InGoal Radio Episode 238 with Matt Tomkins

Intro

Presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. Things are happening over there. This is InGoal Radio, the podcast, and boy, are we slammed heading into the holidays. Sense Arena feature interview. Matt Tomkins, he's a world traveler, and he is back in North America.

He gave it, another chance, and he is back in the National Hockey League, this year, up and down with the Tampa Bay Lightning with the return of Andrei Vasilevskiy, but a really cool story. And you will become a fan of Matt Tomkins. That is a money back guarantee. That is the most least risky statement that I will make on today's episode. Guaranteed as we, bring in the cofounders of InGoal Radio Podcast, InGoal Mag, David Hutchison, and Kevin Woodley.

Woody? Yes? I won't go there right away, but I I want you to be aware. I want a full rundown of the Ring of Honour ceremony inducting Roberto Luongo. I'm not gonna go there just yet.

Just warming him up.

Yeah. But I want that to be in the back of your mind.

You know what I love? I love that you offered a money back guarantee on a free podcast.

Yeah. I like I'm I'm really aggressive with my statements. You know what I mean?

Yeah. No. But seriously, you you talked to Tompkins? Oh, hey, dude. Dude, I was I was late for...

Once a month, I go on the PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich, and I was supposed to be on at around 02:00. And I thought I'd given myself a lot of time to talk to Matt, but the conversation was so good. Like, this is a long one, folks. Strap yourself in. It is amazing.

You will not want to stop listening. There's so much in there. But let's just say I was late for Dimitri and the PDO cast, and it's a good thing that it's a prerecorded episode, because there's no way I was walking away from this interview with Matt. It was awesome.

It... Just his entire story is engaging, and his love for the game is inspiring. It's absolutely wonderful, Hutch.

I talk to kids all the time about everybody has a different path in the game. Kids who worry that I wasn't on just the right team as a 10 year old. I'm not on this team as a 12 year old. Everybody has a different path, and he was on just the right team at one point. And then coming out of the Alberta Junior Hockey League is not a common path to the National Hockey League for a goaltender.

Going over to Sweden, like, there's so many layers to this that, make it really, really an interesting story, and he's a super engaging young man as well. So I, I loved listening to it, and I'm sure everybody else will today.

I'm... I I like that your approach with the kids is is to, you know, tell them everybody has a different path. I'd be a little... I'd be I'd be like, yeah. Whatever, kid.

All roads lead to beer league.

That's true. I think I've told this story before about, at Eli Wilson's camp where they... Well, it was Pete Fry who actually went around the room, and he he asked the kids, you need to tell me where you wanna play one day. What's your big goal? And, of course, the one kid comes and he says, I'm gonna play for the Montreal Canadiens.

The next kid, I'm gonna play for the Toronto Maple Leafs. The next kid, I'm gonna play in beer league. And it was just, just an awesome, awesome moment. But, hey, we all have a different path, and let's hope that involves everybody loving the game.

No. You know where we all end up? Beer league. Whether you're in the NHL or or whether you're Yeah

For sure.

Junior hockey player or whether you're just a minor hockey player that just loves the game and and you you don't go beyond, like, single a.

Hey. I legitimately end

up in beer league at some point.

And I hope that's really true because I actually feel bad for some of the guys in the National Hockey League who choose not to put on the skates afterwards. That tells you something about their opportunity to love the game.

And that is almost unanimous. Like, damn near every NHL goalie once they retire does not put the gear on. But here's But

they're in beer league playing defense.

Yeah. They all... A lot of play. Oh, yeah. Craig Anderson, but Andy went back and played in the Hall of fame game this year. And not that I wanna give

you suit up for the Sabers recently in practice

as well. Practice. That's right. It was, like, an hour and a half of... I was in Florida late in his career, and to see the amount of work that went in to him being able to even get out for a summer skate, like, an hour of preparation to get the body ready to go out for a summer skate so he'd be able to perform and not get hurt, Like, that just became too much. So the fact he he still loves it enough to put the pads back on now that he's retired, I think, is just awesome.

I think, getting ready to skate or doing a workout like yoga would be awesome over at The Hockey Shop. Source for Sports Langley. Could you imagine doing yoga

lead to the Hockey Shop for our listeners?

Yeah. Doing doing little Yogi, over at the at the the skate area at at the hockey shop. Just looking around, that would be my Zen place.

I am a little... I'm a I'm a little nervous about this one, Daren. We don't wanna give anybody any ideas. Like like, poor Cam. Like, he's already got enough work to do.

They're so busy over there. So now, like, we just have, like, four or five people roll in, drop their mats in front of the wall of blockers or the wall of gloves and just start, like, full up.

You do before the shop opens.

Little pigeon pose.

Leading a dynamic warm up.

Totally. Foam rolling?

Well, the problem is there's so much there's so much space. That's a good thing. The problem is you'd have to move your mats around to find all the, all the items because they are just packed full of stuff, and a lot of it's on sale right now. Matter of fact, we're gonna get to our Gear Segment in a little bit, but that's on sale right now. That's...

You know, it's... Our American friends have Black Friday. Up here, we used to have Boxing Day, which is kinda Canada's version of Black Friday. And so to get ahead of it, Cam's got some items that are already on sale now. You could even maybe grab them in time to slip them under the tree for a goalie in your life.

It's getting a little tight from the shipping standpoint, but if you're quick, you've got a chance. So, as much as we like to talk about all the new stuff that's coming in, and we've got a bunch of that coming up in the in the near future, there's still new equipment arriving, some stuff from Brian's. There's a lot of great things on sale right now at the Hockey Shop. So make sure you check them out. Whether it's for a last minute gift or just to save some money heading into the new year, The Hockey Shop and the hockeyshop.com has got a bunch of stuff on sale.

The only thing that can rival it would be, what's happening in the, digital world at ingoalmag.com, Hutch.

Oh, there's gonna be a lot of goalies busy on Christmas morning this year, Daren. One of the things that used to drive me crazy as a kid growing up is if I didn't get a present that I could use right away, whether it's something I could read or play with or whatever, there's a lot of goalies who are gonna be on their computer or on their phone this Christmas morning checking out InGoal Magazine because the gift subscription requests are just rolling in right now. All kinds of goalies are gonna be busy learning the game, loving the game with their subscription to InGoal Magazine. So what happens is you head over to the site and right up at the top, there's this big bright red bar. You cannot miss it.

Ingoalmag.com. And you can click there and send a gift to any goalie in your life. Maybe it's a son or daughter, maybe it's husband or wife, maybe it's just a buddy. You can send them a gift. You can put in your own custom message, and then Christmas morning or any other day you choose, they'll get a nice little message from you.

And if you're the kind of person who really wants them to have something they can open and not just wait for an email to arrive, We've also got some downloadable gift certificates there so you can download them and print them out and stick them in an envelope on the tree, something like that. So so many goalies are gonna be loving InGoal this Christmas as they, flip through those 800 plus articles, thousand plus videos. Just an awesome Christmas gift because they can enjoy it right away guys, and then they can enjoy it tomorrow and the next day and for the next 365. So awesome gift for the goalie in your life. And look, let's face it, it's not cheap to buy gifts for goaltenders, but a one year subscription in Goal is under $50.

Under 40 in your money, Daren.

Depends on what day. It might be better.

I was gonna say under 40 to Daren.

35.

Daren's getting ripped off on exchange if it's even $40 right now. My god. I had to buy some in The States the other day, and I felt like it was a mortgage.

The the process that the... That we have with the subscription to ingoalmag.com It's been going a couple couple of years now. People... Some people have been on this for a a while. Is it easy to to re up, or or do you have to order a brand new subscription? How that

work? Easy. Just head over to the same place, and there's a little link right at the top if you're redoing your gift. And, I mean, effectively, the process for you is exactly the same. It's just a little bit different for us on the back end, but you can absolutely re up your subscription.

We got lots of those coming as well.

Does it, tell you how to score a goal? Because... So we've had a couple of guys attempt to have a goalie goal put on the board this week. You know what?

You know what? What it does have is a multiple, article video series with Mike Smith, who was one of the great puck handlers, where he takes some young goalies through a whole bunch of puck handling drills. And I think if you work through those as an InGoal member and you practiced all those Mike Smith tips day, diligently, you'd be ready for what those guys did this week, Woody.

Yeah. I'm gonna send that one to Sergei Bobrovsky as well.

Oh, he's been watching, one of us in beer league, I think, for his tips.

I like the fact that that that they're... They seem to be getting more aggressive with it. Andrei Vasilevskiy and Devin Cooley both took shots at it this week. Neither one of them got got close. They were intercepted to be in the neutral zone, but at just different parts of their career, they're aggressive.

We know where Bob is in his career, Puck handling.

Yeah. No. I didn't... I still haven't seen the Vassi one or the Levi one, which is last night at the game you were working, Daren, but I like it. Like, I called it a few years ago in an article at nhl.com, and I feel like I was almost wrong because I thought we'd see more of this.

Like, teams pulling goalies down two with, like, five minutes left. I I thought we'd see more attempts, and we know guys can chuck it like never before. I actually thought we'd we'd have seen more goals over the last little while than we have. We got Jarry this year. We got Ullmark last year.

I I think it's common because these guys can all throw it, and they're getting more opportunities to do so with, you know, more goalie pulls earlier at the other end down a couple. So it's, I think it's great. It's awesome. Maybe my prediction of a few years ago will finally start to come true, and we'll start to see multiple goalie goals a year. Like, because everybody wants it on the resume.

Right? Like, we we talked about it at Flower. Right? Like, Flower, that's what... He's he's coming up on a thousand games.

You know? And we can... We'll save that discussion for next week, but Marc-Andre Fleury coming up on a thousand games might be the last goalie ever to reach that milestone, and I know he wants one before his career. And so, the good news is there's increased opportunity, and there's more goalies than ever that can actually get it down to the other end with height and velocity as we saw with Jarry and Ullmark landing it near the hash marks of the other end.

I wasn't thinking about it in either case watching Vasilevskiy play the Edmonton Oilers be... He was... It was the best game I've ever seen Vasilevskiy play. And he he like four. But...

Yeah. But but it it was it was the best game I've ever seen him play. Almost faced 60 shots in a day. It was spectacular. It never crossed my mind that he would...

At... In a game that was back and forth that he would go for it, but he did. And Devin Cooley, it was just... It was early in the goalie pull pull, and, it didn't cross my mind there either because they were kinda trying to hold off a push, and he didn't hesitate. He he grabbed it, and I think it surprised everybody in the rink that he went for it right away.

And maybe didn't get to all of it, but it was... It... I I stood up and grabbed Daren Elliott, who's the former goalie beside me, and he was pulling on his jack like, he's going for it. And I... I've never seen one in person, so I was I was all excited.

And he wasn't even on the team that I cover.

I've seen two. So it's it's pretty it's pretty cool when it happens for sure. And when you're in... When you're there and in that moment when it happens, it's... You...

You'll get one soon, Daren, much like Marc-Andre Fleury. You'll get one in your career.

Did Lou ever get one?

No. That was not a... That's not... That was not a strength of of Roberto's game as he'd be the first to tell you.

You if Lou if Lou had scored a goal for the Vancouver Canucks, would his number be retired instead of being on the Ring of Honour? I'm just I'm curious if that would have put it over the top.

Just poking the bear. Hey.

I thought it was cool that the twins brought him out of Jersey with a C on the on the chest because, of course, when he was captain, which is, hey. Like, a lot of people talk about that being a mistake, but Roberto talked to us about how proud he is of the fact he was named captain. You know? And I know Mike Gillis, the General Manager at the time, still insists, like, that was the right decision. It's just the position he played wasn't ideal for it.

But, he took a lot of pride in that. And so they gave him a jersey with because, of course, he had to just paint it on his chin because league rules prevent a goaltender from actually being the captain. The the whole thing, it was a great day. The ceremony was great in large part because of the way Roberto handled it, a fantastic speech. Even even Thatcher Demko getting a shut out that night and the lose that came with every big save and at the end of the night and when he did the sort of postgame, rinkside interview with the rinkside reporter in house, just everything was great.

And so I'm a little more reluctant to piss all over the fact that they should have retired his jersey and not made it the Ring of Honour. So let's just leave it at that. There is no doubt that his number should be retired in Vancouver. I understand... Actually, I understand to an extent the hesitation to do so because they had another franchise...

Great franchise icon where number one before him, and they put him in the Ring of Honour rather than retiring his number in Kirk McLean. And, obviously, Kirk was an incredible goaltender for the and led them to the ninety four Stanley Cup final just as Roberto backstopped the to the twenty eleven cup final, and they both came up just a hair short. Although, I would argue the team came up a hair short rather than the goalie, but the goalie always gets the focus. I mean, McLean in '94 was just brilliant. Like, that's...

You know, these are guys that made people fans. Right? Like, they're the... That... That's the type of players they were, the type of goalies they were.

Roberto brought respect to this franchise at a time when, you know, they hadn't... They weren't... They were flirting with it, but they never fully earned it. Right? The West Coast Express years, they were great, but they weren't...

They never became sort of... Like, he just brought a level of respect that they didn't have before. And so there's so many reasons to be retired. I'd say retiring both. Put McLean and Luongo up there.

Nobody's ever wearing it again anyways now, but they didn't. I think it shows a little pettiness. I think some of that pettiness probably comes from the highest levels of the franchise from ownership based on some of the discussions you hear. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I think I think we saw the owner sent out a tweet about Roberto being one of the greatest Canucks goalies of all time.

And on that, like, there's... Come on. Like, give your head a shake. He's the greatest. Like, statistic you wanna measure it by, he's the greatest.

No. Did he win a Vezina? No. You know why? Because, a, the general managers vote on it, and they got a few wrong over the years.

But, b, he played in an era with Roy, Brodeur, Lundqvist coming up. Like, they're... They... You know, how many times was he a finalist? So, yeah, like, I'm not ranting as much as I promised because I've calmed down because the ceremony was really good, and Roberto's at peace with it.

So why should the rest of us take issue with it? But there's plenty of issue to be taken with it. His numbers should be hanging from the rafters along with the Sedins, beside the Sedins. Hell, this is a franchise that retired Pavel Bure's number, and he didn't... He asked for a trade.

He forced his way out of Vancouver. When Roberto agreed to a trade, it was part of them saying, hey. Maybe this would be the best thing. It wasn't him stomping his feet, at least not until our friend John Tortorella sat him out at that. But I I...

I'm starting to get going here, so I'm gonna I'm gonna cut it off. One is Lou. He's great, and that's the most important thing. And he was great with everything that went on, and that's the most important thing. So that's why I I should cut this off and and not get too carried away.

He should be in... Jersey should be retired. He's a first ballot hall of famer. That's the respect you pay first ballot hall of famers. I think they missed the note on that, but as usual, he struck the night with the right tone and the right note on everything he did while he was here.

Yeah. It was a really cool ceremony and a fantastic speech. And I give him credit. No notes up there, and he had things prepared in his head. It wasn't like he freewheeled it, but, he he didn't have that safety net there.

It was it was it was a a very relaxed, casual, awesome moment.

It was... And and how cool to have his kids there to introduce him. Our dad, Roberto Luongo. Like, they... It was...

The whole night was perfect. They they just missed on on on where they put him in the rink.

If you see Woody in and around the Lower Mainland, and you wanna bring up this conversation, head over to The Hockey Shop before you do so and grab a Warrior Ritual F1 pro mask, because they're they're they're on sale, and it's part of our Gear Segment today. And that would be the best way to have that discussion with Woody. Put on the bucket and then get him riled up.

Make sure he doesn't have a stick in his hand.

Yeah. If he... If he's got a stick in his hand, at least your head will be protected.

Gear

So we're gonna get into the Warrior Ritual F2 mask with a quick review. It's an item they've had in store for a while, but we just never got to reviewing it. It was a sort of an update of an earlier version that we did review years ago. That's the Ritual F1 mask, which is still a pro level mask, and they still have some of those. They actually stocked up on them recently.

So they have extra, and it's on sale for just $699 at The Hockey Shop and the hockeyshop.com. So as much as we're gonna get into the Ritual F2, they've still got the F1, and it's on sale. I am gonna leave you with a little tease, however. Roberto Luongo joins us joins us for a Gear Segment that's coming up in a couple of weeks at the Hockey Shop.

Really?

Yes.

I don't know anything about this.

Yeah. It's a top secret thing. So you're gonna have to stay to... You're gonna have to stay tuned for that one. But for now

We're gonna to come to that episode, Daren. Yeah. I don't wanna miss that one.

Somebody's freezing us out.

It's already been filmed.

I literally have no idea what he's talking about.

It's already been filmed. So now that I got you

That's me.

And we have a new mask to show you today. Well, a new... An updated version of what was a new product from Warrior, the ritual mask. Yes. The F1.

Now it's the R F2, ritual F2. Pro. Pro. Right. We're only looking at top tier despite the fact that Cam's in this video.

We're actually only looking at the top tier mask today. We'll do the lower levels, which Cam fits with another day.

So what's different about the new F2 mask pro? So they've updated the carbon, and they've updated the foam. So this is a recipe that is already working really well in the F1 mask. It kinda quietly, you know, was in the background, maybe not as popular as some of the Bauer, you know, CCM, other options that were on the wall, except it shouldn't be overlooked for a couple of reasons. One, again, Warrior found a winning recipe with that F1.

Very protective, very durable, which is fantastic. And the overall foam package on the inside was quite comfy and actually worked quite well. There are a few small issues which have been ironed out now with the F2 in terms of... For its update. So looking into, first of the foam package, go with a straight blackout foam, dual density, high impact absorbing.

They do have their dynamic shock foam that they've been using in the past. Great overall protection, ridges up, upon impact, so it's helping to stop that energy transfer going into your head. Updating the carbon. So now they're using their Minimus 20 carbon. As before, it was a Minimus 120 carbon.

So is this a case where Warrior who's been a leader in the stick category for a while is is taking some of that technology from sticks and applying it to masks?

That's correct. So, again, with Warrior's stick line, especially their v series and their m series, really kind of marched ahead, you know, with using those different style of carbon, how it's being laid in the stick, and how it provides a little bit more rigidity overall. That same has been transferred down to the mask itself. So, very high impact resistant, not a lot of rattling when it comes to, you know, those hard slap shots off the head, and durable, which is a key highlight for these guys as well. Sometimes in carbon fiber mask, you make something so rigid that that splintering happens because it's so rigid, and that vibration has nothing where it go and separates the layers.

Not something we've seen in these masks. That's for sure.

The feedback's been really good in the RF 1. You've brought in the RF 2 with the improvements. The pro level mask, like, this is a mask that that will stand up at the highest levels for... From a protection standpoint?

Correct. And it

also playing junior hockey, something like that, I'm still safe in this.

Yes. Or if you're playing plus 50 beer league hockey as you are, you will still be safe. Look.

I aged ten years in the span of this segment from plus 40 to plus 50. The chirps are just so good, Cam. I noticed a little layer of sort of like rubber in between the bottom of the cage and the mask. That's just designed to sort of make sure that... It's also around the top.

That's just designed to sort of make sure if the cage absorbs into the mask So it's facing.

As a goal, you're gonna get hit in the face.

Usually by your teammates in warm up

the... That rubber tubing is again to help stop with that chipping of that paint coming off when you do get those impacts. That's something that other mass brands have adopt too as well and definitely a good feature to call out.

Okay. So there is actually one more feature on this mask that is... We've been done a lot of Source for Sports and Hockey Shop exclusives. Exclusive. This is a Warrior exclusive in the industry.

This, as far as I know... And Daren Millard, our host, is gonna love this. As far as I know, this is the only mask, and this come with this beautiful little bag too, but the only mask in the industry that comes stock with its own.

This is a new look. We're gonna pioneer it here. You saw

it first. I've never felt safer.

You've never looked better.

I mean, that's a pretty low bar. So Dangler for Daren included in the bag. I know Millard right now is like, where can I get the R F2? Where can he get a Cam? And where can he call if he has questions about sizes?

Because it looks like there are different sizes available.

Yes. You can give us a call here at (604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790. Or check it out at the hockeyshop.com. But one more key note. Oh.

We have one more thing to show off.

Show it off. I can't balance this on my ears forever.

Because you were talking so much about the F1 mask. We have the f one on sale. Quite a number of them. Good sizing all the way throughout the curve. Small, medium, medium, large, large, extra large here at the shop on sale.

So your chance to get the pro helmet. So will those still last

It also comes with the dangler. Danglers for Daren, danglers for days. Lots of Warrior in stock here at the Hockey Shop. Check them out at the hockeyshop.com. Give Cam a call if you have questions about sizing or if you've got questions about the lower level models, lower price points that he has in the Warrior Mask.

Cam's got your answers. Big Warrior guy. Thanks, Cam.

One add. One add. Just... I know I know you guys are going, but Woody's still here. Cam Cam had to get back to to work.

When you grab that Warrior Ritual F1 mask, put a dangler on it. It's it's a perfect time. If you don't wear a dangler, add one. If you do wear a dangler, it's good to have a couple just around because you take a shot because they protect you. Sometimes they'll break.

Grab a dangler.

See, Daren What do Daren Daren, Daren, I know that you normally listen to the Gear Segment, and I... And we've kinda put you on the spot this week.

Yeah. Yeah.

And didn't give you the opportunity to listen to the segment before we recorded this. You are gonna love the Warrior Ritual F2 and F1 mask, Daren. You know why?

Because it's down low?

Because it comes with a dangler.

It does?

Yep. I see. Look how excited you are. We should have told you off the hop, then this would have been the greatest promo for a mask sale ever.

I even asked because I I didn't have a chance to turn around, on the game. But that is, that is awesome. I apologize that I didn't get a chance to

It's not your fault. It's our fault.

Wow. That is... I'm so excited about that. What... Every

Look at him as a dangler.

This is safety first, ladies and gentlemen. Just throw in the dangler, make it work.

I was thinking a dangler would be one of those great self serving gifts. You know? Kid goes out to the hockey shop, buys himself a dangler, and then puts it under the tree for mom and dad because it'll make them happy to know that he's wearing it.

Yes.

Self serving gift. Perfect. That's what Christmas is about, boys.

I will... I'll be honest. I don't like the the coloured danglers, the different... The the mirror danglers, anything like that. I just want the clear...

I wanna be able to see. I don't want any distraction. I'm I'm not that fancy or forward thinking. I just want a plain old protective dangler that makes a loud noise when the when the shooter... Even sometimes it doesn't even hit the dangler, but it'll rattle around up there, and the shooters will go, oh, I'm I'm sorry.

Where where where did I get you? And then you kinda pretend that you're a little bit hurt, and it makes them so they don't shoot back up there again. But it's even productive in that sense even when it doesn't hit you.

I like that. I like that, Daren. We haven't heard that angle on your sales pitch for danglers. Alright. That's a new one.

You... We gotta start making a list of Daren's reasons to get danglers beyond safety.

Daren's dangler. Before we get into, Matt Tomkins who's standing by, some... Turn on the light in the green room to let him know that, he's supposed to head over here, for the interview. Did you guys see... I'm sure you did.

But what was your reaction to Pyotr Kochetkov, you two legends? I'm curious. So your, play off of the penalty shot save against Brady Tkachuk. Matthew, I'm sure looked at it, Matthew Hutchison, and and had a great feedback on it. David, what, what was your take?

Well, my first take was about as excited as you are when you found out that danglers are on the Warrior masks. I was so excited. I jumped up. To me, that was one of the best I've ever seen. The angle that I saw it from initially, I couldn't tell that he'd taken Tkachuk's feet out.

I actually thought that he'd gotten the puck clean, but regardless the aggressiveness, the full out straightaway, it was exciting. And I immediately clipped it and sent it to a bunch of people on, on text message, and I I just thought it was beautiful. And, of course, there's been a whole lot... I... Of course, there was what happened afterwards.

I I love, how Kochetkov stood up for himself and was ready to go. I thought that was fabulous. But then I saw a few people say, you know, any other player takes another player's feet out anywhere out on the ice. It's a penalty. And so why do goalies...

It might even be our own Paul Campbell who said that, said he might lose his Union card and I'm beginning to think it's about time to take his Union card away because... And this was... I actually brought it up. You mentioned Matthew. I brought it up with him.

He happens to be an official as well. And I said, what do you think? And he said, well, I mean, strictly speaking, you're right. It's a trip if you take a guy's feet out. But if you also look at hockey, everywhere on the ice, there are things happening that that's just part of the game and we're okay with it.

You can cross check a guy in front of the net, and the refs don't do anything about it because it's just something that happens in hockey. Along the boards, as long as you're popping his hips and not his upper back, they don't have a problem with what you're doing. There are things that happen all over in hockey. It's just part of the beauty of the game. You may or may not agree with all of them, that make a part of the

greatest examples all that that you grew up with was if you dove chasing somebody down on a breakaway and you got the puck first First.

Yeah.

Then tripped them.

That's out of

the rules now, though. Right? What's that?

That's out of the rules now, though.

Yeah. Yeah. But that was one that we that we grew up on. It's like

For sure. Sure.

Then you tripped him, it wasn't a... Wasn't pedaling. I'm like, what? Thank goodness they they changed that.

Yeah. So I I like that. And then, you know, the other thing that came to mind for me, guys, was the fact that if Tkachuk was coming in off the rush with the puck, he would not hesitate to go straight through the goaltender to put it in the net, and it would actually be legal even though the goalie doesn't have the puck. Strictly speaking, you can't bowl over a person without the puck. So there's a lot of interpretations of the rules, and I just think he would play it dirty.

So I got no problem with, Kochetkov pulling that move, Woody.

They have stopped protecting goalies to a degree that I would like. I knew this was gonna happen as soon as we brought the... I, like, I called it. As soon as we had the goalie interference rule come in in the video reviews, there's goalie interference on damn near every play. So I knew they would have to, like, change the rules or they'd lose too many goals, and they have.

And now goalies aren't protected. Like, goal interference almost... Like, it almost never gets called. It's gotta be, like, so egregious. And this whole used to be able to...

If you got there first, it was your ice. Now if you're outside of the blue, you're, I don't say fair game, but damn damn near feels like it on some nights. And so I'm sick of it. You wanna come through with speed? I love that Kochetkov threw out a little poke check.

Like, that's the risk. If you wanna attack with that much speed and come in that fast, better have your head up because I'm coming out. And so I'm for it. Hey. Could Kochetkov put himself at risk?

He could end up getting run over pretty good, and he's put a lot of his body down down at ice level near where the skates are flying. So there is an element of risk, but I love it. Like, the the idea that we're just gonna sit passively back and let guys come through us, forget it. Like, forget it. And maybe there's a little bitterness here because I'm sick of it at beer league, and I need to teach me how to do it properly.

Because if you look, like, execution matters in this. If he were to just come sprawling and diving out at Tkachuk, that puck trickles in. Like, he gets that bottom pad flat along the ice. If he turns it over, sort of the face of the pad along the ice, that puck trickles in right underneath him. Like, that's where the puck eventually goes, nowhere near where the poke check is.

Johnny Bower, baby. Like, time to throw this out. I I get sick of guys coming in with so much speed that they can't control themselves, and they end up making contact whether they score or make a move or whatever, and they're clipping and you're dropping in the butterfly, and they got knees through the head. And, yes, I'm a little biased right now because that cost me two and a half months of being able to play hockey or live a normal life for a lot of... You know, the first couple weeks of it.

I'm sick of that crap. I wanna learn how to do a Kochetkov and take these guys out at the knees. Screw them. Screw

them. Marc-Andre Fleury. Marc-Andre Fleury, used it, more than anybody.

I think Think he would give me some concussion.

Yeah. See, think he got banged up with it.

Yeah. See, that that is the risk. Teach me how to protect myself on the ice and take other guys out because I'm sick of just... I'm sick of sitting back and goalies being the victims on these things. I love the aggression.

I would not have been surprised if they granted a redo on that penalty shot because he didn't touch the puck, because he tripped Tkachuk. Like, if in... If you're in a shootout scenario, I could see them then go back out, and wouldn't that be interesting?

Well, Listen. We're getting the benefit of the doubt on the shootouts now too, a, with the, like, the second touch. And that's the other thing. The set... Like, the first...

The one on Joseph Woll clearly was a second touch, like, off the pad and back off the stick. But was it Tristan Jarry the other night where

I don't know if it was Jarry, but it would... I remember the play that you're talking about.

I think it was on Zucarella where he... The goalie got a piece of it with the poke check, but the puck kept going the direction the player was trying to pull it, and he tapped it in on the other side into an empty net. And they called that back because the goalie had gotten a piece of it. Is that correct, Daren?

No. It's because there wasn't a shot attempt is my understanding. So so the reason you can't have, like, a double touch is you've already made the shot. Now you can't score on a rebound. Whereas in theory on the the one this week was he didn't actually take a shot.

So the fact that it bounced off the goalie and he then got to take a shot is

fine. And that puck counted? That one counted. Okay.

So I got it wrong. So if it hadn't counted, would have been like, every goalie is just gonna be trying to throw something out to get a piece of it. Right? Like

Yeah. Fair fair game.

Yeah. Listen. I got... Just... Hey. Listen. I I I should be careful on the rank because I'm obviously biased because I've gotten run a few times at a stupid level of hockey. All roads lead to beer league as we started this whole episode with. But you do have to be careful, as Daren said. Like, Flower's gotten a concussion off, but you are throwing yourself out into a dangerous area. I just think that if you wanna take that risk, you should be allowed to.

Feature Interview - Matt Tomkins

Our feature interview brought to you by Sense Arena, Sense Arena VR, NHL Sense Arena, is Matt Tomkins, this week. And, Sense Arena is, certainly, the choice for goaltenders who want to, at least, without ice time, take their game to another level. Woody, you've done some, pretty good research into this.

Yeah. I know, NHL Sense Arena rebranded as NHL Sense Arena from Sense Arena back on November 1. They've brought the NHL to you. You can go into their locker rooms, NHL locker rooms, compete with, against, as NHL teams, like wearing their jerseys, against players wearing other jerseys, against other goalies in leagues and competitions. They've really sort of brought the the game element to it.

But this idea of sort of bringing the NHL into Sense Arena was always kinda funny to me because the NHL was already or or Sense Arena was already in the NHL. We knew that from our experiences with Devin Cooley and Joey Daccord and Eric Comrie and guys who were playing in the show that used the product. And so it was time for an article on it. I promise you, we teased it recently that we had talked to Joey about using it in intermissions to dial in his glove. So that was the lead in a story that ran at nhl.com this week talking about how these guys are using this tool.

Interestingly enough, when I wrote the story, Eric Comrie had told me he he used it more in the off season and he'd stopped using it in season as much, but then he had a little injury, and he was using it in season this year. Obviously, using it. We know about Devin Cooley using it. So, yeah, listen. This is...

And Bill Ranford is in the article talking about the uses and the benefits of it from our podcast interview with him. There's just... This is clearly a tool that is... As much as they've added a game element, and we all love to compete and play games to the new launch, This is very much a development tool that's being used by the goalies at the highest level to keep themselves sharp when they can't get on the ice. So if anybody's out there thinking, well, it can't be realistic enough to actually help me get better as a goaltender, If it works for these guys in the middle of a game, it can work for you.

And so make sure you check out that article. We'll have a version of it up at ingoalmag.com as well early, I guess, early next week or late this weekend. As you're listening to this, you can check that out as well. So just, you know, confirmation of what we've been saying for years. This is a legitimate tool for goalies, and, it's never been better, and it keeps getting better, which is one of the points that Bill and Joey Daccord make in the article.

Grow your game over at NHL Sense Arena, and that sets us up for the feature interview with Matt Tomkins, who is an Olympian, is National Hockey Leaguer, whose journey has taken him all over the world, and he's stuck with it. And he will offer multiple lessons and inspiration.

Can I just say, I'm just? We're just gonna leave this and let it roll because it speaks for itself. Obviously, he had his first NHL win this year in Montreal. Well, I like like, what a Mecca. We talked about how how significant that is to goalies, with Casey DeSmith in last week's episode.

This is a long interview. Make sure you stick around to the end. Woody, being the dummy that he is, tends to go a little... We we we start with this season and and what he accomplished, but I tend to go a little chronological after that. Right?

Just sort of work through the different steps of his career, and I may have left some of the best to the last in terms of some really great takeaways and some training that he's done with some friends of the show, including James Wendland and our friend Lyle Mast in Kelowna and really gets into the specifics of how that changes the way he plays and the way he thought about the position and tracking pucks, things that he hadn't done before that he really believes have made him ready for the opportunity to play in the NHL this season. I kinda buried the lead a little bit and left that one to the last. So if you're hesitating at all about sticking around for an hour and fifteen minute interview, don't because there's gold at the end of it.

Matt Tomkins, this NHL Sense Arena feature interview on InGoal Radio, the podcast.

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast, first time guest, the guy that we actually had hoped to catch up with up in the interior of British Columbia this summer, but just missed him in part because of the fires that happened there later on, in the summer, Matt Tomkins. And since we missed you, a lot has happened. There is so much, Matt, that I wanna ask you about in terms of your path, but let's start with most recently. Start the season with the Tampa Bay Lightning after signing with them in the offseason. Get your first start in the National Hockey League and your first win.

What have the last couple of months been like for you?

Yeah. It's been pretty crazy. It's been, been quite a few months for sure, like you said. And over the summer, not really sure what to expect, and then, all of a sudden, you kinda get an opportunity open up right in in the start of training camp. And, yeah, it...

It's just been amazing. I mean, it's been been awesome to finally be able to check those boxes in my career and, you know, had such an amazing experience there with the group there and and all the guys, and, it's just been really special. So, been pretty crazy couple months, but it's been a lot of fun.

What's it like to... Like, first off, like, as you come into camp, and then everybody in the hockey world gets the news that Andrei Vasilevskiy is gonna miss a little time. Walk me through your mindset sort of coming into camp, and and I was gonna say how it shifts when you get that news, but I'm guessing probably doesn't shift. Like, that's part of the... Being successful as a goaltender is not overreacting to changes around you.

Yeah. Totally. I have two sides to that. Obviously, yeah, you don't wanna change your perspective and and the process, but, naturally, of course, we're all humans, and and that takes over to an extent as well. So kinda just backing it up.

Obviously, you know, coming into camp, I wasn't really sure what to expect, to be honest. I mean, obviously, two years removed from being in North America. And then even at that, you know, we had the the COVID season before that and, you know, a couple different experiences with, you know, training camps in those regards. But was just really excited. I mean, there was a great opportunity to come back to North America and and get the mix again.

And it was something I really missed while I was over there in Europe. So I was so excited that something came up with the Lightning and had the chance to come back. And then, you know, coming back, that was the intention of, hey. I wanna give myself the best opportunity to play in the NHL, and it happened a lot quicker than I anticipated for sure. But, yeah, I mean, it it was certainly exciting, nerve racking, you know, all those things when you you hear the news about Vazi and and, you know, your mind starts to race a little bit and what's gonna happen.

You know, are they gonna look to do a trade? Are they gonna watch the waiver wire? What's going on? So, of course, those thoughts took over pretty early on. But then, you know, once it all settles, you really start to think about, you know, how can I give myself the best opportunity now that this has happened and really take advantage of the opportunity?

So really just approach one day at a time. And, you know, as cliche as those things sound, it it really is what gave me the best chance of having, you know, the camp that I did. And I think I impressed a lot of people, and, obviously, you know, they were happy with my camp enough to to keep me there for the first couple months. So everything went really well.

I was gonna say there's so many little threads I wanna pull on there, and we'll get to Sweden and the decision to go there and then the decision to come back and the Olympics in the meantime. But you said it, You know, one one day at a time, one shot at a time when we're on the ice, often the easiest thing for a goaltender to say, but the hardest thing to do. Was there any... Like, how long the way have you picked up any advice or worked with anyone that sort of, you know, gives you tools that you could share with young goaltenders in terms of how to do that? Because like you said, it's really easy to say, but when everything's happening around you, it can be really difficult to stick with it.

Yeah. A 100%. There's been so many people help me along the way, you know, from goalie coaches and coaches and teammates and, you know, mental skills coaches. Everything's kinda in the mix. So you you kinda pick up different tools and and things that work for you along the way, and it it really...

It's such a challenge, though, to be able to take that mindset of, you know, approach each day at a time and get better every day. You know? A lot of people just say those things and and don't really know what they mean, but as you kinda get older and you experience more of what hockey and and life and everything has to throw at you and different things that you have to process and and deal with, you really... I just was able to understand that, especially being over in Europe. And last year was a big, big step for me in terms of that mindset where, you know, I wanted to give myself the best chance of getting back to North America and and taking each each day and and, you know, really getting the most out of the season that I could.

And it's so easy to get ahead of yourself or or think a lot in the past of what's happened or what may happen, but really just being present with all that stuff and really learning what you can control is kind of the best way that I could explain it. So, obviously, as as goalies, we know there's so many uncontrollables that you think are in the realm of what you can control.

And it's so easy to get ahead of yourself or or think a lot in the past of what's happened or what may happen, but really just being present with all that stuff and really learning what you can control is kind of the best way that I could explain it. So, obviously, as as goalies, we know there's so many uncontrollables that you think are in the realm of what you can control. But especially when you're young, you know, that's that's an easy thing to get caught up in and and a tough thing to decipher of what falls into which category, but definitely just an experience thing for me that I've, you know, learned how to how to deal with what I can and prepare myself as best possible. And... Yeah.

So it's it's been a a long journey, but a lot of tools that I picked up along the way with that.

Any you can share... Any that you could share for... Like, is it as simple as, hey. Like, this is the task I have today. This is what I'm setting out to accomplish, and I'm gonna check those off. Maybe even giving yourself a moment to think about big picture stuff, but making sure you bring it back to the task at hand.

Yeah. So the biggest change for me was, you know, when you grow up, a lot of people talk about having goals, and, you know, you wanna set your goals as high as you can and and everything. It actually wasn't until I read a book. It's called Atomic Habit... Habits by James Clear.

I'm sure most people are familiar with it. It's been, you know, a bestseller for a long time. And he talks a lot in that book about how it's one thing to have goals, but another thing to have, what's the process of achieving those goals? And, of course, you know, the title of the book, Atomic Habits, he he talks about all these little things that add up, you know, to creating this process of achieving those goals. So I really...

I have these goals of playing in the NHL and, you know, being a top goalie and doing all these great things. But often, it was overlooked of what are the little details that I can do every single day that's gonna make me a better goalie, a better person, you know, whatever it may be. So, really, that was just a a mindset shift I had over the last couple of years where I really... I take pride in what I do every day. I really put a lot of emphasis into the details of, you know, being a professional and and, you know, doing this every day as a job and what's the best that I can be of myself and, you know, all these different tools that are picked up along the way of, you know, adding to the routine or, you know, dealing with different people or or learning these things. It's all been, you know, a work in progress over the last decade or so. So it's really exciting to kinda see it all come together and feel really good about what you're doing every day.

You know, when I first read them, I read through a couple times now, I really was able to apply it to hockey. And, you know, I was like that when I was younger and first term pro. Of course, you know, I have these goals of playing in the NHL and, you know, being a top goalie and doing all these great things. But often, it was overlooked of what are the little details that I can do every single day that's gonna make me a better goalie, a better person, you know, whatever it may be. So, really, that was just a a mindset shift I had over the last couple of years where I really... I take pride in what I do every day. I really put a lot of emphasis into the details of, you know, being a professional and and, you know, doing this every day as a job and what's the best that I can be of myself and, you know, all these different tools that are picked up along the way of, you know, adding to the routine or, you know, dealing with different people or or learning these things. It's all been, you know, a work in progress over the last decade or so. So it's really exciting to kinda see it all come together and feel really good about what you're doing every day.

Well, the other recent experience that I'd love to hear how you managed and might be able to pass along some advice to young kids or, you know, junior goalies or even new pros. You talk about the NHL dream. Once it becomes reality, you've managed to maintain a day to day focus. You get through camp. Now you're your first start against the Ottawa Senators.

How do you... You you said there were nerves. There's gonna be. That's human nature. How do you channel them in the right way?

Yeah. Again, for me, it all just kinda came back to process, and, I think a younger version of myself would have thought that the entire game was in my control, and and, you know, I could dictate the outcome with the right mindset or the right approach. But I think at this point in my career, I understood that, you know, hey. I do my thing. Like, my...

I trust my game. I've, you know, gotten to this point by doing exactly that. So now that I'm here, nothing needs to change. So I actually really enjoyed, you know... Of course, being in the NHL was a dream come true, but I really enjoyed, like, having those challenges and opportunities of getting to play games and, you know, practice with the best in the world.

And I think, again, where maybe a lot of younger goalies or even a younger version of myself would be... You just get so nervous and overwhelmed and and anxious about these different situations that, you know, really, if you break it down, nothing changes as far as what you've done to get to those points. And so I really just... I had a lot more enjoyment and a lot more fun really playing in those games than I would have a few years ago. So that that was really exciting that I feel like at this point in my career, I can understand that, like I said, I I know what I can control.

I know that I have a lot of trust in my game. So just about execution and and, you know, the chips kinda fall with... Wherever they do, and a lot of it is just just luck, really. I mean, that's... There's so much that you just...

You can't even think about. And if you think that it's in your control, you're... It's a it's a long thread that's gonna unravel.

Okay. So it's not in your control, but to have whether you wanna say the stars align, you get the start in Montreal, you pick up that first win in a building like that, Western Canadian kid, you know, obviously, we've all been massive freight... Carey Price fans here at InGoal, over the years and all the time we've got to spend with him. Like, I've got a Ken Dryden tattoo on my arm for crying out loud. Right? Like like, that... That's the mecca for us goaltenders.

Like, what did it what did it mean? Was it extra special? Because it was there.

It was extra special, I think, for sure. And, so it was on back to backs. We were in Toronto the night previous. So it was an optional in the morning. I think there was...

It was me and Jonas and maybe two or three players that were out there. So I really had the opportunity to skate around and, you know, look at the building. It's the first time I had ever been in the building and, obviously, the the history of it and and the organization. So I had this time to really take it all in. And and, again, like, all kinda coming back to...

Just enjoyed the whole process. I I loved, you know, the chance of playing each game and and the opportunity, and it was just a lot of fun to me. So I was able to, you know, take the time and be present and take those things in and look up in the rafters and see the names. And, you know, so that that was all really enjoyable. And then, of course, you know, just being able to start there in the first place was amazing and, you know, experience the anthem and the intros and all that that comes with it.

Of course, puck drop comes. You know, you're focused. You're dialed in, and and you do your thing. And then, obviously, to to get the first win there, it it was extra special. And, yeah, a night I'll never forget for sure.

What were the emotions like after? Like, just to have checked that box, like you said, the NHL dream to have a win in your name, you know, something nobody will ever take away from you. As much as I know the goal is to still get back there and play more, like, to have that checked off. Like, there's gotta be some emotion to that moment.

Big time emotion for sure. And and, of course, after the game, you kinda get wrapped up in all the, you know, the... Just kind of the postgame of a win. I mean, we we all know what it is. It...

It's a lot of fun, and and it's... You kinda get caught up in it. And then, you know, the media and all that stuff too. And then there's

Us. Yeah. You gotta deal with us.

And you gotta catch the, yeah, you gotta catch the bus back to the hotel, the whole thing. So it it wasn't until, I would say, you know, maybe an hour or two after that it was... It really kinda hit me once, you know, the... All the adrenaline of the game had worn off and you're really kinda soaking it all in. So that was special.

I mean, obviously, family, friends, everyone reaching out and had been following along the course of whole journey. But then to finally be able to to get the win and and have... Would be a special one like that was was so cool. So definitely lasted a few days, and, I really took that all in for sure. But, yeah, I just did an amazing night for sure.

Okay. So a big part of that story is obviously the twelve... Or eleven years between getting drafted by Chicago in 2012 and and getting the win, and I wanna get into that path and and all the different routes it took. But before we go to that, I I wanna go back to Vasey because as much as, you know, a lot of the focus became about him getting hurt and and the opportunity presented, you did have an opportunity to be around him in camp.

And Mhmm. You know, I mean, I only get him through town once a year, and I was lucky yesterday they practiced, and I just watched him.

I just watched him the whole time. And what's that like? Like, what what kind of... Is there anything... There are things he does that I'm not sure any other human can do physically, but are are there are there are there lessons you can take away? What do you... You know, like, are there things you're trying to learn from an Andrei Vasilevskiy when you're around him on a day to day basis?

I was trying to soak up as much as I could every chance that I could, and and that started... I mean, I got to to town early. I came a couple weeks before training camp just to, you know, be around the guys and and get settled in and all that. And just even watching him prepare just for a summer skate was crazy to me. You know?

You watch the the preparation and and the intensity of what he was doing off the ice, and then, of course, the execution on the ice is second to nobody. So that was amazing, you know, just to watch from afar as a... You know, just interested in in goalie stuff and, you know, what what does the best in the world do. So I didn't see too much, though, throughout training camp, then, of course, you know, with the injury, and then we separated from the group a lot. What I really noticed a lot and was able to take the most in was when he started getting back on the ice a few weeks before, you know, he returned to play.

So I really... I'll never forget, like, the first time skating with him and watching him, like, execute simple goalie drills. You know, a lot of things that we kinda take for granted as far as, you know, just being really simple and and, you know, oftentimes, you do them more as, a warm up drill sort of thing. And you're watching him do it, he's just... Like, the execution and the precision is just incredible to watch.

And then, you know, of course, I I got to watch slowly the transition of him just come back skating and then start taking some shots and then, you know, to watch him in a full on practice. So it was like the... Watching that process and and his attention to detail was just invaluable to me. I mean, I learned so much from him in the couple weeks that I was able to watch.

Any, like, example of something you hadn't thought of or or or the way he does it compared to anyone else? And it's interesting because I I do think that, you know, and this goes back to Carey. Like, I remember, you know, years ago asking Carey about the foundations of his game, and it goes back to crease movement. Right? And, you know, a lot of kids, especially, like, they want drills and shots coming from everywhere and goalie coaches running complex drills, but it really does come back to how we move in the crease.

And it's... You know, even watching Vasi yesterday, so much of his work was just simple crease movement to spots and then take a shot.

Yeah. So I couldn't have said it better. That that was the thing that struck me the most was his footwork and just the precision of... You know, if a guy was changing the angle, he was moving each, you know, centimeter that the puck was moving, and he was flowing. And it was so, so precise.

And you would see that the foundation he lays from doing that allows him to execute the save so effortlessly. You know? It's nothing that he's doing different with the positioning of his hands or, you know, the angle of whatever. It's all about what he's doing pre shot. And if you watch him just move around in the crease and then, you know, all the footwork that kinda lays that foundation, everything else comes together after that.

Okay. So from Vasi to... I'm gonna rewind. I said there was a gap there I wanted to get into and all that path and all that process, but I'm gonna rewind even further.

I think I mistakenly said BCHL earlier.

Yeah. So, twofold to that. I was actually... My favorite player growing up was Patrick Roy even though I was a defenseman. So how that makes sense?

I'm not sure. But... So he was the reason I became a goalie in the first place, decided, you know, once on a summer, I wanted to be like him, and then, you know, my poor parents are out buying goalie gear for me and and scrambling because I made this decision last minute that I wanted to switch a couple weeks before camp started. So How old were you? I was 10 years old.

So maybe a little bit later, but, yeah, it was... Ended up being a good decision, so I'm happy with that one. But then growing up was was Carey Price. So, again, you know, tying it back to the first one in Montreal kinda makes it actually special with that with, you know, watching a lot of games with Carey playing there and obviously with Patrick being a big, part of that organization. So really cool to see it kinda come around like that.

Okay. So from a last minute decision, what what led to the decision? How did you... Like, hey, mom, dad. I wanna be a goalie.

You know what? I I have no idea, honestly, for... I still can't explain why Patrick was my favorite player even as a defenseman, but he just was. And then I... You know, like, your idols do what you wanna do, so I wanted to become a goalie.

And I... It worked out really well. I had a great season. I made the top team my first year playing, and and I'm playing for team Brick that year. So I guess it was easier for my parents then to help me continue on with with that journey.

So... But, yeah, I can't really explain that one. And then then, yeah, I just stuck with it. I... We...

It was, you know, really successful with it early on and just kinda, I guess, relied on athletic ability more than any sort of structure, but that that came later, I guess.

Well, I was gonna ask when does it start. Right? Because you're you're... Obviously, if you decide to play because

of Patrick, you're probably modeling your game as as much as you would at that age. You're you're watching TV, and you're trying to do the things he's doing. But as you move up Mhmm.

You know, and and into your teens and becoming... You know, end up playing in the AJHL and off to Ohio State, when did the goalie coaching side of it, and who were some of the early influences?

Yeah. I would say that, it started pretty early, and so much credit goes to my parents with... You know, of course, growing up in in Western Canada, you know, you have the opportunity to to play hockey, and most kids do. And... But I think, you know, obviously, we know goalie gear is so expensive, and and hockey is so expensive in general.

So I just so fortunate to be able to play in the first place, never mind to be a goalie and and have the opportunity to play on these top teams and, you know, travel around and do that for so long. So I can... Can't thank them enough. Obviously, so much goes into that as a parent. And then, you know, and then they would always go the extra mile with finding me, you know, goalie coaches in town to work with and, you know, going to the summer camps and kinda doing everything.

It gave me the best opportunity to be as good as I could and worked with a ton of goalie coaches growing up. You know, Edmonton, pretty big city and pretty, you know, hockey dominant, so a lot of options there. And, yeah, I was was learning a lot from a young age and and had access to that, which helps so much with, you know, building your game and and being able to play for those top teams and then kinda keep moving up the charts, so to speak.

But do you see... Like, you you, you know, you said you worked with a ton of different people, value in that, different voices, different perspectives as opposed to

Yeah.

You know, for some guys, it's like, hey. I started with this guy at age 12, and it was him till age 25.

Yeah. And I'm sure there's pros and cons to both. I can only speak for having multiple voices and, different coaches, and and I thought it was great. Especially, I think, when you get older, you start to understand that a lot of the points overlap. They just maybe use different language or explain it differently or, you know, even demonstrate it differently sometimes, but they're trying to show the same point.

So once you kinda... You know, you... You've able... Been able to hear those different voices and understand the point, then you can kinda... You can hear the same thing from a 100 different guys and and get the same message.

I personally really benefited from having a lot of different voices and perspectives and still do. I mean, I've played for different teams for the last four or five years, so a lot of different goalie coaches and a couple extra, you know, national teams sprinkled in there too. So a lot of different voices.

So that's something that you can't really teach maybe as a a parent or you know, a goalie partner or whatever it may be. That's just something that comes with age and experience. But I I personally really benefited from having a lot of different voices and perspectives and still do. I mean, I've played for different teams for the last four or five years, so a lot of different goalie coaches and a couple extra, you know, national teams sprinkled in there too. So a lot of different voices.

But, again, you know, at a certain point, especially at the pro level, you know, the the game is is the game, and a lot of it after that is just management of the ups and downs of the season and a lot of fine tuning and and basic work.

So 2012, after first year in the AJ, Sherwood Park Crusaders, if I'm not mistaken. There we go.

Had... Actually had that right. Sherwood Park home to a number of great goaltenders as well. Yeah. Some some guy named Carter Hart, we know pretty well too.

What, you get drafted before you go to Ohio. Do get drafted in 2012?

What would you remember that experience? Is that something you expected? Or... Because I'm I'm I'm trying to remember, like, 2012.

I'm thinking there's not a ton of kids getting drafted out of the AJ.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was, I would say it was expected to be drafted. I I... It was kind of a coin flip.

So I... I've gone to the NHL combine. I just barely made the cut. I think they took the top 10 ranked goalies. I was number 10, so I, you know, I got I got the invite there.

And, by no means, I had a lot of meetings, so I think a handful. You know, a lot of teams weren't necessarily jumping out of their chairs, excited to meet me or anything. So, I mean, I didn't know what to expect, of course, you know, around your peers at the combine, and your guys have 28 meetings or 24 meetings or whatever. So, know, you have four or five. You don't...

You're not feeling so good about your chances anymore, but wasn't really sure what to expect. Of course, I wanted to be drafted. I mean, who doesn't? But there was no no watch party or anything like that. I was just kinda, like, casually watching day two of the draft in the morning.

And then, yeah, saw my name pop up really late, but it it came up nonetheless. So that was really exciting.

You saw it before you got a call? So that's how you found out just basically watching TV?

Pretty funny story actually with that. So Chicago was one of the teams I had spoke with at the at the combine and kept in touch with them throughout the season with Mike Donahee in particular. And so I actually saw his number pop up on my phone, but the way that they had the draft coverage in the later rounds is they would only show the pics every five or 10 or so. And then they had the panel or, you know, maybe call it to commercial or something like that. So I had seen a guy, Brandon Whitney, get taken at one ninety one.

And then my phone rings from Mike Donahee, and he says, you know, hey. Like, did you see who we just picked? I'm like, yeah. Like, just picked Brandon Whitney. Like, why are you calling me?

And he's like, no. No. We took you at one ninety nine. And then sure enough, a couple seconds later, it popped up on the TV. So that was that was pretty funny, pretty embarrassing, honestly.

But, yeah, super exciting. And then after that, I mean, it was just just all a blur with, you know, the excitement of that and and the rush and the thrill and the opportunity and then getting to the development camp and all that. So that was great.

Okay. So you... Had you already committed to Ohio State, or was that... Did that come the year after?

No. I had already committed, I think, in the spring of that year kinda toward... Maybe after my my season in the AJ, and then, of course, the draft in the early summer there. So...

So that was always the plan to go to Ohio State. What was was what was that experience like for you? Four years of of college, and and I I don't know if there's a degree involved. What'd you take in school? What was the

Yeah. I got got my degree. So that was first and foremost. Obviously, you know, there's life after hockey, and and my parents were so great with that. We're, you know, understanding that the WHL was a big sell, of course, Western Canada, naturally.

And I was never drafted into the WHL, but when I started playing in the AJ, you know, I think teams can, like, pick up your rights just arbitrarily. So I think that happened a few times. And Yeah. You know, I said I I wasn't interested in that just yet, maybe in the future. I'd gone to camp with the Vancouver Giants, and, of course, the lure of that brings you in with the big rink and the, you know, the free gear and, you know, all of the the shiny lights.

And so I I really wanted to do that, but, again, so fortunate with my parents. They had, you know, seen to go to camp there, and they had said, you know, hey. Like, you just experienced the best of, you know, Canadian Hockey League and the WHL. Let us show you the best of what college would have to offer. And so my dad actually...

He flew me down to Boston, and I was able to tour BU and see BC and walk around Harvard and see all that. And she went to BU/BC game, and after that, I said, I'm I'm gonna college for sure. So that that was an easy decision for me after seeing it and, again, just so fortunate with being able to do that in the first place and and have that exposure. So after that, that was my mindset. You know, I wanna go I wanna go to college and and then had a few different options with that.

And Ohio State just just was the best experience for me when I flew down and and saw the campus and the hockey program and, you know, Columbus is amazing city. So that was an easy choice for me, and I really, really enjoyed my time there.

I love that story. I love that. Because it... I mean, at that age, it's gotta be, like you said, you know, to see what it looks like to be in Vancouver with the Giants, one of the, you know, one of the top franchises in the dub, That's gotta be tempting to just jump in with both feet,

but the heck tempting, especially you're 16 years old and, you know, sign here or play this game, you know, here's some free gear and some sticks and some swag you can wear back home if you don't. You know what I mean? Like, it's

Oh, every kid would be exciting.

Out of that. And and, you know, I don't blame the parents either for for wanting to have that experience with their kids. Luckily for me, you know, my parents had seen that, you know, maybe there's more opportunity. And, just even the awareness of that in the first place, I think, was so great. It ended up being huge for my hockey career and for me as a person to to know that, hey.

There's there's college hockey out here, and and it's pretty cool. So, you should probably check it out.

And you can play for four years. Right? Like, there's no You

play for four years. You know, I I got my degree. I met so many amazing people who had such an amazing experience, and I didn't know what was gonna happen for me with hockey after. I mean, I had no clue. Of course, I was a draft pick, but, I mean, seems to be a revolving door with, you know, guys joining pro and stuff.

So you don't know how you're gonna fit in or if they want you. And, you know, it's not really an open line of communication as we know. It's a lot of simple and short phone calls and stuff like that happens. So... But, yeah, I I was, you know, so lucky to have that experience in college like I did and to get a degree and and have that in my back pocket is amazing as well.

How'd your game evolve? I mean, your four years in university, the one thing we hear about about playing in college is, you know, weekend games. A lot of time during the week to not only school, which is college... Like, athletes in college. I... Like, I... It's impressive to me how you balance it all, but a lot of working out, a lot of taking care of yourself physically, and a lot of time to work on your game. How'd you evolve?

Yeah. So the biggest thing for me with going to college route was time. I mean, it's probably no secret to anyone now, like, that knows my story. Like, pretty late late bloomer and, you know, kinda came into my game a lot later than than a lot of other guys, and that was the biggest benefit of of going to Ohio State was I got that four years, like you said. I actually got five because I got a bonus year that I I stayed back one more year in Junior A as well.

So I didn't go over right out of high school. I I had that extra year, which, again, kinda all ties in. But that's the challenge again too with being a goalie in in the WHL. If you're not a top, top guy at all of a sudden 19/20, you can be done, which would have been exactly the case for me had I not gone to college. So so, yeah, I had the benefit of time, and and college hockey as a goalie can be challenging.

It... There was me and Christian Fry who was the same class as me. So we both came in as freshmen. And, of course, with, you know, 30, maybe 35 games a year and two guys that can play, all of a sudden, 15, 20 games a year is all you're gonna get. So that was challenging.

Of course, you wanna play every game, and when you're not playing so much, it's, you know, can be frustrating, and and you always want more, of course. But, I learned so much about myself as a person and and how to deal with situations like that that when I came out of college and and kinda had that in my back pocket. Coming into pro, of course, has its own set of challenges, but I felt like I'd gone through a lot of similar situations with dealing with that in college. So I felt a lot more prepared and and able to handle them a lot better.

Okay. Transition me to pro then. What's the biggest jump? Because we've had... I know... Like, I've had guys, and, you know, we talked about Carter Hart and Sherwood Park like that. A lot of guys over the years have said the jump from junior to pro in... Whether it's the ECHL, the American League, whatever, is harder than eventually the jump from the AHL to the NHL. Like, your first year of pro can be a real shock. What do you remember of it, and what are some of the things you had to get used to the most?

Yeah. It's a 100% accurate. You learn really quickly that you're in a business, and it's about results. And, of course, there's varying degrees to that, and, you know, different guys have... You know, as goal is you have a a leash, really.

I mean, you're a high prospect. You have a pretty long leash. If you're not a prospect, pretty short leash. So you kinda learn the the ins and outs of that and and the business side, and and really just... You learn very, very quickly how to conduct yourself and what you have to do to make the most out of your development and your experience and your performance, really.

Because, I mean, in junior and and college is the same. There's a lot of babysitting going on. You know? Eat this. Go to bed at this time.

Do this. Don't do that. And you turn pro. A lot of it just kinda falls onto your lap, and it's up to you to make the right decisions. So you learn pretty quickly about, you know, the right things to do, the wrong things to do, and a lot of that can really come down a lot too with the group you're thrust into and and who your veterans are and and the leaders are.

I was lucky with, you know, coming into Indy and ECHL, and then Rockford and the American League had, you know, such great goalie coaches and and veteran leaders and and guys to look look up to and see what they do. But, yeah, that's the biggest change. There's a lot balls on your play, and and you have to learn pretty quickly, like, sink or swim.

I I was

Yeah. So I I had Peter Aubrey my four years that I was with the Blackhawks organization. So, you know, he would do a lot of trips my early years in India and and come down for weekends and work with me, and we're always in contact, you know, doing video or or or just phone calls. And he was unbelievable. I mean, I can't say enough good things about Pete.

And and to be honest, if it wasn't for Pete, I don't think I would've still be playing strictly because he was able to help me so much with, you know, the ups and downs of the season and and how to deal with all that. That's what makes, I think, goalie coaches great at the professional level is how can you deal with the goalie as a human being. And that's what Pete's greatest attribute is is, you know, of course, every goalie gets there because they have a certain skill set, and they know how to use it. And there's a lot of fine tuning. Don't get me wrong.

But a lot of guys can't deal with the ups and downs of a pro season, and they kinda get chewed up and spit out if if things don't go their way. So that's where Pete really stepped in and and was unbelievable to my development. Was just so much of the off ice stuff. So I... You know, one of my great friends, we still keep in touch so much to this day, and, yeah, he was a a massive, massive part of my success early on and and for me to continue developing and still be compliant, really.

It sounds like he's all... Like, if I'm not mistaken, at the top of my head, I thought he he went back to college hockey too to coach as well.

So he's at he's at University of Nebraska Omaha now.

And that sounds like it would be the... Like, a... Based on what you... Your experience in college, your experience with Pete, that seems like a pretty darn good match.

Yeah. I'm sure he's just doing unbelievable. I'm sure the guys love him there, especially with having that pro experience and, you know, that being part of that level that all the guys are are eager to get to it. I'm sure he's just just love there and such a great person. So, yeah, he's really, really good at what he does.

So we talked about, you know, that time with, with Chicago, those three years.

Mhmm.

The development being as much off

Like, we're thirty five minutes in here, I haven't asked

Yeah. So I guess that first part of that, early on, I think my game was really raw. I was, you know, really athletic through junior and through college, and I I got away with it just because of the level that it is. When you turn pro, you know, a lot of it, there's... The speed's a lot quicker.

The guys can shoot you a lot more accurately quicker. The game's just faster overall. So Pete was really good with helping me early on with... You know, you have so many tools. Like, we just need to put them together, and kind of just ended up being to where my game is now as far as...

Now it's all about efficiency for me and really just keeping it as simple as possible. And what would that look like early versus now is so different where now it's all about, you know, minimal movement and letting pucks hit you and and tracking down on pucks and all these things that are really simple in theory but difficult in practice. So early on, there there was just so much reliance on the athleticism to to bail you out and, you know, make the the big save that everyone goes crazy for. But as a goalie coach and even as a goalie, once you start to learn that, hey. You're not gonna last very long if that's your first option.

So so much has gone into that. So much work. So much, you know, time and thought. And, you know, now it's really just, like I said, all about efficiency. You're just being box, square, depth management, you know, all these things that we hear about all the time and, just putting myself in the best position to execute saves as simple as possible.

It's nice to have the athleticism, but when you use it all the time, it could be a little tough. It

can be tough. Yeah. It's, it's not a good starting point. It's it's good to have in your back pocket, but I don't know if you wanna rely on it too too much.

So what went into the decision first to Like, there's a lot of guys that go over there, you know, maybe there's a different element I can add to my game.

Yeah. So it's really unique situation, actually. I never really had Sweden or or Europe on my radar. I was, you know, pretty dead set on doing whatever I could to to play in the NHL. And, of course, you know, the opportunity seemed to be with Chicago year in, year out, and they kept offering contracts, and I kept coming back.

After the COVID year had finished, I think it was around mid May, was just kinda, you know, reaching out and and seeing where where they were and what they wanted to do, and my contract was up. And had... Didn't really have a decision yet. They weren't really sure kinda kicking tires. And what happened was I actually got a phone call that...

Färjestad had lost one of their goalies. Erik Shelgren had signed with the Maple Leafs. Yeah. So they were kinda scrambling to to get a goalie, and maybe people listening are thinking, you know, scrambling in May. What's the rush?

They signed guys so early over in Europe. So to not have a goalie in May was full on panic mode. So the opportunity had come up with them, and and they wanted a decision, like, right away because they they wanted to find a guy as soon as possible. So I I gave it a couple days, and I thought, you know what? Like, this sounds like a great opportunity to maybe just shake things up.

I felt really stuck with the Blackhawks. You know, I felt like I had really been developing and and getting a lot better, but I just wasn't climbing the depth chart maybe as much as I hoped or or wanted to. But, so going over to Sweden just really seemed like a way to kinda get out of the rat race of being in the American League and dealing with that and, ended up being the best decision for my hockey career. So it was an amazing opportunity. I'm happy it came up.

Okay. So that year ends up including the Olympics. Was that at all on your radar, that opportunity when you make that

No. So that's, another funny story. So I'll get to that, but I... No. That was not even on the radar.

But but, of course, the NHL was still in the mix at the time.

Right.

So I don't think it was until maybe December that they had officially pulled out.

I was gonna say I wasn't even sure we knew that that would be an option.

Yes. So that whole process happened so, so fast. I'd So gone over to Sweden. I had a great start to the season. It was playing unbelievable.

It was on a one year contract, so I'm getting calls left and right of, you know, what do you wanna do next year? And like I said...

It starts early, doesn't it?

They like to sign guys early. So my phone started ringing in probably late September or early October. And so then, of course, yeah, back to the Olympic thing. They... The NHL had pulled out, and I can't remember seeing something about...

I think a buddy had texted me or something. Like, hey. Your name popped up as, you know, potential candidate for going to Beijing.

And I was, holy smokes. Yeah.

I guess, like, who else would there be over in Europe? So kinda always thought that that would take care of itself. A couple friends of mine, I had come to find out we're on this, like, shortlist that Hockey Canada had put together. So...

Other goalies or guys you played with?

No. No. Other players. So I was like, okay. Like, you know, maybe that's just gonna take care of itself naturally.

And then one of my good good friends, Adam Tambellini, he had said that there was, like, a deadline that they had to put in a short list of, you know, maybe 60 guys or or 80 guys. Actually, one of my teammates was on it too, Stefan Elliott, who had gone in 2018 to PyeongChang. So I was pretty in the loop as far as what was going on at the sidelines. I was just kinda letting it play out, and and my name never got thrown into that. So, actually, I called my agent and...

My European agent and said, hey. Is there any, like, rumbling of this? Do you know what's going on? So to make a really long story short, he had called Hockey Canada who had said this was an oversight on our end. We would like to put your name in the hat, but there's all this, like, paperwork that you need to do, and it's due tonight at midnight.

So you gotta get on it. So there I was, like, scrambling away on my computer, filling out all these forms, and there was so much to do as far as, you know, paperwork because it was in China and COVID going on, and they wanted to know everything and anything about, you know, your medical history and all these different things. So there I was signing my life away at, you know, 11:30 at night trying to meet this deadline, and then then the rest is history. You know? Obviously, I got the call to go, which is incredibly exciting.

And, yeah, that was amazing. So I get to call myself an Olympian now, which is really cool.

Now were you over there in time to do things like walk in the opening ceremonies and things like that? I wasn't sure. You... Did you miss that?

I missed opening... I was the only guy on the team that missed opening ceremonies. I actually had a a false positive COVID test come back. And, yeah, there was so many, like

Such a strange time.

Oh, such a strange time. And, you know, of course, at that time, it's devastating. You know? You're an hour before the opening ceremonies, you get a a text that, hey. Don't leave your room.

You get a positive COVID test coming back, you're like, holy smokes. It's my Olympics over. Like, what's going on? And then, you know, the scramble from Hockey Canada looking to take care of things. And, yeah, I could talk to you for about three hours about my experience over there with all the little all the, you know, little details behind the scenes that a lot of people aren't familiar with.

But really, really stressful time and a lot of anxiety and, but really incredible experience to be able... To be there in the first place and then obviously have the opportunity to play and succeed and do all that.

So I... Did you get to play...

I had to leave because, you know, we're technically on loan from our European club. So as soon as we lost out, they were like,

go back Oh.

Yesterday. Yeah.

So Hey. But at least you got

What's that like to be in that jersey on the Olympic stage?

It's absolutely incredible, and it was such a unique experience because, you know, we would be out there. You know, you're you're practicing leading up to the tournament, and there's nobody in the rink because they don't want anybody there, obviously, than media and personnel that they need to run the day to day. And the same would kind of apply for the games. There was no atmosphere. There was no, you know, it didn't really feel like much, but then you would catch yourself, and you would see all the cameras and and the full operation that was going and think, like, holy smokes.

Like, entire country is watching you at home, and this is a pretty big deal. So that was that was really cool. Once once you kinda, you know, overlooked all the rules and regulations that they had in place to let you play, then you realize, like, no. This is the Olympics. It's...

There's a lot on the line here, and it's a pretty amazing experience. So... Yeah. Just incredible start to finish. We had such an amazing group, obviously, an unfortunate finish there to Sweden.

We had hoped to, you know, play for a medal and and, you know, if that's what you you dream of, of course. But you'd still to be able to wear the Maple Leaf represent the country. It was just something I'll never forget and and, one of my greatest hockey experiences to date for sure.

Where's the jersey?

It's at home. Yeah.

Hang... Hanging somewhere framed, I hope?

It's hang... Hanging at home, and, yeah, I I got a lot of them. You know, we did a a big signing after too with all the guys. I got a few sticks and a bunch of jerseys signed by the whole group, so I'll keep those in my possession forever.

Yeah. Love it. Love it, man.

Exactly. Yep. Definitely. That's part of the collection, of course.

So back to after the Olympics. Next year, you're

Yeah. Those were two amazing organizations and, two of the top in in Sweden, of course, and and Europe for sure. So to be able to play for those two was amazing and and had amazing goalie coaches there. Christoffer Märtin, I had in Färjestad, Lundqvist who helped me adjust so much to the European style of the game. And, you know, I was so eager when I got there because it's such a unique change of scenery, and and I was so so excited to have the chance to play in the league.

And so he helped me so much with my game just with the transition and and really... I think he really enjoyed the perspective I had too coming from North America. So we really just enjoyed talking shop, and he helped me so much off the ice too with, you know, all the all the ups and downs that come with hockey. And like I said, you know, a lot of goalie coaches are are really good at that and and definitely a skill they need. And then last year, I had...

I met Chase, I probably butchered that, so hopefully, he doesn't get upset at me for that one. Masken, we called him. So...

Yes. He's been on the podcast too, and I butchered that name as well. So, Matwiv, yeah, he knows.

He he was unbelievable. He was so awesome to work with. He came in day one. I, you know, I'd heard of him and and spoke to him a few times over the summer. Didn't really know what to expect, but he he helped my game so much.

Like, we still keep in touch to this day, and and I still rely on what he taught me foundationally, where I am constantly going back to that... The season whenever I don't feel right or or feel like I need a little bit of fine tuning. And, was able to work with him and and Dennis Hildeby last year, which was one of the funnest years I've had in hockey. Probably the funnest year I've had, to be honest with you. Just Dennis was so eager and such an awesome guy to work with and such a good person.

And and Maskin, like, he brought us all together. We had such a great trio together and loved working together. And, yeah, he he... Like, Maskin knew exactly what I needed. He knew how to deal with both of us individually.

I mean, I was 28, and Dennis was 19 or 20, I think, at the start of the year. And so two very different styles, but he has such a great approach and such a great understanding of the game that he was able to kinda tie us all together constantly with what we were doing. And that was a big thing for me. I I think last year, he taught me so much about how, like, simple is better. And you kinda think that as you get older and you get more experienced with your game that, you you know, it it needs to become become more complex, and there's a lot more, you know, strokes that go into the fire that you need to really draw on whenever you can.

But it's actually the opposite, and and he was able to really help me so much with that where we would keep things simple, and we kept it simple all year. And, you know, whenever I kinda push him a little bit, like, hey. Do... What about this or that? And he's like, what what changes?

You know? Like, there's no difference in the approach. So, like, why are you taking a situation that's so simple and trying to make it complex? So he was awesome to deal with.

Like Can you give me an ex... Can you just give Now I know what he means. Like, simple in in what term? Yeah. Foundational in what terms?

Yeah. So I think, like, a a situation comes to mind, for example, like, the reverse is used so much. A lot of post play and net play is such a big part of the game. So there's so many different approaches as far as how plays can develop. Does it come from above the goal line, below the goal line?

Is it, you know, within the dots, outside the dots? Like, you know, is there a backdoor threat? Is there not? Like, there's so many different options. So, you know, say I'd gotten beat the night before on a backdoor play from the reverse and, you know, there was all these different things going on at the slot.

You're watching the video the next day, and you're kinda talking, like, so specifically about that play, and then we go on the ice, and I'm asking him all these questions. And then he would constantly say, like, well, what what changes between if the guy's there or if he's not? Like, are you gonna change, like, what you're doing in reverse on the post? No. Okay.

You know, does it matter, like, which blade this guy is backdoor? If he's covered, if he's not, if there's a a shot threat in the slot, like, does it change your attack angle? Does it change your post integration? Does it... Like, nothing changes.

So, of course, as goalies, you wanna be perfect, and you wanna analyze each situation and and, you know, break down every single goal so that you can learn from it. But that was his best thing was, like, no. No. Like, we can categorize all these things into maybe five or six categories. And if we constantly work on these five or six things, they might not be specific to what we're doing...

Or or sorry. They might not be specific to these goals that are going in or these situations that develop, but the foundation is there. And then you can just make reads on it after that. So that was huge for me where I I think I was trying to reinvent the wheel a lot, and I came in and trying to look at all these diff... Different situations through different lenses.

And and he was like, no. Like, this is this is so simple. Like, you just need to, like, take a step back, and we're gonna work on these simple things and stick to basics all year, and you're gonna feel like it's working. And that was exactly the case. Like, last year, I had so much consistency with my game, but I think...

Or, actually, I know it was from exactly what we would do. Like, our approach every day stayed the exact same, which sounds boring probably to a lot of people, and and maybe counterintuitive to maybe some goalies listening. But sticking to basics will cover 99% of the situations that come up. And the other 1%, a lot of them, you just say, like, hey, man. Great shot.

Good for you.

I love it. Well, it comes back to that talking about crease movement earlier. Right?

Yeah. So it was actually... It was after the season. You know, I I got back after we lost at playoffs, and my North American agents had been, you know, obviously fielding calls from from some teams later into the season, and I told them, like, I don't wanna deal with that. You know, there's so much time in the off season.

If something comes up, you know, tell me after the year. I don't wanna have that in my mind as I'm playing in the playoffs or finishing out the regular season, whatever it may be. So I got home, and after a couple days, they had said, like, hey. There's a lot of interest here. And, you know, are you interested in coming back?

So I said, you know, like, what does the opportunity look like? And so we just... We explored that for a few days. And then... You because I still had another year on my contract in.

So, you know, the opportunity came up with Tampa, and and that was really just a no brainer for me. And and at the end of the day, it came down to, hey. I was gonna gonna be turning 29 at the time. Like, I wanted to... I didn't wanna retire and say, have what ifs.

You know, what if I had done this? You know? Do you think you could have played in the NHL? Do you think this could have happened or that could have happened? I didn't wanna have any of that, so I thought, you know, if there's a time to do it, it's now.

You know, I just had a great season. I felt ready. I felt like if there was ever an opportunity, like, this was the best one. And so it was just really a no brainer for me to to take the chance with with Tampa and and take the opportunity. So I was really excited about that.

And, obviously, pretty rare, I think, for guys to come back over that late in their career and have that opportunity. So it it was great that it came up and and, yeah, like I said, an easy decision for me.

I love I love that that, like, the what ifs, and then you end up coming back, and

Yeah.

And James Wendland, our five damn things guy who has been a game changer for a lot of goalies in terms of the physical on the hips and the movement. How did that come about, and can you

Yeah. I've been waiting for this part. This is exciting. So

I I saved the best for last then.

Yeah. No. These guys, in a nutshell, they they totally changed my game, and they changed my approach. And I don't think I would have been able to play in the NHL without having the exposure to these guys that I did in the summary. It wasn't that drastic and that...

It made that much of a difference in my game and my approach and everything. And so just kinda backing up. I'd I'd known Lyle forever. I started working with Lyle when I was maybe 15 or 16. I got exposed to him because he worked with Dustin Schwartz, who was an Edmonton guy.

Yep.

Who I had the pleasure of working with when I was playing junior, and then, you know, throughout college, would continue working with him in the summers and stuff. And still thin... Stuck touch with him to this day, and he's just another awesome person within the game of hockey. So that's why I met Lyle, and then I stayed in touch with Lyle a little bit. I'd see him the odd time, you know, in the summer.

We never worked together or anything. And... But I have always spent part of my summers out in Kelowna. And, you know, typically, it'd just be, like, a vacation time frame. You know, come over a couple weeks and towards the end of summer, get some downtime.

But having that relationship with Lyle, I... Later on, I would say maybe four or five years ago, started reaching out to him when I would go to Kelowna and say, you know, hey. Are you free? And we jump on the ice maybe two times a summer, four times a summer if we had the chance and if schedules lined up. So I always had the chance chance with them to work a little bit.

And, of course, there's not too too much you can accomplish in a couple sessions and, you know, not a lot of time to reinvent the wheel, so you kinda just stick to the foundation and, you know, we'd say in touch a little bit. But this past summer, I had spent a lot more time out in Kelowna. I spent a couple months out there. So I had reached out to Lyle early on and said, hey. You know, I'm out here for a good chunk of the summer.

I would love to get on the ice a lot and and start to build something and and put together a foundation for training camp and for the season. So... Yeah. So he jumped on that, and and we had the chance to work together so much and and, you know, had a lot of great, great sessions on the ice and so much great conversation off the ice. And you know him as well.

Like, he's such a great person within the game. So he's just great human to deal with, and then never mind. His expertise is second to none. So I love having that much opportunity to work with him and dial in the on ice stuff and and have, you know, such a good good chance to build a on ice professional relationship with him that I never really had before. So that was amazing and something I'll look to continue to do for many, many years to come.

And, he's been a huge help through the start of the season here too and staying on top of things and and keeping it dialed in. And

Can I can

I ask so many

Just just before we go to James, like, well, when you talk about that big an adjustment, if you could share some of the things that for you were the adjustment? Like, what changed?

Yeah. So the biggest thing is a lot tied into what I just said about Maskin too and and the approach I had last year was what Lyle does so well is he takes, you know, goaltending as a position, which is incredibly complex and and so many moving parts, and he simplifies it. He almost oversimplifies it so much where it seems too easy to understand. And you you kinda think to him sometimes or especially when you work with him early on, like, yeah. There's gotta be more to this.

Like, it's not that easy. And he's like, no. It really is that easy. So when you start to see it in practice, so it it starts to make sense. And maybe that's kinda what I had missed early on, you know, you know, in the years prior working with him is we never got the chance to get that far down the line.

So what Lyle does is he takes so many situations and says... You know, a lot of things I just talked about before were, like, let's build a foundation, and you can draw off it for any situation that comes up, any scenario that you wanna play, any different approach that you wanna have to your game or to your practice or whatever, and it will work. So so much of what we did over the summer was so much skating and so much head trajectory with the tracking. So I know you guys are really familiar with it, but if anyone's listening that doesn't understand it, so Lyle's big approach is a lot of the head trajectory and how that kinda, you know, applies to the rest of the body and how everything kind of trails based on that. So in other words, no head trajectory equals no tracking, which equals poor save execution or poor save or shot preparation.

So we kinda tied all that in this summer in such a simple but such an effective way where he had kinda said to me, like, you have all the tools. Like, you don't need to get stronger. You don't need to get faster. Like, your save execution doesn't need to be quicker. Like, it's just a matter of shot preparation, which involves a lot of, you know, getting on angle, depth management, and then just tracking down on pucks and saving puck...

Like, very simply just save execution. And, like, it sounds so so simple in theory for goaltending, which is such a a complex thing to deal with too. But in dealing more with that and and learning from him, like, constantly, like, I really bought in, and I just felt like my game just getting better and better every time I got on the ice with him, and it felt so simple. So, that was just... It was such a game changer for me to have that much time to work with him and for everything to kinda come together and to be able to work on, like, these little things that we just did all summer.

You know, you're working on so much skating and all the, like, preshot stuff. And then for him to just say, like, you're ready and and you feel ready was just such a... An amazing experience. So I can't credit him enough for for helping my game on the ice with everything that he put in and all the time and effort that he put into my game. So it really it came came together really nicely, and I I felt more prepared for training camp than I ever had before, you know, tenfold.

We hear... I've heard a lot over the years and obviously sort of was introduced to Obviously, it's more than that, because I think a lot

That's exactly it. And it's... Like I said, like, in theory, it's so simple, and it seems counterintuitive because as a goalie, you kinda think, well, this... There's this ultra complex game going on in front of me and all these moving parts. You know, my position is so complex.

Like, the approach needs to be complex and detailed and thorough. Where Lyle's like, no. It doesn't. It's very simple, actually. And he makes...

He turns all that chaos into, know, very simple execution. And if you don't have enough time to think about it or see it in practice, you think there's no way. You know, there's no way you can... We can talk about something for five minutes, and then you can just apply it to an entire season. And, really, that's our...

It's true. But you have to practice this. And and, you know, as simple as it is, you're... Like, it takes so much work to dial in because, you know, as we know, there's there's a million thoughts going through your mind when a puck's coming at you and and all these moving parts going on. So...

But once you're able to really dial in and you you do realize that such a such an encouraging moment when you start to feel like that that, you know, like, this is all coming together by dumbing it down, really. Sound... It seems counterintuitive, but, like I said, when it comes together, it's just the best feeling. So I really... I felt unbelievable coming into camp, and and I had a couple great conversations with him towards the end of the summer where he was like, hey.

When you get to camp and instead of, you know, so and so shooting on you in the summer, all of a sudden, it's Steven Stamkos and Nikita Kucherov. Like, nothing changes. You understand that. Right? And, you know, an older version of me would have said, like, no.

Everything changes. Like, these guys shoot it differently. Have different releases, and and the play is quicker. But when I got to camp this year and I really, like, had bought into what he had taught me, I was like, wow. Like, nothing changes.

Like, my approach stayed the same. The execution, like, had never been better in my career and really just from simplifying it and dealing with all these things that we we had worked on all summer, all these simple simple things that came together.

Off the ice, mister Wendland.

Yes.

I'm guessing that introduction came through through Lyle would be my hunch, but how'd you start... Because we've we've been introduced to him similarly and Mhmm. You know, five damn things for the hips. I'm like, hold on. My hips actually work now.

What's going on here as an old goalie?

Yeah. What was it for you? So this was probably probably midsummer, I would say, maybe around June or so. Me and Lyle were supposed to jump on the ice together, and my back was just killing me. I had a lot of issues with my back this summer and, you know, wasn't really sure what was going on.

Some days it would hurt, some days it wouldn't. So I'd said to Lyle, you know, maybe be a few days or a week before our skates were supposed to start. Like, well, I might need to push these back a little bit. Like, I'm I'm in some pain. Like, there's there's something going on.

I need to get addressed here. And he said, you gotta see this guy, James. So I said, okay. You know, of course, I built a relationship with Lyle over the years and and trust his opinion and his judgment. And he's like, no.

Like, this guy is... He's the real deal. Like, you gotta see him. And at the time, I I... It was my first time spending an extended period of time in Kelowna, so I didn't really know who to see.

You know, I didn't have, you know, guys that I would work with and therapists or or whoever to see if something came up. So I was just kind of a sitting duck with this back problem out in BC. So jumped on the opportunity to to see someone that was recommended in the first place and then not knowing the the doors that were about to open. So I'd gone to see James. I think he had gotten me in, like, literally the next day.

So I went to see him. I think it was maybe five or 6PM. I was his last patient of the day, and and so he's got this really cool gym set up. I don't know if you guys have seen it in Kelowna. Yeah.

So he's got this awesome gym set up with a, you know, private treatment room and stuff. So I'd gone, seen him, and and, you know, right away, just told him what was going on and what was bugging me. And and he was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this is what I think is going on, and and, you know, you should be should be good to go by, like, next week.

Like, you... And I was like, what do you mean? You know, like, this has been bugging me all summer, and I don't even think I could skate right now. And he's like, no. Like, you're good.

Like, you can tell Lyle you're good to go for next week. So I was like, okay. So to make a really long story short, that was just my my first introduction to James, and and he had treated me, and I felt amazing after. And then I remember it was probably six or 06:30, and, you know, I felt bad that I kept him so late in the first first place. And then he...

So he takes me out of the gym, and then we're working on, like, the rocker board stuff and and doing something with the goggles and the balls and the balance and and the feet and everything. And he's showing me all these things, and, you know, it's now it's seven at 07:30 at night, and I'm like, you don't have to be sticky and show me all this. But I was also, like, thrown for a loop too because I had gone to see him for treatment on my back, and all of a sudden, now it's seven at night, and I'm standing on a rocker board in my bare feet with, you know, one foot. And I got these goggles on, and he's whipping a ball at me. And I'm like, what the hell is going on?

Like... So it it took a couple sessions for me to understand, like, what his approach was and what he was doing. And you guys have had him on it, and you understand, you know, what he does exactly and how he approaches the goalie position and, you know, the the resetting and the recalibration of everything and how that all kinda ties in. So I was, like, really, really bought in from the start just because it was so interesting to me. And, you know, he had really challenged me, and this is what I think James and Lyle do so well is they they challenge, you know, like, why you're thinking a certain way, and they explain, you know, why they approach things the way that they do.

So, you know, with James, he had said, like, you know, what are you doing off the ice? Like, what is what is your back issue coming from? I explained to him, you know, what I did, and and I felt really good about how I trained. And, you know, I'd always went fitness testing and all the training camps, and, you know, I thought, like, my off-ice approach didn't need any correcting. Like, I know what I'm doing.

And he's like, no. Like, this is all wrong. Like, what are you doing? So he really challenged, like, what what my approach was, like, why I chose to do things. And he was like, no.

It's not working. And I and I said, what do you mean? Like, I'm winning fitness testing every year. Like, things are going great.

And he's... And he said,

you can, like, barely walk. Your back's hurting so bad. And then he showed me. He's like, look at your internal rotation. Like, you can't even move.

Like, how are you expected to get into a butterfly? And started kinda walking through the body, and then it really made me reevaluate where I said said, like, what what is my approach? You know? Like, why am I doing the things that I'm doing? And and maybe this is the better way of doing things.

So, yeah, just a long winded way of saying that, you know, he really made me question my off ice approach and and, you know, how it directly applies me becoming a better goaltender. And a lot of times, I couldn't answer that question. And I said, well, I'm doing this because it makes me stronger. So I guess, technically, I'm a better hockey player. And he said, well, no.

Like, it's not usually the case. So especially for me now at at this stage, like, 29, I don't really need to get stronger. I don't really need to get faster. It's about longevity at this point and and getting through the season. And then...

So he's been such a huge helper with that, and and being exposed to him in the first place was game changing for me, like, literally. And, yeah, just so so thankful for his time that he's put into helping me and and changing my approach and my whole game, really.

Last one because I think we're setting a record here, Matt, and I did not prepare you for how long we would be.

Yeah.

This has been awesome. But just the biomechanics of it, like, how your body... Like, how how much... Like, whether it's Lyle or James and those two things coming together, like, how much

Yeah. I feel unbelievable. And that's the biggest thing is, like, especially with the off ice stuff, you feel it right away. Like, when I would work with him and I finished these sessions, I would I would feel like I just accomplished something that made me a better goalie instead of just, you know, I... Beforehand, it was, k.

You go to the gym and and I'm really sore because I I lift a lot of weight or or I'm, you know, dripping on sweat, so I must be a better hockey player because I work so hard. You know, we're seeing James and, you know, seeing Lyle as well. Like, these guys challenge all that thinking in kind of that old school mentality and way where, you know, James would say, like, what can you do to make you a better goalie, and and what are the things that, you know, you can use off ice to use to that approach? And a lot of things, you know, it's just so counterintuitive to what you're taught when you're growing up in that old school mentality where you you kinda sit back and go, what? Like, that's it?

Like, there's gotta be more. Like, I'm not sore. I'm not dripping in sweat. Like I said, it... It's such a different approach with that.

But then when you really understand it... And that's what Lyle and James do so so well is they explain it. And if you don't understand it, they'll take the time to explain it from different approaches, through different language, whatever it may be, so that you understand what you're doing. You know, the why sort of thing. So I know James references that a lot of having the why so that you can learn the way.

So learning the way from from James and and from Lyle is is such a such a cool and encouraging experience because you feel like there's so much direct, like, applicability to being a better goalie. And for me, this point in my career, like, that's been such an encouraging and, like, unique experience where, hey. This has come about now, and I feel so much energy towards wanting to learn more about this and to how I can apply this to my game and how far can I take this just from learning these new things that I think are directly helping my game, and I feel it? You know, I feel it with the on ice stuff with Lyle and how this is all coming together and how, you know, less is more in the, you know, that sort of approach. And then I start to feel it with the stuff I'm doing with James where, hey.

All this off ice stuff that... Now I feel great with my body on the ice. You know, I... Everything's working how it's supposed to work and and the maintenance is there. And there's so much proactive work where instead of seeing a therapist and when everything's, you know, thrown out of whack, well, his approach is...

And I think he referenced that when he was on the podcast with you two about, you know, would would you trust the mechanic if he said, hey. You gotta bring your car back to me, you know, once a week for the next year. And and he had said said that to me really early on. He's like, I'll see you for three to five sessions, and you're good. And I'm like, I don't know.

But sure enough, that's how it was, and and he taught me the way and and all these different things that I can do throughout the season. And, yeah, I just... I feel amazing. And I'm sure the the feedback of having him on here has been been great, and I'm sure a lot of people are... If they're applying it and doing it the right way, they'll they'll start to feel the same as well.

Awesome stuff, Matt. Awesome stuff. This is the way, and, I think you... By the sounds of it, you'll be making your way to Kelowna for next summer, and I'm gonna make sure

Yeah. We'll make sure to connect.

Yeah. Because I can't thank

I love it. Good to talk for an hour and fifteen more for sure. It's exciting. It's, you know, such an awesome awesome journey, and hockey is such a great sport and and gives us so much exposure to that to both things. So I love love chatting about it.

It felt like ten minutes for me, to be honest with you, and I'm pretty sure we could do another hour and a half. But I I tell you what, we'll save it for

Sounds great.

All the best the rest of this season, and, we'll

Awesome. Sounds great. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Matt.

Outro

I stuck around. That's good. That was good stuff. Thanks for the tip going into the interview to, to make sure that, I stuck around. It did take me a couple of segments of listening because I I listened and I had to pause and do some other things, and then I then I came back.

So that's good stuff. Thanks for the heads up, buddy.

You you need a long drive for this one. If you're driving to the rink, save it for a road trip.

Oh, you drive to the rink and drive home from the rink and maybe to practice and back from practice.

And put your headphones on where it's getting dressed because there's takeaways in there that will help you stop more pucks when you do hit the ice. It was awesome. I loved it. He was great. It was great.

Yeah. There's technical, and there's, there's also, spiritual, guidance in that conversation to to boost your level of love for our game. Yeah.

And then forward to next summer. Yeah. Just what a path to you. Like, you know, talking about the relationships with the goalies in Sweden and Matt Schwo, Masken as they call him. By the way, we'll have an article, featuring Masken previewing his, presentation at the convention that they'll be running at the World Juniors, Swedish Federation running a convention that includes, both skills for shooters and goalies.

As part of that, we can't be there, but we've... If if you... We know we have listeners overseas in Europe. Make sure you check out the first article that we had up at ingoalmag.com this week from Steve Thompson, sort of a taste of what you're gonna be getting there. We'll have another one up with who, Matt referenced in that interview coming up soon.

And if you happen to be in Europe, I know it's a little little tough on December 16 to tell somebody from North America to be in Sweden by January 2. That's that's a bit of a tough tough go. But Europe's smaller. It's a little closer. If you're listening right now and you can still attend.

The big thing is if you would love to go to the World Junior Hockey Championship, you get tickets to the bronze, silver, and gold game as part of the conference, I believe. Yeah. Which some people might wanna rush over as a last minute thing.

Yeah. It's, listen. And I I should be careful here because the dates are getting tough. Whether the packages to attend still include the tickets at this late game, I can't say for sure, but make sure you check them out. And like I said, Thomas Magnuson, who we've had on the show, just one of the great goalie minds, of the world, of all time.

Like, just just love his approach, and that's kind of the approach you can expect from him and the people that he brings into this conference. So it's exciting times, and we've got a little taste of it for you at ingoalmag.com. So if you're on the fence, we'll we'll we'll get you off it.

Did Hutch just invent something? What's that? Did you say tickets to the bronze, silver, and gold games?

Well Well, technically, they are. Technically.

But... Yes. Fair. Fair.

I would do that to somebody else, Daren, so I deserve you pointing that out.

Oh, only because you never make mistakes

ever. Never. No. Never ever do I, Woody. I've never screwed anything up.

You make mistakes?

There's a long, long list of them, my friend.

Mine, I don't think you make mistakes. I was just thinking about it. One, there is three games.

No. There's not three

games. Yeah. There's two games.

It is a silver. I... It was bronze, comma, silver, and gold Right.

Games. Good point. Yeah.

You just didn't notice my punctuation.

It was like, when you do voice to text. It doesn't always come out that way.

Yep. So be be dangerous. It's a little dangerous to just listen for something and assume you understand what's happening there.

So I'm gonna need a dangler next time I see Hutch

for sure. I screwed it up.

Great job

Full on.

With Tomkins. Great job, with the Gear Segment and awesome, perspective on the Lou ring of honor. Lou. Really proud

of you, Lou.