InGoal Radio Episode 268 with Julia Allain

Intro

Grab a pen. You're going to need it to listen to this episode and the NHL Sense Arena feature interview. Identity, emotion, and goals. Those are three points to keep in mind as we bring you to InGoal Radio, the podcast presented by the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, the hockeyshop.com. We are scattered all over the place.

David Hutchison is eating his oatmeal on Vancouver Island, and over in Peterborough is Kevin Woodley who is on the circuit. His daughter's looking at some schools and looking at some programs with the athletics, so he's doing his job as a great dad. So this is this is gonna be a lot of fun because our parent segment is coming up, and it's got some tips on tryouts. The parent segment presented by Stop It Goaltending U, the app, the Hockey Shop Gear Segment brought to you by the Hockey Shop is focusing on Brian's Iconic X and, of course, at the NHL Sense Arena feature interview has Julia Allain. How are you, Woody?

I'm good. I'm good. I'm looking forward to the parent segment today because it's on tips for tryouts and considering my daughter's in the midst of what are, you know, essentially a type of tryout, I'm I'm I'm gonna be making notes. And speaking of which, you mentioned Julia Allaine. And it's funny that you mentioned make notes because I still have my notes from the US USA Hockey Symposium.

And that's where I first sort of got introduced to her and her work. She had a presentation at the USA Hockey Symposium in Minnesota, and I have three or four pages of notes. And there are a whole bunch of, like, exclamation points all over the place and see if she'll talk about this with us and all kinds of little things that jumped out at me from that conversation. That's where she sort of first came onto my radar. And right away, was like, boy, we need to get her on the podcast.

And she was gracious enough with her time and and joined us, and I can't wait for everyone to listen to this. And I would agree with Daren because based on the amount of notes that I have, I would highly recommend, or or just listen twice. Right? Listen twice, and that's how you can get your notes.

There is a intimate connection to goaltending with Julia Allain. She's not a goaltender herself, but a strong connection there. A couple of points that jumped out at me. Your first heartbreak is not with a significant other, It's with hockey. That that that's usually how it goes.

I I thought that was a great way to sum it up. And your worth is not tied to the outcome. So some some really cool points to come out of that conversation. Can't wait to to bring you that with Julia Allain. The Hockey Shop is in fine form and, so is NHL Sense Arena, which is, cranking things up right now as we work our way towards September now.

Isn't it exciting that the hockey season is just about here? I mean, know maybe for you guys working in the NHL, there's still a little bit of a way to go with the training camps still off, but minor hockey is cranking up and there's kids hitting the ice again, getting ready for tryouts. And I'm thinking to myself, now might be the time for you to finally try NHL Sense Arena if you haven't yet. You know how they say that practices guys aren't really meant for goalies? We all talk about that all the time.

All those flow drills that you have to put up with. But you know what is meant for goalies? NHL Sense Arena. Every single drill, every training plan, every competition, it's all designed for you, the goaltender. In fact, even start with an evaluation that diagnoses all your skills and where you are and then it helps you design the work you should be doing going forward.

It's all about the goaltender. And it costs less each month than a skate with a goalie coach. As we head into a new season, maybe now is the time to train and have fun every day all season long with NHL Sense Arena using the exact same tool NHL goalies like Devon Levi and Joey Daccord use. So head over to NHL Sense Arena at sensorina.com. Better yet, if you already have a headset, you can go to the Meta Quest store and grab NHL Sense Arena today.

Put it into action this season.

Can you eat oatmeal while you're on NHL Sense Arena?

That would be a challenge. I it was basically you're asking me, can I eat oatmeal blindfolded? Should we do that?

Yeah. Give it a shot right now because you've got your big bowl of oatmeal in front of you.

Without your hands either. That's the that's the really challenging part because your hands are holding the Sense Arena.

Oh, you just slopped oatmeal all over your chin and your cheek.

I did not. I was flawless.

Having that stuff. That's that's weird looking. The colorization of that oatmeal is unique.

Is this gonna be the parent segment now? It's gonna be Hutch's oatmeal recipe?

Yeah. He's from Vancouver Island. Like, I'm pretty sure the oatmeal comes with Birkenstocks.

First off, it's all organic. It's all organic because we're on Vancouver Island. Yeah. It's, oats. It's flaxseed. It's, chia seed. It's, cranberries and, cocoa.

Sounds like a smoothie.

Kind of does, doesn't it? But it tastes great. So this week's parent segment is now over. It was brought to you, but no, we're not.

Parent segment, though, we'll get into tips and thoughts for tryouts coming up. We have our feature interview brought to you by NHL Sense Arena with Julia Allaine. Fascinating stuff. I'm really excited, for everybody to hear that. I can't wait to go back.

I've already listened to it twice. And with the notes that I've got to just little bullet points that that you can reflect on is a great foundation for you. But let's get into the main sponsor of InGoal Radio, the podcast, The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com, and the Gear Segment. What's happening over at the Hockey Shop?

Busy, busy times. Obviously, they've got the sale. You see it. I I would suggest if you don't already, subscribe to our free weekly email newsletter, go over to ingoalmag.com and look for that because every week you will get an updated email with all the latest stories from us, all the latest podcasts, links to past stories. We dig through the archives, but also updates on all the sales that are going at the Hockey Shop, including the back to hockey sale right now.

20 to 50% off Bauer gear, up to 40% off Warrior. There's a whole bunch of great discounts on now, whether you're getting your young goalie outfitted to go back to to hockey or maybe getting ready for a beer league season, need a couple new twigs, maybe one practice twig, one game twig like I use, or, you know, maybe some new pads. There's a whole bunch of stuff on sale right now. And, of course, all the latest and greatest. There's new stuff coming in all the time.

That's what we go through in the in the gear segment, all the new stuff that arise. We're still actually catching up from stuff that's come in this summer. New products from CCM and Bauer in particular. And so if you've got questions, I guess the best not only is it on sale, not only do you have the new stuff, but you've got a staff there that all plays the position. So whether you get to talk to Cam or whether you get to talk to anyone that's on the staff in the goal department at the Hockey Shop, they all play goal.

They all know goal, and they'll all be able to help you or your child get the equipment that they need. And I know, like, this is not a cheap position. Maybe you don't need the top line depending on the level you're at. Quite quite often, you don't, frankly. And they can save you big bucks.

We had the the Bauer reactor gear that we unveiled in the last couple of weeks here that you saw on the YouTube. That's a second price point gear that costs half as much as pro. We've seen that used all the way up to major midget. So, make sure you talk to Cam and his crew. They'll make sure you get the gear you need without necessarily having to overspend in addition to presenting you with all the different options that are out there.

I've been in there before. I've watched him do it. I've watched parents come in ready to drop a grand on a new mask, and I've watched Cam go over it with him and just tell them frankly, your kid doesn't need it. He's not at a level where the added protection is gonna make a difference. This one fits perfectly.

It's the kind of honesty that I appreciate, and I think other parents do too. So make sure you check them out at the hockeyshop.com, or if you're lucky enough to live in the Lower Mainland in person at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley.

Love the accessories, page on the website too, and that newsletter's coming out with all the sales. Remind me again, what ships to The States and what doesn't?

I think it's pretty much everything, Bauer and CCM doesn't cross the border. I think Warrior, True, the other brands all cross the border. Don't hold me on the True one. I don't know that I've asked Cam in particular. I know Warrior does.

I'm pretty sure Brian's and Vaughn do. It's it's it's Bauer and CCM as the bigger manufacturers that pretty much have restrictions on whether you can ship across the border.

Gear

K. So just keep that in mind or call The Hockey Shop and pick their brain about, everything that's happening. This week's Gear Segment subject brought to you by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley is the Brian's Iconic X. Give us a little bit of a teaser before we turn it over to you and Cam.

Well, I mean, speaking of second price point gear, write that middle price point, save you some money. I was really impressed. We hadn't used this. We haven't tested this. We haven't been in Brian's gear in a while, to be honest, over at InGoal.

They haven't sent us test stuff, but I was really impressed just putting this on in the store at the quality you could feel, the way the glove closed, the way the pads felt for a second price point in particular. It felt like really high end stuff. And I guess that's what you come to expect from Brian's. Beyond that, the particulars, I'll let Cam explain. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports.

I'm here with Cam. We managed to finally get him stopped laughing at his own jokes long enough that we could record the Brian's iconic X.

Because I'm just so iconic.

Oh, was waiting for that one. Holy smokes. And we're back with the Iconic X gear. Second price point from Brian's. Awesome,

And we're back with the Iconic X gear. Second price point from Brian's. Awesome, awesome looking gear and wonderful quality. Okay. Well, hold on, hold on,

Okay. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. Before we get into the Iconic and we will. Okay. Because I'm really actually quite impressed. This is the first time I've seen it, quite impressed with the gear folks.

I need to know if it's true because I've been told by other people that work here, did you or people you know and love refer to you as iconic after our original iconic video? True story. Alright, get into the gear because I'm not sure

I can deal with that. So let's talk about the pads. They're still gonna follow that same shape that we see in the Pro model Iconic. Iconic. Iconic.

To the mid model Iconic X. Overall flex profile of the pad, it is a softer flex pad, designed to be a little bit more, you know, mobile around the leg, little bit more mobile around the crease. This will soften up a little bit more as you're kind playing into it. Is that like buttery soft? Not buttery soft.

There's a little bit of rigidity there, that's good because that adds an longevity of the pad itself. One of the nice new features, especially over the old Genetic X model, that big thicker knee stack that we saw come onto the Iconic pad itself. More stability overall, especially down in the butterfly for sure. Better drive, better support down in the butterfly.

So they've continued that on to this second price point Iconic X which is a good anytime you're getting pro features on the second price point, that's a win. Exactly, exactly.

Speaking of which. Oh, you wanna go straight

to the Primo? Go right to the Primo because I I do think that is know we've had some different I've yet to see any science that says Primo. Like, we've kind of dispelled weave but I feel like every time I've been in it's been a while since I've been on the ice in Brian's but every time I've been on the ice in Primo, I feel like it slides good.

It makes it kinda annoying. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. So the slidability of Primo, again, not necessarily quantifiable on paper, but in terms of anecdotally, especially from feedback from consumers, from what we've seen, even trying it on ice myself, I actually do find this stuff really wickedly well. And it's a high wear material so it's not going to

And it's a high wear material so it's not going to

wear out? Durability feature.

Yes. Good. Okay. So, interrupted you. The leg channel.

So leg channel, you know what? To be honest, the exact same as what we're gonna find on the Iconic pad, but a nice new feature is they've added the lace ports for their rotation control strap that's available aftermarket that you would find on, say, the Iconic pad.

So it doesn't come with it, you have but in this case, you just gotta pay extra if you want that

rotation Yes. Is something available market off the wall that you can. It laces right in and that can give you again that, you know, coveted cap strap that everybody Okay. Should like. Gloves.

Gloves. First off,

I always love the eyes.

You still get the thief eyes on the gloves? I

love the thief eyes.

So, again, the closure fit and feel very reminiscent of the iconic Pro Pad itself. Difference is obviously not as thick. However, extremely easy to close off the wall.

Little less padding.

Yes. Little less padding. Same 35 degree closure does not have the dial system. So you're not going to see the A top here. You're going to see the traditional strapping.

So again, those are some of the differences that you're going to find in that mid price point.

You're going to pay less. You're going to get some things that are not quite the same.

Exactly. However, again, can't stress this enough. This is fresh, pull it out of the plastic, extremely easy to close, nice fit, nice feel, great closure, nice wide open deep pocket.

Blocker? Oh, I don't have one, you do.

So again, coming down Thicker board. Still thicker style of board, so this is where they start to separate especially their blockers between that and say like an Optic blocker. A little bit more traditional in terms of the overall fit of the blocker itself. I find it's a little bit looser on the hand even if you do kind of hammer down on the straps itself, but that said, once you do kind of tighten that up, I do find you still get that nice balance and a nice overall feel and a good richness, especially for a mid price point blocker.

Price point. Mid price point. Always So talk about we we went over the pads. We didn't really talk about what you don't get. Are you just getting a little lesser material than you would in the Pro

level Iconic? Well, especially say for example in the blocker board itself and in the pad, you're not getting the BriCore material, which is their higher, you know, in terms of rebounds and overall quality of the core since they're carbon enhanced foam. You're getting some similar specs but you can start to see the differences in terms of the manufacturing and whatnot. Designed in Canada but made in The Philippines and again, a very high quality factory in The Philippines as well. You'll notice it once you pick it up, but from afar, mean, hey, this is some awesome price point gear to definitely give you a

little bit of leg up. And again, good for kids coming through minor hockey right up to, you know, like I said, we've had second price point gear from other companies that we've run out in like major midget and had it last multiple years. Certainly good for beer leaguers. The price point, you're paying less, how much?

Again, we'll call it that. Roughly half

of what you pay for pro level?

Roughly half of what you pay for pro level. If you've got seniors, intermediate, junior. Yes. So if you want to be a star and be iconic, you can

Like give me Cam. A (604) 589-8299

or 1-800-567-7790 if you have questions.

I have a question. One more because I like to have questions. Can I mix and match y? Like, if I wanna get, like, like, the pads, Iconic X, and I'm like, hey. Like but I got some shooters, so I want a little extra padding in my glove.

Do the patterns match?

The patterns do match. Now, it all depends on kind of what I have in stock because I've also done my own custom colors for the Iconic X gear or sorry, for the actual Iconic gear, not the Iconic X, But

In theory, you can mix and match a little bit. Say you want a pro glove.

Oh, you can custom order a glove at any time too as well. Cool.

Brian's is an Iconic. The custom company. Yeah. Know. They're almost iconic for it.

Alright, guys. Check us out. Thehockeyshop.com.

Is Cam still playing a lot, or is his schedule backed off a little bit in the summer? He just sounds a little scattered right now, and I think he needs to get on the ice more.

I think he actually that's the thing, though. Don't maybe his summer league ended. I know he was playing summer league to an extent, but quite often there's a pocket. Right? You sort of that spring summer league starts, and then you get into July and August, and you've got a break before like, league's two weeks away.

Like, the beer league that I used to play in, I think they said they had their fur they got their first game coming up August 26. My my winter skates weekly winter skates start first week of September. I think I've got one on September 6 coming up right away. So we're we're right around the corner. Time for me to fire up a little Sense Arena.

And Cam, I I think this is a pretty crazy time of the year for them at The Hockey Shop. There's obviously a lot of goalies getting ready to go back on the ice. Tryouts, hint hint, for the upcoming parent segment, Hutch, as well as, you know, us beer leaguers. Right? Like, it this is a time of year where everyone between the sales stuff, the new stuff, and all the kids that are getting outfitted and adults are getting outfitted to go back to hockey.

It is an incredibly busy time of year over at The Hockey Shop and online as well at thehockeyshop.com.

Parent Playbook

We'll jump over to the tryout conversation with the parent segment presented by Stop It Goaltending U the app.

Before we get into the tips, you know who has lots of great advice and lots of great resources for young goalies? Stop It Goaltending U the app. Do you know it's twenty five years? They are celebrating the anniversary this weekend as we speak right now. Twenty five years of Stop It Goaltending in the Boston area.

Brian Daccord, his son Joey Daccord, who plays for the Seattle Kraken. They've had a big celebration this weekend. And if you think about all the lessons learned over those twenty five years, and not just by Daccord, but by all of the guys that he's had in there and girls in there as staff members, coaches that have played in the NCAA, in the National Hockey League, when you think of our Andrew Raycroft, Like, the amount of information that is shared and available through Stop It Goaltending U is kinda mind blowing. And they've taken it and put it in an app. That's what Stop It Goaltending U, the app, is all about.

It is loaded whether you just wanna use their daily primers one minute a day or dig into some of the longer segments. They've got breakdowns on pro style. They've got drills that they share. There was a great one a couple weeks ago, with Andrew Raycroft, the bump drill that I really enjoyed. Pretty much every level, whether you wanna dig in for an hour or dig in for a couple minutes a day, they've got it there.

It's that wealth of knowledge that comes from twenty five years in the business at Stop It Goaltending U. And as we've said before, double bonus, you get the best of both worlds. If you subscribe to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, you get a free subscription to InGoal Magazine and ingoalmag.com, InGoal Premium, where we add even more to your plate with weekly instruction and tips and drills from NHL and PWHL goaltenders, including a couple fresh new ones this week. Devon Levi with the spin drill and Kristen Campbell, PWHL goalie of the year with some great puck handling drills.

Some incredible images on social media regarding the celebration of Stop It Goaltending U, what they've been able to do over the last twenty five years. Congratulations to Brian and company. And just wanna mention, I was cleaning up the office, my yearly cleanup reorganization the other day, and I found the being a goalie parent book by Brian Daccord, which is really cool, which is a real resource for that. You've got it to how to be a goalie parent. There we are.

Thank you, Hutch, for bringing that up. That just is standing by, like, within arm's reach of you every every recording?

I guess so. I just happen to be where I record. I've got my bookshelf directly to my right and, there's a section that's mostly hockey books and it just happened to be sitting there and I was thinking of the exact same thing as you were talking about it, Daren. So my eyes were already scanning for it.

Yours has a different cover than mine. Oh, does it? Yeah. That's kinda cool. I mean I've got Joey in a night in

every night. Ottawa senator's uniform.

Yeah. Mine has a has a has a different cover on it. The parent segment brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U the app, focusing on thoughts for tryouts, Hutch. Where are we on the preparation for the child, the preparation for the child by the parent, and then preparation for the parent?

I'll have a little bit of everything. Mostly this is for the parents, but, as with everything we do, it ends up impacting our children. My congratulations to Brian and the crew over at Stop It as well on their anniversary. I am sure that Brian has given a ton of advice on tryouts for parents and he's probably, calmed a lot of people after things have been been tough. And I just thought I would share a few of my thoughts and maybe you guys can jump in as well because as always, I'm only one parent.

I've, I've had my experiences. I've obviously spoken to a ton of parents myself who've gone through this, but, these are just my thoughts. So I at some point will publish a tryout tip article over at InGoal aside from just this. So if you've got thoughts, tips, let me know. Parents at ingoalmag.com.

And, and we'll add add your thoughts to what we're doing as well. But from me guys this week, first off, I just want to say, good luck. I hope it works out well for everybody. It's it's not tryout season for everybody. Some organizations do it in the spring.

I find that, I understand why they do, but I find it tough because kids change so much and inside of four or five, six months. But for those who are heading into tryout season, I I hope it goes well. But whatever happens, I hope that everybody has a fantastic year and, your son or your daughter, wherever they play, a great year playing hockey. The thing is, even if it doesn't go in go the way that you want, I just hope that you jump in with both feet and have a good year. I'm gonna tell you a story not about me the goalie parent, but me the goalie.

I was cut guys from two teams in two days and I had already played for both those teams. The main team I played for the year before cut me and, one that I'd This been called up to

this point?

Well, with grade 10. Grade 10. So so, pretty young. And, the team I'd been called up to, for half a season the year before also cut me. And admittedly, I was punching above my weight class with that team.

But, I certainly assumed that I'd be at least back on my previous team having been called up to the top team in the organization. And it was a was a it was a gut punch for me and it was a bit like we see in junior hockey now and even other levels. Even if you're the better goaltender and and I'm pretty sure I was for at least one of those teams based on a whole lot of factors, they might not keep you. And it did feel horrible at the time. But there was little chance I was ever going to make that top team again.

And they had kids that were younger than me that they wanted to, keep playing and move them up one day. So was it unfair? Well, I guess it depends on your perspective. But there wasn't anything that I could do to change it. So I jumped in with both feet to the team that they assigned me to.

And for the next three years I played on that team and I learned to love the game of hockey again for all the right reasons. It was transformative in fact, guys. And I'm still in the game today at some level. So something went right in that, in that couple of days. And they were at the time the worst two days of my life.

But, but they've changed who I am and led me on the path that I am today. So, whatever happens, jump in with both feet. So a few tips heading into tryouts. Somewhere along the line, and this one is before tryouts, and this might be weeks, it might be months ago, I I would just encourage all parents and and this does fall out of Julia Allain's interview, which by the way guys is pretty much a parent segment on its own. There's so much great stuff in there.

But somewhere along the line, let your kids know that you love them for who they are and not the sport that they play. In fact, true story, I did this last night. It's still a few weeks before my son heads to camp and I do the same thing throughout the year. But basically, I just said, I hope you know that your mom and I are proud of you and we love you for who you are, not for hockey. We love you because you throw yourself in with both feet and you work really hard.

And if you change your mind and took up tennis or music or computer programming or whatever it might be, we just love who you are and that you work so hard at it. So, I just think that's really important because we want our kids to understand why we value them and sometimes we probably just assume. So I think things need to be said. Now with the tryouts themselves, keep things relaxed at home. The work has already been done.

Just let the kids go out there and have fun and perform their best. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Us parents getting all excited, and hyped up, hey, it's a big day. Can't wait for the tryouts. Aren't you excited?

Better get to bed extra early tonight. It's totally understandable that parents do that, but it's not going to help your kids perform. And if anything, it's just gonna add to the potential anxiety around it all. So just relax. Treat it like another ice time.

At the tryouts or on the day of the tryouts, remember that your kids are gonna feed off your energy. So stay calm and keep smiling. You need to sort of be like that proverbial duck on the water who looks calm on the surface, but they're paddling like hell to stay afloat underneath. Your kids need to see that calm above the surface because that'll help them stay calm. So don't go getting all upset if your kid isn't getting to the car fast enough or packing the bag when you want them to or whatever.

Today is not the day to be adding to their stress and teaching them lessons on time and organization. Just help them stay calm. On a similar note, tryout day isn't the day to start checking your gear. Now is the time to call cam. Don't be checking if sticks are taped and toe ties work and skates are sharp.

Maybe normally I'd like the kids to look after all that stuff. We want to teach them that independence. But you know what? If mom and dad want to go have a check, talk to them a couple of weeks in advance, that's more the time to be working on that stuff. Again, we want to keep everything calm around the day.

At the tryouts themselves in the stands, I can't speak to the atmosphere where everybody else is, but it was pretty quiet in most of the tryouts I've ever been to. And yet my wife and I still found time to cheer for good saves at both ends of the rink. We believe in karma and we, of course, wanna see all kids having fun. Please hope for your child's success out there, but don't hope for another kid's failure. Don't be cheering that a kid has let a goal in and maybe that's gonna help your kid's chances.

Again, karma. But you want your kid to be on the right team and you want them to be there because they earned it, not because somebody else fumbled the ball. While you're at the tryout, don't go counting shots and goals, please. Seriously, it will drive you nuts in the end and evaluators are not doing it either. If you've ever listened to Woody on one thing, listen to all his amazing work on analytics and the fact that not all shots are created equal.

I have heard so many parents say, but my kid let in only one goal and that kid made the team and he let in five. It's sorry. It doesn't make sense and you're just going to drive yourself nuts. As Bill Ranford suggested in the Q and A that we published over at InGoal, if there's nasty gossipy chat going on in their stands and it happens at tryouts, maybe just go find a place to stand on your own. Today is not the day to get involved.

And then at the end of the day, I hope you get everything you dream for folks. But if you don't, please accept the result gracefully. If if you feel differently, please let me know parents at ingoalmag.com. But if but I have yet to meet a parent who protested a tryout result through the proper channels and got the result that they hoped for. If by some magic they did get the results changed, it often ends up with a tough season for their kid being placed on a team where people are looking sideways at them knowing what's happened.

I do though know of some excellent young goaltenders guys who have not made teams, have missed opportunities because the organization did not want to deal with their families. I'm not saying it's right. I don't think it is right. I feel so badly for these kids, but it is reality. So don't set your child up for that, please.

It's a stressful, tough time of year, but the reality is it's gonna help your kids grow stronger as people, whatever the result is. Those are a few of my thoughts. Let me know what your best tips are for parents at tryout time. And whether it is tryout season for your kids this week, next week, or not, go out and have a fantastic year playing the game we all love, guys.

I have no issue with an organization making a decision based on, parents and being too involved.

Well, I do for the child.

You're a team.

I do for the child.

Yeah. For the for the child, but you're a team, so it's it's a wake up call for everybody.

Yeah. It's Can I

ask one? Mhmm. Is it the norm to watch in hockey? I've been an evaluator to few and I can't remember, but, like, on my side, volleyball, parents don't watch. Love it. And that like, we're at university right now dealing with university stuff, and so I would expect that to be the norm by you hit that age anyways.

There's a certain level in of independence. She's literally staying in the dorms for four days at a time. But even coming up through the ranks, like, thirteen, 14 U, 17 U, you you drop them off and you don't go in the gym. Parents aren't watching tryouts, and I've always sort of I mean, it's hard not to watch. Mhmm.

But boy, is it, take a lot of the stress because as my wife has told me, I'm not a great watcher.

Well, I would say this, in my experience, it is the norm. All the way up to junior hockey parents are there watching. But we did have those difficult, but in this sense, magical years of COVID where we weren't allowed in the rink for tryouts. And man, that was nice. Because you didn't feel that sort of guilt or stress if you didn't go into the rink because you simply couldn't.

So off we went and we drop our son off at the rink and we went off and did some stairs and went on some hikes and all that sort of stuff and it was kind of freeing. You just had to leave them be. In many ways it was probably the best thing. And I'm also a dance parent and, in dance you certainly never took them in for trying out for anything. We didn't get to watch any of that.

So, there are different experiences. Maybe your organizations are different, but I have not met anybody who didn't get to watch their kids try out at hockey.

I wonder if it'd be better if you didn't. Like, I'm wondering even, like, even if the kid like, especially at different ages, if they feel pressure from the parents, like, hey. You know, as much as we say, just go do your best and have a good time.

I I think it

would Letting them do that might be a little freeing.

I can totally I totally think it is, freeing. But I can also tell you as a teacher that, you get a lot of phone calls from parents telling you how things are going inside your classroom and they aren't there watching. But they do have things to complain about because they think they know what's happening. So I don't know that there's a perfect world. Parents love their kids.

Parents want the best for their kids. So parents get involved. It's just kind of a reality.

Okay. So I got another one here for you. Mhmm.

And obviously, I don't have a kid that plays hockey.

But your Uncle, Woody, you And kinda

well, I've never been to tryouts for for for for nephews. We'll come

to camp this year, Woody.

But I have been a part of evaluation processes. Not anymore because I found them to be some of the most crooked crap I've ever seen, to be perfectly honest. I have watched kids that clearly had talent, but it was unrefined, be the first cuts never to see a goalie coach again when there was clearly so much more talent than the kid that looked like he'd been to goalie school all summer, but was never gonna stop a thing once the game started for real. I have also watched and so I don't know what you make of that, frankly, other than there's some flawed systems out there.

Mhmm.

I have also, however, watched young goalies that, for lack of a better term, look like an unmade bed. And that can be equipment, and I don't wanna advocate for you gotta go buy your kid the latest and greatest equipment because this position's expensive enough. But how you wear it being put together with, as you said, Hutch, like fresh tape on the sticks. I have watched coaches that don't know anything about goaltending immediately make reactions and judgments of a goaltender. Made me sick when I saw it happen based on how what kid that Mhmm.

What what equipment that kid was wearing, bunch of mismatch, but also that it just didn't look like he was wearing it properly. And so this is a really tough one for me because, again, I don't think it should be this way. I don't want parents going out and buying the latest and matching equipment. I really don't want that. But how they wear it, how they present themselves, and that could just be, as you said, Hutch, making sure there's fresh tape on the stick, making sure that the toe ties, making sure you're ready and out there early.

Again, it shouldn't matter, but I've seen it matter. And, so maybe people can take something from that beyond go buy equipment. Just make sure that, you know, you can put fresh laces in a in a pair of on your toe ties. You can, you know, make sure that things sort of

Tape your stick before the tryout.

Buckles are Have it The buckles are done up and and and your pants aren't hanging down to your knees and things like that. And and and it can make a difference. I hate to say it, but it can.

It can. Well, two two things separate there, to respond to, but corrupt or flawed or however you want to refer to it systems for tryouts. It is very, very difficult evaluating. I've I've been a part of it as well. And even if you feel like you've got the best system, it's, it's flawed as at best.

I like to believe that everybody has everybody's best interest at heart but I know that there's mistakes made. The reality is that that is the reality and there's nothing you can do about it. Woody, you don't You chose not to be involved again and you have every right to do that. As a parent though, there's literally nothing you can do about it. So you have to accept the results as they are.

If you feel that's the way the organization works, then maybe it's not the place that, your child should be playing and you need to look for an organization that better fits who you are and looks after your kid better. It sucks. I know that kind of stuff happens. Absolutely. People are making Even though Look, tryouts are not who was the best goalie on those three days.

That's our team. The simple reality is coaches have had kids with them in the past, they sort of know who they are when the game time comes and they think they're making the best judgments. It's just what happens. So yeah, I feel bad for everybody but it's reality. And as to the gear, you're a 100% right.

I I do know that coaches make judgments based on what they see. And I do feel for families that that can't have their kids all outfitted in in the top of the line best everything. I don't think most coaches can really tell Johnny's in the top of the line versus Johnny's in the iconic X because they needed to save a little bit of money based on the, you know, the the gear available to them. But as as you say, what can you do to to make them look as presentable as possible? It's unfortunately kind of a reality of life, isn't it?

I mean, you go to a job interview as you get older and, some people can have that thousand dollar suit and some people can't and it sucks. But what can you do to help them, to the best of your ability and what can we do to help you? Look, there's there's places you can get used gear. If you need some help figuring out how to wear it, there's older goaltenders that you can talk to. Heck, you can email us here and we will do our best to help you through it.

It's it's really tough. It is. And I know But I I know what happens, Woody. So what can we do to help our kids be, and put their best foot forward on on the day of? And what can we do to educate coaches so that they make the right choices?

I mean, I think that's a separate piece of this that maybe we can get involved in. Woody, what can we do to educate Well, that's that

is another piece and that's a whole other story. And and and when we get to that one, maybe we'll save that one for the next one because then I'll share the story of how the non goalie coach didn't like the drills that I put together and how he didn't see how they had anything relevant to anything I did this in front of a room full of lots of people, and I was forced to ask him after he dressed me down for the drills that I set up, all of which designed to pick out and identify very specific skills at a very specific scale for a very specific age group. Nice. And when he was done telling me how unqualified I was for it all, I asked him if he'd heard of the local NHL goalie coach, and of course he had. And then I asked him if he would be surprised to know that each and every drill was set up by that goalie coach specifically for this age group and these skills, including the scoring system that we used.

Love

it. And that was about the last time I worked with that organization.

Yes. I yeah. You you do a good job of putting yourself in that position occasionally.

I I waited I waited until he was done, and then I shared where it all came from. I didn't put my foot in my mouth. So, yeah, there's there's I've got there's a little bit of bitterness there. I had some bad experiences. I watch kids just get.

Well And and I get it. You're right. It's not a perfect system. But it's But there's

but I mean there's

two you can't do anything about it.

Well, and that's the thing. And unfortunately, Woody, when you flexed on that guy there, as you said, it was the last time you worked with that organization. And you may have been right. And for you, it had zero consequences because that wasn't the career path you were looking for to become a minor hockey goalie evaluator.

Oh, I was doing it as a favor to the President of

the organization. But now as a parent, you could be a 100% right and flex on the organization and your kid will never play there again. So so there's sort of two lessons there. But what can we do to help parents? I think since those days, that's Hockey Canada has brought in their coaching certification for goalie coaches and they've tried to make that widely available, not just to goalie coaches.

They want all coaches to be certified as, understanding the position and being able to to teach at least the basics. And as you've mentioned before, USA Hockey has something similar and I'm sure all our listeners in other countries will tell us that there's a lot of great programs around. So I think progress has been made since those days, but I know there are still lots of flaws. So we will do our best to share what we know. And, and I would say, if if I can Woody is the master of the shameless plug, but maybe it's my turn.

We piloted a program of bringing InGoal to associations last year with the Oakville Minor Hockey Association and, they're coming back on board again this year. Thank you very much. And we are going to expand that program to other associations. And maybe that's a way that we can help spread some of the knowledge and experience from great people like Woody to coaches out there. Because part of what we did with Oakville, they wanted their goaltenders to have access to InGoal.

We made sure all their coaches or at least one coach per team had access to InGoal as well because we really believe in coach education and the impact it can have on kids.

Feature Interview - Julia Allain

Mental skills coach, Julia Allain, standing by in our NHL Sense Arena feature interview. But before we get to that, just one quick comment, Woody, on what you're going through with your daughter, on tryouts. Do you talk to her every day about, how it went? How do you approach those discussions?

No. Not unless she reaches out with questions. I think we've equipped her now from a sporting standpoint to manage things, from a psychological standpoint to manage things, and kind of, you know, the same mantra that Hutch has. I texted her last night, actually, after dropping her off at a university, and it was basically a quick note to let her know how proud I am of her, that it's not easy to walk into new places and see new faces, and how brave I thought she was for doing it. And just to be confident in herself and to work hard and to let everyone see who she is and and what she can do.

And so that's that's about it. Right? All you do is sort of support them and let them go.

Well said, something that is hard to do, but is really beneficial to the child, and I think you as a parent, if the parents are listening to this, it does take some getting used to because we're so involved in our children's lives, but it can, at the end of the day, make things a little smoother as we go through this. Alright. To get to Julia and the, the mental skills side of things, there's so much jam packed into this conversation.

Including actually, I think this kind of plays off the parent segment. There's some great lessons for coaches. I love that Hutch mentioned, and they we have come a long way. And it was a long time ago that I got involved at that level and and and quickly grew a distaste for it. Things have changed.

USA hockey with 2,200, you know, bronze level certified goalie coaches in The United States to help with programs like that. Hockey Canada trying to create that same level of grassroots understanding of the position so that when you get into a tryout, it's not just the low key local goalie school running it, and sometimes their kids end up at the front of every list. Julia talks about coaches and the language they use as part of this. How do we, you know, challenge kids, but let them know that mistakes are not the enemy. Talks about use like training cognitive by doing it tired.

Like, there's so many different things here, especially the language that coaches use with with young goalies and young players, all part of what she does and what she she coaches. She she'll talk about in this interview she did at the USA Hockey thing about how she'll get a call from a coach asking her to work with their team. But the best results are when the coach is a part of the process as well So that he understands how the language he or she uses with those athletes affects how they feel emotionally and how they're able to manage that situation and how they react to those instructions. There's just that's just a a a tiny little sliver of what Julia goes into here, but I thought it sort of played off of that parent stuff pretty well. And, you know, like I said, the rest of it, just enjoy it.

As Daren said, make notes because there's so much here, and a lot of it is just full with great advice for parents, for coaches, and for goalies.

If you need to, press pause to go grab a pen and come back and listen to this interview because there is going to be a list of things that that you're going to have collected after this conversation. It's InGoal Radio, the podcast, the feature interview brought to you by NHL Sense Arena with Julia Allain, mental skills coach.

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. First time guest, but I have a hunch if she'll tolerate us, it may not be the only time. I had an opportunity to listen to her present at the USA Hockey National Goaltending Symposium first ever earlier this summer in Minnesota and was just quite I'm trying to think of the right word. Blown away. Just it it made me think from a mental skills sort of standpoint, how we apply it to goaltending.

Julia Allain of AMP, and I just already screwed it up. Julia Allain of AMP, which is Allain Mental Performance. How sports psychologists, but we don't want it. I know automatically we don't want the picture of the psychologist in the couch. Define for us what you do, how you came to it, and why the focus on goaltending?

Because I think there might be a little bit of your dad involved in that last part.

Yep. You're onto something there for sure. So I define what I do. I go actually by a mental skills coach rather than term sports psychologist. Psychology is a really interesting field.

There's always a ton of gray area and people are very nitpicky about the words you use. And psychologists always imply some type of clinical training and background where you're like treating and diagnosing disorders. And what I do is I work with athletes on performance based skills. So I have a master's degree in sports psychology. I am currently working towards a clinical degree as well, so I can get licensed because I think mental health is hugely important.

But my passion really is in performance and helping athletes really be able to implement their, the skills and the strengths that they train so much, but like when it counts. Right. And I also like the word coach because I don't think what I do is any different than a skills coach or a strength coach or a goalie coach. It is all performance based. We're just strengthening another part of your game.

So yes, I work under the sports psychology umbrella. But what I define what I do is I'm just a mental skills coach coaching up that kind of specific skill set for athletes. In goaltending specifically, it is such a unique position and yes, near and dear to my heart for sure. I was raised by a goalie, so I always had a unique insight into that role. Had a lot of conversations about that position in particular and the different types of pressure they're under and expectations.

I also have always appreciated goalies because they really gravitate towards what I do. And when I start talking, I noticed, like, they dial in. They're intrigued. They want anything that's gonna give them an edge.

And I always admired the people who wanted to take up that job because it's not an easy job and it's not a job that just anyone could do. And I also have always appreciated goalies because they really gravitate towards what I do. And when I start talking, I noticed, like, they dial in. They're intrigued. They want anything that's gonna give them an edge.

And so they they always buy in because they get it, and they get that side of the game a little bit differently than other other positions in other sports. So they're always really fun to work with too.

I gotta ask because like I said, your your dad was, like, one of the first goalie coaches in the National Hockey League. Keith, played the sport, coached the sport, currently coaches at Yale University where he's won a national championship, not as a goalie coach, but as a head coach. Being introduced, like, did you ever play?

So I had an older sister and she played soccer. So when you're younger and you have an older sister, you wanna be like your older sister more than like your dad. So soccer was my sport. My sister and I both went and played division one soccer. But hockey is definitely my favorite sport to watch.

I've watched more hockey than any other sport in my life. And I have a younger brother who, ended up playing. He actually played for my dad. He just graduated this year and he's heading over to Sweden, this Saturday, to start his pro career. So

Exciting times. Now really quickly, before we dig into sort of some of the lessons that and some of the takeaways that I jotted down, like I said, three pages of notes from from your presentation at the USA Hockey Seminar. As you said, mental skills coach, we we would be remiss if we didn't also mention author. Everything I got, the book that you have out. Quick plug on what it's designed to do and how it's designed to help and where people can get it.

We'll make sure we include it in the show notes later, but I wanted to make sure I didn't leave that to the end. We tend to do that as podcasters, but, I've got a copy on order for my daughter. Why don't you walk us through how that works and how that fits in with everything you do?

Yeah. I mean, writing a book was always a goal of mine. And when I was younger, I didn't always know what that would look like, but I knew it was going to be something. And as I started getting into this field and working with athletes, I realized I was having a lot of the same conversations. We were touching on the same skills.

We were talking about the same type of perspective shifts or topics. And so when it came time to want create something, I wanted to create something that could help me really access more athletes with these things that I felt like were pretty universal. There's a lot of individuality in sports in what I do, and I always say what works for one person is gonna work for another, but there's a lot of commonalities too when you look at like the themes of what people struggle with, the challenges and obstacles we overcome, and also the amazing things that we can take away from these experiences. So that's kind of what led me to be like, okay, if I write this down, I think this is going to be relevant to a lot of people and honestly, not just athletes. And so the title, everything I got, it's a little bit of a play on words because yes, it's everything that you give.

As an athlete, you're told, like give it everything you But in the end, it's 30 lessons and those are everything I got, everything I took away from my experiences in sports. And so it's this kind of like bidirectional relationship. Like we give the sport everything, but we get so much in return as well. And so the book is a summary of 30 lessons. I separate them into three main sections.

The first section of lessons is all about identity because identity is such a huge topic when I work with, athletes, especially if you're looking at your performance and really defining yourself based off of who you are on the ice versus just who you are as a person. The middle section is about emotions, which are huge in sports. We all know. And then the last section is about goals and goal setting and failure and the things that we should really consider when we're setting goals.

Curious on the identity side of things. Because we had other presentations at USA Hockey that talked a lot about the stresses of the position. Kids not wanting to play at young age and and really just a lot of a lot of stress, a lot of negative emotions that come from the inherent pressure that comes with this position. And I would imagine just like anyone tying too much of their identity into one thing for for some of us that when we get to a certain age, it could be work. There's there's negatives that come with that.

How did you know, how do you see sort of how young athletes identify themselves and tie themselves maybe at times too closely to their performance in terms of evaluating themselves?

Yeah, I think I take a little bit of a slightly different approach. Historically, I think the approach is we need to separate who you are completely from the sport, right? Hockey is something you do. It's not who you are. And I totally understand the value in that.

But at the same time, I think it can be really hard for an athlete who has spent so much time and dedicated so much of themselves to something for people to try and take value away from that. Right? Because if you tell someone who has invested most of their life into a sport and say, actually, it's not that important, That can be just as difficult on your identity and your self worth as you're saying this is the only thing that's important, right? So I try and find a little bit of a balance where, look, the outcome of the sport and what you achieve isn't who you are, but it's okay to feel this identity tied closely to this thing you're passionate about, that you love so much. It's okay to find worth in this game that has probably taught you a lot about yourself, right?

For many of us, that's our first experience of love, right? That's the first thing we commit ourselves to. It's probably where we first experience like our first heartbreak, our biggest failure. Like all of these monumental moments and experiences in our development as people were probably experienced regardless of what sport it is, On some sort of playing field or competitive field. And so I don't want to erase that completely.

The way I phrase it, and it's actually lesson number two in my book, the way I phrase it is you make the player, the player doesn't make you. So it's the idea of looking at who you are as a player is important, but a lot of those qualities and traits and things that have found you success in your sport are also going to find you success in other places. Oftentimes when I'm working with an athlete, I'll have them write down three to five words that they think define their game, right? Like if a scout or someone was watching you, what are the three to five descriptive adjective words that they would use to describe you in your style of play? What makes you great?

And then we talk about them. And then I'm like, okay, give me three to five words that your best friend or your family members or yourself would use to describe you. And they give me some words. And it's really cool because most often I can connect each one of their personality, like who they are as a person traits to these strengths in the game. And so we can kind of see like, look, the things that are making you a great hockey player are the things that make you a great person.

You're hardworking, you're dedicated, maybe you're funny. Like that funny side of you is what helps you bring energy to the ice. And the creative side of you is what helps you become a playmaker. So I really don't think we have to separate the two entirely, but we have to make sure the value and worth of the sport isn't the score, our accolades, our achievements. It's just like how we're showing up in that every day.

I love it because I think separating it is probably unreal. Like, it maybe some people see it as an ideal, but I don't know that it's realistic.

No. And I think for me too, I was someone most of my life has been dedicated to sports. So if someone tries to tell me like that stuff's not important, that can send me into a spiral as well, because like, what do mean it's not important? So are you going to basically tell me the last thirty years of my life have been a waste of time? I think there's so much value in it and I want us to be able to reap the benefits and see the value and also celebrate it.

So the sport itself, the game itself, all those experiences are important. They're completely different from the outcome, right? Your value and worth isn't based on whether you win a Stanley Cup or a gold medal or a championship, but you can find worth and value in how you show up to that role every day. And it's important.

So the sport itself, the game itself, all those experiences are important. They're completely different from the outcome, right? Your value and worth isn't based on whether you win a Stanley Cup or a gold medal or a championship, but you can find worth and value in how you show up to that role every day. And it's important.

One of the couple of messages that you talked about is is the need for this these types of activities to be active, to not be sort of passive contemplation, that we shouldn't be reactive, that we need to be proactive about our mental skills. Couple of examples there maybe where the difference between the two.

Yeah. I mean, I think the reactive part is most of the the inquiries I get is I had this terrible experience or I'm struggling a lot with this or, Oh no, I have this big event coming up and now I'm freaking out. Can you help me? And I'd love to work with those athletes too, but the athletes that have the most success are the ones that are preparing every day for those things before they even happen, right? We're not reacting to adversity after the fact, we're preparing for adversity.

Because I can guarantee athletes very little about their athletic experience or career. I can't really predict how it's going to go, but I feel pretty confident in guaranteeing there's going be adversity at some point in time. What that adversity looks like is going to be different for everyone, but sports challenge us all in many different ways. And so while we want to be optimistic and we want to be positive as we go into any experience, we also need to be realistic and say, what is going to happen? Like, how do I prepare for being behind in a game?

How am I going to prepare for not playing in a game? How am I going to prepare for X, Y, or Z? Like, whatever your fear is, whatever kind of things do you know are going to challenge you, let's have a game plan for what our approach is going to be in that situation, because it happens to the best in the world. And so, that reaction after the fact, we're going to then have a lot more, we're going to to backtrack and do a lot more kind of, we're not gonna be able to fix it right away, basically. Whereas if we can prepare, not only will we have a game plan in place and a direction to go when that happens, it also makes you feel more confident in the moment because it's not like, Oh no, I didn't want this to happen.

It's, Oh, I'm prepared for this. I knew this could happen. And now here's what I'm going to do about it. And so we actually get rocked a little bit less by that adversity because we've accepted the fact that adversity is gonna happen, and our confidence in that situation is so much stronger.

We've heard from NHL goalies that have gone through this process later in their career and found it to be career altering on a positive manner. That that idea that, hey. I work on my skating every day. I work on my technique every day. I work in the gym every day.

I finally figured out that I need to work on sort of my mindset and my mental skills on a daily basis. And that can be we've seen some, right, in the NHL actually have that huge arc just based on that, and yet it tends to be an item that gets not checked off, gets overlooked. So when you try and come up with that game plan, when you try and help your athletes prepare and that daily work, it's a big picture question, but, like, what can that typically look like? Or maybe to the point, where would you start? What would be the starting point and what needs to be understood before they can get to that starting point or start to take these steps?

I think the starting point and the foundation for like anyone's mental skills is like increasing your own self awareness and self understanding. And especially for younger athletes, right? Who you are is changing constantly. So it's not like, okay, I did some self reflective exercises and I know who I am. I know what challenges me now.

I know what kind of responses maybe resonate with me. It's this ongoing never ending process because who you are today is any different than who you are a year from now. It's going be different than who you are two, three years from now. And you're going to constantly be experiencing new things and you're going be put in different environments and those are going to influence you in different ways. So I think I always start with self awareness.

In the way I phrase it when I'm working with an athlete, I always say, I don't know you, so I have some knowledge, right? I have this background, but I can't just come into this conversation and tell you what to do without having any insight or knowledge into who you are, what you're experiencing, what your kind of learning styles are, what resonates with you. And so what we're going to do is we're going to go on this kind of process of self discovery together to increase your own insight and awareness of yourself. And so I can get to know you too. And one of the best things you can do in that process is get a journal, get a notebook, get anything, and write stuff down.

There's so many reflective questions that you can use to start that process. Even if it's just kind of daily reflections on like, what was my best performance I can think of? And how did I feel? What did I do? What worked that day?

What day did I struggle the most? What did I do that day? How did I feel? What was challenging me the most? Where was my focus and attention?

Maybe it's a daily practice of writing down what worked that day or what you felt good about that day. Our brains are naturally wired to be negative. Our brains are designed to keep us safe, right? So they're designed to key into things that could go wrong, things that aren't good because we want to remember that so we can avoid it in the future. But it doesn't help us as athletes and performers because then any negative experience has a bigger impact than a single positive experience.

So sometimes we need to try harder to have that kind of positive outlook on our experiences. So even if it's write down three things a day that went well that day or three things that were hard but that you overcame. That's one of my favorite ones because I like having them acknowledge what was the hardest part of your day that you survived? And then you look back and you have a week or a month or a season's worth of like, oh my God, look at all this stuff that I did that was so hard, But at the end of the day, I got through it. So self awareness, reflection, it can look different.

The questions can always look different, but that's where I start. Start journaling, start taking notes, and you don't have to write a whole diary entry every day. It could be bullet points, right? It could be two or three things. You could have prompts or questions that you start with to give you somewhere to go.

It could be writing down goals and dreams, like anything really, but just start paying attention to yourself because as athletes, we spend so much time trying to get to know our coaches and our teammates. What does my coach want? What does he mean when he communicates like that? How do I talk to my teammates so they are motivated or understand what I'm saying? We're so focused on how we interact with other people in an effective and efficient way.

We forget to be like, well, how do I talk to myself in a way that's going to help me?

And I would imagine as you go through, as you said, the inevitable ups and downs that come with any sport as an athlete, Having those details written down daily in a journal allows you to go back and see maybe some of the things you did on those days too where things went well or maybe the things you did in a certain week that ended up with a nice performance on the weekend versus think you know, the things you're doing daily in life when things aren't going as well and maybe see some patterns that way. It's funny. We just had Devon Levi on and he talked about the same thing that he uses journaling as well.

Yeah. And it's all like, you just said patterns, right? That's all you're looking for. You're looking for patterns. And again, the patterns can change.

So that consistency and being able to keep track of it is so important because like I said, we're all going to get different experiences. And sometimes it's the smallest thing that if we weren't paying attention to details, overlook. So a quick example is I had an athlete, a division one athlete, not a hockey player, but we had been working in the off season, really on her confidence. This was after her freshman season and she played a lot, but didn't feel great. She was always nervous and uncomfortable.

And so we were really working to just on her comfort level and her confidence heading into her sophomore year. And we met after her first scrimmage after we'd been meeting. And she got to the meeting and she was all like disappointed. She's like, I was so nervous. I felt so good.

I thought we'd been doing so much work. And she was just disappointed in herself because she didn't expect herself to still be nervous after all the work we've done. And I had a conversation, I was like, this isn't a magic bullet. You hadn't played a game in a few months. Like the nerves was actually the most normal experience.

I was like, I'm not worried that we had a few conversations and it didn't change your life. It's okay. And we were talking about the game and the things that she was doing. And it took us basically forty five minutes of just reflecting and talking about her process that day until she told me that she had a Celsius drink for the first time in her life about an hour before the game because her teammates drink it. And I was like, well, why did you drink a Celsius?

She goes, well, I thought, I don't know. They're like, my teammates drink it. It's like energy. And I was like, yeah, Celsius increases your heart rate. And she's like, yeah.

And I was like, explain to me when you feel nervous, what does it feel like in your body? She's like, well, my heart starts racing and I'm really sweaty. And I was like, could your heart have been racing? Not because you were nervous at all, but because you artificially kind of injected your body with this thing that just increased your heart rate. And she was like, Oh my God, I'd never even thought about it.

But so there was just like a simple thing that it took us some time of reflecting on what did I do that day? How did I get myself ready? And she just interpreted this physical reaction as an emotional one where there's a good chance it wasn't. But again, that self reflective process, it's important. Those details now.

To because we didn't name names, so we're not singling anyone out. A little PSA here. Those drinks are not good for you folks. Take it from someone who in his older years ended up strapped to a heart machine for forty eight hours to figure out where the palpitations were coming from. Don't drink Red Bull would be the advice that came back.

Not good.

Yeah. But so it's alright. Emotions, all they are is a physiological reaction that then our brain interprets as something. And so your heart could be racing and your brain is like, oh, I'm excited. Oh, I'm scared.

Oh, I'm angry. Oh, I'm nervous. Right? They all have a racing heart. And so it's just based on perspective and context of how we interpret that.

And so her heart didn't start racing until a little bit after drinking it when she was on the field. And so her brain was like, Your heart's racing and we're on the field. You must be so nervous. Not realizing that, like, it actually might have nothing to do with nerves. It was the drink.

And again, without the reflection, may have never recognized that. Just would have thought she was still nervous. Yep. We talk about focus all the time. I and there's there's several elements that go into it.

You just talked about sort of emotional, physical. There's also cognitive. Walk me through how those three things sort of interact and how we need to think of them or help athletes think of them or manage them in terms of getting themselves to the right focal point.

Yeah. I mean, I think as athletes, right, we spend so much time training our physical game, our physical fitness, our strength, speed, our skill, whatever it may be. And the emotional part is what people reach out to me. They think I work solely on emotions, right? Those nerves, that excitement, the anger, the frustration, whatever it may be.

I think the thing that we overlook the most is this cognitive part of our performance, which is like the information processing, the focus and the decision making. And when you think about goalies specifically, how much information are you taking in and how many decisions are you making every second? And how much of that information is changing? You can't pause the game, check where every single player on the ice is situated, find the puck, think about your own positioning, listen to what someone just said, and then be like, okay, let me consider all the possibilities, make my decision and then press play.

People here, sports psychology, mental skills, it's like emotional management, which is a big part of it. But I think the thing that we overlook the most is this cognitive part of our performance, which is like the information processing, the focus and the decision making. And when you think about goalies specifically, how much information are you taking in and how many decisions are you making every second? And how much of that information is changing? You can't pause the game, check where every single player on the ice is situated, find the puck, think about your own positioning, listen to what someone just said, and then be like, okay, let me consider all the possibilities, make my decision and then press play.

Like by the time you get that information as a goalie, the situation's already changed. So there's this cognitive overload, right? Our brain is overloaded with information and stimuli. And that's really what a lot of stress is, right? Stress and anxiety is an overload in your brain.

It's the same reason if you want like a non sport, very simple example. Have you ever been in the car lost trying to find your way and the first thing you do is turn on the radio so you can see better? Have you ever been in the car where people like, Stop talking, I'm lost. I'm trying to figure out where I'm going. Well, the music and the people talking in the back aren't blocking your view.

You can still read the street sign, but it's just an overload of information. And so what you're trying to do when you turn the radio off or tell people to stop talking is trying to get rid of some of that stimuli so you can think clearly. When you're on the ice, when you're in the net, you can't turn off the stimuli around you, right? You can't tell the crowd to be quiet and you can't slow down the game. So I talk a lot about mental toughness being this ability to manage that mental overload, all of that information, all of that stress, and figure out what is relevant.

Filter through, what am I paying attention to? What am I disregarding? Getting comfortable with that mental overload? All of those things, because the physical side, right? The more tired you get, the slower your brain works.

So the harder it gets to make those decisions to filter through. The more emotional you get, the more your focus starts to shift. And instead of tracking the puck, your eyes are drifting up into the stands being like, Oh my God, I didn't know they were here watching me. I wonder what they're thinking. Or, Oh my God, that other team, they won this game.

So if they won the game and then we lose, and then what happens in the tournament with the standings? And what do I need my save percentage to be to make it to the split? Suddenly your focus is anywhere but tracking the puck and making the stop. So that decision making piece and the information processing is huge and it's so connected to our physical performance and our emotional like experience.

So this is where the brain training comes in. This is where the mental skills comes in. Give us some examples of some of the things that you would do to try and if you're okay with it, to try and get us more comfortable with all that stimuli or try and getting get us as goalies to be able to focus on specific things within all that stimulus.

Yeah. There's two main ways you can approach it, and both are valid and I think both have their time and place to be used. The first way to approach it is simplify the game. This is where that self reflection and preparation comes, right? That like, let's not be reactive, let's be proactive.

So we know that there's an excess amount of stimuli and there's a lot of decisions you have to make. And honestly, a lot of what you do as an athlete is automatic. If you actually think too much about it, you're going to be doing it too slowly because your body's moving faster than your brain at that point. That's why you practice, that's why you train. So your body's reacting and you're not thinking.

So that first approach is simplifying all of that stimuli and all the decision making. I use the number three a lot. I feel like three is a pretty good magic number, but it could be one or two things. It could be three or four. I try not to go over three, but everyone's a little bit different.

Find three key words or three things that are going to ground your game, right? As a goalie, is it a positioning, like your positioning on the ice in the crease? Is it just a mantra or a word that's going to help your physiological arousal and your motivation? Is it just kind of a visual cue of where you want to look? It can be different for everyone.

And that's where I work with athletes on like, let's self reflect. What type of person and learner are you? Are you very visual? Are you auditory learner? Do you like words?

Are you kinesthetic? Do you want to tap into a feeling in your body, right? Feeling the stick in your hands, feeling your skate stick into the ice. It's different for everyone, but that's one way you can deal with that mental overload is like, no, here are the three things I want to focus on. Boom, boom, boom.

Write it on your stick if you need a visual reminder, right? Repeat it before you get on the ice. Some athletes, they wanna lean into that automated body, like the automatic part of the game. And so if you don't wanna think too much about hockey, find a good song or something and let that run through your head. Right?

We just want to fill that space in your brain with something that is going to benefit you and not distract you too much. In music or song lyrics can be a really good positive space filler where we're not overthinking the game, but we're not getting distracted by the score or what other people are thinking or mistakes or whatever it may be. So that's one approach. Let's simplify it, get rid of all the noise. The other approach is getting comfortable with that cognitive overload, right?

Growing your kind of mental capacity. There's a lot of interesting research that shows elite athletes actually have a greater capacity to hold information in their brain than the average person, just by the nature of what they do every day in training and in practice. They're tracking multiple moving objects all the time and making decisions under time and pressure and stress. And so their training naturally has increased their capacity a little bit. As an athlete, you can train that capacity even more, right?

Get really comfortable with an excess amount of stress and stimuli. Train and do physical skills while you have to make decisions. And I think like from my perspective, the decisions in training don't even always have to be hockey related. It's just overloading your brain. And so at the symposium you saw me at, right, I had people juggling and I was throwing numbers at them and making them tap their feet and move around.

And the point was just to overload their brain. Now they're not just physically juggling, they're mentally juggling. Can I track these balls? Can I process what she's saying and figure out what that means? What do I have to do with my feet?

So there's a lot of different fun ways you can do with it, but just like forcing yourself to do a lot at once. And then when you take the stuff away, it feels easier. Because you're like, Oh, I can handle that stress. It's overwhelming, but I was okay. I worked with the goalie coaches too, who sometimes like will have goalies doing drills and also maybe calling math problems out at them or just questions.

So they're tracking the puck while having a conversation. It's not what you want them doing in a game, but when they just have to track the puck and you take the conversation away, suddenly it's easier. Anytime you're in a gym, whether if you're just doing like strength conditioning, I always recommend, I love when athletes do a physical exercise and yeah, you do sets, so you need a rest, right? So maybe you're doing like a minute on a minute off, or you're doing a set of 20 and then you have a minute rest. When your body's physically resting, do something mentally taxing, right?

So whether it's like, okay, go do a set and then come over here and do a concentration grid where you have to track and find numbers.

Love concentration grids, by the way. That's something we've done for years here. I like it.

They're so much fun. Love I have the app on my iPad and my favorite is I make it really small. So it's just one through nine and how quickly can you get one through nine? It's one of my favorite games. But yeah, just doing things like that.

And so it could be do something physically exhausting, go make your brain, make a decision. And then when you're back, yeah, you're physically rested, but now you're mentally tired. But learning how to train yourself and do those things when you're tired is super important. So that was like kind of all over the place, but

No, no. Love it because it a

little bit of an idea.

It tied in a lot of the different things. You mentioned concentration grids, you mentioned juggling. If I remember correctly, some of the videos that were in the background, there may have been some object tracking, using, like, boards and some I know there's different tools and different training methods you can use there. The idea, though, is to test and sort of flex and work out the cognitive side. And I love the idea of also doing it in the midst of the physical because at the end of the day, our brain gets taxed on the ice while we're tired.

So why not combine that into our training when we're working out? I say we. When goalies, young goalies who are still aspiring to something beyond beer league are working out, test both things.

Yeah. And I love it too because I think the exercise in of itself is valuable. But for me, anytime I'm there and I get to do these things with athletes, you also get to see some of the mental skills come out, right? Because as they get fatigued mentally and physically, the self talk starts to become overt and they start talking to self out loud and sometimes it's not so positive or you see the body language and you see the frustration. So it's such a great, experience too, where you can play around with the mental skills in the moment because I'm not on the ice with the athletes I work with.

I can't be standing next to them during a game when a shot goes in and their head goes down or they're frustrated. So anytime they, we can create an experience that creates frustration, that creates adversity, it's just an opportunity to try and practice these skills we're talking about. And it's so much easier to work on them in the moment together than sit comfortably in a chair and talk, like everyone has the perfect answer when they're sitting down well rested in the comfort of their room or an office. They're like, yeah, I know exactly what you want me to say in this moment. I know exactly what to think, but in the moment it doesn't come so quickly.

So I always love creating experiences that can allow us to practice and work on these things in the moment together.

And they've got a diagnostic value for you as well when you're working with an athlete.

Yeah. You get to see it come to life. Right? So it and you get to point it out in the moment too. Right?

It's that self awareness thing. Because sometimes athletes don't realize it. I'll be like, Hey, what just happened there when you dropped the ball three times in a row? And they're like, I don't know. I'm like, You rolled your eyes and your hands went up.

And they're like, I did? Yeah. Right. And I'm like, what was going through your head? And they're like, I don't know.

This was frustrating. It was annoying. I kept dropping the ball, right? But sometimes we don't, we aren't always aware of our own reactions that become so automatic. So trying to point it out to them in the moment, like, do you see your head?

Did you hear what you just said? Where are your eyes? You have like, and it it just becomes so much more valuable.

I feel like this ties into a quote that jumped out at me from your presentation. Mistakes are not the enemy. And so putting young goalies in situations that are likely to lead to them, testing them cognitively and physically stress like we have in games is not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah. No. I love it's one of my favorite things is trying to come up with things to do that is going to create failure without a doubt. And so I think sometimes my athletes get a little bit annoyed with me because I have so much joy when they mess up, but they understand the value, right? If we're doing things that are easy, we're not growing.

We're not getting better. Like if we're doing stuff and we're making mistakes and we're continuing, we're getting better. We're doing stuff that's hard. We're challenging ourselves. And if you're an athlete, you love to compete.

And so you should love the challenge. That's what makes it fun. Right?

And Sorry. I was gonna say, so juggling, for example, and then you add different things and and it gets now we've got a physical test that actually coordinates to goaltending. We've had a cognitive element because they have to think about the different things, and we watched it at the present. It got harder, and guys started that looked like junk juggling was really comfortable. All of sudden, it got more difficult and balls started getting dropped.

The reaction to it, is that an example of, like, you're training the cognitive, you're training physical, is the reaction an example of training the emotional, the ability to recognize how they react when things don't go well.

Yeah. And so like, even if you rewind it a little bit, athletes that don't know how to juggle, when I first teach them how to juggle, I tell them it's my favorite thing to teach athletes because I call it exposure therapy to failure because you're going to drop the ball a million times. And the more we can experience failure and just pick up the ball and go again, the more you're going to realize it's just a part of the learning process. It's a part of the experience. Right?

And so it's not that you dropped the ball. It's what do you do after you drop it? And they're like, well, you told me I had to go again. I'm like, yeah, should pick up the ball and go again. It doesn't change anything.

Right? And juggling in and of itself, there's so many other skills you can throw in there, right? Your self talk. Athletes feel really silly when I ask them to do this, but I'm like, I want you to talk to yourself out loud when you're learning how to juggle. Actually talk yourself through the process.

Because when you're doing it in your head silently, yeah, you might be focusing on juggling, but it's really easy for a, don't drop it. Oh shoot, that was a terrible toss. What am I doing? Oh my God, I'm to lose it. I'm going to lose it.

I'm going to lose it. Like that can sneak in so easily. If you say, I'm just going to focus on tossing it and out loud you go, toss, toss, toss, toss. It's harder for that other stuff to sneak in because you're busy talking, right? And not only are you thinking it, now you have to say it and you hear it, so it's reinforced three times over.

So there's all of these moments where you can correct that kind of mental skill. And the amount of times where I try and encourage people to talk out loud, then you see suddenly it gets cleaner a lot quicker, right? Their tosses get better, their focus gets better, all of those things. And so that's just one example. It doesn't have to be self talk.

Sometimes it's their body language, right? It's just their reaction when you drop it. It's all of those things, but you get to see it come to life.

I was going say, and it sounds like that goes right back to whether it's the song or three keywords written on a stick that you repeat. Again, putting our focus back into the right spot, whether it's juggling or facing a three on two rush coming down the ice.

Totally.

The importance of partnerships. You talked about, you know, coaches, parents, I would imagine, play a role in this, how we speak to young athletes. You work at times with teams as well. Much rather have a team where the coach approaches you to be a part of it as opposed to just saying go work with my team. What are some some lessons you've learned along the way that maybe apply not just to the athletes, but to that the coaches, whether it's a goalie coach or a parent in terms of how we have these conversations and some of the way they maybe frame conversations with their young athlete or young son or son or daughter?

Yeah. I think the conversation I have so much with coaches and parents, even if I'm not working directly with them is how much like repetition and consistency is important when we're learning. And that's true when we're learning anything. It's when we're learning in school, when we're learning skills on the ice, right? The way our brain works is the more you repeat something, the more you remember it, the more it sticks, the easier it is for you to then recreate it.

So repetition is such an important part of our learning process, whether we're learning a new skill, whether we're learning how to talk to ourselves, whether we're learning what to focus on. And I think the biggest challenge a lot of young athletes have today is a lack of consistency in what they're hearing from all these different places, right? They might be hearing one. They have multiple coaches to begin with. So sometimes they have coaches that are telling them different things.

Then they have different voices at home. Then they might be hearing things from their friends or on social media, and it can be really confusing and overwhelming to try and navigate this sea of information that is maybe conflicting with each other and trying to figure out how to process all that can be really overwhelming. So I always try and get coaches and parents and anyone else on board of like, can we just be consistent with the messaging we're giving? Right. And maybe it's with like just certain words we used or how we approach things.

I think for me, the biggest thing with parents, for example, is most of the time, one of the biggest things I work on with goalies especially is trying to figure out like when is the appropriate time to like analyze what I'm doing and like assess what I'm doing. It wants the appropriate time to just let things go and keep playing. Right? If you just got scored on in the middle of the game, that's not the right time to sit there and critique yourself and analyze what just happened. The game's still going on And I need you to be confident and engaged and focused.

And unless it's like a simple adjustment that you know, like, okay, I need to adjust X, Y, or Z, it's not the right time for it. And thinking about, so, okay, what are they hearing between periods from coaches and are the coaches helping them reset and refocus on what are we doing moving forward? Or are the coaches stuck on what happened last period? What happened last period? All of these things that weren't going well.

As coaches, your goal is you want your athletes as confident as possible every time they get on the ice. And so highlighting what's working for them, showing them like, hey, this is what you're doing right now that's working. You don't have to change much. Find confidence in the things that they already have done, that they already can see like, oh, I'm doing things that are good. Same thing with parents too though, after a game.

Most people can't process information when they're physically tired and emotional. And so especially if it was a tough game, you're depleted of all your energy already because you're exhausted. Your emotions have probably been up and down throughout that whole game, which is a different type of tired. And it's not the right time to let's say analyze and go through and critique the game and think of like talk about what happened. It's not going to be a productive conversation for anyone.

So I try and have the same conversations too with parents like, Hey, I'm working with so and so. I actually have asked them to identify no matter how a game went, three things that went well that game. So if you wanna help me at the end of a game or when you get home, help them kind of identify what are the three things that you're gonna write down that worked well, that'd be great. And if you really wanna work on something that they need to improve, that's the conversation for the next day, right? And to be completely honest, every parenting situation is different and some parents are coaches.

And so that complicates the relationship and dynamic a little bit, but for the most part, parents are so well intended and like they truly want the best for their kids. They want their kids to be able to achieve great things. But most of us, especially in sports these days, paying a lot of money for coaching, let your money do the coaching, let the people you hired to coach do the coaching because these kids have so many coaches and really what they need is they need parents and they need a support system and sometimes they need somewhere to go and not think about the game and not talk about what's working and what's not working. I recently saw an interview with Aly Raisman, who is an Olympic gymnast. And in her interview, she talked about how she grew up doing gymnastics with a lot of athletes that they were actually better at gymnastics than her.

But she thinks that they got too tired and burnt out because of the expectations and the critique and criticism coming from home that they weren't able to sustain their level of commitment to the sport. And she was crediting her parents so much for just being parents. And she's like, if I did great, they were super excited for me. If I did poorly, they were happy for me for showing up. And we went home and had dinner and did homework and did other things.

And I just think it's so important. Like the timing of conversations, the context of it, the consistency in messaging, but also like the role clarity a little bit, right? Coaches can be coaches, parents be parents. And if your kid asks for feedback, great. Give them what they ask for, but sometimes they just need love and support.

And it's a matter of when you give it. Sounds like it's important. Like, stick keep it on a like you said, the positive sort of questions about things you like that you did in the car ride home, and maybe if the analysis needs to come out, it's the next day.

Ask ask your kid. Ask the athlete what they want. Right? I think it's a fair question. Some athletes are craving feedback and say, hey.

Like, let me know what do you want after a game? Do you want to listen to music for the ride home? Do you want to talk about the game? Do you want to download and process it? And you tell me what you think.

Do you want to talk tomorrow? I think again, everyone's different, so there's not one perfect approach is going to work for everyone. But I think giving the kid and the athlete some autonomy and letting them create the experience that they want is really valuable.

Have you had good feedback from coaches that you've worked with maybe recognizing, for lack of a better term, the consequences of the language they use between periods, whether they're moving their athletes forward or having them dwell in the past just based on how they approach an intermission or a post game?

Yeah. And I always give, Dan Hinote so much credit. So I work at with the NTDP, and so I'm out there about once a month. But the first year I worked with them was now like two years ago almost. And Dan Hinote was the head coach of the NTDP, that year.

He's now the assistant with New York Rangers. And I always say you can tell such a difference with the team in general when the coaches are invested in learning and improving their game too. The amount of coaches that hire me, I'm like, you need to work with my athletes, work with my team. They would really benefit. And then they kind of separate themselves from that process.

And then there's some coaches that are like, I want you to come work with the team. And they're like, I'm a part of that team. So I worked with a team, I would go out there once a month. I would also Zoom with any individual players on the team throughout the week whenever, they were interested. But the person who called me most consistently week after week was Dan himself.

And it was, here's what happened between periods, or here's what happened in practice this week. Here's what I said. What are your thoughts on my word or like words that I used, or am I approaching this right? Or I would share the presentation that I gave the team and we'd talk about language and I'd be like, this was the messaging I gave. And then he'd try and incorporate the same phrasing in his pregame speech that weekend or whatever it may be.

Together, we also, I had created a list of words I try to avoid that I think coaches use a lot, and I had alternative words. And so we created this whole document and we talked about it week after week of how am I communicating to the team? How is it lining up with the message you're sending? And so I always give him a shout out because more than any other coach I've worked with, he was so bought into that process of how he's communicating, how it's consistent with what I'm doing and getting that repetition in. And they won a world championship that year.

And like, it shows, like the difference in, like, the approach from all levels in the buy in at all levels is so important.

Well, it's just it's one thing to, like you said, here, my athletes need this, but if you're not part of that conversation on how you're wording it, you may be undoing all the work that they're trying to to do with you. Can you give me without giving away the whole list or too much information? Give me an example of a couple of words that coaches might use, especially goalie coaches that they might wanna replace them.

Totally. I mean and some of them aren't groundbreaking. Some were words that would come up in with with certain teams, but, I mean, for me, the cliche ones are, like, should, have to, all of those things. Like you have to do, you don't have to do anything. The I should have, could have, would have, those types of words.

It's not that you should do something. It's like, what are we striving to do? Or what adjustments would we make? I also, I'm trying to think from a coaching perspective. This is also very unique to me.

I try and avoid the word, and I just said it, try. Anytime an athlete says, I'm going to try and do something, or I want us to try because I think trying something doesn't guarantee we're going to do 100%. Right? Like, people think trying and giving their best effort are the same, but you could try something and only like go halfway. I think the word try is a little bit of a defense mechanism of like, sure, I'll try, but it's almost like I'm setting myself up not to do it.

And then I can be like, well, I don't I I tried. It's a little bit of this like safety mechanism.

You're dipping a toe as opposed to going all in.

Yeah. So I always say instead of trying something, we're going to go after it. I don't care how ugly it looks, but we're going to give it our like go after it. We're going to give it our all, whatever it may be, but we're not going to hold back because I'm not saying you have to do it right or perfectly, but I want you to give me your best effort. So little things like that.

I also, from a coaching perspective, I try and avoid, like when you talk about something, don't say that was like necessarily a great goal or a great win. Talk about the performance. Right? That was a great effort. That was a great play.

Like what are the things that are leading to the outcome that you're supporting or celebrating? Right? Even for like a goalie, right? Yeah, it was a great save, but what was the thing that set them up for that great save? Because what you pay attention to as a coach, what you comment on the most is what athletes then internalize as like, that's what's important.

That's what you value.

And if you if you talk constantly about process mattering, then you need to focus on the process, not the results that will allow them to trust that it does matter.

Yeah. Right? So if you're always complimenting the outcome, they think the outcome's all that matters. But if you can see the outcome but compliment the thing that set them up for that opportunity, there's more consistency there. So that's some of them.

I I love it. I love it. The try, but I didn't realize this, but, you know and I'm not a Star Wars geek by any stretch of the imagination, but it sounds like Yoda was the OG goalie coach. Right? Like, do or do not.

There is no try.

Yeah. Right? And, again, that's a personal one too, and I think some people obviously use the word try and give it their all. But that came from I actually, that word, I worked with a figure skater once and she met with me once all excited and said, okay, my goal for this week is I want to try to do whatever the jump was she was working on. And I was like, Interesting.

Why is your goal for this week to just attempt that jump? She goes, Well, I think if I take the focus off of landing it, I'll feel more comfortable going into practice. I won't feel like a failure if I'm not landing it every time. I just want to try it this week and try it every day in practice. And I loved her reasoning.

Again, she was really trying to be self aware and think about, I want to take pressure off of the outcome. I just want to try it. But for her specifically, was like, why do you think you're having trouble landing your jump? Like, what's the challenge? And she goes, well, not really jumping through it enough and like going in with enough power.

And I was like, do you think the word try might also cause you to hold back and not jump through it with enough power? How about we change it? Instead of just trying or attempting to jump this week, what if your goal is to jump through it? Really focus on a part of, I'm going to attack because that might actually set you up for more success because you're focusing on going in with the power and the effort you need to complete it. Because if you're just gonna jump and attempt it, you might hold back still.

And that's actually what's like, impacting your ability to actually land it. So that's where I got that try because listening to her process, was like, oh, wow. Attempting things is actually holding us back from really going for it.

So does this with this and and I'm not to play amateur, you know, sports psychologist here, but, like, from the outside hearing this, would this tie into things like visualization? Like, we're not gonna visualize ourselves trying and failing. We want to visualize positive results and how our subconscious mind might pay attention to the way we think of a task and the way it attaches itself to that task being completed?

Yeah. And I mean, I think it relates to that visualization. It relates to, like, the self talk that we do. Like, it ties into all of these skills. Right?

Visualization is so interesting because some of us are visual learners, but some of us aren't. So if you're like a kinesthetic learner, you might really struggle with visualization because closing your eyes and trying to see something that's not there is just really difficult for you, right? But so then your visualization process might actually not be visual at all. It might be like body sensations. Imagine what it feels like doing these things.

But again, you want to make sure you're imagining what it feels like as you go into it and fully commit to it. And thinking about it from a goalie perspective, you need to commit to certain actions. Anytime you hesitate, suddenly your tenth of a second off from making Even if you make the right decision, the right decision a tenth of a second late is the wrong decision. So, I mean, this is probably my I think my dad was the one who always said, I'd rather have you do the wrong thing a 100% than the right thing halfway.

It's funny because we just we had another goalie that we talked to recently for an upcoming episode from the Hershey Bears, Clay Stevenson. He talked about feeling like, actually feeling it in his body, like, as part of his pregame nap. He didn't know, like, sort of like a I don't know if it was visualization or meditation. I can't remember how he saw it, but actually feeling sort of the muscles and the sensation and the rink and the equipment and feeling like he was in those movements. But I never thought because other people describe it differently.

The reality is everybody interprets or goes through those sensations or those practices differently. And I guess understanding how you just like how you learn, how you think of things, how you feel those things would just innately require everyone to tailor these exercises differently.

Yeah. And that goes back to where we started with that self awareness. Right? What type of partner are you? Like, what type of things resonate with you?

What works for you? And you don't know if you don't spend time actually considering that.

Is there a lesson there for goalie coaches too? Not that we want them to delve into the realms of psychology, but, you know, I know one in in fact at the NHL level that does a personality test with his goalies to understand how his personality as a coach might mix or not mix in different ways and be able to sort of tailor his approach to that person's specific, again, again, lack for lack of a better term, layman would call it psychology.

Yeah. I mean, I think coaching requires so much psychology, right? It's not crossing any lines of trying to get to know your athletes better to do your job better. Right? I don't think you necessarily need a formal assessment to do so.

I think there's obviously there's formal assessments like personality tests and things like that, where you can get some valuable information. But I think conversations, Engaging with your athletes, not just on the ice or in a drill, but getting to know how do they communicate? And just like we were saying, I think athletes should write down and reflect what days worked, what was going good that day, this day I felt awful, was going good that day. So just can do the same thing about like, wow, this was a really good practice session. What were we doing?

How was I communicating it? Things like that. But also for coaches who maybe are coaching multiple people at once, right? That's one of the biggest challenges. Like goal coaching, you might have more one on one time, but you might be working with three goalies at once.

Sometimes it's really hard to figure out what's the best way to communicate something that's going to resonate with everyone that I'm talking to. And so I always try and make sure you incorporate all the different styles. So, you should explain things verbally, try and have a visual as well, and then have a physical example of whether it's a demo or something. How many different ways can you communicate things so it's hitting each kind of person? And for some people, they need to hear it first, then they need to see it, and then they need to do it.

And that's okay too. But just playing with the way that you could say one thing in four different ways and it's going to resonate differently with different people. So, that self awareness is so important for coaches too. And I think, yeah, you don't need a diagnostic tool to get to know your athletes better. It's sometimes just time, right?

It's putting in the time and going that extra mile of having a conversation, getting to know them a little bit differently, and paying attention to when are they thriving, when are they seemingly understanding things better, and being like, oh, that worked for that player. Let me see if I do it again. Does it work again?

I like you said, a journal for coaches as well would be a good idea by the sounds of it. I love it, the self awareness. Well, we only had audio. We you know? So our listeners are only getting to hear this, but I know with how well it was presented and how deeply you got into the various topics that they're gonna take away a lot of great information.

If any of them and I know you are chock full right now with tons of clients and teams and and very busy, but if anybody had any questions, so I'll first off, where would they just to check the website to maybe send you a note if that would be okay with a question, see about the opportunities to work with you or even to find the book. Where's the best way for them to to to find out a little more?

Yeah. I mean, I'm on social media. So Allain Mental Performance is my Instagram handle. It's a l l a I n mental performance. My website is the same exact thing, allainmentalperformance.com.

My email is the same exact thing, allainmentalperformancegmail dot com. So you can contact me on any of those and I will get back as soon as possible. I try to be pretty quick with my response time. The book is on Amazon. You can order it there.

If anyone is in Canada, I apologize greatly. The shipping via Amazon to Canada right now is absurd, I've been told. And so if you really are interested in the book, please reach out to me and I will figure out a way to get it to you at a more reasonable cost. I have been working on trying to make it more accessible across the border for the past year and it doesn't seem like there is a perfect solution yet. So if you are in Canada, you want the book, email me directly, DM me on Instagram.

Happy to find a solution that works for us all because I want to make sure anyone that's interested can get a copy of it. But yeah, it's on Amazon, Julia Allain, everything I got. But yeah, Instagram, Gmail, website, Allain Mental Performance.

And we'll have all those links in the show notes for those that are listening to this. You can always go back to the website and check the show notes. We'll make sure we include all those links. Julia, thanks so much. Like more than an hour here.

As usual, I went over, but I really appreciate the time. And I know our audience, whether it's goalies, goalie parents, goalie coaches, non goalie coaches that listen to this are all gonna take away something valuable that'll help them be better in games and on the ice even if not talking about the results is the key to doing so.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Outro

Alright. Talked about the list. I'm I'm curious. Send us an an email, some type of reaction to how long your list of notes was after listening to Woody and Julia have that conversation. I have a smaller notebook, but it it was was four pages of just bullet point notes. Woody, you've got a long list from listening to the presentation.

Hutch, what was one of your takeaways?

Yeah. I I I listen in a different way than you guys because I'm editing the interview as as I am listening, so I don't have that notepad out for the same sort of things. So I won't recall exactly the way you are, but I absolutely loved the content on how coaches speak to their teams. I imagine there would be a lot of coaches, struggling with what they were hearing and would struggling to implement it. The importance of being positive and the importance of challenging, kids to perform at their best for all the right reasons as opposed to the negative reinforcement that is so common in hockey dressing rooms.

Wow. If that one message could get to coaches and could change one or two people or even slightly modify how one or two people work things, I think it would be better for all the kids involved in the game and we would see performances elevated everywhere. So probably gonna go look for Julia's master's thesis and see if I can give that a read because I think it's fascinating work.

The book is, is wonderful too.

Mhmm.

That is on my list of things to to get done is is going through that, and I like the way that that that she presents it. I'm looking forward to going down that path.

Yeah. And, we'll have that in the show notes, in terms of links to where you can you can purchase it. As she mentioned, it's a little tough to get up into Canada because of shipping issues. But certainly, if you're in The States, it'll be an easy purchase.

However, if you do read on Kindle or something, you can you can get it that way. It's the shipping of the physical copy.

That becomes a problem. Yeah. No doubt. For me, I liked like how she separated the different sort of components, like emotional versus cognitive and how we spend so much time focused on the emotion. But if we increase the focus on the cognitive, we can decrease the emotional stress.

That was one of the big takeaways for me. And obviously, she's got methods and and ways that you can do that and ways that you can train that. The other part to me was and we've heard this before, and we've talked about that. We talked about this with Pete Fry as well. Right?

With Cayden Primeau, the Montreal Canadiens. If you're coming to her at a triage moment, that that's not the best way to approach it. And that's the common thing. Oh, my kid is struggling. They need help.

Or I am struggling. I need help with them. This is a daily thing. This is a daily practice. We keep stressing this.

We work on our physical on a daily basis as athletes. We work on our skills as goalies, catching pucks, steering pucks, skating. We work out every day. Why do we not some some of us train our eyes every day. So we're doing the visual training.

We're working on Sense Arena. We're doing all these different things. Why are we not doing this on a daily basis? If you don't train the brain, you're not going to have the tools when you're in high pressure situations. It cannot be a triage thing.

It has to be something you work on on a regular basis if you're looking to become a high level athlete.

Now, if the triage gets you into it, that's not

Fair enough.

Terrible thing, like, using it is better than not seeking any type of if it gets you in the door, stick with it. That would

be But there's there's tools there that can help you avoid at least the catastrophic triage situations. Right.

Sure. It's kinda like a kinda like a medical situation, isn't it? I mean, sometimes it's a terrible medical situation that wakes people up and makes them change how they approach their life. But, maybe you live healthy before that, maybe you don't. But, I think that's kind of a similar situation guys as opposed to waiting until you have a breakdown.

We don't call a goalie coach just because we had a bad game. We call a goalie coach long before is what he said and work on all those skills.

True. Some of us should make that call sooner than later.

On both sides. Yes. The medicine, the physical and mental.

Some of us have just given up on all of us. Next week.

You have not, Woody.

You have not. Next week, can we talk about adult goalie schools or goalie instruction? And and we need More of them?

Yes. Mean, plan

lead that because that's how we met.

Good good good point.

Daren's trying to think, how is this how we met?

No. No. No. It was the puck handling course that

I took. Yes. With Eli Wilson. That's right.

And and I didn't know that you were you were handling all that behind the scenes. So you're you're right. I can't believe that that I was on point with remembering all that. We But all we all take golf lessons. We all take do all this stuff.

Why not adult goaltending and and availability for instruction? This is a great resource. And watching the the clips with Woody and the goaltenders is is great, but to actually getting on the ice with goalie coaches would be cool for adults. Anyway

There are some goalie coaches that

I think we should have a camp at Vegas.

Nice. Yeah.

Yeah. Good good. Yeah. I will I will do it. I'll talk to some of the people in this backyard of Vegas and get you guys down here.

But just put that in in your back pocket for next week.

Let's do that.

And see if we can source out whether people do it. You the goaltender.

Know Hey. Let us know what we'll find

next week.

I know of one. I know of one that goes annually, and I know our good friend Chris, who's with it and sent me a report back on how it went this year. And it sounded like it was fantastic. I think they do it up in the Rochester area, Upstate New York, maybe Buffalo in that area somewhere. I'm trying to think of who was there, the Saint Louis Blues, development goalie coach whose name is just escaping my little pea brain right now was up there, helping them out as well this time.

So, yeah, as a goalie, do you do it? As a goalie, do you think we should have more access to it? And if you're a goalie coach or you know of a goalie coach that does it, also let us know if there's any access that they provide to more mature athletes Info. Goaltending world.

At ingoalmag.com. That's info at ingoalmag.com. Hey, no. Seriously, let us know. Daren has committed us to this discussion for next week, so now's your chance to weigh in before we talk about it.

I'm putting on

Dan Stewart. Thank you very much. Dan Stewart, I the brain uncramped long enough to remember his name. I apologize, Dan.

Stewie. Love him.

That's why I'm Woody's got tryout brain right now. It's okay.

Hey, Woody. Get back to it. Enjoy Peterborough. Hutch, you're going to Minneapolis, Saint Paul. It's one of my favorite cities.

And if you've never been

there I've never had the pleasure.

So much to do. Saint Paul gets a little sleepy at night, but it's beautiful.

That's my stuff.

And Minneapolis is just a fun place to to hang out at in in any season, sports or culture, music scene. So enjoy that, and we'll catch you guys next week on InGoal Radio Podcast. Podcast.