InGoal Radio Episode 276 with Jake Allen

Intro

The Internet blew up. We had a goalie goal in the National Hockey League, and one of the best takes was from the InGoal feed. We'll get into that in just a little bit. Welcome to InGoal Radio, the podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com, Daren Millard, along with the cofounders of InGoal Mag, David Hutchison and Kevin Woodley. We've got a great final part of our three part series in the parent segment presented by Stop It Goaltending U, the app about taking stats for your child, your little goaltender.

The NHL Sense Arena feature interview involves the history making Jake Allen, who also walks us through his gear selection and what he's gone through in the last couple of seasons. And the Hockey Shop, Gear Segment focused on the Brian's junior lines, but we had the goalie goal, and it was early. How many times have we had multiple goalie goals in a single National Hockey League season? I should know that going in. We've never had it.

Isn't it zero?

The answer would be never.

Does that include even playoffs?

Nope. Because the time it was scored in playoffs was, I believe, Hextall in '89, and he had scored in '87, '88, so not the same season.

Brodeur did it in the playoffs too, didn't he?

I did. 97 playoffs, and Osgood had scored in '96, but it was the same May season. So, no, the answer is no. No. We have not.

As a matter of fact, Daren, in terms of a goalie actually shooting a puck into a net versus an, you know, just basically an own goal and the goalie was last to touch so he gets credited, we've never had three straight seasons with a goalie scoring a goal until Filip Gustafsson did it last night, which gives us Linus Ullmark two years ago against the Canucks, Tristan Jarry last season against the Tampa Bay Lightning in late November, and Filip Gustafsson on October 15 against the Saint Louis Blues. So just ahead of recording this. Three in a row, and I will

put Don't tell me offense isn't up in the game.

That's right. It's all about the offense. Let me ask you this, boys. What did all three of them have in common that may be a defining characteristic of the opportunity and the importance

Can I go first?

Of what that opportunity looks like to actually having success.

Scored on empty nets.

That's a good one.

Yes. Because let's be honest, unless they put me in net at the other end, it's not gonna happen with a goalie.

I think I think Woody's cheating on this one. I think the answer comes from Jake Allen in the feature interview this week.

I think Woody may have had the answer from Jake Allen and then got it reinforced in a quick conversation with Alex Nedeljkovic, who was on his way down to Wilkes Barre for a, rehab game tonight. Caught up with him because he scored multiple goals in the minors, and he was on the bench when Tristan Jarry scored last year. So, Hutch, do you remember what the hint is then? We'll let you have it. We'll pretend you didn't listen to the interview.

No. No. I don't think I should give it away. I absolutely remember it. Listen to the feature interview coming up because there was more than just that specific circumstance that got me thinking about how hard it is to score a goal.

Some things I hadn't considered to listen to the feature interview when it comes up presented by our friends at Sense Arena.

Yeah. I want I want to know a little bit more than that. I I I need more of a teaser.

We'll have a conversation after the feature interview. No?

We'll we'll make Daren wait too.

There's something about the specific scenario that makes it more ideal and more importantly, just the reasons why that

Like, it's not being up by two goals or it's more complicated than that? No. No.

No. There's something more technical about what's happening in the game at the time.

Where the goal maybe maybe related to where the goalie gets the Woody Woody, you just I have to Daren. He died on the vine here. I gotta give him something.

Can you imagine Christmas Eve, Woody tells both his kids every Christmas present because he's so excited

about Woody. Way we get anywhere close to Christmas Eve with Woody. No chance. I know I know that I can wear them down here. I thought it was odd.

But here's the question. Like, because as good as these guys are and Alex Nedeljkovic told me he thinks pretty much everyone in the league can make the shot now. Like, you're an outlier now if you can't make that shot. It shows you so so it with that in mind and the amount of time that goalies get pulled even earlier in games, especially down two in this league, like, we're seeing goalies pulled out of the net with five minutes left in a lot not a lot, but in some games, the opportunities are up. The goalies have never been better at it.

Shouldn't we be seeing multiple goals in a year by now? And and the reason we don't is because a lot of those elements that Jake talks about in the feature interview, and that brings us to the one common denominator, which I will not give away despite the fact it's killing me. It's killing you. Killing.

It's killing Daren.

Why did Saint Louis put it on net?

That I mean, that was probably a mistake.

And up high. I can if you put it in because you're trying to get dump it in, get possession with a four check and and get an opportunity. But if you're gonna slap it in chest high, like, it's it's tailor made for the net minder.

It's about the worst thing you could do.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think so too.

Because he gets to set it up. Yeah. Right. And it gets there fast and ahead of the four jump.

The more you keep talking, Daren, the more likely Woody's gonna give it up.

That's what Daren's trying to do here.

Don't Yeah. I I don't think Woody will will will give it up. I don't think he will.

Let me just He's been reprimanded by Hutch.

If there if there is one if there is one area that lends itself to more goalie goals, what do you think that would be?

You're killing me. May maybe may maybe maybe Gus

Why don't we have

snuck out the the new Bauer protocol stick that we had last week with the 77 flex and the mid kick point and the toe little p 28 g toe curve.

Okay. There you go.

It's funny because, I I'm getting to skate a lot right now, and I used a stick. It wasn't that model, but I used a version like that. And it it was everything that I could do to contain my excitement with how high I could shoot the puck around the board. Really? It's it's not very good for making passes to your teammates, but we talked about before Filip Gustafsson scored, like, going to the bench and getting your goalie goal stick, that thing would work.

That's yours? The Or was it?

The the model that I used was a Warrior stick, but it had a very similar curve to the Bauer model. And I'm telling you, man, you you can get so much loft on it.

Well, we it's funny because Tristan Jarry, who up until last night was the last goalie to score a goalie goal, I have one of hip sticks in my garage, and Ned talked about Whippy. It is like the whippiest stick I've ever ever had. It is so flexible. And so, again, like, it's personal preference, but a lot of these guys have tools that are dialed in. Not necessarily for scoring a goal, although it helps, but for you get caught behind the net, you don't have a good outlet to safe plays to make sure you get it high off the glass and give yourself enough time to get back in the net, you've gotta be able to elevate quickly and get a lot of velocity on it up and off that glass so it doesn't get caught up on a four checker.

These guys all work on that on a regular basis, which is part of of why they have the skill to launch it over everyone's held head down the ice past the other blue line and in this case into the net.

I just would have trouble making a pass on my forehand like a an eight footer if I try to make it a fast pass because I would automatically get an airborne. And and on the backhand, I I would have no chance of making a backhand feed to the corner to my deep man.

Well, I mean, to Give it more of

a slap and less of a wrist.

Yeah. True. You know what I mean?

I don't have to I don't have to worry about that. If my team could actually bungee cord me into the net to prevent me from playing the puck, they would happily do so.

Yeah. We do breakouts every now and then, like, to to to warm up, and it's when when I'm just nervous doing that, getting out of that, making sure I stop the darn thing, but then to make the feed is I almost hyperventilate. But the idea, the the curve on it was so cool to be able to just rifle that thing up and around the glass. Just thinking about it all week. And then Gustafsson goes out and does it.

He he wasn't on top of my mind for a guy to go out and score a goalie goal. And I wonder how much it killed the guy that was backing up because that's on his bucket list, a a goalie fight or a goalie goal for Marc Andre Fleury, and he watched the goalie goal.

You saw the reaction he had on the bench. Like, as much as he would rather it be him, like, you saw how just how overjoyed he was for his partner to score it evidently during a TV timeout right before he told him, like, shoot at the net. Like, he gave him the instructions. Like, don't think if you get a chance, shoot at the net. It was a two goal lead.

It was late. Fifteen seconds or so left. It's your prime circumstance.

That opportunity, you lose the goalie union card if you don't shoot for it.

Was just gonna say too. He's gonna dump it in and try to kill the clock?

And he's

so for it. Gosh.

He's the perfect guy. Like, he's the perfect example for what I said. Like, you know, we know the guys that can chuck it. Right? Like like Ned, like Nedeljkovic, like Tristan Jari, Mike Smith used to be on.

Like, guys that just really good at firing the puck, whether it's passing or up the length of the ice.

He was sneaky.

But I'm not sure Gustafson would have been on that list. As a matter of fact, listening to the interviews afterwards, I don't think he put himself on that list, which is to the point that that both Jake and and and Alex Nedeljkovic made to me today. Most guys can do this. Most guys can execute it. It's about getting the opportunity.

Good lift on it. Good soft and the other part was he played a good game. He got some breaks along the way. There was a goal laid off, but he he played a really good game.

Nice to see. He's had he's had a couple of really good games to start this season. That's nice to see it. He was so good two years ago and then obviously came a little back down to earth. And don't pretend to know why, but it's just nice to see him playing well again for them.

There was a goal scored on a goaltender last week, and it was an old school goal. Net minder didn't have a mask on. You guys have an issue with with what happened? It was Dan Vladar in Vancouver?

I was at that game. I covered that game. There was only a minor protest from the Calgary flames because I think they realized it was well within the rules the way it all played out.

What do they call it? Continuous play?

Continuous play. They announced it in the building after a little bit of a review. Like, essentially, if the shot that knocks the mask off goes straight to an offensive player with a scoring chance, that scoring chance is allowed to be completed. And that's what happened. Shot from close range, real quick rising shot from Nils Hoglander, got Vladar are under the mask, buckled the straps.

You could see it. It was loose. He shook it off as the puck bounced off him off a defenseman right to Connor Garland at the other side of the low slot, and he swiped it into the open net pretty much all in one motion. So no chance for Vladar to get across and put himself at risk. And yet and that's the spirit like, it was by the book.

It was correct call. But, man, like, as a goalie, I cringe at the idea of shots being taken when when we don't have our masks on because what if Garland really catches that quick release on a one tee, but it goes off the toe or hits a leg and goes right into the side of Vladar's head. Like, we've seen players get hit by shots and it you know, it's Connor Garland from the slot. It's not like it's, you know, somebody walking into a one t at the point, but you could do some damage. And I just

But the play player's gonna do that anyway, whether it counts or not because they're reacting to it.

I think if the whistle is automatic, as soon as the mask is loose and they hear that whistle, you might have that guy let up. Maybe you're right there. Maybe it was it's fast enough to that it's gonna happen regardless. I do say this, like, please don't take away my Goal Union card. They're knocking at the door already looking to mister Woodley.

Can you take out your wallet so we can have the card back? But can't we find a way? Like, I understand that the elasticity of the mask has to have some give because that that is the mask absorbing that impact rather than our head and our face and our brains absorbing that impact. But the elasticity exists within the elastics. Can we not have it give without the buckles popping?

Because I think ultimately, the mask coming off is starting to become a safety issue, and a play like that is a great example why. Like, we can send people into space, as they say, but we can't seem to create a buckle that won't come loose when the mask is impacted. And and I would I would question or put it to the manufacturers. Maybe we need to ask them this question. You know, is there a limit in the range of elasticity in terms of how much it can protect you and you need the buckles to release to absorb some of that impact?

Is that by design, or can we find a better balance? Because to me, that was a really could have been a really dangerous situation even though the referees called it correctly.

Maybe I'll lose my union card right along with you, Woody. We can hand them back together.

Didn't know you two had wallets. Never mind union cards.

Yeah. We never we never get off them when you're around, Daren. So don't worry about it.

If you claim that buckle's releasing are part of the safety feature, I mean, it might be accidentally, but I don't believe they're designed to

have different way. That's designed for that.

But I've heard people claim that. I've heard people claim that.

Who? Probably me.

Oh, I'm not gonna name names, then I'll get in trouble. But I have definitely heard it claimed. Here's my suggestion. I think Woody's quite right. There is such an element of danger there that we have to protect the goaltenders.

But if your mask comes off, it's an instant whistle and a two minute penalty for delay a game. We have to solve the mask coming off. We have to keep them safe. But I don't think that team should be penalized completely of a scoring opportunity. So call a penalty for delay a game.

Take my uni card boys.

Wow. You went even one step further than me. Now you're penalizing me for getting hit in the head, not just oh. Now here's the question. I like that.

I like that.

Hadn't thought of that. I like Only

if it's off a shot. Because if somebody comes crashing through the crease and catches you, like, that's where there needs to be a point where that mask comes right off your head. Otherwise, the guy with the elbow or the stick or whatever could take your head with you. I wonder if there is a safety argument on that side.

There's definitely some tough spots in there, Woody. You know, the league is incapable of having rules that are anything but black and white when they do things like this. I mean, the puck over glass sometimes is not intentional. It's kinda crazy. But we we need to make black and white rules, so I think you would have to do it that way.

But I

Well, don't make black and white rules, people find ways around them.

Well, listen. I think there are a lot

Well, but, I mean, the game is but the game is played in gray areas. Right? I mean, almost every contested play could be a holding penalty, a slashing penalty, a tripping penalty. They're all over the place. Referees are very intelligent and understand games.

Did did you see the play?

But then the league brings these rules in, and they decide

to It wasn't goalie interference?

No. No. Oh my gosh. Wasn't goalie play.

Doozies, boys. We've had some doozies in the first

to come back to my curve thing from last week. I have an answer for why I was only partly wrong.

The the play that I saw last week was was it Brad Marchand that shot a puck out of play on purpose, but not over the glass? Just, like, shot it in the bench area. And, technically, that's not a penalty because it wasn't in his own zone.

It's more dangerous, but it's not a penalty.

He got a penalty. Delay game. Really? Yeah. Because because he was, like, shooting a play.

He needed a whistle and just shot it at the play, but it didn't go over glass. Didn't it wasn't from his defense.

So the refs actually have that discretion. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was called. And we're seeing a lot more delay games for knocking the net off by both defensemen and goaltenders in the first ten days of the National Hockey League season.

Hold on. Goaltenders? I wanna see that.

I haven't seen any of those replays.

Yep. I've seen three of them. One by a defenseman, two by goalies knocking the

net out. Which goalies, what game I need to look at this? Because I gotta be honest, either there here in Vancouver, they still suck the water out during the TV timeouts with a freaking $5 turkey baster. And if that's where we are in terms of standards as a league to keeping the nets properly anchored, we have a problem if we're calling penalties.

This is the all Woody rage episode. Here we go. Let's have another one.

That one drives me nuts. Get a wet dry. You can afford a wet dry vac to suck the water out of the nets for crying out loud.

That's the

National hockey league

facility and and that T Mobile Arena. Wet. Wet. Buddy Chicago, Chris Costalis, he sits down on a little vacuum and and sucks it out. It's his little seat while he does it.

Yeah. See? You ask him what he thinks of the teams that are still doing it with a $5 turkey baster.

Shout out to you. And and Andrew Stewart, our listener, who runs City National Arena, goalie, ebug, and he just had a daughter. So congratulations to him. Congrats. My partner on the pickles Thursday night team.

He's made the main guy. I'm really just help out and make him look good because my stats are so bad. I wanted to get into something that now I'm all distracted.

Are we, like, we are we gonna get into the goal?

Oh, the mask. The mask thing. Yeah. The mask coming off. You know what?

I'm I'm with Hutch. It it's it's a penalty. And I would love it if goalies had to wear chin straps, and that would keep the mask on. Even if the buckles came off, chin strap might keep it on.

Might keep Well, but then you don't have if it's a penalty, you don't have to mandate the chin strap.

No. But one or the other. It's just natural. Understand why goalies don't have to wear chin straps.

Well Daren Daren wants to mandate danglers too.

Yes. I do.

I knew it.

It's all in the spirit of safety. Don't get mad at me.

In the spirit of just continuing to, like, throw gasoline on the fires of these debates, Well, forget about goalie interference in terms of guys bumping through the crease because we've seen some questionable ones, and we've seen some ones that upset the fan base that I'm like, that was obviously not gonna count. What about last night, Arturs Silovs wraparound attempt, puck sitting on the pads, and the player pushes his pad into the net. You see the stick flex. Yeah. Pushes the pad into the net.

Serious stick flex. Doesn't count. Waved off correctly in my opinion. Yeah. On another network, in another city, in the Oilers game, Matvei Michkov scores his first goal.

Similar play not quite the same. On the wrap, instead of, like, flexing into the pad, his stick jams into the toe of Skinner's pad and appears to move it, creating instead of a toe box on post seal, it moves it enough that now he's sort of a skate on post. There's a gap between the bottom of the pad and the post, and Michkov shoves the puck in there. Now he didn't push the puck over the line by pushing the goalie's equipment, but he pushed the goalie's equipment out of the way to create the gap. You could make that argument on the review.

That Yeah. I wouldn't have a problem with Michkov one. I didn't have a problem with the Michkov play.

Where's the line on the two?

Plus, clearly, between the the two because I didn't have a problem with one, and and I thought the other one was

Okay. So is the difference just because because Shesterkin actually gets pushed into the net, and Skinners gets pushed out of the way but not into the net?

Yeah. You gotta allow a a battle for the puck in that instance.

Okay. As long as you don't push it into it. You push it out of the way, but not into that. Okay. But, you know, it's just like I was pushing

the issue. But it's not is that Michkov wasn't trying to push him out of the way so he could create

Fair.

A a puck in the net.

But intent isn't intense irrelevant. You can get a tripping penalty if you don't intend to trip the guy. True.

Or a high stick. Yeah. I didn't mean to. You know what I mean?

So I don't I don't think I'm with you on that one. I I don't this is a really tough one to draw a line on. I do clearly, you should not be allowed to just shovel a goaltender into the net to get a goal. At the same level, I don't we all appreciate that goaltender who can hold his ground, who can get those feet anchored, who can battle to retain their position? How do we encourage that?

Yeah. They need to be green, like, climb a scrimmage to push.

It's chaos if you do that. No. I know. I know. I know. It's I It's super hard, but at the same time, we don't want a situation where a guy can just be all loosey goosey and whatever. Oh, I got a little push, so it's no big deal. I I don't know where he's at.

That Tampa that Tampa one, that stick flexed, like, that was Well, that was I can't that thing had a serious bow on it. I'm like, he was pushing hard.

Oh, I agree. But I've got so little faith in the league. That's why I texted you, and I said I thought it was gonna be a goal anyway. But

You you're so You called it jaded. The Leagues not doing a bad job.

I I I correctly told him there's no way it counts.

Yeah. I'm not saying this just to defend the league. I think that they're doing as as good a job as they can. I I don't know why Hutch is so bent out of shape on this.

Yeah, Hutch.

Well, just just because so many of these calls seem to be fifty fifty. This one, Woody was right. It was black and white, and he he called it correctly. But so many goalie interference ones are are 50. Okay.

Here's one. Super, super It

was a little call back. Review considering how obvious I thought it was.

Yes. It was a long review considering how obvious it was, Woody.

Edmonton, Calgary. I think it was Edmonton. It was definitely Calgary. It was Dan Vladar. Had a goal called back, goalie interference.

It was. It was Corey Perry. And it was ruled no goal, goalie interference. Came out and said, that was a good goal. That was gonna count.

Like, you talk about losing your goalie card. There's there's 64 guys around the league going, can we keep that to yourself?

And then Edmonton had two more calls back in the next game. Yes.

That's the one where Perry sort of was standing in the crease Yeah. But didn't really interfere.

Yep.

And in that case, I agree with Vladar. It it should have been called a good goal. But if Vladar had actually tried to battle for that space, then I think it's interference.

Yes.

Because he

is But you you gotta battle in the crease. The goalies

are told Yeah.

Initiate that contact Yeah. Inside the the crease.

Connor Ingram did it.

And I think that's the big difference there.

Connor Ingram did it, I think, the same night ever so slightly in the Rangers game and got that same call. Yeah. It's funny that Vladar didn't think it was an issue. I think there were two parts to that one that to me and I hear that it it shouldn't have been goal interference argument. One, prior to that, like, Vladar had time to reset, but Perry just basically skates right into him lower than the crease.

So the fact Perry goes in there himself without being pushed and initiates that much contact. And then if you look at it carefully by the time the shot comes, as Vladar goes to move his blocker out, it's it's either his blocker or his stick that get makes contact with part of Perry, and it turns his blocker or part of

it. Yeah.

So if you're in the crease and the goalie goes to reach, even if he's not gonna make the save and it affects the position of the hand that's reaching, like, that's enough, guys. It's not hard. Agreed. Agreed. Get out of the blue.

It's not hard. Like, you should be getting penalties for the initial contact.

And we see seen some guys who are outstanding at standing just outside the crease. I mean, we've seen guys literally look behind them, make sure my blades are not on the crease, and then I'm gonna be an interfering you know what. So it's possible to have that skill and play it well, and standing in the blue should kinda like the international rule on that one. That would have avoided all of this.

No. That's a

He's standing in the crease below the whistle. Yeah.

Hey. But the international rule blows it dead as soon as the goalie's mask comes off. As soon as a puck makes contact with the goalie's mask.

Well, I didn't say I had had to agree with every international rule. I just like this one.

I'm just like I'm just like poking and prodding to both of you as much as I can today. Let's get

fired up. Getting me I'm I'm too mellow, Woody. Not gonna happen. I

ordered a inner glove. What do you call it? The

We call it an inner glove. Hand protector. The Trinity? Yep. Yeah.

Trinity model. Little Hockey Shop special for you,

Daren.

Looking, looking forward to it.

There's testing. There's beer leaguer facing NHL shots, so I think you should be able to give a review for The Hockey Shop and us to publish. Really? Yeah. You should.

I think you you should pull your phone out in the room after one of these practices and give us an honest to goodness little review.

You gotta catch a puck. Gotta catch a puck first. Well, it hit me right in the hand, and then I got a stinger, and then I got one, like, right in the same spot the next day. I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm I'm ordering that glove.

Absolutely. That's awesome.

What's going on over at the Hockey Shop?

I was just wondering if I could get in with my stick measuring thing because Oh, yes. We'd come back to

the city. Let's do that.

Alright. So I consulted a referee.

This is your whether there's there's an illegal stick rule in place anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I claim there was no illegal stick rule. You guys looked up the NHL rule book. You proved me wrong, and I said, I'm sure there's something to this.

I checked with an official, right after the show. He's a supervisor of officials locally here, well known for his understanding of the rules. And he said the Hockey Canada rule book took out the illegal stick. And he even told me that it's because they consulted with the companies and were told there's pretty much no legal sticks anymore anyway. And if you act when was the last time you saw a stick measured in the National Hockey League?

And, he and I were actually talking about taking his stick measuring device down to the local store to look at some of the, current models that are on the shelf to see if they would pass. But all that to say, I was wrong, boys, about the National Hockey League, but I wasn't completely wrong.

Just about the National Hockey League? Yeah. Which we were talking I

was partly wrong.

Wonder if anybody even knows it's out of the rule book in the Hockey Canada rule book.

I don't know.

Because the first thing I'd be doing is if I want that, I'd be making an illegal curve or or or a bigger curve because there's there's no illegal curve.

And you know what the hard what the hard the hard part about that now, Daren, is that we can't like, you know, they always used to have the stove and heat it up in the stove. You must see other things heat

up heat up

in the curve it?

There's no I don't know if you can. I I'm guessing you can't. Really?

I have no idea. Carbon fiber. I mean, you're definitely doing damage if you're adding heat to some of these new I mean, given the properties and the amount of research that goes into all the carbon fire layering and all the all the different layers of stuff they have to have them hold those shapes.

Probably wanna wear a mask while you're heating it up.

Oh, gosh. If my kid did that with his $400 stick and then it broke the next practice right there.

Oh. Well,

can't you buy a cheap carbon fiber stick and try it out?

Yeah. There's no such thing.

I guess we could well, actually, I have some broken sticks here, so maybe we could try that. But I I kinda doubt it.

Now can we get over to the Hockey Shop? Because if you try and if you try and curve

your our stick measuring device.

You try and curve your carbon fiber stick and it breaks, go to a Hockey Shop and buy a new one.

That's that's good advice. Try and warranty it. Try and warranty it. Don't say them like that Daren sent you with your heated up bubbles coming off of the carbon fiber. What's going on at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports?

Gear

It's a time of the year where a lot of people have their equipment. They're set, but there's a lot of young goalies now that are maybe just moving into the position full time. Maybe they need their first set of gear. Maybe the association set just isn't quite good enough. Maybe they've grown out of it.

Maybe it's just that time. So who do you turn to when you have questions about what they need for protection, for mobility, for movement, you go to experts like the ones at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Not just Cam, but his entire crew. They're all goalies. They all play the position.

They all understand what's needed to play the position at the highest levels, but they've also been working with youth goalies for years, and they know how to get your kids set up in equipment that will allow them to skate, allow them to move, won't be restrictive. It'll allow them to learn at young ages. And as we get into this week, the first of several segments, I was gonna say in a row, but we'll interrupt it with a new launch in the next couple of weeks. But over the next five or six weeks, we're gonna roll out a lot of the different options that they have in stock right now for that youth, junior, intermediate size goalie, various price points, various features. There's a lot of variation from brand to brand, and we're gonna get into that with Cam over the next, like I said, several weeks for all those parents that have questions.

Once it's time to buy that first set of gear, but what the features you should be looking for and what each brand offers, we're gonna go through it with Cam starting this week with Brian's. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. We're gonna continue. It is that time of year where parents are looking for new gear for kids. Kids are deciding to be goalies full time for the first time.

What better place to come than the Hockey Shop, Goal Utopia, Brian's junior intermediate youth lines, basically. Gonna have Cam walk us through it, the key features, different flex points, different options that'll help make sure you get the right pad for your young goalie, whatever size and strength they are at the time. Cam, first off, let's just go through the two different we've got two different lines here. We got two different lines. Tell me what they are.

The current two different lines. Okay. We got Net Zero 3.

Alright. Net zero 3.

That's gonna be Brian's more of their entry.

That's this one, not this one.

Yes. That's that one right there. Then if you wanna take a next step up a little bit, then we will jump up to the iconic x. K. Okay.

What's the difference? What do we have the two lines for? Why? Why? Why?

Why? K. So tons of our options with that net zero three. We'll start off with the leg pad first, which Kevin is holding here.

Very flexible.

Flip it around. There we go. K. You still see Brian's smart strapping system, which is consistent across all of their lineups. Again, nice, easily adjustable, quick.

Easy to get into. Easy to get on.

That's the whole point, especially with this lineup. Their smart boot strap. They also have their original smart toes as well. Nice and easy. A little bit of a stiffer elastic than we find in most of the pads itself.

However, again, something that's nice and easy to be able to lace up and do. So nice open wide knee cradle. One of the features that I do really, really like about this pad, especially in that junior, is that there's lots of landing surface here. So this can really help us fit that pad. Ideally, we do wanna fit the pad for growth room.

We fit it perfectly. It's not gonna last. So having that child a little bit lower in that knee cradle, but still hitting enough of it and getting that proper control.

And then they grow up and get taller in the knee cradle. And there's some room to grow there. A little bit more flex in this one than we've seen in some other lines where the idea is to sort of create that fixed edge and stability. This is a pad.

It's a very soft and flexible pliable pad.

If your young goalie's not that strong, the last thing you want to have them do is fighting against a pad that's too stiff. So they're pushing and the pad's not moving. This thing's gonna move with their legs.

Exactly. Exactly. So overall, nice entry feature style of the pad. One of the things that I do really like, and you can see it on the blocker, you can also see it on the glove.

So show us on the blocker.

Are these indents that you see here. These are for precut color kits that Brian's makes that we can definitely get for you, and you can change the colors of your pad. So this pad is available in white or black, and then you can change the color separately on the side.

It's like a pad skin, basically, that type of thing. You have a pre peel and stick, precut for this space. You can add your own colors, which is also a feature that, hey. Look good, feel good, play good. Kids are gonna love that.

Exactly. So Iconic X? Or we're still blocker

Net Zero. My

bad. K. So overall feel wise, nice basic blocker. Thicken the actual blocker board itself. Don't have to worry about any injuries or anything like that.

Nice easy closing catcher, single tee style as well based off of their older sub zero kind of line in terms of for style of closure. That said, the biggest thing here is easy to close out of the box. Okay. So On to Iconic X. Correct.

Alright. What's different and why would I choose this over the Net Zero? Well, for starters, Primo, the legendary slide surface.

Slide easier. Slide better.

Yeah. You'll find this on all of Brian's pro level gear. Trickles down into their mid level models, so Iconic X and then also their Optic X3, which is on its way out. One of the big features that has changed this year, and you can really see the difference between that and what would be the net zero knee cradle itself. Little bigger, a little more stable.

Correct. Correct. So as you're touring through that lineup, again, it's finding something that's a little bit more stable, a little bit more advanced. This pad Bigger, stronger, heavier goalie? And not necessarily even heavier.

It's just something that can harness, like, those features better, for example. I think it's a better way to put it. And you can start to see some more refined features on the pad itself. That air knit material, keeping that leg nice and cool. Just some better materials in general.

It is reflective of a higher price point and we'll get to that in a little bit here. Toe ties are different. Correct. We do see their smart cord bungee toe ties as well. This is also what comes stock on all

of their pro level pads as well. You can adjust although, kids, I mean, they're not gonna be looking for big gaps, but you can adjust the gap between where it starts, give you a little flex so your skate gets to the ice.

But it's good. We also don't want that skate, like, you know, literally welded to that boot of that pad either. We do want that little bit of the gap to, again, have that kid, you know, learning to get his skate out of the pad. Love on the Iconic X. Double t, very wide open pocket.

And, the big thing here is nice, easy, snappy closure.

And you get the eyes.

You get the thief eyes. Exactly. Thief away. That's it. Blocker?

Walker. And as you can see, obviously, have colors. Colors. Yes. The colors are coming stock of this.

No skins for this one, unless you wanna do pad skins yourself. Blocker, very reminiscent of that net zero blocker as well. In terms of for overall feel wise, it actually has a little bit of a thinner board. It's a little bit lighter too, so a little bit better balance. Again, those are reflective of having a little bit more of those premium features to go through.

Okay. Two different different size options then? Like, did they both run through the same sizing range?

Correct. So the way that Brians sizes their pads is a little bit of off sizing. So you see a twenty seven plus one, twenty nine plus one, and then you're into thirty, which would be their intermediate sizes. Basically, two sizes of junior that we have to be concerned about. Consider it that twenty seven a lot like a twenty six instead of that twenty nine a lot like a twenty eight.

Okay.

In terms of comparing each other brands.

Price point. You mentioned it. There's obviously a difference. I I know, as soon as I see the rigidity of the Iconic X compared to the flexibility of the Net Zero, I'm picking more expensive foams. You talked about some of the features, the pro level features.

How much more? What kind of a difference are we talking?

So we can play guess the tag for a second here. So we have $729 on a junior pad over there and for this junior pad, you're looking at $479. So close to half a difference.

Okay. So probably this is a little little more entry level, younger goalies just getting started and which kind of fits the features we talked about and as they grow up and into the position a little more, this is a little higher end. That's correct. There you go. Brian's net zero, Iconic X, junior intermediate youth pads.

Again, there's a lot of information in there, a lot of variables in terms of how these different lines will play for your young goaltender. If you have questions, Cam and his crew have the answers. They're outfitting young goalies in here every day. They know how they play. They know how they fit.

They know how they feel. Call them if you've got questions. 604-589-8299, 1-800-567-7790. He will talk slower when you actually phone to ask him questions. I promise.

He does have a lot of information in that brain as loathe as I am to give him credit for it. Make sure you take advantage of that expertise when you're outfitting your young goaltender for this season.

Thanks, Kevin.

That's awesome. And if you if you're in a you're listening to this podcast, if you're in a goaltending or you have a child that's in the goaltending, but I always think and share this with people. If you know a new child that's playing the position and their parent, steer them if you're in the Lower Mainland or to, your local hockey shop to go there and ask questions, about how to wear the gear or put the gear on. Go go to those people. It can be intimidating, but, I think you you'll come out so far ahead if you just lean on some of these experts for your little child.

Yeah. And there is some we're gonna get into some of the models. Like, some of the models are like it's like it's like miniaturized pro gear.

Mhmm.

Right? And for some kids, that's great. But for others, it might be too stiff. Like, the biggest thing and we see parents quite often wanna leave room to grow, and I get it. I understand why because it's expensive.

Even even though these things are are priced a little more accordingly. It's not like buying a set of pro gear, though some of it looks like pro gear. But if it's too stiff and it's too big and they can't skate Yeah. You're doing so much harm the other way.

Watching them skate out to the crease, they almost need to be pushed out to the crease to to just stand there.

But you'll save even more money, Woody, because your kid will hate playing goal, and then they'll quit. You won't have to buy the equipment anymore.

So if that's your goal, pardon the pun, then you should definitely

$2,000 pads at age five.

Yeah. And and make sure that the thyrise comes up to their navel or their belly button, and they can't butterfly, and they can't skate, and they can't move, and they just basically fall down in the crease, and they won't wanna be the I was gonna

call Hutch out for being such a crabby pants this week, but, I'll go this way. Who used the word navel anymore?

A navel a self proclaimed navel gazer like myself.

I haven't heard that word in a long time. Just got you right off the hook the last second.

Oh, wow. Navel. Yuck. I'll I'll I'll go completely down the rabbit hole in this one. I actually spent a week picking oranges in another country where they did not speak English.

And I asked the person, because I don't know much about oranges at the time, what kind of orange am I picking? And she looks at it and she goes, this is a belly button orange. Really? Yes. I swear to you.

Happened. Anyway, Hutch going down the rabbit hole. I don't say navel either.

Parent Playbook

Hey. Part three of your three part series on stats, in the Mhmm. Stop It Goaltending U the app parent segment.

Before we get into the stats, we should probably tell you about one of the features on Stop It Goaltending U, the app. We touched on it last week. I wanna remind people, reports, game reports. You can order just go to the services section on the app. If you wanna sample it, you can order a single game.

You can buy a package of eight. You can buy a package of 24. You upload the video to a dedicated Google Drive folder in your name, and a Stop It Goaltending coach will watch the video. He'll track the stats for you. And I know Hutch is gonna get into that a little bit using their software, which gives you things like expected goals and save percentage, kinda give you a flavor for just what type of chances your son or daughter was actually facing in that game and what the expected results would be at that age level, at that skill level.

They make notes. They do a voice over, clip by clip breakdown of the video you submit. Basically, like a ProReads session, but with your own goalie coach, in this case, one of the Stop It Goaltending coaches. It's video game reports. It's available on Stop It Goaltending U, the app, exclusively and also available when you get a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

Not just available. It's included. A one year subscription or as an ongoing subscription to InGoalmag, the premium product. So then you can take everything you've done with your video game reports and compare notes to how the NHL do it. Something Jake Allen's gonna talk about in our feature interview, how to watch video and learn from it.

You can do that yourself with Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

Alright. But he did a pretty good job there. He likes to give away the Christmas presents early. He only unveiled a little bit of today's talk.

It's called a tease.

I know. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. We began this series, guys, talking about why I think that keeping shots on goal and save percentage for your kid isn't all that useful and more importantly, it doesn't give you any feedback that you can use to become a better goaltender.

Last week, I shared some of my thoughts on talking to your goalie after a game in a way that can be useful and is more focused on process than on numbers and doesn't really use stats. So this week, said I would come back and talk about what if you really really really want to take some stats but wanna do it in a more meaningful way. I've got a couple of ideas for you. Interestingly, guys, shortly after we published our show last week, quite by coincidence, we noticed on Instagram that Stop It Goaltending's Brian Daccord shared a similar concept to what we were talking about last week. That idea of looking at goals from the should have had, could have had, and no chance perspectives.

I would suggest you go check out Stop It's Instagram, see Brian's, video on that so you can learn a little bit more about how you can take that and then interpret it after a game. But as we said, shots on goal have no context. A breakaway from Connor McDavid is a shot, and so is a dump in from center ice that happens to hit the net. So simply counting shots isn't doing anything to help your goaltender become a better goalie. So what can you as a parent or if you're a goalie coach listening to this, you might be interested to know as well.

What can you do that could be a little bit better? One thing you can do is keep track of a bit more information than just shots, and we'll talk about a tool that Woody's already teased that's good for this, but you can also design your own system. Before that though, we also talked about having conversations with your child about what they're learning in practice, what they're working on, especially if they're lucky enough to have a goalie coach that they work with. But even if they're on their own, we want them to become their own best goalie coach. So what have you been doing this week?

Before a game, you can say, what would you like some feedback on today? And you don't need to be a goalie coach to do this, parents. There's a great book that, I came upon again today called the inner game of tennis, and it's subtitled The Classic Guide to the Mental Side of Peak Performance. What's cool about this book is it's based around tennis but applies to just about every sport using a method that can help your athlete even if you don't know the sport so well. And it's as simple as saying to them, what do you want me to watch for?

And maybe it would be your goalie telling you something like, I really wanna make sure my heels are on top of the crease when I'm facing a shot. Okay. I'm gonna count those for you today, and I'm also gonna count the number of times I think you could have done it, but you didn't. Now there's a lot more to the inner game of tennis's method than simply counting. There's a way of providing feedback and so on, and I'll I'll leave a link to the book if anybody's interested in reading it.

It's a it's a quick read. But it is a great way of helping. Simply having this idea of counting something that you're working on really will help you focus on it and become better and learn from that process. So that's one thing. You can also have your own system for tracking shots that's a little bit more than just how many were taken in a particular game.

So grab yourself a piece of paper and write down some of the things that you'd like to track in that game for your son or daughter. Now one of them might be that thing along the inner game of tennis lines that your goaltender has said that they would like to be working on in that game. And then you can have a couple of other boxes that you might wanna track, like how many puck handles did they have that resulted in the puck going to their own team, or how many rebounds did they control, or how many times did they catch a puck cleanly. Those sort of things you can put on your piece of paper and just little tick marks. How many times did they happen?

And if you really, really wanna track shots, I would suggest that you create a few categories. One of them, maybe we call them grade a's, include things like breakaways. Shots that begin with a a pass across the middle of the ice, shots with a screen or a tip or maybe a two on one. You don't have to be a goalie coach to recognize these sort of things. You might have another category that you're gonna keep track of for shots that we all know are are really tough shots.

Shots in the house, that area between the dots, right above the crease. Those are difficult shots. So maybe you've got another one for shots that are fairly simple. Clear sighted long shots, shots from the corner that really had no chance of going in. And with those three boxes and maybe those other pieces of information you're tracking, you can give better feedback to your goaltender because a grade a shot like that at just about any level, those breakaways, those tips, those screenshots, you should be stopping something more like two thirds of them, not 90%.

Those long distance ones, you should be stopping 95% of them or even more. But by simply having those little boxes that you're keeping track of, you can give some feedback from with your stats that's a little bit more realistic to what's happening in a game. Now back to Woody's Tees. If you want an option that has a system built in that is much more sophisticated, that gives you game reports, that get emailed to you, that lets you report not just on save percentage, but an expected save percentage. What would a an average goalie at that particular level have done in that game?

Or an expected number of goals based on the type of shots that you faced. Again, different depending whether you're a pro, you're a junior goaltender, you're a minor hockey goaltender. All based on the type of shots, then Stop It Goaltending's game day app is a great way to go. You work with a phone or an iPad, and you track every shot that your goaltender faces. They've categorized them into four major types, and then each of those have subtypes as well.

You just have to click on a on a little box as each shot happens, and then they will create that game report, the expected goals, the expected save percentage based on the input that you've given. They also track things like rebound retention, glove performance, playmaking, and so on. The reports that they give you give you a much better idea of how you performed in a game. So, you know, if you're on a team that's given up a ton of grade a shots, the app is gonna know what percentage of those should go in at your level. And instead of simply deciding that 900 isn't good enough, you can learn that, no.

You know what? In that game, an 850 or an 800 might have actually been a a pretty good expected save percentage. Or maybe you gave up five goals and you're feeling a little bit depressed, but based on the shots you faced, the game day app's gonna tell you, no. An average goalie in that game would have given up 6.2, so great job. Or sometimes we have to face the negative side of those two things.

I've used the app for my son. I've used my app for junior a goalies I've coached. I've used it for goalies at other levels, and and I think it's great. And I'll be honest though, I I don't use it every single game. The feedback chats I talked about last week, think are much more of what I use when I'm working with a goaltender because I wanna focus on the process.

I don't wanna focus so much on the results. But sometimes you have a goalie whose mental picture of their performances just doesn't fit what you're seeing. Or if you're a goalie coach, please not if you're a parent, but if you're a goalie coach and you work with a head coach whose own view of what's happening on the ice doesn't really line up with yours, that Stop It game day app and their reports that they create for you are super helpful. I've literally sent those reports to head coaches at the junior a level to say, you know what? Your goalie is actually playing pretty well here and here's why.

And and they've been super, super helpful. So I still believe that you should focus more on the process than the results and and even expected goals or results. But if you want to keep track or if you've got a specific instance where you think it's going to be helpful, doing so with a bit of context is highly recommended. Whether you use your own system, whether you use the system from Stop It or another, just a couple of options that you could work with. Love getting feedback on this series from people as we have.

If you have any feedback on this or anything you wanna chat about, hit me up parents@ingoalmag.com.

Just wanna look at the the entire idea of stats for your son or daughter.

Mhmm.

It's not like any stat is better than no stat. It really does it really does have to have some more fine tuning than that. Right?

100% agree with that. I've I've been in conversations with people where they say that same thing. No. But it but it's the only thing we have, so we need to use it. No.

If it's flawed, it's worse than using nothing. So I absolutely agree with you. And look, the truth is most goalie parents, at least in my experience that are doing this, want to use those stats because they want to give their kid better feedback. Because quite frankly, the other people in the stands or on the team who only watch NHL games where announcers tell you they needed to have a nine twenty that game or oh my gosh, that was an eight fifty. What a terrible game.

More often than not, we're coming to the defense of our child. Not so much saying to other parents, yes, but that was a 70 shot game, but just for our child. We wanna help them through this experience. But I think that if we can help them with more context, if we can help them with more on process, that ultimately we're gonna get them much further down the road of becoming an elite goaltender than if we just make excuses for them. And and I don't mean excuses in in the negative sense.

I simply mean give them reasons to feel okay based on numbers. I think if we can give them some real context to evaluate their performance and their progress, it's gonna be much better for them in the long run.

One more on the Stop It Goaltending, idea of game reports for your son or daughter. We don't limit it to just children. Right? If if you are an avid rec leaguer, you can subscribe to that if you if you really want to know where you are. Like, the market's not limited there.

Yeah. If you happen to be like the 19, 20 year old kid that played against me a couple of years ago and at the end of the game came down, shook my hand, and asked me how you played. And when I said I was so exhausted, wasn't watching, he said, that's okay. My dad was tracking it from the bar upstairs. He'll give me a report after.

This is for you.

Awesome. That's awesome. I hope his dad's using game day and not just giving him a save percentage.

I loved

it. Because the wide open looks you get in beer league. Look. One thing game day does is, they ask you at the beginning of the game, what level is this? Is it junior?

Is it college? Is it pro? Is it minor hockey? They don't have a category right now for beer.

Oh, it's pro. That's okay. Or or

rec league, high high caliber rec league.

Brian Daccord and team, I think you need to get out there and figure that out for for Darren and Woody. And I'm What? If you're a goaltender

People will use it in rec leagues.

Yeah. And if you've got a a spouse or a partner who is kind enough to sit there and track it for you, good on you. Otherwise, you could put the GoPro behind you, and then you could track it yourself afterwards. Because that's actually what I do often with goalies I work with is you're just watching the video afterwards. It is sometimes tough, especially when you're just beginning to use game day and understand the system.

It's tough to track it in real time because you have to learn about all those shot types and so on. But after a couple of games, it becomes pretty fluent and pretty quick.

Where would you put the camera? Serious question. On the side or behind? Behind.

I I mean, most of the most of the video I've used it with is not behind, and it's just fine. I don't know that it matters to figure this out. Does it, Woody?

I have no idea. I just instinctively said behind. Because I love that view. I wish we had more of it. We see it on power plays in the broadcast where they sort of have that fish eye from behind above the glass.

I love that view for reading plays and figuring things out.

Do call it?

Fletcher? What is it? Fletcher?

I don't know why. Yeah. Don't know why it's called that. But but if you're gonna put it behind that, it's gotta be higher, and that's tough to do if you're just

don't I think it matters from the the the context of stats, but I think Woody's right. If you wanna see how the play developed in front of you, it's it's a good great way to

Oh, it doesn't matter. Okay.

Behind the net. Yeah.

Fascinating stuff.

Matters as long as you can see what happened.

And if you wanna participate in the in the app, the game reports, the game day app, how do you go about that?

I just go to the App Store, whatever type of device you happen to use. It's on the App Store, but we'll provide a link in the show notes for sure.

I was just gonna say link in show notes. Thank you very much. But one thing to be clear, guys, just so you know, Stop It Goal Tending U the app. If you go under services, that's where you can order a video game like a game day report. But the app that Hutch is talking about for tracking shots, which is called the Stop It Game Day app, is actually a separate app, from this it's not included in Stop It Goaltending U, so we should make that clear.

It's actually a completely separate app.

Okay. So three different things. You've got Stop It You. You've got Stop It's GameDay app, and then you can also get the game reports. Those are all

And the game reports are different things. Under services in the Stop It You. Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

Clear as mud.

That's good, though. When we're explaining it, it that's how it goes.

And it'll be in the in the in the show notes. Let's get into our NHL Sense Arena feature interview. Jake's been kind enough to, stand by, and, this is a fascinating conversation. Can't wait to get into it, as we work with, NHL Sense Arena.

Yeah. And listen. We've just been talking stats. And if you like stats, guys, check out NHL Sense Arena because they've got data in there that you will never get on the ice. You're not gonna get in a game.

You're not gonna get it in a practice. What do I mean? How about your reaction time? You're doing a drill. After the drill, it tells you what your average reaction time was on each shot or how well you track the puck as a percentage.

And believe me, much like I was just talking about with that inner game of tennis book, just having that report after a drill that you track the puck at whatever percentage helps you as you do the drill next, your your tracking is gonna improve. Believe me, I've done it. Just seeing those numbers will help you focus and improve this essential skill. You can see for also how well you fill the net with your stance by specific data, what percentage of the net you're filling. And, of course, it's gonna keep track of your saves and your goals, putting you on a leaderboard in each drill that might even see you bump into your favorite NHL, NCAA, or junior goaltender because it's used by goalies at every level every day to become better.

Oh, and by the way, have a ton of fun while you're doing it. So learn more about NHL Sense Arena at senseArena.com, and don't forget to use that code IGM 50, and you will save even more than whatever great deal they've got on today.

Feature Interview - Jake Allen

Jake Allen.

He was good. He's always good. I feel like there's so many different ways we could tease this. Let's just let's just go right to Jake. Everything from reading the game to his equipment to changing teams, getting used to a new coach, a new playing partner, the evolution of attacks, post play, he touches on all of it.

If you don't get better just by listening to this conversation, you will get better by following the advice he shares specifically on how to approach several of those elements. It is loaded. It is must listen. It is Jake Allen on the InGoal Radio Podcast. Really excited to welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast.

Multiple time guest, Jake Allen, now of the New Jersey Devils. Jake, how are you? I guess, first off, starting a season with a new team, but you got to go is it easier having gotten to get used to the system and personnel, or does a new coach mean it's all new this year from last year?

I mean, I think there's a bit of both. I think it's a mix of both. You know, obviously, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to come in and play some games last year, just get, you know, more of my feet wet with the surroundings, some of the guys, you know, the staff, the rink, all the little stuff that goes into it. And then, obviously, coming back this year with a new goalie partner in Marksy and new coach this year. So we're still you know, that stuff just doesn't happen overnight.

It still takes time, but I think for the most part since beginning of camp and now it's been a good start for us. And definitely feel more comfortable now that I came in last year. And I think that was a big part of the reason for me to accept the trade and, you know, happy where I'm at.

What is the biggest adjustment? Like, you mentioned all the little things that we don't see and getting comfortable, but then when you have a new coach come in and a lot of new personnel too, especially on the back end, is it systems because there are only so many variations, or is it just sort of getting that ability to trust how guys are gonna interact within the system and be able to read off it?

A little bit of both. I mean, obviously, last year when when I came in, they just had Travis Green come in as a interim head coach, and he was implementing his own system. And now, obviously, we have Sheldon coming in this year and him, you know, trying to, you know, make us play the way that we wanna play. But I think the big thing for me is, obviously, as a goalie is more or less understanding your defenseman, how they play, how they don't play. Last year, we didn't have Dougie, and, we have Brett Pesci coming in this year when he's back from injury.

And same thing with Luke Hughes, who I got to play with a bit last year. I think from a defensive standpoint, we have the same defensive coach in Ryan McGill who's great. And for me, it's just simple things of how we wanna play very predictable. And I think I got a taste of that last year and what the obviously, we our results weren't satisfying last year as a team perspective, but for me to come into play just to get an understanding of what the coach wants, what the players want, how we play, the pace we play with, outlets for puck handles, jobs that we need on PKs, things like that. It's always a little bit different.

You know, the games hockey is the same game on the ice and the same sheet at every different arena, but, the way teams want you to play is generally just a little bit different. So I think for me that having that fifteen, sixteen games last year was big. I think it made my factor of coming in this year way more comfortable than coming into a brand new situation, but I I know Marquis come in and adapt really well in this situation so far. So I'm I'm fortunate that I came last year. It was it was sort of part of the reason why I wanted to wanted to have a little start there.

You've been through this before now a couple of times. New voices in terms of a goalie coach. You go from Eric Cremona to Dave Rogalski last year. And then you said, as you mentioned, a new goalie partner. Advice for young goalies who might be going through this right now, whether it's, you know, their minor hockey season starting and all of sudden they have a new voice, junior hockey, a new goalie coach, and a new playing partner.

How how do you go about building those relationships on both fronts?

Yeah. I think I think we just said their relationships is number one. I think you gotta start with that first. The hockey, we all know is at the end of the day what has to be done, and that's why we're here. But I think you gotta start with a relationship first.

I think that's crucial from my standpoint. Obviously, I I knew Rogie from St. Louis, when he was the development coach a little bit. And then coming in last year, you know, we hit it off right away. And, I think that's a big thing for me is relationships. Think especially to get to this point in my career and Markey's career where we're probably one of the oldest tandems in the league and we played a lot of hockey.

I played a lot of good hockey. We played some bad hockey. We've seen a lot of different things. But I think, yeah, it boils down to relationships first for me and then constantly trying to learn. You're you're you gotta constantly try to learn.

You know, we're both 34 years old, but I think what I've figured out right away is from Marky is he's still trying to learn. And that's one thing that I respect about a lot of guys that have longevity in this league is you have to be a constant learner. You have to be adaptable. And I think that's what you can take from all different goalie coaches too. You know?

You're gonna not many guys go through one team their whole career. And if you do, then you're probably a hall of famer. And but I think it's just that that ability to want to learn and that ability to listen. Not everything you're gonna take from a goalie coach or a different player or a different partner is gonna suit your game, but there's no reason not to listen. Think about it.

Does it work for me? Can it benefit me? Can it benefit the group? And if it does, then great. If it doesn't, you know, it doesn't.

It's just the nature of the beast. But I think it's the more you move around, the more players you play with, the more goalie coaches you have, It's not always gonna be roses, but it's about constantly trying to learn and adapt and evolve. And as we know, this game is constantly changing, and you need to change with it or you'll be left behind.

Example, can you share one without giving too much away of something that you maybe tried and, hey. I like it, or, hey. I'll maybe use it here, but not there.

Yeah. There there's a lot of different things. I mean, obviously, I feel like I'm a bit more of a hybrid goalie than Marky is. For example, you know, Marky is very big on a structure. RVH post play, that's why he's had so much success.

And, obviously, it goes back to the Clark days in Vancouver, and, he's integrated that into his game and and and with his size. It's incredible how just watch him practice, how amazing it is. And but at the same time, that always doesn't work for me. So I you know, working with Rogue here, you know, I'm more of you know, Mark, he does his thing. I do what I have to do to make my, you know, ends meet.

And that doesn't mean that you're, you know, a different goalie or a bad goalie. I think it just you gotta believe what works for you works for you and and sort of have that self belief that, you know, it's gonna work. You just don't need to constantly fall into the trap that you have to do this to be a good goalie. You have to do this to be a good goalie. And I think, you know, you look at a guy like Hellebuyck in the league and why he's been so good for so long.

He sticks to his guns. He sticks to his belief of what he's good at, and he knows why he's good. And I think that's why you think, you know, a guy like Mark, he plays the way he does, and I play the way I do. And that's one thing that I really appreciate about Rogie. He really pushes to be your own goalie.

And that's one thing I really believe in, and, you know, I really like him for it.

Your foundations have probably evolved over the years as well. But now as you get to that and you see different ways, what are this like, what are your staples that you've you know, hey. These are my nonnegotiables, so to speak. This is this is the way I play these things. Are there any that you've evolved over the years that maybe weren't even there, say, five years ago, but now you just know with all this experience and time, this is what I need to be doing?

Yeah. I think I think of this year, one thing that I started well, I guess I technically started working with rogue last year on it. It was just slightly a little bit more drift and flow into my game. Obviously, I don't have the size that Marky has, but the speed of the game nowadays, just to have that secondary option, that secondary opinion to get from point a to point b. I think my feet are my biggest asset.

And I think for me, adding that slight little bit of backwards drift at certain moments, it's all reads for me, on when you need it and when you don't, but slowly adding that in just adds another element. I feel like, you you know, in Montreal, got away from a little bit to to add that back into my game where I had the last few years in St. Louis where I thought I played some of my best hockey and feeling really good about it.

Is that just off the rush, Shaker? Like, we've seen increasing. Like, for a long time, everybody had flow and then some guys didn't even off the rush. And now even on, like, a point shot with so much chaos in front of you, we're seeing guys you know, Boston calls it recoil. I think Nashville calls it teeter, and LA's got a different word for it.

But we're seeing this become increasingly a part of goalies games again.

Yeah. No. You're bang on in that for sure. And I think I think you don't even I think it's all reads on rushes for me. You don't constantly have to have flow on every rush play.

I think it's all reads on situational awareness. It's just your hockey sense that goes in and there's certain plays. Yeah. For sure. But you're right in zone.

I think in zone, especially when the puck's on the perimeter are a little bit higher out. You sort of have to understand your surroundings, where your threats, where are the dangers, where the body's at, just to give yourself that second chance. You know? You get flat footed a lot now. It's as we see, you know, I was just even watching the highlights this morning from some of the games last night.

It's a lot of slot line plays even within the hash marks down, which are tough, like, as we all know as goalies that if you're static and stand still, unless you're, you know, playing deep and playing really extremely patient, which is really tough to do when you get some of the shooters in today's age. It's, it's almost a death sentence. But, yeah, you it's all reads and understanding the game in front of you, where your threats are, and trying to integrate that a little bit more.

We hear a lot about the evolution of the game and the evolution of attacks. I I love that you pointed out both things. Like, statistically, analytically, when I look at clear side analytics, like, the last five years, the number of plays across that slot line below the hash marks, that's the biggest increase in scoring in the league. And it's not just off the ones that end up being right to the guy backdoor. It's the ones that hit legs and create broken plays and scrambles.

We also hear a lot about, as you said, the shooter. So you can't just sit sit on it because they can all pick spots. Skating seems to be increasingly important again. Not that it maybe ever went away completely, but we hear a lot about goalie skating. It's a bit of a weird one, but what does goalie skating mean to you, and how, if at all, has the way you practice or work on it evolved in the past, say, five to ten years?

I think I think you are right on that. I think for me, goalie skating is a little bit different. I think it I think it first comes with hockey sense. I think you have to understand the game that's being played in front of you nowadays. I think if you're not following the league, you're following the trend, you're falling out, other teams are playing with d's always driving the back post with you know, I I think that starts off first. You gotta be a hockey player first. I I I have always believed that.

I think I think you are right on that. I think for me, goalie skating is a little bit different. I think it I think it first comes with hockey sense. I think you have to understand the game that's being played in front of you nowadays. I think if you're not following the league, you're following the trend, you're falling out, other teams are playing with d's always driving the back post with you know, I I think that starts off first. You gotta be a hockey player first. I I I have always believed that.

Reads.

Yeah. I I just you gotta understand the game of hockey, and, then goalie skating comes into play. And I think it's just more tools in your toolbox. You gotta be able to play situations differently at all times. You gotta be able to play you know, I I can't speak for every other goalie, but for me, I still use, you know, the VH at certain times.

I'll use overlap at certain times. I'll use, you know, the two grass pad inside post a lot now. I you know, it's I think, for me, that's the way that I see it. It's just more tools in your toolbox, more assets that you have to play the game, to play the game at, you know, different rates, different speeds. And and like you just mentioned, there's there's more variability in this game now than there ever has been.

And I think you're only gonna see it increase throughout the years with, like you said, broken plays, sticks, pucks, bounces. So I think it's just having as much tools in the toolkit as you possibly can. And when you have to break out of your foundation of your game, then you have that ability to do it. And, you know, some guys really stick to their structure, and that's the way they play, and there's nothing wrong with that. And a lot of these guys have tremendous success with it.

But for me, it's having tools in the toolbox and understanding be able to understand the game in front of you and, what gives you success.

Edge work, edge control, the ability to hold your edges all kinda ties into that. I think, like you said, a lot of it is is the ability to process what's going on around you and knowing when you have to give them up. But is there anything you do differently to sort of refine? Like, I remember even back with Dave Alexander in Saint Louis, like, you know, stuff where you're outside of your net and coming back into the net. Like, you were ahead of the curve, it felt like, in terms of some of that skating from the knees work.

Has that evolved? Did you see that evolve as well in terms of how you work on your edges as a goaltender? Is it from the knees skating? Is it on the skates? Is it a little bit of everything?

Yeah. I I I think so. I think you're always trying to learn. And like I mentioned before, and, you know, I think the one thing we've been doing a lot of is working back into the post in different manners for me. So a lot as we all know, the posts are anchors in this game nowadays, and they set up a lot of things, especially on the East West plays.

And I think work for me, like I just mentioned before, I like to have different tools in my toolbox. And working back into the post in VH pad inside the post, overlap, a hybrid, I'm sort of trying to do it all right now. We're trying to find ways even you know, I watch a lot of, you know, Bob and and Shesterkin in the playoffs last year and, you know, even doing a little slight overlaps that they're really off square, but it gives them the proper chance to move, you know, laterally east to west. But when you're off square on a on an overlap play, you're still covering up the net. There's just a lot of different things that you try to take from different circumstances, and, you know, you gotta understand hands.

Hands on the ice for me is a huge thing. Understanding who is the puck, what hand the guy is, where the other threats are, what hands they are. And if you don't know those in front of you, then the game's gonna be a tough a tough boundary for you anyway. But a lot of it's working back into the post right now with a little bit of flow, without flow, shots imminent, threats imminent. So that's a lot of stuff we've doing.

So is that, like, in part just the nature of the game and making sure you're always gonna the way the game's so dynamic, you're never always gonna be in the perfect position, so always having a recovery? Or is there an element of showing guys different looks from some of those dead angles involved in adding all those tools as well? Unpredictability, if you will.

Yeah. You're you're right. Unpredictability is a big thing. And, but at the same time, I think for me, I'm a thinker, so I put it a little bit differently than some of the other goalies that, you know, maybe will just drop into a position because that's what they do. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm a thinker in this game.

I think hands, I think feet, I think position, I think, k, what's gonna be the best chance to keep the puck in front of me in certain situations? You know, that's just the way I play the game. That's what I enjoy doing. It gives me it gives me a great sense of pride with the way I the way that I play that way. But, yeah, so that's sort of the way that I've been thinking about it, and Rogie's been really preaching it.

I think hands, I think feet, I think position, I think, k, what's gonna be the best chance to keep the puck in front of me in certain situations? You know, that's just the way I play the game. That's what I enjoy doing. It gives me it gives me a great sense of pride with the way I the way that I play that way. But, yeah, so that's sort of the way that I've been thinking about it, and Rogie's been really preaching it.

You know, we do a lot of work. We do enough shots now. Like, when shots are coming down the flanks and coming down the wings in practice, that's when you need a lot of your time to work on that stuff. But like we mentioned before, there's so many East West plays and tight, and a lot of that stuff starts around your post. And I think it's just being able to be comfortable around that and be confident in it and then, you know, let you do the rest.

Okay. So you've talked about how much you like to think the game, and and I know how well you do. I'm just dying to, like, hit you up for ProReads again at some point this year. It's been too long. How would you teach it?

Like, if you if you had a young goalie, like, I know still playing, but if you have a young goalie, like, do you think it's just all about reps, or can you learn through video? Is that something young goalie should be doing?

Yeah. Reps, I'd be obviously, reps are very important. I'm not saying that. But I

think get into games as a young goalie. Right? Even in junior, some kids will go on, you know, an entire, like, 16 or 17 year old season, maybe a 10 game.

No. You're right. And experience is crucial. No question. I'll never not say that.

And but every situation is different. I think you're gonna be able to find ways to make those situations the best they can be, and I'm a big proponent of thinking differently. And so thinking differently to me means if you're a young kid, which I've gotten the fortunate to work with a lot of younger kids the last few years, not younger kids, I'd say late teens, guys in the junior, junior a, major junior, things like that. Just sort of picking their brain and let them pick mine. And, you know, simple things.

Like, when you're standing in net, you you go through a video. Okay. What's going through your head in this situation when the rush is starting from the other blue line? What's going through your head? K.

Is there is there what's the forward rush? Is there two lefties and a righties? Is it three righties? Is it is the sentiment a righty? You know, what do you have in the d?

Do you have guys on their strong sides or guys on their off sides? Like, there's just little things that tidbits that I think that's where you can start from. It's not overwhelming. It's very basic. It's it's something that I was taught back in midget to slowly integrate and get my game, and I find it sort of getting passed to the wayside nowadays for just reps, which I think reps are you're gonna get your reps.

I need to all the time now. Guys are on the ice a lot. It's just the nature of the beast in today's world. I just think you gotta find ways to think differently. And I think the next thing I would teach guys is to understand how players shoot pucks, how to know, if a guy's on his in fight inside foot, can he shoot far side?

Where's the puck position in a certain guy's skates? And I do that through video too. I've been doing it myself a little bit the last couple years in Montreal where I would cut games or cut clips from different games, not my own, and I would block the net out. They'd block the net out, and you'd try to read the guy's release. So you'd get the shot.

You'd read the guy's release for 15 to 20 shots from different players, And then you'd go through, and then you'd see if you're right or not, if the puck went in the glove side, low blocker, high blocker, things like that. So it's all about trying to understand, think differently in ways that'll benefit you, but also ways that I think will get you to the next level. It might be a little bit extreme, but I think starting from basic rush reads, end zone reads, there's nothing wrong with doing that through video, especially at a younger age. And, I think it just starts to make your brain think differently, and thinking differently is important.

You still watch a lot of hockey? It's one thing we've heard from a lot of coaches. Maybe you saw it with the young kids you were working with. We just hear that they watch highlights and not the full game, and that's where those if you just see the goal or just see the save, you maybe don't recognize the preparation from the pattern two or three passes earlier that put him in a spot to make it or not make it.

Yeah. No. No. No. You're bang on.

I I watch a ton of hockey, and I love the game. I always will. But I think you're right. I think if if I was working with younger goalies, it's not even about the goal against or the save you made. It's okay.

Let's go through this whole game. What are you thinking in every situation? You're not gonna overkill it, but you cut 20 to 30 clips with in zone plays. And it and it's easy to see from a 200 foot angle above. We all know that from a bird's eye view.

It's it's easier to see and understand what goes on, but you try to put yourself in the goalie's shoes as we all know. And your peripherals sometimes don't extend that far, but it's still about understanding your surroundings. It's sort of knowing, okay. I got my two forwards on my right side. Where's my where's the third forward?

You know? Is the weak side be? You think gonna creep the backdoor? And, you know, I just think once you start teaching kids that get that integrated in their brain, then eventually they're gonna start thinking about themselves. And I think it just starts the process instead of waiting to maybe you're 23, 24, and you get that experience under your belt, and then it starts to kick click.

So I think there's more ways to teach than not, not just through reps.

I love it. I love it. You mentioned watching a lot of hockey. Is there favorites? Any favorites that you can share that you let guys would love to watch?

Or guys that if you if we, you know, the annual Christmas column, guys, it'd be like, if I could take this skill from this guy and put it in my game under the tree for Christmas, I'd this is what I'd pick.

Yeah. I mean, I love watching. I'm a we're all goalie lovers, so there's no there's no goalie that I dislike. To be honest, I respect every single one of them in the NHL, like you wouldn't believe. And, I truly enjoy playing against every single one of them.

But, I mean, if I could have one skill from from one of the goalies, man, it'd be that's I don't know. I I just think Shesterkin's poised on his edges, especially when he's going east to west or or second to none. Know? He doesn't he gets wide, but he doesn't get too wide. He has that ability to stay reactive in that wide stance where sometimes when you get out of that wide stance, you're you're, you know, a fish out of water.

But he's just got that skill set that it's fun to watch. It's fun to play against somebody on the other side, and, you know, I appreciate it.

It's funny. One coach once described him to me for a column as a hovercraft on the ice. The way he moves around even when he's on his knees is that that edge control is unbelievable.

Yeah. Yeah. He's a he's a special human.

Gear. I got a gear question for you. Actually, first off, like, because it happened last night, I gotta throw this one at you. Goalie goals.

We did another one. It's early in the season. This is the first time in the history of the game we've had at least shot into the net, one in three straight years.

Mhmm.

We've got

a chance at two this year for the first time ever. For sure. Are you surprised we don't see more? Why do you think we're seeing or, like, I guess the question would be, why are we seeing more? Are you surprised we don't see even more?

The skill level seems to be so high. What have you seen the evolution of shooting the puck for goalies?

I mean, yeah, last night was incredible. I was happy for you know, to see Gustafson be able to do that. I whenever a goalie can do that, you you gotta tip your cap. And everyone wants to have one at the end of their career, and, obviously, I think I I wanna say, what, 18 maybe or 17? I don't know.

Something like that. So only a few a few got them, but that was a perfect situation too for Gibson. He couldn't ask for a better slap shot from center ice with

Guy shoots it right to you.

With fifteen seconds left up by two. Like, if you don't shoot the puck there, I think oh, man. That's a tough one. But, no. Good for him.

But I think the issue is I just think the game happened so fast now, and you you really need that puck above the goal line. You know, there's not many guys are in super recent memory. Even Ullmark last It was last year. I think Ullmark Two years ago.

He was above. Yeah.

He was above the goal line. So I think that's a big deal. And you remember you go back to watching Marty and, you know, a couple of those guys, they had time to go behind the net and sort of fire it up the middle. And I'm not taking away from anything like that. But just the nature of the beast now when there's a six on five or whatever the six on four to end the game, it is full bore, and it is go, go, go.

And that generally, they're not trying to dump it to the goalie anyway anymore. That that's usually a no no on five on five. Six on five, yeah, they're like they're they're not really they're trying to gain possession with the zone. Today's skill, that's sort of what they want. And if they do dump it, it's you know, they're just on a million miles an hour.

So like I said, I think the best circumstance would be that puck above the goal line and that ability to be square to shoot it down the ice. Because when you're coming around that net, you're still not perfectly square unless you have the time to do it. So, like had last night, that was, that was a dream situation.

Okay. So the so that's why it's harder. That would explain that. Despite that, when when guys do get the opportunity, we're seeing them hit it. Could you imagine doing those shots if you had a wooden stick back in I'm guessing for you, it probably would have been early in your career, maybe even junior.

I'm trying to remember how long since you transitioned into composite. Time's a flat circle for this old guy. Like, is it the sticks? Is it the ability to shoot that when when these opportunities present them as hard as they are, more guys are able to make that shot. Is that fair?

Yeah. It's fair. I actually had a my wood stick was 2018. Last year, I used my 2018. I was using a Sherwood stick, and 2019 was my first year with the with the composite stick.

But I don't know. I found I shot the puck just as good with that Sherwood stick. Okay. For me, like, I I'm only speaking for myself, so I don't think it's the stick. I I just think it's the ability now, obviously, with the technology, everyone if you have the time to lean down on it and get on your one knee and really get under it, you're gonna get some height on it.

You know? Like you said, if you did this fifteen years ago, 2010, even anywhere in the early two thousands, getting that up is hard. You know? The curves the curves aren't the same. Doesn't have the same pop.

Now goalie sticks is their own custom flex. There's a lot of benefits. We're very spoiled. So I think you gotta take, you know, all the guys that did it with a wood stick, appreciate it that much more, but, everyone can fire it nowadays. Yeah.

It doesn't need to be a million miles an hour. It's just gotta be high. It's just gotta be high and accurate. That's all that matters. And, yeah, it's I think everyone has the ability to do it nowadays with the technology.

It's just about situation.

Oh, I was gonna say too, like and and do do you think, like, that ability to hard rim it, like, the ability to launch it like that, does that come from getting behind your net and having those situations where it's like, okay. I don't have an outlet. Every guy needs to be able to throw it up around the glass and get it past that four checker. Like, or do you think it's guys actually the technology and time and practice and having a little fun and and actually trying to make those shots or just a combination of skill and opportunity and technology all rolling together?

Yeah. I think it's everything combined into one. I think you gotta have the skill set. I mean, we all know fired it around the glass. It's a skill, but everyone should be able to do it, especially at this level.

You know? You're it's sort of a dummy. You just fired in the glass, let the glass do the work. Really, you try to get up as high as you can, and hopefully, you don't get a crappy bounce off a stanchion and and let it go. But I think it's just part of the skill of growing with the game and and understanding how to shoot a puck properly and how to get height on it.

It's important. I I was actually talking with Rogie today about, you know, his skill set for a goalie to puck handle. Even just always just fool around doing a lot of offside one timers, doing a lot of one timers, you know, do it shooting a lot of one timers at pucks with tons of spin on it with spin going one way, with spin going another way. There's a lot of different things that you can do. Just fool it around by yourself, post practice, prepractice with your goalie partner without it that when those situations arise, which more often than not, you know, they do in a game, you know, the puck's coming down at you.

You wanna one-time off the wall, but it's spinning a million miles an hour. So you gotta be able to still shoot it. So I think it's just it's a combination of everything and, like I said, that perfect situation that we're all dreaming for.

Alright. So I'm counting on us getting another one this year. Last one on Montreal to go back to because there's a lot of attention on three goalies. Is it like, I know it's not ideal, but I remember talking to Cayden a little bit last year, he found benefits of it, the extra time that he would get with Eric. And, obviously, he had a strong finish to the season.

Can you see any upside in it, or is it just too hard from a day to day basis for when you've got three trying to fit two into a practice? Or even the ability to have a second sheet like you would have in Montreal, but maybe not on the road, is that is that enough to change the answer?

It's not ideal. That's what I'm gonna say. From my perspective, you know Is it enough reps? Yeah. And not enough rep.

Like, there's just a lot of different things, you know, and you know when you're have the ability to be in the lineup every night, but you're not. To that, it's tough. I thought we all handled it extremely well last year. I thought Cayden was great. I love working with him on the side and doing some one on one stuff with him.

But it was the cards that we were dealt. We had to take it for what it was. And, once it unfolded, then unfolded and, you know, Caden had a great finish to the year. I had a great finish to the year, and, you just had to embrace it and understand it is what it is. But in a perfect world, I don't think it's ideal.

Think you're you're not gonna get too many goalies that are gonna probably agree to say, okay. This is gonna be super beneficial. And I think you'll probably get a lot of teams that'll say that, no. This probably isn't super beneficial either. But it's just the situation.

And I but to be honest, you're probably gonna see it more and more in today's game. I I just think with the way the game's going, with the way the salary cap's going, I know it's going up, but that doesn't always mean it's a benefit to goalies. It's a and, obviously, we're seeing more and more injuries probably than ever over the last couple of years with goalies, knock on wood. I I I hate seeing when guys are out because we all understand the position and what it takes. And but I think that's just the nature of the beast sometimes, and that's gonna be the cards that people are dealt with.

And, yeah, that's it.

Any theories on all the injuries? Is it just the the demands physically on the body have never been greater as with the speed in the East West and butterflies not natural for the human body anyways?

Yeah. I don't I mean, again, I'm not a sports science. Barely got through high school. But, you know, but, yeah, I think it all takes a toll, I I think. And as we all know, the game's the position at such a young age, as you know probably better than everyone, it's you know, we're integrating so much so early. And I don't know if that's a benefactor or defactor to longevity. Maybe it gets people places quicker, but ultimately for longevity in place that they wanna go, maybe it's not the best thing. I I really

ticking off miles on that odometer?

Unfortunately, I I sort of think so, but who do oh, who what do I know? I am just, you know, I'm just a goalie right now. I really don't know much else other than that. It's just my my opinion. And it's even one thing that, you know, we talk about here.

I really we work on RVH and and post play and things that are taxing on the hips in proper situations. I never overuse it. I never have. It's not a crazy part of my game, so I don't have to have that need for it twenty four seven where, you know, some guys, it's a huge part of the game, and that's their foundation. That's what they rely on, and I understand that.

But for me, it's it's not constantly in there. It's a big part of it when I need to be, but there's a lot of things that I try to stay away from when I don't need it, if you just wanna put it that way.

Yeah. No. That's fair. For some guys, it's actually become part of crease movement patterns. And so even with a puck going behind the net, they're in it every time, and it's just like, wow.

That's a lot of wear and tear from the outside, but that's how

they play. Yeah. And I and I'm a big I'm a big guy on my feet, so I stay on my feet a lot. I just I just went through my first two games this year. Know, I'd say all the pucks that were below the goal line, unless they're in tight, I I I don't go down.

You know? It's just I'm still a big believer or proponent of staying on my feet and staying on goalies' edges and staying using their feet to their benefit. But that's just the way that I I think and what works for me. And what works for me doesn't work for everyone else. And and I think the game is just there's so much quick twitch movement, which, yeah, we're training for off the ice.

And I know a lot of people have been training their whole lives for that. But still, there's nothing you can train for that's like an actual NHL game or a professional game or a d one game or a q game or whatever it is. Whatever case it is, there's so many things that and then we talked about earlier, variability. A lot of the things we do in practice are restructured. Controlled.

Which restructured and controlled and understanding, you know it might be a hard drill, but you know where your next play is gonna be, which I think that's something that I talked with Dave Alexander of St. Louis about a little bit is how do we make these drills efficient, but also very hard that our brain has to think just as much as our bodies. Because, you know, what it's like is we get out there, it's boom, push 45, middle, drop, slide backdoor. You know the play's going backdoor, but okay. Let's let's make a drill where I know I'm going to my first spot and then I don't know what's happened.

So it's like your body sort of got adjusted to that, then you get into a game situation. And if you don't do any of that stuff, you know, one twitch this way, one twitch that way, I don't know. That's all it really takes nowadays, unfortunately. So

Yeah. Your body's moving in two different directions because of a bang bang play, and you're right that it's it's all it takes.

Yeah. It's just something we don't really practice until the game. And it's a tough thing to implement in practice, but at the same time, there's a lot of that. I had that instant top of me a couple years ago with my hamstring, and, I hate seeing guys do it. And I don't think there's any perfect solution.

It's just everyone's trying to throw their 2 cents into in the goalie world to keep keep us healthy.

Okay. So last one. It's a fun one. Love the setup. It's given me a little bit of Sherwood vibes with the new Brian's pattern you've got on there, the one you had earlier this season.

Walk me through what it's like as a professional goalie to try different gear and your decision process because I kinda always knew you were sticking with that Brian's glove, but you had the true pads and blocker and now back to a full Brian set. Just share for for everyone else what it's like sort of at the pro level, like, companies trying to get you in their gear, trying different things, and and that importance to find something you know, like, you could have been head to toe toe true in Montreal. It's a big market. I don't know if there's, sponsorship opportunities that would have come with that, but you were clearly comfortable in a Brian's club. What what's that process like, and what's led you back to, in this case, now Brian's head to toe?

Yeah. No. You're right. It's we're very fortunate for one. Extremely fortunate.

And, you know, number two, I think you gotta use what works for you. That's the one thing that I've learned over time and was preached early in my career. Just because you want to look good in one brand or someone's obvious some money and you don't feel comfortable, don't do it. And I think that's one nowadays, I don't know if that's always the case. I think you're seeing a lot of guys wear stuff to wear stuff, but I'm more of an old school mind when it comes to equipment anyway.

When I made the change from Vaughn to CCM, sort of upgraded a little bit of new school pad, went with the Brian's, and then obviously CCM went to True, stuck with that same pad. Basically my True pad was essentially an EFlex 2 pad that I used the whole time in Montreal. So it was an older pad, more of your standardized goalie pad, the thicker pad from the bottom to the boot, more fairly tight. That's just the way I see a goalie pad. I see a goalie pad as it's got a bit of girth to it.

It's got a bit a little bit of thickness. I'm not talking about getting my pads waterlogged and I can't move. I want some technology, but at the same time, I still want my pad to feel and look like a goalie pad. And

A little softer, a little more flexible?

Yeah. My pads actually are fairly fairly stiff, but I just I can't get into the really thin pad nowadays that some of the guys are using. It just that's just me as a person, as a goalie. I still wear my stuff fairly tight to my leg. I, you know, I probably don't use the pads as much as they probably could help me.

That's just I've tried it. That's just me as a person, wearing my gear almost the same way my whole life. When I made the switch from True to Brian's, the pads, You know, it was actually it was a late summer switch to Brian's where I was in Bauer for most of the summer trying to almost keep up with the times a little bit. I needed something a little bit lighter, a little bit faster. And I just realized that if I'm not trying every resource I can to get myself to that next level, then what am I doing here?

Have this opportunity. Like I said, we're very fortunate that some of these companies bend over backwards to help us out. Bauer really did that for me. And Brian's obviously with the trapper I was using, reached out and asked that I wanted a sample of pads and got a sample of pads. Was like, Sure, why not?

What do I get to lose here? I wasn't really sure what I needed to do. And as soon as I put them on, I fell in love with them. And they still had that girth in the bottom. They still had that shape of a sort of that old school goalie pad.

When I envision a goalie pad, it's what it looks like. And, you know, they slid great with even with the primal, the primal material on the inside, which I don't use actually. They slid great. I've had to make a few adjustments, but, I jump right into them right away. And, they've been incredible.

The service that Brian's gives me to is second to none. I've never experienced anything like it. They just They take care of your gears done right at your door as fast as you can ever imagine it. It's incredible. But yeah.

And I switched to the Optik 4 blocker trapper this year too. So a little bit of change of the gloves, but, the gear is great.

That's funny. We had Joey Daccord a little while ago, and he stuck with the Brian's blocker after trying it, but he stuck with the true everything else. And he talked about watching he talked about trying things and keeping up with technology. If I'm not evolving and not trying it, what am I doing? He did got it from watching Jake Oettinger in a game they played against each other.

Oettinger just casually steered, like, four pucks over the glass with his blocker, and he's like, I want that pop. I I I get it. Right? Trying to find different things, and yet at the end of the day, it has to feel good too.

Yeah. For sure. No. And I think that's the big thing with my Brian's pads. I I just feel that suit my game.

They're everything I want, everything I need. The service is great. The glove, I think, the best glove in the world. I'm very biased, but I would put it up against any glove out there. And it just it's it all just all reminds me of, you know, when I was starting to be a goalie back in 1995.

That's that's what I thought of as a goalie, and then that was the first glove I ever had was a Brian's Doctor Hook mitt. And, you know, hopefully, I'll finish my career with it too.

I love it. I love it, Jake. Well, speaking of guys that have been good companies that have been good to you, guys that have been good to us, you've always been so kind with your time here at InGoal Magazine. I know our audience appreciates it. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

Thanks again for doing this, on an off day in the season for us. It's it's so appreciated. Like I said, by us and the entire goalie fraternity here at InGoal. Thank you.

No problem. Anytime.

Outro

The record setting Jake Allen. Who's summers on PEI? Just wanna mention that.

He just

the corner from me on PEI.

Just down the road?

Yep. Victoria by the Sea. Jake Allen is the only goaltender to beat 33 different franchises. He's beat all franchises that are currently in existence because, technically, Arizona's still they're just suspended right now or on hiatus, but they're still they still exist. These beat 33 different franchise.

That that's incredible. Now back in the original six, I think people did this more regularly. You had beat every every franchise.

The worst part of that is, Daren?

What's that?

I knew that because David, Mr. Hutchison, forwarded me a tweet about it and then completely forgot to ask Jake about it. So good job, Kev. Heck of an effort.

No. But I I'm not sure what Jake would have said about it.

Yeah. Gonna say, oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Shows I'm old.

Yeah. Don't I don't think you get a badge or anything for it. I just it's neat that he's beat every team. I find it cool that when when a guy scored against him.

Now I have to get a badge done and a hat made up for when he's in town because Daren said, I don't think you get a badge for it.

Badge? Well, we're old enough. Used to get swimming badges when we do it.

Yeah. He's a good Canadian kid. He'd get a badge. We could stitch it onto. He's I'm sure he's got a jean jacket somewhere.

Good New Brunswick guy. Oh, yeah. Canadian tuxedo. Manitoba tuxedo, the jean jacket. You never have a bad conversation with Jake.

Fair. There's so much there.

Well and and the hardest part for me, and I said twenty, twenty five minutes, and I think we went thirty five, and that's me showing restraint. He's so insightful on every aspect of the game that you just wanna keep asking him questions because to your point, you know you're gonna learn something in the answer. Even if it's something where you go somewhere, the question, we all do it, me especially a lot where you're like, yeah, it wasn't a great question. He's gonna find a way to bring you back to a teaching point, a memory that will help somebody else that hasn't experienced that. Like, he just and ProReads are the same way.

Like, if you haven't already, folks, we haven't done ProReads with Jake for a while. I think he was still with the Saint Louis Blues the last time we did a video breakdown with him. But if you haven't, go back and watch him. He talked about it, right, about using video and how that you can get better. Jake Allen's ability to read, anticipate, and think the game is well documented back in those old ProReads.

They may be outdated by uniform and equipment because I think he was still in Vaughn back then, but the opinions, the way he processes things, it's all still relevant, all still can't miss. And it makes me like I said, I think I even said it in the interview as he was talking to Mike, boy, I wish I had a ProReads queued up and had another hour of your time because I would love to do video with you. You learn when you talk to Jake Allen.

You could have You went fishing there. You could have I did. Let me know off the top of the show some of that stuff. Like, wouldn't that hurt you to play a little bit of spoiler off the

top We we had now that you know the answer, Daren, is that all three goals that have been scored in the three straight years were scored from above the goal line. That is one of the keys to getting that opportunity. As Jake explained, man, a hard rim, a hard dump, all the spin on that puck, six players on the ice for the other team coming in hard to try and disrupt the chances of you being able to collect it clean off the wall behind the net and put yourself in a position to launch it over top of them, which is what Pekka Rinne did. He's the last one to do it. But the chances of doing that are so much harder.

It's not a coincidence. I think Jari's was a stretch pass that got tipped to him above the goal line top of the crease. Obviously, we talked about the Gustavsson, the slap shot right to him so he could lay it down flat and launch it. All marks was probably the highest degree of difficulty, and and Nedeljkovic talked to me about that because he had to go he was still out in front of the crease, but he had to go out to the right and then, you know, the old, what what did Mike Smith call it? The eagle cut where he, like, sort of swivels himself around it and gets him into gets himself into position to snap it.

It may have been the toughest of the three, but no coincidence that all three the last three years have come on pucks that were tracked down by the goaltender, stopped by the goaltender, sometimes on a mistake on the entry above the goal line, not having a goal line in that.

Is that what the

that is? That's one of the Yeah.

I I do think it was called an eagle turn by others too, though. I think you're right, Woody.

I thought you were gonna say they were all scored in the third period.

That would have been a brave yeah. Yeah. That would've

Well, Hextall. Remember, Hextall scored from behind the net?

I know. That's gotta be a 100 a 100%. Yeah. He's the guy that's the right he's the guy that started all. We've shared that story.

Marty Brodeur shared that story with us. His dad coming home from a game he didn't attend as the Montreal Canadiens photographer and just telling him about this this goaltender who was like a third defenseman back there, and that's what sparked it for Marty Brodeur, who also went on to score multiple goals in the National Hockey League.

I think his point was right, though, that tactics in the game have changed the point that that's such a harder scenario for that to come up.

Plus you're out of the net. They would If you if you give it away, you gotta scramble back. It's it there's a little more danger factor.

Yeah. Higher degree of breakaway. I got a question based on how good all of the Jake Allen chats have been that just come to mind.

We should publish a book.

could put two no. Well, for sure. If you could take two or three goalies that you've sat down with over the years, who would you like to just put together for a chat about this kind of stuff and sit back and you don't get to say anything, just get to listen to the two of them talk shop. Oh. Doesn't have to be necessary and and and there could be I'm not saying who are the three most interesting guys because it might be, you know, for example, I I thought wouldn't it be interesting to put Joseph Woll down with Jake Allen?

A bit of an age difference there. One's newer, but he really thinks the game super well. They they might have an interesting dynamic.

Well, and then So who Joseph would have been a young goalie growing up in Saint Louis when Jake was the Blues goaltender too.

Also true. Also I have two adds.

Got an answer. Okay. What do you want?

Okay. So so we got Jake Allen. I'll go Ryan Miller. Oh. And Marty Turco.

That'd be a good one. That'd be a good one. I think, like, in any of those is is is worthwhile. Although, I worry about a younger goalie just deferring too much because the stories are so good. Like, as, you know, we've had we had him on for an hour and probably could have done two more hours.

He was so entertaining and, you know, one of the greatest of all time. I I you know, I guys like Jake, wouldn't you love to see him with any opportunity to sort of play our role with a guy like Dominic Hasek.

Mhmm.

To try and pick that brain from a goalie perspective, sort of have all the thoughts that Jake puts into the game and so thoughtful about everything, asking one of, you know, arguably one of the greatest minds because because Dom didn't do it in a way that looked the same. But from a taking away time and space perspective, the thought processes were very much the same. He just did it in a way that looked different from everyone else. And so, yeah, imagine a a a conversation with those three. Imagine imagine Jake Allen leading the conversation with Marty Brodeur and Dominic Hasek.

I I I yeah. I'd pay a lot of money to be in that audience.

Hutch, what do you like to hear?

Well, I mean, I I already mentioned that the idea came from maybe a a young guy like Joseph Woll sitting down with Jake. I would be curious to to hear somebody like Ken Dryden be fit into that. Because the game was so different in his time and yet he is also intelligent and so eloquent in the way he can look at things. His his experience of the game crosses many, many years, so I'd be fascinated to see how he would fit into a conversation.

Another guy would be nice to throw in there.

Yeah. Another

the equipment.

Mhmm. Modern guy?

Well, I think I think it might be a subject specific thing. Right? I mean, can't we imagine that puck handling round table, that gear round table? Oh, boy. This is this is like the dream conference.

Yeah. We're putting together the ultimate goalie conference. Another guy that I don't think you know, we talk about Joseph Woll because he's so thoughtful and insightful like Jake. Another guy that's kind of in in between the two generationally that we don't hear as much from anymore. It's in my market, but think back to his first appearance on the InGoal Radio Podcast and how, like, just superb and open and the dialogue that that that the ideas that were shared when Thatcher Demko first came into the league.

Like, he was that's one of my favorite in it. We're, what, 276 episodes in. It still remains one of my favorite interviews. So anybody that sort of thinks like that, it it was, yeah. It probably was in the single digits, but anybody that thinks the game like that.

Right? There's so many of them. Connor Hellebuyck. That's what I love about it. Eric Comrie, by the way.

Congratulations to Eric Comrie on on landing the number two job in Winnipeg. And, boys, our waiver count went up as we wrap things up this week. We were doing a ding ding for each of the waiver claims. Calgary kicking someone to waivers to the Colorado Avalanche after James Reimer had a nice showing against your Vegas Golden Knights the other night, Daren. So the waiver wire guys are, getting themselves into opportunities where they can, maybe get more opportunity than they were going to get where they were.

Reims was really good.

He was.

I was impressed. He looked like he was winded at times because they're just under siege, and he just bounces up. He's he's always so cool and happy and positive.

Love us some James Reimer.

Didn't didn't win the game, but he just played outstanding in that one. Thanks to our good friend for stopping by Cam over at the Hockey Shop. He continually gets it done with us despite taking abuse from you, Woody.

You gotta just gotta keep him in check. That's all I'm doing.

Jake Allen for being so generous with his time and, and Hutch for turning that frown upside down. You were crappy. You were confrontational at the start. Hanging around Woody too much. Just trying

to be entertained.

I have that effect on people.

InGoal Radio Podcast turns into sports talk radio. I'm gonna give you the big take and the artificial take. We'll talk to you next week as we come to you from all corners of the goalie world.