told that they had...

By by another goalie that was in that organization that they'd back them off. So I'm not... Because you're right, Daren, especially with Ned and the way he chucks it and Tristan. But the difference is when a defenseman goes for it and misses, the goalie isn't out of the net as he does it like a goalie is. So if he misses or doesn't clear that fore check and they knock it into the empty net in a one goal game, yeah, I think you'd see some tops blowing at that point, especially for a team that's scuffling a little bit.

So, yeah, like, I I... Actually it's one of the reasons I don't think we've seen as many yet is because there are some that are... Have this... The instructions are a little stricter. Let's put it that way.

Yeah. Well, hey. It's not easy to find that practice time. I think as a goaltender, you've gotta be ridiculously determined to take every opportunity you can to shoot those hundreds and hundreds of pucks it takes to be able to get that elevation. Because it's not just I need to get it to the other end of the ice.

It's not even I need to get it in the air to the other end of the ice. You gotta get it up and over everyone. Mean... Quickly. Yeah.

Huge. So are you doing the one knee down technique to rip that thing up high real quick? I don't know what it is, but you've gotta practice. It's it's it's hundreds. You can't hope that puck into the other zone.

Can you guys do the one knee down? If I try it, I've got two knees down and I'm sliding back after I give the puck away.

No. I can do one knee down. Just can't get back up.

The one knee down is is really impressive the way they can get some zip on it and some height on it.

Yeah. And I would argue it's not just a skill for scoring. Right? It's a skill that you can use for for clearing the zone on a penalty kill, which is a fun thing to pull off too.

Totally. Yeah. I'm lucky if I get it past the blue line. So there'll be... There's no fear of Kevin ever hitting an empty net, that's for sure.

My team cringes when I go out to handle it.

They yell sweep, hurry hard when I handle the puck.

I can relate, my friend. I can relate.

Some guys don't even have to play the curl anymore, the spin. They they loft it so so far down the ice. I am fully borrowing four feet of ice as that thing slides back towards the the middle of the ice... Middle of the net.

When I handle the pocket, it's not it's not so much goaltending as it is shuffleboard.

I think we'd expect somebody from Brandon Manitoba to be a solid curler though, wouldn't we?

I can I can I can throw a rock? I love I love my curling. We got a a rink starting up here at Curling Club in Vegas, and I cannot wait for that to get off off the ground. The Brian's Optic 3 chesty over at The Hockey Shop, The Hockey Shop, .com, Source for Sports Langley, and things are busy over there, Woody.

Yeah. Incredibly so. You know, we've we've got a few more in the hop. We Brian's optic 3 this week, and we'll check-in with Cam on the details there. We got Brian's optic 3matching pants, which also have that sort of that that just high quality rich feel that you've come to expect from the folks at Brian Custom Sports.

Those will be our our our segment next week. CCM All Out. You can now order. You've seen... You're gonna see the gear sets.

We're starting to see them already for the world... Upcoming world junior championships, all the custom looks. You've seen our InGoal custom set. That's now open to the public, so you can reach out to Cam. We got a segment on that and how to go through that process.

But if you got any questions, you can check them out. There's new gear coming in. We saw the agent stick from Bauer in recently. Just... There's a ton of new gear still coming in, which is normally rare for around Christmas.

Obviously, Brian's too, with the new iconic, icon, iconic set. Hutch is shaking his head because he asked that the

love set part.

Like, do we just make

it this way? Echo. You do the whisper and Hutch just shakes his head every single time.

Sorry, Hutch.

He shakes his head. It's it's like the... There... You go iconic, iconic. And and the the third echo is Hutch shaking his head.

Okay. So... You're not wrong. Iconic is there. Iconic is there.

There are also sales. We talked last week. Yeah. The new Warrior Ritual F2 mask, but the F1's on sale for $700. So it is a busy time of year.

Last minute Christmas shopping, we talked about a great gift being, the Paddle Wedge Trinity Underglove. They sold out of that. They brought more in already. It is buzzing over there. If you got a goalie on your wish list and you can drop by in person, make sure you check them out before Christmas.

If it's too late for that, you wanna buy yourself something for the new year or you're just looking for sale items, they've got plenty of those on right now. Make sure you check them out at the hockeyshop.com. And before we go to Cam on the Brian's Optic 3, I do have to say a little something about iconic. Cam is now referring to himself as Iconic.

I I think that was actually somebody who watches the Gear Segment who left it as a comment. So let's not give Cam the credit.

I think his wife may have referred to him as Iconic at the Hockey Shop Christmas party.

So There was... It it wasn't, like, misusing the word ironic.

Cam is living that iconic lifestyle now. He may not... We may... I don't know if he's wearing the gear, but he's very much put himself. So we're gonna have to stick a pin in that balloon and see if we can bring that head down a few sizes just so we can fit it into the many masks they have on sale right now at the Hockey Shop.

But for now, it was small enough when I saw him that we could get it into the chest protector. It would fit through the little hole at the top of the Brian's Optic 3. Let's get all the details on that from Cam at the Hockey Shop. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports down here in Goal Utopia. I am Kevin.

Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports down here in Goal Utopia. I am Kevin.

I am Cam. You are huge.

I know. When did you guys start selling, like, armor? I feel like I could be a knight, like around the round table jousting this thing.

We have always sold chest arm. That said, the new Brian's Optic three chest and arm unit.

Huge. Tank. Huge. Protective. Coverage.

If you never want to feel another puck again, this may be the model for you.

Well, you know, you are going to feel the puck. It's just you're not gonna get bruised for the most part.

I think it might require some break in just to feel the puck.

So now, well, we'll dive right into it here. So like with as being an avid Brian's chest user myself previously and anyone that has been fans of Brian's chest before would know that they do take a little bit of a break in period. So Optic 3, obviously replacing optic 2, optic 2 very popular, fans of Vaughn Arwal and even at the NHL level and other pro leagues all combined. Knowing this, they continued off of that play and have created an NHL legal. I actually don't believe that, but NHL legal chest, amazing.

But some of these who are familiar with that Optic 2 or familiar with previous buy ins chest, again know before that they do take a little bit of time to be able to get that little bit more soft, little bit more mobile. It will come and it's going to pay off with a very long lasting protective chest unit, but you got to get over that kind of hump before you can get there. So as you can see with Kevin, very wide arm, elbow floaters, nice overall presence, very squared off where it can be. Kevin is sitting down, so it is popping it quite

Check with the producer. Do I dare stand up? Can I stand up?

We're breaking the third wall here. Hold on.

Stand by. We don't want anyone to... I can stand up maybe and there. So it's not folks. It is not just when I'm sitting down, we see goalies go turtle shell when they're on the bench.

This thing presents that big.

We'll get Kevin to turn to the side here because now we can show some of the adjustability of the chest itself. So...

This is kind of cool. The padding is part of the strapping.

Correct.

Solid block. Your belly strap. Listen to that. Integrated into actual chest unit itself. So not worried about buckles being snapped off, which is a common issue with chests.

Velcro adjustment held on by nylon in the back itself. So we have a solid anchor point, no more elasticity with this one. This creates better connectivity to the unit itself and no overall unneeded flex. So turn around there Robocop. So you can see from the back, we have our segmented shoulder floater adjustment as well as body adjustment.

What? I thought you said this

was NHL legal. There are some differences between this and the NHL unit.

We might have to have a word with the NHL because I've actually seen these Velcro straps and they're not supposed to be legal.

Anyway, back to retail here. So shoulder floaters, adjustable held on by Velcro in the back. Overall body height of the unit, again, adjustable here. Arms, we have a laced in but also elastic design here that creates more flexibility in the arm, allowing for arm mobility right off of the bat. That said, you still actually can move the unit for again, the overall size of the arms itself.

So even though it is on the bulkier side of things, there is some good flexibility here. This also allows for some macro adjustment too if the arms are slightly too long. In theory, that could be sewn up or pinned up a little bit higher if need be. So Brian's Optic 3 made in Canada unit as well. So you get that handcrafted.

That's cool. What is it? Kevin is a big fan of that side adjustment. Big fan of the unit. Quite a large unit can be ordered custom too as well.

Unfortunately, Brian's wait times are a little bit on the higher side of things, but if you are looking for a chest unit, different colors, wanted to mod a couple of things, that is something that is available and you can talk to me about it at (604) 589-8299 or 1-80o-567-7790. Check us out at thehockeyshop.com where you will find this unit up online.

Wow. Good job, Cam. Tank

you make sure that Cam got back to his trailer okay? And that the security guard was positioned outside, his his location before his next, appearance?

I was gonna be honest with you. I was getting a little nervous about sending him back to the trailer because I wasn't sure if they'd removed all the red M and M's. And, you know, as a goalie, we don't like the red light. Cam evidently is part of his rider for his trailer before he does his appearances as as the icon that he is. The iconic Cam Matwiv does not like red M and M's.

So I wasn't sure we'd had that sorted out in the backroom, and I was nervous about sending him back to the trailer.

The Brian's optic 3 would be good for him if he was looking for personal protection. He might be able to get by without a a security personnel.

Yeah. It's, as he said in the review, it's very protective. It it presents very big. It's a it's a beautiful unit. There's no question.

But when you buy it, you have to understand this thing is not going to be super flexible and mobile out of the box. That's not a problem. Like, break in is a part of equipment. This one just might take a little longer to sort of get soft and flexible for you. But, man, the performance coverage and sort of protection benefits are hard to argue.

It's... And and it's attractive. It's beautiful stock. But, of course, because they are Brian's, you can get custom... You can have custom elements added to it.

Everything Brian's does is available in custom. And if you got any questions about that and some of the options that are available to you, if you wanna do custom order, make sure you check out Cam and his crew and ask them at thehockeyshop.com. Here's a preference question,

and I'm curious. I want Hutch to answer it first. When it comes to upper body and chesties, do you think you would play better with full movement or given that you played in an era where you could feel a pucks, would you automatically play better with a super beefed up, like, the Brian's Optic 3 chesty where you're so confident, you know, you're not gonna get dinged at all? Because those both are very influential on confidence, but they're very different, approaches.

Which age, Hutch, are you asking?

This age, Hutch.

Well well, then then I don't need to move because I can't. So give me something really big and I'll just block it. Well, I actually mean that quite seriously. Like, there's only so much athleticism left in the old body. So, I don't know that that matters.

I I would want something that's a compromise and the the level of protection.

Believe you just took it right down the middle when I gave you two options.

Well, I always do. I always do. You know, I sit on the fence. That's that's what I do. Good balance.

But seriously, if you think about what we had back in the day, I remember going into that first brown chest protector from those terrible quilted arms I had. I mean, it was such an incredible difference between those two things that I think I could be happy in just about anything today and take that mobility that comes with maybe a little bit less protection. So, I guess in an ideal world, I don't need it to be as as great as it is. But for sure confidence is such a major part of the game, isn't it? Like, I think Yeah.

I think finding a way to invest in some good equipment, whether you're you're getting last year's model if if things are tight or you're getting something that's a hand me down, but it's a higher end piece, getting that confidence will help you become a better goaltender. It's... There's nothing really that can replace it.

And I don't think... I get act... I get to wear some of the best in the business through my association with you guys and with with Vegas and facing the best shots in the business. And you still get stung every now and then. And just not not having to worry about that, I think would be such a benefit.

Yeah. I'd say as I've ever faced those shots.

Well, the other thing too is don't forget, like like, we gotta be careful here because this will break in and it will have that mobility. It's just not gonna I be like I I like like it.

Like extra.

The extra beef layer. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm with you on that. No. I'm I'm old.

I I I didn't start the position till 35 when, you know, the Reebok Premier was available.

And already old.

I was already old. And the idea of... Like, to me, the idea of tolerating bruises and and pain for a little extra mobility just never made sense because I didn't have to. Like, when I started there... So that wasn't part of what I grew up with.

So I've never sort of understood that mentality. Maybe it's because, like, catch said, I... You know, the reactions have never been there for me, and I couldn't catch a cold. But, give me give me protection every day of the week, and I trust that the rest will break in with time.

You also call Elvis Merzlikins because he can provide some extra protection. He was getting it. We've got back to back weeks where goalies are getting into it with Piotr Yeah. That was Elvis. That was a

yep. Piotr? You're right. I forgot

about that. Legend, we... We've got goalies shaking it up.

I actually think it could end up being a little bit like your prediction about goalie goals. Woody, I think you might see more and more of it. And we have to remain level headed and we have to stay out of things to the best we can so that we remain focused on the game. But, as Woody likes to remind us, there is more and more crease crashing all the time and guys are gonna start protecting themselves. So I am not advising kids to go out there and mix it up by any stretch.

I I I don't even like the guys that I coach struggling with the guys in front of the net, you know, giving a little hammer on the back, that sort of thing. I think your prime responsibility is to stop the puck. But, I do think that we're gonna see more of this because, it's a more and more dangerous position. Look, I'm not saying that what happened, with Elvis was necessarily all that dangerous and necessarily something he needed to get involved in, but I think we're gonna see more of it.

Well, I mean, it is

fine. Can you you imagine Hutch coaching you and I, Woody? He wouldn't last five minutes. He'd quit.

You know what mean?

Oh, guys are so much fun.

Guys are cut

I'd have so much fun. Totally. So much fun.

Stop. Snapzilla.

I can work with

a You want, I'm putting the other idiot in. I'm taking the idiot out and putting the other idiot.

It'd be awesome. I can work with anybody who plays anyway. It's just good fun.

It'd be like... He'd be like Mike Keenan out there. Get out. Get get back in. Go get

That so not me.

Fall in. Yeah. No. No.

Because because we're so goofy with the way we get involved in extracurriculars, you would not be able to be able to reason with us.

I would just say this is what I think you should do, but look, it's up to you. And then the head coach will decide if you're stopping enough pucks. So you do what you wanna

Woody would drop a iconic. Iconic. Then you'd walk away.

Yeah. I'm iconic. Walk away. Listen. It is a fine line.

Right? Like, saw with Jeremy Swayman in the playoffs last year. Right? Like, got a little too involved, and the winning goal goes in as as he's, you know, late recovering from giving a guy that's been bugging bugging him in front of the net, probably could chunk if I remember correctly, a little tap, and that split second cost him a goal. Right?

And he talked about it after. And I think in Elvis' case, said afterwards, and I haven't seen the footage to see whether this is true, but he felt that, early in the game, Wilson slew footed him as he went through the crease. And and that kinda goes to the point that Hutch made. Right? Like, you know, I I kinda blew my top last week talking about it.

Like, I'm 40 year old beer league, man. Stop crashing the goalie. Like, if you can't score, you can't score. That doesn't mean it's like, oh, we gotta run this guy to get the puck in the net. Good lord.

I'm bad enough. You should be able to score without knocking me over. And I think at the NHL level, the amount of contact that has been allowed, the way the video review has led to, anything outside of the crease can be deemed incidental now. I just think the pendulum swung too far the wrong way. And much like players taking it into their own hands on the hits from behind and getting retribution because they don't feel the league is doing enough, I'm with Hutch.

I think we're gonna see more and more of this as goalies get fed up with guys coming through the blue paint, bumping them, making contact, and at times making plays that may not feel dangerous, but in our equipment, it really is.

Hey. Were we just talking about goalies getting injured? I mean, I know it's not the same thing what's been happening, but

Adds to the wear and tear

awareness. Of it. Right? Yeah. Absolutely.

You watch a lot of practices, American League, NHL level. What do you... You ever see guys intentionally practice without a stick or do drills without a stick? More and more guys are coming across and they're throwing their stick to get their bodies across and they... There's a couple of guys in particular, Bob is one of them, that will let go of the stick.

And they end up playing for a legitimate amount of time without a twig. Does anybody ever practice that?

That's a good question. I don't think I've ever seen anyone practice. I've seen, like, what Bob does on a two on one to his blocker side knowing that he wants to free up the blocker hand. He doesn't just drop the stick. He puts it in a specific place on the ice as he comes across so that if the pass goes back the other way, it has a chance of hitting the stick.

Like, they practice that for sure. They used to practice it back in the Columbus days. And, you know, I've watched Dean Clark work with that. Are certain moments where, you know, to prioritize a blocker hand not being encumbered, or or sort of restricted by having the stick in it, drop it in certain moments. But you're right. I've never seen or very rarely do I think I've seen them play out those sequences, for extended periods without the stick.

That's a... It's an interesting point.

It's so uncomfortable, and it's weird, but it happens more often than I think people realize.

Didn't Patera just give up a goal the other night? Were he sort of trying to reach back to get it as he had lost it?

It's... It... That's what made me think about it is the defenseman went and grabbed the stick and went to hand it back to him. That was a five on three, and you don't know how long you're gonna be without a stick on a five on three. So I I actually did like the idea of the defenseman because it was close enough to be able to try and grab it, but then you're trying to watch the the play.

You're trying to reach the stick, and and it it gets a little clunky or could be, but I liked it. But if you practice it all the time, maybe the defense doesn't feel the need to try and retrieve that stick.

I think that's an excellent point. You see, even even at high levels of junior hockey teams not knowing really what to do there. Yeah. Different players making it up as they go. And I I know my son's team, they have actually sort of a priority list for how they They do.

Checked out through some of the stuff. Yeah, they do. But... So it does happen. So I'm I'm not suggesting everybody does.

But I think your point, Daren, of actually practicing it for everybody else is probably a good thing to show them what the goalie can do. That said, I definitely know of some coaches who don't want to do drills without a stick because they're afraid of a goaltender making that instinctive move to go and catch a puck, with the blocker hand if it's not got a stick in it. And then, of course, that's a huge injury risk. Now, you don't practice it, being aware that that is is a risk, maybe you are increasing the risk when game time comes. But, yeah, I like the idea not only for the players knowing what their responsibilities are in that situation, but just for seeing how many pucks can be saved without a stick.

I actually had Matty ask me the question last night we were watching some hockey and he said he's amazed how many goalies when they lose a stick actually put their blocker hand in the five hole. I don't think I've seen that, but that was something that occurred to him. It just... He was watching it and I think it was a goalmouth scramble kind of thing and instinctively this guy's wanted to cover up the five hole, which of course doesn't make a whole lot of sense because we have our pads when we go down the butterfly. But yeah, I don't know if you guys have seen that or not.

I I never thought of that either, but I can understand the the rationale. But there's also the the... There should be a seal there, you know, with with your with your pads.

Yeah. But... And but then I guess without practicing it, you just sort of go to this

Yeah. No. No.

Reactive, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just gonna make the best of it kind of thing. So...

I go to that. I don't know what I'm doing quite often, to be honest with you.

Just an organic conversation. I I I... Got this. And I I don't know whether I've ever watched anybody consciously, proactively practice without a stick, even though it's it's one of the most, like, naked feelings that you could have out there when you're losing stick. Does that help you feel a little bit more comfortable through that? I would... I don't have the shaft of the stick without...

If I'd lose my stick, and that's, like, my go to save Yes. Selection Yes. Is is that thing up there.

How am I supposed to do a diving poke check without

a stick canvas? NHL Sense Arena presents our feature interview this week chatting with Hunter Sheppard, the Washington Capitals organization called her cup, champion and made his National Hockey League debut. Looking forward to that discussion as NHL Sense Arena continues to make strides, Hutch.

Yeah. They do. I don't know that we need to say a whole lot here because Woody gave us a great breakdown of Sense Arena and why it's so good for your game and how it can be good for your game. I'll just say this, if you are looking for that last minute Christmas gift, it's... As we're recording this, it's the Friday December 22, and you're thinking to yourself, I can't get Sense Arena for my son or daughter or my husband or wife because it's so late.

Not quite. Not quite. You could head to the, the local electronics store and grab yourself the headset right now and then go and download Sense Arena for them and we'll be good to go. So that can be done. If you already have a headset, then it's really easy.

Head over to sensearena.com. You can even just get the seven day trial and then worry about it after that. There's lots of options for you to let, your loved ones face NHL shooters, get more reps in a safer, environment that is a little bit easier on the body, a much more controlled environment with shooters who can shoot and hit the mark every single time. Head over to sensearena.com. Grab the incredible deal they've got on right now.

I think it's like 50% off if you go for the full annual deal. And if you use the code I g m 50, you'll save even more. Daren?

Does that not sound attractive?

Yeah. Last minute shopping, check. Half off, check. My kid's gonna be a better goalie and he'll have something to do. It's almost it's almost as good as an InGoalmag subscription, check.

Buy them both.

And you're cool. Check.

Yeah. Just like Joey Daccord.

Yeah. That's the only way that I could be cool. Why has Hutch buried his head in his hand? I'm making notes. Ramble.

Oh. No. You guys give me great ideas and I'm just adding to the list of things I should probably not be doing right now because I should be out Christmas shopping. But...

You're you're all of those things including cool. Cool dad. You're our cool dad.

Hutch. You may be the first person who's called me cool without the word not in front of it.

What about, Hunter Sheppard? First of all, I love his mane. He is he is just got a wonderful head of hair.

As the kids say, he's got some good salad. He's also... He's a cool customer. He's pretty laid back, and and I just loved... I loved his approach.

I loved the conversation. You know, he talks about the nerves of that first NHL game, and all the extras that come with it, people reaching out, congratulating, all meaning well, but just how much that adds to it, how much better he was in his second game without that. Talks about a path that is at times winding and didn't always look like it was pointed towards playing in the National Hockey League. So, he has had to prove it at every level. And as he tells us in this interview, when you're a professional goalie, you gotta prove it every day.

But the way he proves it, some of the guys that he modeled this game after early, including Henrik Lundqvist and how he applies that in the crease positionally even to this day. And some of the coaches along the way that didn't want him to do it that way. It's a fascinating conversation loaded with great insights that I think, you know, I think goalies at every level, every age, goalie coaches, goalie parents, there's gonna be something in this interview that you will take away from it, that may help you whether it's now or down the road. So really enjoyed this time. Can't thank the Hershey Bears enough for facilitating it, giving us a full half an hour plus with Hunter Sheppard.

I really enjoyed it, and I hope our audience does too.

Hunter Sheppard, the Sense Arena, NHL Sense Arena feature interview on InGoal Radio, the podcast.

Feature Interview - Hunter Sheppard

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. First time guest, although some of his coaches in the Washington Capital's organization have been telling me I need to get this guy on for a while. Hunter Sheppard, thanks for joining us today.

Yeah. No problem.

I feel like there's a whole bunch of places I wanna go with this, but let's start with most recent. Let's start with this year. You're coming off a Calder Cup championship, Calder Cup MVP last year. You get your first opportunity up with Washington to play in the National Hockey League. What's that moment like?

What's that day like? What's that preparation like as a goalie when you... That NHL dream is right in front of you?

It's weird just for the fact like like you don't feel super comfortable when, you know, like you make like, it's all the extra stuff that's going Like us. Yeah, well just, yeah, just everything, know, the extra stuff, like, especially the day before the game and like the couple days leading up to the game, because I don't like the extra stuff, you know, I just like to do my routine and I like to because I'm comfortable with that. So it's like, not that it needs to be perfect, because I think that's like the worst thing you can do as a goalie is like have like a ton of superstitions and then I feel like there's one thing you can't do during your game day that bothers you. So like, I just, you know, like to keep it simple and just keep to myself and pretty tough to do in that situation, you know, like...

Is mostly all the questions coming, like, I mean, because it's your first start and obviously they've given people heads up, it was just the questions from us. Is that the extra stuff?

No, it's not even that. It's just, you know, it's like your phone's just blowing up and... But you know, it's like obviously all support and all good things, but it's like, I don't have to be on my phone that much anyways. So it's like, you know, I still like trying to get back to people, you know, from that. Yeah, social media just kind of turned all the notifications off on my phone, so it's just...

It's a lot, but, you know, it's part of it, I guess. It's their experience.

You've been through huge pressure moments. You've, you know, won NCAA championships, won Calder Cup championships, game seven overtime. Like, you've handled pressure before outside of all those extra things. I guess, was there anything different about this moment because it was the first time in the NHL? And maybe if you could share because this this is all goalies listening.

Any advice on how to handle that? You talked about routine. Were there elements of your routine that you made sure you went back to so that as much as it... That first one wasn't just another game, you could feel like it was just another game. Is there a way to to sort of help do that?

Yes and no. I know it's like, you have to be able to... Like, at that level, you know, like, you... You're not gonna be able to, like, flip a switch and be like, okay. It's game time.

So it's it's like a process of during, like, that day, you know, or maybe even, like, the night before, like, leading up to kinda, like, slowly getting yourself into that, you know, kind of flow state, I guess you could say. But it's not something you can force, and I think it's when you see with some people that it's easy to get into the flow state where it's just another game compared to when it's like the big game. I think that's the difference, not necessarily between a goalie being good and a goalie being really good. Think it's just anything in life. You know, it doesn't matter what sport it is.

Like, it's easy when everything's going good, and it's easy when, you know, there's nothing to lose. But it's, you know, it's different when there's things like something that, you know, like my first game, it's like, I'm 28 years old, I've been playing goalie for twenty years now. Like, you know, all of that, everything, like all the times in the backyard, you know, and it's freezing cold out, and just things you did where you look back are normal, seems like silly to do them, but it's, you know, all that, it's like you just want, like you want it so bad to like go well that it's, you know, it's a lot of anxiety and whatever, and to be able to put that stuff to the side and get into a place where you're not thinking and you're just playing. The biggest thing for me is if if if the only reason for me playing is not just simply to win the game that I'm playing in at that present time, I won't... I don't play my best hockey.

So it's like, you know, don't get me wrong, I love playing hockey, but I think more than anything, like, I'm just competitive. Like, I mean, if I could throw a baseball 95 miles an hour, I'd rather play baseball. But it's like, you know, it's just how I am. Like, it doesn't matter what what I I do, like, just kinda turn it into a competition. Like, that's kinda what gets me going.

So how do you... I mean, if somebody's listening and they kind of relate to that, like, that's how I am. How do you find that flow state heading into a game? Like, do you have any tips or things that you do, whether it's breathing drills or anything just to help you get into that place where you are just out there playing and not thinking as much as... Like I said, like, using your first game as an example probably isn't fair because that's new and that's a different experience.

But on a day to day basis, how do you find that flow state?

I mean, you don't find it on a day to day basis. That's the thing. It's... Like, it's not... I mean, you look at any sport, like, the best players are the ones that can...

Goalie is such a not one size fits all kind of position.

Like, ever, you know, in all of all time. Actually there's some exceptions that are just freak athletes, but the guys that can get into that state on the most consistent basis are... Those are the best guys, those are the guys that when you're a kid you want to be when you're playing in the driveway because it's like they played their best hockey in the big games. I mean, it's different for everyone. Goalie is such a not one size fits all kind of position, so it's not like me.

If I tried to do things like some other guys, I wouldn't... You have to do it... You have to be so sold on that doing it your way is the best way that there's no doubt in your mind that I don't care if a guy's seven foot tall and he's the most technically sound goalie in the world, that if I play my best Hunter Sheppard hockey, that it's gonna be better than this. That's just... You know, that's how you have to think.

It's such a mental thing. You know?

Okay. So I I I love that. Like, that's what I love about the position and sort of digging into it like this. It's kinda, I was in media, but not specific to goaltending for the longest time. But when I got introduced to goaltending, the the passion for it took off because there is no one way to do this.

There's never a right answer. Right? Like, there is no, as you said, so what is Hunter Sheppard hockey? Describe it for those who are listening that haven't had a chance to watch you. How would you describe Hunter Sheppard hockey when you're playing goal?

Playing to win. That's... And then just just playing just playing to win. That's And it's not like, you know, I'm just sitting here laughing and saying, I'm like, playing to win.

Playing to win. That's... And then just just playing just playing to win. That's And it's not like, you know, I'm just sitting here laughing and saying, I'm like, playing to win.

Right.

You know, it's like, just intense, it's hard to really put it into words, but it's like, you want to just win, and it doesn't matter if it's game 20 or game 90. If you don't have some emotion and it's like you know, I don't know. It's... That's just me, though. Like, it doesn't matter what I'm doing.

I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and talk x's and o's because that's not me. I'm not gonna say it.

I was gonna say, like, from a from a technique standpoint, there must be a foundation there or things that you Yeah. Staples.

Yeah. I mean, I... Like, I like to play deeper than most guys probably. There's... You know, I don't wanna have to rely on making acrobatic saves all the time because that's not really sustainable.

Tough way to live, yeah. Especially nowadays. But I'd rather sit back on the goal line and say, like, like, I seriously think, like, just that's the strong point of my game. Like, I can play further back because, you know, just reading the shot in my hands, that's, like, my strength. So, like, I'd rather sit back on the goal line and make a guy beat me with like a perfect shot and be out at the top of my crease and give up a wide open net, you know, backdoor because I'm being too aggressive.

Like, like as an outsider to that, it would, that would seem to be a bit of a juxtaposition to the competitive nature. Right? Like, because I think of competitive, I think a lot of people will think like active and attacking. So to be able to mix that patience and still have that competitive edge... Actually, there's another guy I think of when I hear that, and that's Henrik Lundqvist.

He used to talk to us about sort of, what was it? It was like a controlled intensity that he tried state that he tried to find. Is that is that when you talk about guys you grew up admiring on the driveway? He the guy?

Yeah. I mean, him and... It's weird because, like, him and Jonathan Quick were my two favorite goalies growing up. That's like, I don't think anyone ever really will be able to play the same style as either one of those guys. You know?

But, like like... I mean, obviously, like, because when you're growing up, it's like you're watching YouTube videos, and it's like you can take maybe one or two things and try to maybe do it half as good as them, because some of the things they did was so unique. There's just another weapon in your toolbox. But that's one thing I found out in college is, you know, in my first year there, I only played one game, and I worked with the goalie coach all year, and that was one of those. The first time I really had a goalie coach where I was like, you know, I needed to do things one way.

Okay.

And that just doesn't work. It wasn't working for me. So, like, at the beginning of the next year, I just totally changed everything that I was doing. Like, I'm just playing with... I've been trying to do everything how you're supposed to do it.

You know, like, top of the crease, square, set, everything. And I just totally said, I can't do that. If I'm going try to be everyone else, I'm not going to get the best out of what my abilities are. So I just moved way back. In practice, there's a lot of times I'll just stand on the goal line just because if I can wait and wait and wait wait for the puck to get released, as long as I'm reacting to it and moving the right way, and then also you get a much better sense of where you are in the net that you're filling.

But the main thing is about it is you don't give up hardly any empty net. Everyone does it different, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but for me, if I'm on the top of the crease and as soon as you stop, you're stuck. So it's like, if you stop and you don't have any drift back and the guy passes it, you see all the highlights where it's tic tac toe and the guy puts it in an empty net. My whole philosophy is if that never happens, then in the course of a season the percentages, for me at least, I think are way, way higher than than trying to, you know, be out at the top of the crease all day. You know, you're giving yourself a chance, like, you're literally giving yourself a chance to stop every puck.

It's funny because, you know, those backdoor open nets, quite often, what's... What follows it in those highlights is the announcer saying the goalie didn't have a chance, and I always like to rewind it and be like, did he give himself a chance?

Yeah. I mean, like, obviously, guys make good plays sometimes, not just part of the game, but I'd rather make a guy beat me in far back, but set and square, you know. And I think partially too, you kind of get it sometimes, depending on your size, you get in that depth range where, yeah, you're covering a lot of net, but the spots that are open are very some of the harder spots to get to on a good shot. It's like that one right over your pad, inside the post, or that one right by your ear. So it's like, I'd rather be able to move more than have to get those ones that are and then when you give up a rebound, it's weird because if I'm a foot or two outside the goal line compared to toes just outside the top of the crease, and let's say I'm on my angle kind of towards the, just to the left of the right circle, if I go down and I turn back and look at the far post, it's about two and a half or three feet when I'm back compared to five and a half or six feet when I'm on top of the crease.

That's a huge difference. And then you're not rushed, you don't get thinking ahead of yourself, for me at least. Then it's like, I can be here, make the save, and track it, and as long as I lift my foot and I'm following it to post right away, all I to do is get to the post and it's right there.

Totally makes... Yeah. Totally makes sense, right? Like, you you get out far and you got... You look at that, it looks like you need to catch a cab to get to that post when you're way out there sometimes.

Yeah. But it's, you know, it's weird though because there's obviously some guys where, you know, that's the... There's... You know, skating is such like a strength that it's... That's not a huge deal for them.

But I don't know, that's just my take on them, that's what I feel comfortable doing.

So I got to say, there's probably different points along the way. I'm guessing University of Minnesota Duluth wasn't the only time where you ran into somebody wanting you to do something different. It's something that kids see a lot. They move teams all the time, new goalie coaches, let's do this. How do you find that balance between staying true?

So here's the thing. So the thing, the whole thing at Duluth was the goalie coach is Brandon Nicklin, and I love that guy. Like he is one of my favorite goalie coaches I've ever had. So what happened was, at the beginning of my sophomore year, Hunter Miska had been there, and we went in the same year, and so he left after one year. And so that opened up a chance for me to start playing.

And so the first month, we had been kind of rotating goalies. This is my sophomore year, and I just totally, one day I just said, I'm going to change this', so I just went to the rink. Know, at first he didn't like it, obviously, and we of butted heads about it for a little while, but I was just really... And then after a little bit, it started working for me, then we kind of moved forward doing that because it's just like it was working and my skill set is different from other guys, and I'm not the biggest guy. And like that, just like with my strong points, it kind of just made sense and I just got hot right after we started doing it.

And so it just gave me... I think a lot of it was just a mental thing too, and it just gave me so much confidence. And so we just kind of ran with that and then like, he was, you know, obviously it's different than probably some guys that he coached, but he was really instrumental, I think, in me, like, getting to play that way. If you were like... Yeah.

Because not a lot of goalie coaches would be, you know, be like, yeah, this is working for you, so we're gonna help you get better at what works for you. Like, that's not easy, you know, for a lot of guys to maybe do.

Well, especially a style that, like you said, like, we we... I mean, I'm not invoking Lundqvist. Right? Like, I'll never forget. I think it was Cam Matwiv, he was his playing partner back in the time, and asked him about playing like that.

He's like, no one will ever play like Henrik again. Like, there was a uniqueness to it. Right?

Oh, right. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that's, like... Because no one can, like, do that. But, like, the certain the certain things, like, whole the whole approach of, you know, just playing a little bit deeper, I think is...

For a guy his size and like his reaction time and stuff is genius and like reading the shot. But that's the thing, if you're not reading the shot, it's... You can't do it.

That's what I

was gonna say.

He was your size too. Right? Like he was your size too and everyone's like, how can guy... The small guy play deeper? He needs to be further out.

And we always sort of hear that stereotype. Where does where does the the reactions? You know, I saw you play baseball. I'm guessing the reaction times in the good hands are probably tied to that a little bit. Patience in reading the release, where does that come from?

Like, is there... Is it all instinctual? Did you study a lot of video? How'd you become such a good shot release reader?

I think the, well, so I think like the shot, like reading the shot, I think baseball helped a lot with that because it's a lot of, like when you're hitting, you've to pick the ball up out of the pitcher's hand, and so depending on where his fingers are when the ball gets released, you can tell the pitch it is right there, and you have to make that decision in, like, the split second and also decide whether to swing or not.

Right.

So that, you know, like, that's kinda where, like, it's not the same, obviously, but it's kinda where I think that's where it came from. Well, the other issue

I remember, in Juco, a coach, a batting coach from Oklahoma State, Gary Ward, came and did some stuff with us. And I remember him saying, you can still see the ball... And I I wish I could remember. I can't remember it was the final. If you're still seeing that ball in the final 15 feet or something, I I don't...

Might not have that number right because it's been a long time I'm getting old.

Mhmm.

But you can hit at a major league level. So the idea of tracking and being able to, in in in addition to anticipating based on what you see coming out of the hand, the ability to track it further in, do you think that, like, do you feel like tracking is a strength as well for you?

Yeah. It's it's the same, you know, as anything like, whether it's like hitting or taking ground balls, like, taking a ground ball, like, gotta have your hands in a position where, you know, they're not behind you, you can, you know, see the ball goes into your glove. But it's the same thing, like, if you're hitting, whether you swing or not, It's not like I'm sitting here and the pitch goes by me and I don't move my head. Even if I'm not swinging, I'm watching the pitch go all the way into the catcher's glove, just like making a save. It's like, you're going to watch it go all the way off of you and then track the rebound so you can move right away.

So I think just the hand eye coordination thing was huge because I got in play hockey in the summer, and I put my stuff away and played baseball, you know, until I got out of high school.

Well, so just going back, and I don't know if I have this right, but looking through some notes and some old stories, coming out of high school, there weren't offers originally to play. You ended up in NCAA, but those offers weren't there. You were talking... And I know you you ended up going to the NAHL. Was baseball an option too?

Would you have gone and just played hockey and baseball somewhere at some point? Was that something you you thought about?

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, though. It's it's tough because, like, if you really wanna make it, like, a career out of it, like, percentage wise, hockey's prob... And, you know, you're living in Minnesota, like, hockey's probably the the safer bet. Like, I love baseball, you know, no one in my family ever played hockey, so it's... My dad was like a high school baseball coach for probably like five or ten years before I was even born, know, and him and my uncle kind of like coached all my teams until I got to high school and you know a lot of times we had a lot better baseball teams growing up than we did hockey teams, so I think that's where the whole competitiveness thing, you know, just whatever I'm doing, playing just to win is kind of how it got that way.

I always had to be playing something and it always had to be, like, a competition or else I was just... You know, that won't be a part of it really.

Okay. So the competitiveness that... I'm trying to draw lines between baseball and hockey. Tell me if I'm wrong. But, like, the one thing about baseball is you can be super competitive, but it's in moments.

Right? Like, it's not it's not like say playing a basketball where it's constant and there's constant action. There's an there's an anticipation and a read element to it and a patience required to it. Like everything sort of comes together and then bang, you gotta go.

Mhmm.

Ties there to being a goalie. Like, you're... You know, we're we're always on the ice, but we're not always in the action. Then when it comes to us, we have to be bang sharp. Do you do you see some similarities there that maybe...

Or am I stretching it here?

Yeah. No. No. For sure. I mean, I played shortstop a lot, and there was one in high school when I was younger.

I think it was only a sophomore. I played a lot of first base. And then just between that and hitting, it's like, you know, if you don't get a good jump on the ball, you know, whether it's a grounder, like, you have to make a decision right now, whether you need to stay back on it or you need to come in on it or, you know, it's kind of similar, I guess. Like, it's a lot of, like, you have to... It's not anticipation because you're not making your move before it happens necessarily.

Right. But it's... Like, you can't, like, be waiting until after it happens at the same time. Like, you have to be making the decision while it's happening, which is very hard because if you do it too early or too late and playing goalie, it's the pucks are not probably.

Yeah. Like like, you're probably reacting not when a ball's off a bat as a shortstop, but even as that swing starting, you're probably starting to have an idea where that's coming based on... Yeah. I love it. I love it.

Okay. So sorry. I didn't mean to geek out too much on baseball, but that... That's my that was my passion before goal ten weeks. So...

And and I'm I'm headed to Seattle, so I'm I'm quite excited for the winter classic this year because grew up I grew up a, a Mariners Yeah. Big big Griffey guy. So was the second game easier to sort of bring it back to this year?

Oh a hundred percent. Yeah. Night and day. And day. Was...

I mean, obviously obviously, like, New Jersey's got some guys, you know, when they get the puck buzzer on, it's it's something else. But, yeah, I mean, it's, the second game was just felt much more just like a normal game, you know, because it wasn't all the... Wasn't

All the extra stuff.

Yeah. It's just a normal routine, which, you know, it's not always going go like that. You know, it doesn't matter if you're in the NHL, if you're in the ECHL, like it's just trying to stay even keeled. So it's like, you don't want to get all super, super happy and, you know, excited and whatever when you win, and you don't want to get, you know, too down when you lose. So it's like, yeah, mean, we won the game, but I don't think I played as good as I could the first game, so it's Winning the game is always number one, but at the same time, there's always going to be games, especially when you get to the end of the year, where you have to get a shutout.

We have a couple of games last year likr that. There might be a game where you have to win and you can't give up a goal. So if you're going to go all year and say, oh, I didn't have a chance on this one, I didn't have a chance on this one, well, there's going to be a game where you need to put yourself in the position where you have a chance to get that one because we're going need that one. That might be the difference in going home in the end of April or, you know, playing until middle of June.

Played till the middle of June last year. What was that experience like from a... Like, do you take confidence out of a year where you you finish as as Calder Cup champion, Calder Cup MVP? Does it build throughout a playoff season? Did it exist throughout?

Like, do you get extra from a season like that to bring into this year, or are you just tired after a grind like that in terms of the off season and managing preparation for this year?

I mean, I think it gives you confidence. I think for me, it was more... Kinda gave me, like, the, like, I just proved to myself and to everyone else that I can do it, I can win at this level, you know? And as a team, we could win at this level. But those games don't help us this year.

Like, none of the saves I made last year help me now, so you have to, like, get over that. Because, you mean, I think you see it in the NHL all the time where, you know, like a guy wins the Vezina trophy and then the next year it's like, what happened? So it's very hard because, you know, it's like nowadays, you know, they have, like, you know, in baseball, they have like the heat maps of the guys strikes to what pitches they hit well and which ones they don't. Well, they got bad on a goalie for about every inch of the net now, and those guys watch it before every game. So like, the better the shooters are, you know, the more skilled they are, it's like you gotta be pretty well rounded and on your game or else it doesn't go well.

You have one night where you're just not seeing it well, and you're not reading the plays well. You can give about five, six goals. Like, even like at a New Jersey game, like, if everything was going good, it's like, well, they got four goals, and it's like, on top of the guys being that good, and maybe you don't have your A plus stuff, I think that's something too, even in college and playoffs last year. Think that's a difference what separates some goalies from maybe making that jump from juniors to college or college to pros is when you don't everything's great when you have your A plus stuff going. Everybody knows that.

You're not thinking, everything feels easy. It's when you have your B game or your C game. Can you figure out a way to fight a couple of pucks off or make one extra save and still figure out a way to give your team a chance to win a game? That's honestly the difference, because it's like a pitcher in baseball, it's like a quarterback in football. You're the person, you're the constant variable, and it's like if you can't just be like, Oh, don't have my A plus stuff tonight, well I guess, you know, it's going to be a tough night.

Right.

You just like you can't really give in when you don't have your... And that's just a mental thing, I think. That's I mean, the position is mental. It's

Well, and that's what's changed in the National Hockey League to a certain degree. I mean, I remember guys used to talk about getting away with a b game, And, man, like like you said, like, teams are so freaking good right now. Like, it's tough if you don't, so you have to find a way to battle through.

It gets... I mean, it just... It's harder in general every time you move up a step.

Well... And the and the league... The the game's probably never been harder for goalies. I've had a few guys say that. Just when you talked about Jersey, like, man, there's a swag and full of skill and speed and lateral plays.

Hey. You you mentioned proved it from the Calder Cup championship. If... I feel like when I look at the Wikipedia page or whatever, and I look at the sort of HockeyDB, feels like you've had to prove it at every level. Like, you know, college, there weren't offers coming out of high school.

You win championships there. Sign pro after that, you know, work your way up from there. Is that like... That fair? Do you feel like you've had to prove it at every level?

Yeah. I mean, that's just how it is nowadays when you're not, you know, when you're not six'three, six'four, in a first or second round draft pick. That's just part of it. So like, you know, if you're gonna sit around and pout about it, that's not going to help you at all. It's like either you know, do it the way that the path that's available for you or you can...

I can go back home and, you know, pump gas and whatever, which is nothing wrong with that, but that's that's not what I'm gonna be doing.

So Was there a point where you, like... Well, at what point in this path did you... Would... Did pro hockey, like, this is what I'm doing? Were were were you confident that this was this was the career?

I mean, I don't think there was there was ever really a point where I felt like, you know, like, I made it. Yeah, I think that's... Goalies, out of any job, maybe being a quarterback in the NFL, it's probably the lowest job security job that there is, maybe in the world, of anything. I mean, I don't know, don't quote me on that, but that's, you know, in the NHL, or let's say just in the American League or the NHL, there's like, what, 120ish spots, maybe a little more.

Between the two, yeah.

Yeah, and most of the guys that are in the goalies that are in the NHL aren't even from The U. S. So it's like you take the percentages of just being in the NHL and then it's like the whole world, know, like bit of a pipe dream if you really think about it, so you just got to take it day by day. You know, some days are not so fun. Like, it's not all, like, it's not all good.

Right. It's not all... Yeah. Sunshine and rainbows every day.

It's nuts. It's a grind. Like, I I can remember, like, a few times saying, you know, when I was younger especially, it's like you see stuff about guys complaining about stuff and whatever it is, and it's like, oh, can't believe these guys are really complaining, they're making this much money, and into a certain point, you know, like that's true, but most people don't really realize what it is to do it. Because it's like, you you go to your job every day and it's like, you don't know, you can get hurt, know, somebody take your job, and all that stuff can happen in literally a day. Like it's not even like it's, like most people, know, it's like you go to work, as long as you show up and do what you're supposed to do, they can't really fire you.

Can come and do as good as I can do, and that's going to help my chances, but at the same time, that still is zero guarantee that I'm going to get lose my job.

Right. You have to prove it every... I asked about proving it every year. You have to prove it every day almost at... In in this role.

Yeah. But... Yeah. I mean, I like it that way. I mean, that's something that motivates me.

And I think right or wrong, like, of the biggest things that motivates me is when someone says you can't do something and I just want to stick it to them and say, told you so.

And I think right or wrong, like, of the biggest things that motivates me is when someone says you can't do something and I just want to stick it to them and say, told you so. I know that some people might not like that, but that's too bad. Personally, I don't care. It's okay for people to say things about you like that, and then when you do what they said you couldn't do, then you can't tell them about it. I'm not going to sit there and brag, I'm probably never going to even say I told you so to someone, but like, just that I can say it to myself, feels, you know, really good.

Like, was playing in the NHL one of those things? There are probably people along the way that said Yeah. That wasn't

But that's, you know, that's been it. Happening at every level, you know, even from juniors of college or... I mean, I started out my first year here. I was even on an NHL deal. So it's like, you play yourself into it.

It's... For me, it's been pretty satisfying. So

I love it. Hey. I got one more. I'm sorry to do one more. It's sort of what I'm famous for on this, but I gotta ask about the influences there in Washington.

Scott Murray is a guy that, I've had the pleasure of being on the ice with and gotten to know over the years. You how we had on the podcast last year. We we... I love that we're finally seeing some... You know, you talk about the international influence on the position playing it.

We're finally starting to see some coaches get that opportunity from overseas. What have those two guys met and how have, you know, how have they blended with, you know, Hunter Sheppard hockey? How have... How has that process been in terms of how you like to play the game and how they might have expectations on the game being played? I'm guessing Juha likes the active hands.

Yeah. I mean, both, you know, good relationships with both of them. They're both great guys. I would say, like, I don't know, for me, for me at least, like, a lot of the thing with the goalie coach is just having a good relationship. I mean, it's not to the point where they're like a sports psychologist, but they know they played the position.

It's like you need to have someone where you can talk to and just say how you're feeling. It may not even have to be about hockey, but you can have someone where you can trust them and just be transparent with them 100%, you know that there's not going to be any repercussions or anything like that. It's pretty nice. Can just... But that's the thing with any goalie coach.

Realistically, I've had five goalie coaches in my life, K. And not turning my dad, which that was, like, the, you know, the rink in the backyard. But Lane in Bismarck

That was NAHL?

Honestly, I probably wouldn't have made it to college without them. Yeah.

And was it was it just more of the mental stuff, or were there some were there some also Yeah.

I mean, it was a few, like, technical things, but it was more just like, know, just read and react and, like, trust your game. We... I worked with him more than I worked with anyone. It was every single day I would be, you know... Because he was the head coach there.

And he was a goalie. Really? It it was

Did I read that you you turned down USHL opportunity because they didn't have a goalie coach? Okay. So that was important to you.

It was.

And he was important to you, obviously.

Yeah. Well, I mean, my first year there in Bismarck, I was terrible. Like, the first half of the year, couldn't stop anything. And it was, like, every day I would text him, like, the night before and say, like, can we do goalie ice early tomorrow? And you make me do these skating drills where it was like, start in the corner and you would C cut up to the blue line, and then you would shuffle all the way across, and then go up to the other blue line, and shuffle all the way across, and then back down into the corner, and it was like shuffles, t pushes, butterfly slides, and then one other one where you're kind of like spinning, and it was like, he wouldn't come on the ice, step on the ice until I was done.

You know? And then there was like, my second year there, I need to play games, practices, you you have to practice obviously, like you need to work on your stuff. Yeah. But there's nothing in the world that I can substitute for games. Between preseason playoffs and regular season, he let me play like 65 games a year, you know?

And in my development, that was gigantic. It was huge. And then when I went to Duluth, know, Scott's down, and he's like a guy, he likes to go with one guy for the most part. And when my sophomore year, I took over, he let me play 115 games in a row. And then it's like when I was growing up, sports, Pee Wees, Bantams in high school.

In Minnesota, you play each level for two years, so it's like two years Squirts, two years Pee Wees, two years Bantams, and then you have about three years of high school usually. And there was no goalies in the grade above me, and there was only one or two other goalies in my grade. And so every year when I'd be my first year at a certain level, would make the Squirt A team or the Pee Wee team or the Bantam team, and that'd be the only goalie. And so I went five or six years in a row growing up where I'm playing like 50 games in a winter, and it's like nowadays there's three or four teams in every organization. Every single team has two goalies, and it's like, well, you wonder why?

You know, it's like, I'm getting twice the games as every other kid. You know, so I think that's part of the thing nowadays where I don't think, you know, it kind of goes wrong when you're younger. It's like, well, you know, the players, they're all playing 40 games, but, you know, your kid's only playing 20 games. They're they're, you know, that's huge hockey. They're splitting right down the middle.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I could have done it growing up if it was just two boys. Especially if you know when you're better, you know? Like when you're younger, especially, it's like

That competitive nature.

Yeah. Oh yeah, it was just because I'm sitting watching I couldn't do that. That's anything. Gotta be the thing that's most, you know, because I just can't really sit still, so it's like, I gotta be the thing that's in the game all the time. So it's like, when I'm in baseball, I wanted to play pitcher and catcher, when I'm playing hockey, I had to play goalie.

Like, I was gonna play flag football or something like that. I had to play at the quarterback. Like... But that's not everyone's like that. You know?

It's

I love it. Hey, Hunter. I'm way over time here, but I I can't thank you enough for yours. Really, really enjoyed this conversation. Lots of great takeaways, lots of great stories, and I know our audience is gonna love it.

So thank you so much for the time.

Yeah. If you if you can give give the guy in Bismarck and set way inside of me and Brandon Nicklin a shout out, that'd be honestly huge for them too.

Well, you just did, but we'll make sure we link them as well.

Alright. Alright. Alright. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

Outro

There's a player that he... He's in Hershey. He's been up in the National Hockey League. Then he had the one day where he was recalled because they had some flu... Some sickness going through the team.

That was in in Vegas.

Vegas flu.

And Darcy... Yeah. You're right about that. The guys had... Were a little bit banged up, and Hunter had to fly across the country to get here.

He actually missed warm up. Darcy Kuemper was the only goalie in warm up that day as Hunter landed and was shuttled over and then backed up. He he backed out without ever going on the ice for pregame warm up.

Daren was Daren was calling the airline. He's like, hey. Could you just, like, not put the, like, not give them a gate for half an hour? Because I'm pretty close here to getting called out of the booth down to the emergency backup spot for Vegas. Just just don't let Hunter off the plane or hide his skates or something.

Oh, yeah. You got a buddy in baggage who can maybe, lose the bag?

I do have buddies in baggage over there.

Do you? Well, we'll ask for some help.

I'm I'm I'm not kidding. I'll get texts every now and then from players who are recalled of their sticks. So I'll get a text from the guys doing baggage and here's so and so sticks that have come through.

Oh, that's

Or I get a text of a of a hockey bag that is coming through. Like, I don't think that's right. I I know it's not HIPAA, like, you're not giving away health information, but are are you supposed to be sending me texts of people's luggage or their sticks maybe before the transaction is cleared?

You... That's funny

that you bring that up.

That's how these insiders do it.

This is a lot... This is a... He's playing the long game, Hutch. He's waiting for when we finally get our asses down to Vegas to see him. His buddies are gonna call.

Their luggage is here. They've landed. Daren's like, okay. I'm out. I'm gone.

Lose it. Next flight, lose their luggage. Might be half an hour to get out of town.

I've given up on you guys ever coming to Vegas. I thought for sure you guys would end up here early.

Draft draft draft this summer. Let's let's make it happen. Sphere. I'm a little scared of that thing. It's intimidating looking.

Why? Because it's round?

Yes. It's big. I don't know. Vegas scares me.

My wife went to U2 the other day and it was mind blowing. But you end up watching everything else as much as you'd watch the band. It's kind of strange.

Well, the band's old now anyways, I just wanna listen to the music.

Sit there, close your eyes. You go to a concert and close your eyes. I would say that's the same thing about Def Leppard, I love them. But if you just close your eyes and listen to music, it was amazing. A couple of summers ago, if you watch the big screen or we had good seats, you're watching up and you're like, that's that's not what I remember from my youth.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I had that with ZZ Top and this was a long time ago and we sat a little too close and you're like, those beards are glued on. Like, would just close my eyes and listen to the tunes.

Exactly what I did. That's that's zed zed top, Woody.

That's ZZ. That's right. You guys enjoy a couple of days of of downtime over the holidays. Really appreciate all the effort and the sacrifices that you make, your families make to help us in the goalie community and a big stick to you, and I can't wait to see where we go in 2024 post Christmas.

Exciting time, boys. Have a great Christmas to all our audience. Have a great Christmas and a happy New Year, and, we'll try and get one out before 2024, but it might be close.

It'll be close.

Thanks, boys. Merry Christmas, everybody.

And, Cam, keep on keeping on Iconic. Talk to you next week.