InGoal Radio Episode 277 with Kristen Campbell

Intro

We're back with you. We can't wait to get into this episode of InGoal Radio Podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. Loving what we've got lined up up for you today, including the cofounders of InGoal Magazine, David Hutchison and Kevin Woodley. A gentleman, talk to me. Give me the latest on what's been going on with your lives.

Hockey? Hockey. Watching hockey.

Hockey. Watching hockey.

Alright. Good. Yep. Good update. Massive update.

Brilliant. You you guys should do analysis in the booth in the National Hockey League. We've got our great features set to to come your way. The NHL Sense Arena feature interview. My friend from Brandon, Manitoba, Kristen Campbell, is going to join us.

Well, you said she because she's from Brandon, we keep running into the Brandon goalie mafia. You said just because she's from Brandon, she's naturally good. But I gotta say

She doesn't even have to try.

But when it comes to try, she puts in the work. And we've had, yeah, we've had a chance to see that work. So this is a great interview because she digs into how that's evolved over the years on the ice, off the ice, like every aspect of the game. She's one of those no stone unturned, grind away, find ways to get better in every aspect, and she digs into all of them for us. It was a fantastic interview.

Did you ask her if she looked up to me when she was growing up?

I did not, Daren. I left I you know what? That is

a Another piece left on the table.

Yep. That's a sad omission by me.

Wow. The Stop It Goaltending U the app parent segment, you're gonna branch into a new category today.

Yeah. Another one that we could probably go down to for several episodes, but, we've had a few parents write in asking about how to support their goaltender's confidence. And then I saw something on Hockey Night in Canada last night, piqued my interest in this so that I could talk to you about what I'm going to today. I'll just leave it at that and find out why Kevin Bieksa helps goaltenders.

Wow. That that's got my attention on so many different levels. So sorry, Kev. The Hockey Shop Gear Segment, will focus on the kids line from Vaughn, and I can't wait to hear what's going on over at the Hockey Shop with Kevin and Cam. That's always exciting.

I had a question, though. I saw a name pop up in my feed the other day.

Doug Melvin. Do you think Doug uses NHL Sense Arena? Because it's it's helping so many different people right now off the ice, off season, in season, middle of the schedule. There's so many different ways to use NHL Sense Arena.

Well, there sure are. And, if anybody could use it, it's Doug Melvin. He would be a great spokesperson for Sense Arena, Daren. We'll maybe talk a little bit later about why that is and what's so impressive about Doug. We'll tease that one.

But as to NHL Sense Arena, I would actually tie it back to what I'm going to discuss today in the parent segment because we're going be talking about confidence and I think NHL Sensorina is another incredible tool for improving your confidence. First off, you're gonna know that you're doing more than the next goalie. You'll have that confidence that you're working as hard as you can with this great tool. You're taking time to improve your game. But also, it lets you do things like dial in the shot speed.

So maybe you wanna pull it back a little bit so that you can reinforce some key movements and you can get the feeling of success or maybe you wanna do the opposite and dial it up to NHL speed so that you know when you step back on ice with your own team, the pucks are gonna feel a whole lot slower and be easier to track. And there's even a trophy room that you can see all your accomplishments in. Just that constant reminder that you've been putting the work in that you need to. Great thing for confidence. Have you had a tough game?

Go on home, put on Sense Arena, just go have some fun. You get to go on an outdoor rink, you can go in an NHL rink, you can try out one of their regular contests, Or you can just choose a drill you like and play. Just go have fun because remember, as great a tool as Sense Arena is for making you a better goaltender, it's a whole lot of fun. And as much as we want to improve as goaltenders, we're out here because it's fun. So give it a go.

Sensearena.com. If you spend just five minutes a day, guys, that's thirty hours of extra practice in a year, and you get to have a whole lot of fun while you do it. Sense Arena.com. Don't forget to use the code I g m 50 and you will save even more.

Here's a theoretical question for you. Which would you like better or lean into in practice? Slow and methodical so you can focus on your structure and your confidence or fast and chaotic above your level, which would mean that the game would translate to feeling at half speed or slower. Oh. Just coming the the idea

the Daren's trying to tease the the feature interview here. Mhmm. Because Kristen Campbell gets into that. The two different parts of her training. And I would suggest, Daren, that you need to have both.

And she would suggest, as you'll hear her suggest, that you need to have both and train both with very different mindsets as you go into each each different type of training.

Where were you, Hutch?

I could tell you the one that was impactful for me growing up, Daren, was when I got the opportunity to go and spend a season way above my level. And, but I kept playing with my regular team. So it was sort of like an an AP situation that a lot of kids go through. And because this was so far above my level, everything just seemed so easy when I got back to my team. And that was impactful and I felt like I had already spent a lot of time with some goalie coaches, so I felt pretty good about my actual skill level.

But but again, I I guess it really does depend where you are as an individual because if you don't have that base technical game, then going to over speed training, I'm not sure how much that's going to help you. You have to have that foundation, I would think. But yeah, they they both have their place for sure.

I would naturally lean towards fast and chaotic, which is gonna make things feel calmer and more comfortable at your at your own level, but that's just me. Now, Doug Melvin.

But what's your experience, Daren? Before we get to Doug, what's your experience? I mean, I know the Vegas Golden Knights would not count as chaotic, but it's a heck of a lot faster than when you get back to your recreational hockey. What's that experience like when you go from one to the other?

I probably make stops on on plays that I would normally be challenged to make, and I'm just talking about just direct on shots or or a slide across. I I'm able to react better in in my own competition after practicing with the guys.

Does it ever feel like a knuckleball?

No. No. But I'm I'm just there in time, and it feels like it should feel. But I know for a fact that I wouldn't make that glove save because my glove hand is terrible. But I would I'm able to to come up with saves after having a few practices in a row or skates in a row.

And to have any of you experienced it the other way where when you play at a higher level and then you go to a lower level, you struggle because guys aren't where they're like, Reads and guys not being where they're supposed to be, and it's a little more chaotic and guys clearly trying to shoot high glove and muffing it between your legs and things like that.

No. That's the part.

That that drives me nuts.

Straight on shots straight on shots are more difficult than I had a a coach tell me one time, a goalie coach, because I was explaining that to them. And they said, well, those guys don't know where it's going. So how are you supposed to stop it if they don't know where it's going? You can't anticipate where that puck's gonna end up. And there's some truth to that.

Absolutely. I used to drive me nuts. I would have a decent week at my skates that are over my head and then go play low level beer week with my friends and really struggle. And I'm like, no. Honestly, I was okay this week.

Like, I was I was good against better players. What's going on? I'm losing am I losing my mind? Oh, frustrating.

Can you imagine what the goaltending is like in Doug Melvin's weekly skate up in Boise, Idaho? How frustrated his buddies are? Because Doug Melvin was an e bug this past week in the ECHL. And for the Toledo Walleye, by the way, the interesting part about Doug is he's 61. Incredible.

And he was an E bug in the ECHL. If that and he was for the for the visiting team, they had very few options and they need somebody on the bench. Here's the great part is Doug was an E bug a year ago for the hometown Idaho Steelheads in Boise. So the it it wasn't just like he was falling into this and was the only guy in the rink. He's been an e bug a couple of times at 61.

So, Doug, I don't know whether you're Sense Arena or not. I don't know whether your game feels incredible after you practice with the ECHL guys, but big stick tap to you.

So you're saying we all still have a chance?

Yes. He's my new Hero. Doug Melvin is my sent new hero.

That post to a couple of people inside the organization saying, I'm a kid.

Put me

in coach. Let's hope Doug keeps getting a few more opportunities so that he can actually get into one of these games because it's gonna happen someday.

I just hey, at 61, if I'm playing, my life is good.

And there is just that. I can kudos to anybody who's playing the game at all at that age because we know it's tough.

Seriously, 61 in E Bug in professional hockey.

Good on you. It's incredible.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I'd to get Doug to tell us how things are when he goes back to his beer league team.

Put in the request.

I was just gonna say, should we get the guy on?

That would be fun. Let's do it. Doug, reach out.

What was Doug's first set of gear?

Yeah. He's a yeah. He's even older than us. You know it was brown.

Yes. You know

it was brown and it was probably a fiberglass mask.

If there was a mask.

If there was. Fair. Because I was just on the edge of being able to play without. Right.

Yeah. I'm I'm not being,

snarky. I know. It's entirely possible.

Maybe Doug's like me. Maybe he didn't come to the game till his middle ages.

Doug Melvin. Maybe that's why he can do

it at 61, Woody. You start at 59.

That's what it takes to have hips and still work at a goaltending environment.

I have a feeling that's not the case, Woody. You're a

rare player. See video of Doug. I wanna see footage. I'm I'm so Doug, am so incredibly impressed by what you do 61, and you're obviously still at a level that can compete with with professional hockey players. I I wanna know more about your story, man, because this is this is inspiring.

I'm I'm really proud of you. I'm speaking straight to Doug there. Sorry, guys. To to exclude you. I shouldn't do that.

Kinda mean to me.

It's okay. We echo everything you're saying, and we really hope we get a note to info@InGoalmag.com this week.

Please, contact 61 year old Doug Melvin.

I'm on this. I'm searching. I'm finding. I'm I'm I'm on this.

Kevin's, we've lost Woody already. He's down the rabbit hole.

He's gonna put us all to shame because the first story I found said, with a head of silver hair and a physique a la Jacques Lalanne. So he's yeah. We're in trouble. There's a reason this guy's still playing in his sixties.

From loving the game to getting back to your game, the Pittsburgh Penguins have three goaltenders right now that are up at the National Hockey League, and they made the it's still unusual, but it's happened a couple of times in the past few seasons where they took a goaltender off the NHL roster and decided to try to dial in this game in a one on one level. Now it's progressed from that. But what do you think of taking Tristan Jarry off the road trip, sending him back to Pittsburgh to work one on one with the with the goaltending?

I don't have a problem with it. I'd love to know what he thinks. You know what I mean? Like, it's one thing for us to opine on it if he's okay with it, and he accepted a conditioning stint to Wilkes Barre. So in theory, he has to approve that.

You can't just send a guy on a conditioning assignment. They they have to agree to it. I was told, that he had a really good summer. And there's been a lot of stories about the work he put in this summer, both physically and on the ice. The reality of the start for the Penguins, like, it got off the rails in a hurry for them as a team.

I know his numbers are terrible. I think he's got an eight thirty six save percentage. When I look at clear side analytics, his expected save percentage, so in other words, what the average NHL goalie is expected to stop based on the quality of shots faced is actually eight thirty two. Like

So he's outperforming.

Unbelievable how bad the defensive environment is in Pittsburgh this year. When I look them up as a team, their profile, and it's early, but they're 10 games in now. The worst defensive team in hockey by a massive margin when it comes to giving up the most dangerous types of chances. And I don't it's not just one area off the rush in zone defensive coverage, five on five. The only thing they do decently is their PK, which is ironic.

Everything else is bad. I looked at their last few games. I covered their game last night. I actually thought Alex Nedeljkovic game looked really good last night. And he gives up four in a six minute span, including three and sixty five seconds.

And I look at the underlying numbers, and they've given up 12 high danger chances, and he actually outperformed his environment. Should have been four and a half goals last night. The night before, 50 shots and 14 high danger against the Edmonton Oilers. Joel Blomqvist kept them in for a while in that one. The Winnipeg Jets game, 2 games before that, 12 high danger against.

Like, when you're in double digits high danger in the worst defensive team in hockey, we can talk about whether this is the right thing for Tristan Jarry, and I don't think he's that far off with his game. I'll be honest. I don't think he's that far off.

Now he had the one tough outing where he was taken out early, and and that will Skew you. Blow up all the numbers. Yeah.

Yeah. But at the end of the day

Big time in a small

the numbers when the chances are like that, at the end of the day, this ain't about goaltending. Right? And Blomqvist is outperforming his environment by a significant margin. That kid's been really good. And and side note, after starting stopping 46 to 50 in Edmonton, I watched him skate the next day here in Vancouver.

He's out there for an hour with Andy Chiodo, and he's good. And he also grinds and works hard. See see the work he put in the next day was impressive. I I just don't know that this is a goaltending story. This is a team that that just gives up they give up freebies.

Sidney Crosby said it last night to work so hard and then just give up free like, they just hand teams goals in spurts, and then the game game gets out of control.

Least the organization's being proactive from the outside. I know you guys got some more inside information on both the statistics and and how things are handled within within the rooms, but just Okay. From 30,000 feet?

I don't mind. They're taking a step. Okay. And then I said I said I don't mind it. I'd curious to hear your thing.

For all this focus, I could think of a couple of defensemen on that team that might need a a reset and a trip a trip to Wilkes Barre, and I guarantee you they ain't accepting the conditioning assignment.

Toronto last year put Ilya Samsonov off in the American Hockey. Now he didn't play. He just worked with a goaltending coach and got the the physical side, the mental side back on track, ended up playing game seven of of the first round series for for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Have you had a chance to talk to him about that experience? Just on the periphery.

Just on the periphery.

Because that again, I'd be

the pressure of Toronto and and riding that wave, it's it's been alluded to a couple of times, but I haven't been able to sit down and do a deep dive

on it. The ability to reset, like, I I'm not against that. And Jarry's situation in Pittsburgh is probably as pressure packed as what Samsonov felt in Toronto. It may not be quite the same level of hockey market, but he is very much in the spotlight there Yeah. After a couple of up and down seasons.

And obviously, last year didn't go the way he wanted. So I'll I'll give him that. Like, when that snowball starts rolling downhill in the wrong way and and getting bigger and bigger, the ability to sort of just stop it and start from square one. Like I said, I don't think his game is that far off at all. But maybe just the ability to sort of reset mentally and start over, maybe that makes a huge difference.

Because I I don't I don't think he's that far off.

And you have three goalies.

So You do. It's great that they can do this. I think even if you accept what Woody says that he's at expected or even slightly above in terms of his game this year, you can't underestimate the mental grind of having those difficult results even if the numbers back up your performance. And you can't underestimate the mental grind of knowing what other people in your organization are probably assuming about those results. Again, so many people in hockey don't rely on those advanced statistics.

So that is going to be a grind and I think the opportunity to step away and and get a bit of a break is probably a really good thing. Sort of two other points I would reinforce though, wouldn't it be incredible if they could do exactly what Woody said and grab a couple of defensemen and say, you actually need to go work on your game because a, that would help the team and b, it would reinforce for their goaltenders and the rest of the organization that there really are other things at play here. So I think that I'd love what Woody said about that. The other one is they were possibly, I have no inside knowledge of this, getting Tristan Jarry out of a difficult media situation on this trip when they moved him because he played in Edmonton with the Oil Kings in junior hockey, winning a Memorial Cup, I believe. And he is from Vancouver in the Vancouver area.

So I'm sure he dreamt of coming in and getting to play in both those places, but getting him away from having to answer those questions about being a healthy scratch in those two places is probably probably a

good I guess, and again, it depends how he does he see being taken off a road trip ahead of those two places as punishment? Because maybe there's family and friends to catch up, or does he view it as a reprieve? And that's the question

I bet you that's

the question that we don't you know, we just don't know the answer to as individuals. Listen. The organization's trying to help him. I I I get it. I I guess from where I look at it like that.

There he his teammates could do a little better job helping him out when he's actually in the net. And then and again, I don't know what's going on there. I only got I got a first hand glimpse at it last night, both in the room and on the ice. They are just bleeding high danger chances, in buckets, in bunches, in short spurts of the game. Very not like a typical Mike Sullivan coach team.

And until that changes, you know, I I don't know. A lot of people are gonna look at the goaltending, but I don't know that anything gets better until that changes. Ned said like Ned said last night to the media, I liked my game. And like I said, watching it, I liked his game too. He made a number of difficult saves.

But when you're into the mid teens and high danger chances against on a nightly basis, eventually, the dam burst. Even with Blomqvist the night before. Right? He kept it zero zero for so long. But if they pile up like that, eventually, start going in.

It's a little bit like, you know, they talk about you you can't change the team, so you change the coach. When when teams are struggling, you you make a change even though that's not necessarily where the problem is. I think the second tier of that is a lot of hockey teams. You can't change the team, so you change the goaltender and just maybe it's not his fault, but we still need somebody who can perform in the environment that we are left with. The contrast with Lundqvist playing so well probably is not helping the the pressure on him either because they can kind of say, well, we have a guy here who can perform at the level.

Well, here I'll

But, of course, even with 50 shots, he can't. Right? They if they're not gonna score a goal, doesn't matter how well plays.

I'm just talking about

Blomqvist.

A 100%. Blomqvist is top 15 in adjusted save percentage right now, but his expected so far, even after the Edmonton game, is eight seventy six. Ned's is down to eight sixty three. So even on the same team, the environment can be very different. And we're talking about a tiny sample size, and I just think Jari has gotten the worst of that sample size.

You know what this reminds me of? In a much smaller window, this is Eric, Comrie, and Buffalo in a much bigger window. Eric, Comrie, and Buffalo had an eight fifty eight expected save percentage last year, which is the lowest I've ever seen over the course of a season. And everyone was all over them, and nobody would take them on waivers. Winnipeg resigns them, brings them back.

He beats out Kaapo Kahkonen and another free agent signing for the backup job, and he's now two and o with the jets and posting some very respectable adjusted numbers. So, environment matters. Right? We know it as goalies intuitively. And when you have tools that can measure it, you kinda it gives you a glimpse into what the goalie is really doing.

You know, I'll give you one more example. We're just pumping tires on ClearSight right now. How about Kevin Lankinen in here in Vancouver and the job he's done? He's now he's now one four in a row. His adjusted save percentage has come down in the last two starts a little bit, but it's normalized to where it has been for the last couple of seasons.

Still top 20 in the league. He was twelfth last season. It blows me away that the numbers could paint the picture of what was gonna happen there pretty clearly and that I have examples from each of the previous two seasons where it was easy you know, again, for statistically to say this guy's ready to pop, and they did, how are more teams not using this? Like, how? How are you missing on guy how is Vancouver getting a guy in September for $875 that the numbers I have over the last three seasons say is better than a whole bunch of guys that signed right away on July 1 as backups.

Like, it's that that one

Without going without going down a rabbit hole, Woody, on in terms of the exact service, do the numbers from some of the more publicly available advanced statistics back up the same story that ClearSight did?

They don't

Some of those

Not to the same degree. No. And this is where they miss. They this is where they miss. And I've seen some of those numbers.

And I gotta be careful here because clearly, I'm biased towards ClearSight. But I'm gonna tell a little story, and I won't name the name of the company. But a lot of them, there's an automation process in how they measure events. So I'm not talking about the analysis of the statistics. I'm not talking about the fancy math they do with with the events and how they measure them.

I'm talking about just specifically measuring Raw data. What happened on the ice. And I had a goalie coach that requested his analytics team take a look at what actually happened in the game and what their analytics company said happened in the game. And it came back in the mid seventies in terms of accuracy, mid 70% range. We're talking about a c plus in high school and most of the league is basing their decisions on data that would get you a c plus in high school.

Drives me nuts. What? Whoo. Woody rant.

I had another example, Daren, recently and and again, I won't name a company either, but, was sent a breakdown of a game and it included, what were labeled as four inaccurate passes by the goaltender. And I went and looked at those apparent four inaccurate passes and three of them were him merely covering the puck at the side of the net. There wasn't even use of the stick involved. The other one was poking the puck into the corner, which was wasn't even an attempted pass. So the automation with some of these services can leave something to be desired.

Now, I have gone into other times and it's worked just fine. So I'm not suggesting it's all complete garbage, but there are some clear errors there. So we do have to be careful as I think you brought up that question before, Daren, when you asked, is it if it's all the numbers that you have to work with, is is it still better than nothing? And I would argue that possibly no.

Garbage in, garbage out, boys.

But different cars. You you go shopping for a new vehicle, You're gonna get a great deal over here, but it may not be worth six months on the road. You may pay more over here, and it's gonna last you forever. And there might be some place in between, and there might be examples of the opposite. You gotta do your research and you you gotta be careful of where you're putting your cash.

Well, when I look at what are the average goaltending salary is and compare what it costs to have this service, I don't understand why teams don't just add it into what they're doing. Because on goal tending alone, I can I can find I'm not gonna name examples, but I can find three or four examples where a team spends $5,000,000 on a guy and it would have been two pushes of a button to tell you don't do that and it didn't work out? And I could have told you it wasn't gonna work out. So what's that worth?

And it's also if you're not using automation, it's in the eyes of the viewer who's who's logging the information. And some people just see things a little bit differently. There's there's going to be differences in various

You have to that's why you create a system where there isn't what's a one timer and what's not. What's a what's a slot line pass that goes across the middle and is immediately shot on the other side. Things like frame rate. Is there three frames? Once there's four, it's no longer a slot line path.

Things like that. So, lines on the ice, whether it's a shot on goal, like using the video and break it, and that takes time. And that takes a lot of work. And that's why it costs a lot, a little more well, I don't know how much a lot, a little. It costs more money to have that because of the degree of measurement used to try and make sure it's as accurate as possible.

Listen, I got the other thing too is screens. Like, some of the automated stuff just doesn't measure screens and it's like screen chances are as high as 40%. There are some screen opportunities in a game that have a higher chance of going in if you hit the right spot of the net than a breakaway.

Didn't have to worry about that in Doug's age in his era. Doug Melvin.

I I I did I've been doing reading as I've been ranting. Boys, I've been ranting and reading. Doug is a Doug is they call him the challenger, or they used to call him the challenger. So he's old school. He's out there two pads straight up, 20 feet out of the net, making sure he's on those angles.

That's what I that's what I read from about three, four years ago. Maybe he's modernized, but I cannot wait to find more about Doug Melvin. We love you. We love that you're still playing at 61. You are our hero at InGoal Magazine.

And one final thought on Tristan Jarry, they called three p's. It's, they're being proactive. The Pittsburgh Penguins, they're being progressive, but it's how you present it to Tristan Jarry. There you go. I like it.

Gear

So that's that's where you go. And it's all gotta mesh together with Tristan. Over the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, the hockeyshop.com, we've got our Gear Segment. What are you guys focused on this week? And give me an idea of of what's happening over with the fellas approaching Halloween.

Well, we're gonna get into the Vaughn line for kids. So junior and intermediate lines. There's a couple of different options. I gotta say, when it's time to shop for your kids, whether they're just getting to the point where the association gear doesn't work or they're getting more serious at a at a younger age, there's a bunch of different categories, youth, junior, intermediate, and a whole bunch of different options. And they range widely from gear that is won't look or feel quite exactly like NHL or high level stuff, but it's designed just ergonomically for the kids to get on and off quickly to make sure it seals and and and lays flat on the ice and allows them to sort of have a nice easy balanced butterfly to stuff that looks like it is the same as the pros are wearing.

And the Vaughn line tilts a little more towards that side and interestingly enough, without a lot of extra cost. So my message here, in addition to listening to this, if you're a parent, want to turn this into the parent segment, sorry, Hutch, but if you're a parent with a young goalie, watch these segments. And we've got a few more coming up after this one. This is the two of four right now. But make sure you check them out at the hockey shop and the hockeyshop.com.

If you've got questions, give them a call. If you're not lucky enough to live here in the Lower Mainland and be able to go in person. Because the staff there will be able to help you find the stuff that works for your kid. There is such a wide discrepancy. I've been there with Cam when he's working with the kids.

They're not just trying to sell you the most expensive. They're trying to find you gear that's gonna work. I say this all the time about adults and intermediate and youth goalies, junior goalies. They're there to make sure they find gear that works for your game. The same applies for your kids, and they've got an entire staff that all play the position.

They've been doing this for years, and they understand how to find those lines to make sure when you do make that step, when you do make that purchase and make your goalie full time and buy them their own gear, they're gonna have equipment that works for them. So make sure you check them out at the hockeyshop.com or in person at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley before and after you check out our latest gear segment on the Vaughn Kids line. Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. We're InGoal Utopia. We were we're sticking with the theme that we've been doing of late.

Itty bitty pads. These ones look like pro level pads that had just been, honey, I shrunk the gear.

Honey, I shrunk

the gear. Vaughn line with Cam. Yes. A lot of pro level features shrunk down to youth level sizes. Cam?

Junior?

Junior. I I always say youth because I think that's

There is some crossover here because I'm actually holding a 24 inch junior pad.

There we go. So for those of us that remember my cousin Vinny, the utes. We're gonna talk about the utes. Nobody knows what I'm talking about.

It's a stretch. Alright. Let's talk about the V 10 junior pad. I really like this pad in the junior category. There's a lot of specs and features that are being brought down from kit sizing, senior sizing, even the pro carbon level pad that we're finding onto this junior pad as well.

So looking in on opening up the pad itself, first of all,

Primo. Well, they don't call it Primo. It's Primo. Quick slide. Quick slide. Sorry.

But it's it's Primo. It's Primo. Knee cradle, Vaughn's version of their kind of integrated style as well. They just call it their balance stabilizer. That said, we do have a great degree level of stability.

I'd put it on par with, like, say, CCM. You're gonna get

It's not floppy.

No. And that's the big point here that we're trying to make. Again, whereas you're dropping down into that butterfly, we need that stable surface to help that pad seal. You get a good overall pivot point on that pad that also helps with slidability. Numerous, numerous, numerous things.

Yes. We're now looking at the level of adjustability of that pad. You wanna get rid of that knee flap because you're taking your strap down behind your calf. That's easy. That just Velcro's out.

There's also levels of replaceability to the pad as well depending on if, say, these are secondhand to you and stuff like that and the cradles beat up, know, that can be replaced. Moving on to the actual strapping of the pad itself. Their rotation strap, easily removable if you don't like it. However, great, nice feature. Slightly adjustable in terms of for putting it slightly up, slightly down.

Air and It style on the pad itself, keeping that pad nice and lightweight, but also breathable.

It's it's a very rich feeling pad for a youth size.

Yeah. Having that quick slide especially, like, all over the place in certain callouts, it gives that that rich overall feel wise, but also that added durability especially with having that full quick slide boot.

Let's talk about the toe ties. How's that helping a kid?

So the toe ties are good. If I need to be replaced with something else

Like skate lace.

Like skate lace and or a different bungee system. So they do clip together nice and easy. They're easily adjustable. However, folks, we'll be honest, there is some better options. They'll credit where the credit is due for the all around of the pad.

The bungee system, I think it's worth switching up to.

But it is easy to do up for

Correct. Correct.

I'm focusing on the positives here, Cam.

Yes. We've covered the pad.

Blocker glove?

Yeah. Nice, easy, thin style of a blocker. Kinda continuing on with their velocity styles itself. Very easily balanced. Very easy to close glove.

Again degree style closure, which is gonna equate closer to, that 600.

600 break. First baseman's mitt.

Correct. Nice wide open pocket. Out there. Exactly. Exactly.

Closes like butter. Like, that's

Again, we're talking about a junior line, and we're talking about a junior line that's very competitively priced as well with everything else that we find up on the wall too as well.

Okay. So we ripped through the V 10. There's a ton of great features there. The difference between it and the SLR 4 line.

So let's talk about the pad right off the bat and it is going be a straighter pad. Stiffer. Going to be a stiffer style of pad. We're still going to have that quick slide along the side surface of the pad as well. So we're getting again a lot of those similar features.

Same balance stabilizer knee. Similar strapping in the back but then we start to see some of the differences kind of between the two in terms of how they strap up itself. Their rotation control strap is separated into two. They're getting a little bit more of that form fitting kind of around that calf. Still those same bungee toe ties.

Once again, replaceable and swappable. K. The one thing I do find about this pad, even fitting it between say a V 10 to this, because it is a stiffer sturdier pad, that taller thigh tends to rear its head especially. So I will find an equivalent sizing. The knee may be in the same position.

However, this thigh fits a lot taller. It has the plus two. It's kinda like a plus three. Keep that in mind as you're shopping.

If your goalie is not strong enough to sort of hold that pad in place, the tops of those pads can hit as they're moving around, as they're dropping into the butterfly and instead of getting a nice tight seal, as the top of the pads hit when they're that stiff, if the goalie doesn't have the strength to hold it, it will sort of push the legs apart, and they'll lose some of that control. So as Cam said, very much keep that in mind when you're sizing it. And, of course, if you have size questions, you can always ask them of Cam and his crew here at The Hockey Shop. Real quick, SLR four blocker junior.

Again, thin style blocker. Very, very lightweight. I think this is even lighter than the v 10.

And the glove. Brakes different.

Yes. 590 style brake, 60 degree closure, very common that we see kind of on the wall. Very snappy closure. Nice thin tee as well so it helps to get it out of the way, but also still nice deep pocket.

I gotta say this is when we're looking through all the different sort of junior, youth, intermediate lines, this one feels the most like pro so far, and it is still competitively priced. Curious, like all the extra strapping, all the especially it down to these sizes, like, can this be too much or is this for a goalie who's down at that age and is really dialed into these things already?

So there's the golden question and it's always kind of hard to say sight unseen. I will say especially with something like this and even into that SLR pad, say the child's played for a little bit longer, they've had a chance to kind of go through some of the lines, you're looking for something at a little bit more of a premium, say, hey, I want this to perform at its best. Yes, definitely worth a look. I won't be going out of my way to recommend this as a first time for sure because I think there are other things that might suit, you know, the child a little bit better. But that said, you know, it's playing a little bit of a higher level.

Kid hasn't quite caught up to the growth versus some of the other kids. Not quite ready for intermediate yet. Hey. Here's some great options to still have that elite level performing gear.

I think that twenty four plus two looks good on you, Cam. It might be about the right size. Perfect. And I think we can say you've

I I always wondered a new set of water rings. So if you have any call questions, give us a call here. (604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790. Whether or not this is the right pad for your kit, wanna know about sizing, you wanna know about glove brakes. We're all knowledgeable.

We can all help you out.

Good job. You said it.

Okay. Good. Alright. Thanks, Kevin. Bye, Cam.

Great stuff there and if people wanna see, like put eyes to what you're talking about, check out the YouTube page.

YouTube, Instagram, we'll have it all up there this week. YouTube is where it goes up first. So, yeah, make sure you check it out. And then again, YouTube's a great place. You can find the resources, all the recent reviews we've done, including last week's with the Brian's kids line.

We'll have CCM and Bauer coming up in in the next few weeks. We've got a new set of equipment from Brian's also. We're we're gonna mix in the list. They've got a launch coming up here this week. So, lots on the go at The Hockey Shop.

And, of course, if you want more information on that new Brian's launch, you know where to get it. Custom orders, you know where to get it. Hockeyshophockeyshop.com. They'll help make sure whether it's kids or the brand new pro stuff, they'll make sure they get you the gear that works for you.

I visit the accessories page more often than anything else, and I ordered one of the Trinity inner padded gloves. Love it. Love it. It was a little it was a challenge getting my hand in my little glove the first time. I

did Oh, yeah.

Undo everything, but but I like it. It's not as cumbersome as I was expecting. A little and a little extra padding.

That's good to hear. I just assumed when you said you went to the accessories page, you were buying them out of danglers. Never have too many, Daren.

Broke one the other day.

I'm guessing if you're facing NHL shooters, that happens.

I broke one. And you know what happened had I not had it on?

You would have been in pain.

Exactly. You schmucks going without

your danglers. The guys you're facing, I'd put one on too.

I might hey. Listen. Like, not to take this in another direction. If I was the facing the guys you were facing, I'd put a giant bubble over my head or maybe one of those Guardian wraps that were starting to see. Yeah.

As I tell people all the time, I'm probably in the safest place in the world right in the middle of the net because they don't hit me a lot. Like, there's a lot. The post takes more beating than I do out there or the the handle of the stick. Good boys. NHL players get so frustrated when they hit the handle of the stick because they

The skill save.

Think that they beat you, and I tell them all the time. That's just good goaltending.

I was on Skill save. I was extension of my blocker. I was on angle. I gotta say, I'm guessing I would be frustrated when they keep hitting that too because at that velocity, there's a good chance they take a chunk out of it and might break a few.

It's been good lately. I've been touch wood. It's been good lately. The Parent Segment brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U, the app. We're going to get into some building some confidence, but our friends over at Stop It Goaltending U are really making some some strides and just week after week, it feels like.

And if you look at it monthly, boy, they there's a resource there that that needs to be leaned into if you haven't already.

Yeah. There's, I mean, new videos coming up every week. Right now, they've got coming down the pike this week. The primers are on good habits, pre ice practice games, equipment, and postgame. They've got a full video talking about parent segment.

They got a full video coming up this week preparing parents for the upcoming high school season. So maybe not up here in Canada, but similarly in terms of your season getting started. They've also got a Halloween promotion right now, and the Halloween promotion is one we wanna tell you about. Because the last couple of weeks, we talked about the game report and helping your kid by having a full game report. They do the analytics on one game, but they also walk through a game, put it in a separate folder for you.

Right now, if you purchase a premium membership, a, you get a membership to InGoal Magazine premium, but you also get a one free video game report when you purchase a premium membership to Stop It Goaltending U, the app. That's this week. It ends on Halloween. So if you've been thinking about Stop It Goaltending U the app. If you've been thinking about or you liked what you heard, we talked about last two weeks about a full game report from one of their coaches breaking down video, sharing clips with you and analysis.

Make sure you check them out this week. Every premium membership comes with one free video game report.

Parent Playbook

Lean into that, your game gets better. Lean into the layers of resources there, and you'll build some confidence, which is where David Hutchison comes in.

I'm going to. And just before I do that, guys, I don't know if either of you know this, but I got an email from one of the Canadian provincial associations this week. I'm not gonna say which one yet until it's absolutely signed, sealed, and delivered, but, they are gonna be sending out some summaries of some of our parent segments in their regular goalie development newsletters for all their goaltenders and families. So really cool to hear that what we're doing here is making an impression and it's gonna be around to help out a whole lot of goaltenders. And we do similar sorts of things with the formal agreements that we have with some other hockey associations and some goalie schools who provide InGoal for all of their students.

So anybody out there would like to talk to us, please let us know. But this week, one of the most common questions I get guys is about helping kids build confidence in some tough times. And I was reminded last night, here it comes, as I was watching hockey night in Canada, and Kevin Bieksa mentioned having an index card in his tape bag throughout his career. And the first line on it was one mistake, not two. As a reminder that it's okay to make mistakes, that you can recover from them, just try not to make two.

And he wasn't so much going into the whole idea of mental health, but he alluded and then pointed out the card that Kelly Hrudey has on set and he's carried for many years. And, it was an idea understand that he got from Tony Robbins back when Kelly played for the Los Angeles Kings, and he was feeling like he wasn't the goaltender that he should be, did not have the confidence that you might expect an NHL goalie would have. His story is a powerful one. We told part of it on the InGoal Radio Podcast. We'll link to that episode when Kelly was so kind as to join us.

Because after ten years in the NHL, as I said, he wasn't feeling like he was good enough and had same sorts of confidence struggles that young goaltenders can have as well. So Kelly carries around a card with some very personal things written on it to sort of reinforce his confidence and his strength and his ability. It also reminded me of Pete Fry, our good friend Pete, who part of his Goalie Mindset academy has his students do regular affirmations. And look, for some goalies, it sounds a little silly, but he has them look in the mirror and say, I am a great goalie. I am powerful.

And various other things that help that individual goaltender reinforce who they are as a person and and as a goaltender. Other people suggest pinning a card like Bieksa and Hrudey have on the bathroom mirror for similar reasons. It's a place you stop by several times a day and you can just get that gentle reminder as to what it is that you feel you are and need to be and want to be. It all sounds a little bit uncomfortable, but consider guys the book. I don't know if you've read it.

Atomic Habits by James Clear, I think it is. And he talks about as part of building strong habits, it's easier just to take on a persona. And an example might be, and I'm not sure if this one's in the book, but it came to mind, you want to be a marathon runner. It can take months or it can take years of daily training and healthy eating and racing for a lot of people to feel like they've earned the title marathon runner before they finally get out there and do that 42 kilometers. It's a huge challenge to go through all of that.

Well, Clear would tell you, just tell yourself self every day that you are a marathon runner. And trust me, living the life of one becomes much much easier. I've done similar sort of things, but I'm not gonna bore you with my my story. So so how does this apply to your young goaltender? I would encourage you to work with your young goalie to start telling themselves whatever positive message that you and they decide that they need every morning and every night.

Write a few phrases down, maybe on one of those index cards and keep it somewhere with you. On your desk as you're doing your homework, on the bathroom mirror as we mentioned, or maybe inside your phone case. And maybe it's a message like Pete's, I am a great goalie, or maybe it's something more specific that you need to be reminded of. I belong with my double a team. Next year, I'm gonna strive for something else and I can do this.

Whatever that might be, find the correct phrase for you. I would say though, you don't need to say I am an NHL goalie or I am the best goalie in the world because you know what? It's okay to reach for the stars, but it's also okay if your goals are different. You don't all have to feel you need it to make to the National Hockey League to feel like you've succeeded. I've told many goalies in the past simply to smile as a reminder to relax.

You can't smile and be tense at the same time, and it also helps you have fun. So maybe that's something. We've published articles in the past along this line. Rick DiPietro, for example, on his blocker, I believe it was, had written, take it one puck at a time. Or Eric Comrie, who Kevin just brought up.

I think it's on his stick, breathe, centered. It's a message that's changed over time, but it's a message, a mantra, something that helps them. And Corey Schneider, I think we kicked this all off with back in the day when we showed that CCM had actually stitched into his blocker for him. Don't fear failure. Compete a 100%.

Enjoy the process. Play for others. There's all sorts of different ways that you can remind yourself of that important message. And over time, little by little, it's not gonna come tomorrow. We can't sit down and have a conversation with our child and turn them into a confident goaltender.

But over time, this regular reinforcement of positive messages, I believe, will help them. Just a few simple ideas to help your young goaltender with confidence. Whatever you do though, as I said, it takes time. Hang in there. It is normal, and it is okay to struggle right up to the National Hockey League level.

And please, one last thing, if you do think your child's struggle or quite frankly your own, need the support of someone else, reach out to a mental health professional. It might be one of the ones we've had here on the show. It might be someone of your own choosing, but it's okay to ask for help.

I've told you guys before that during the course of recording every episode, I start with a clean sheet of paper. I write down elements to our segments to lean on, and then I doodle throughout. And and I think Woody you you do the same thing. Right?

Yep. I got it. I just put held up my notepad. I got a whole bunch of things in there.

And that that that was clean at the start. And I I write notes to myself that I wanna remember about whether it's the Gear Segment or the the feature interview, different bullet points. I take the most notes during Hutch's parent segment.

Now you're building my confidence, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you.

But the the the index card, I I'm sitting here listening to that conversation and what would I put on an index card and writing down different words that that would resonate with me if I'm not feeling my best going into a show, what would help me deliver a great show and be effective and be able to provide my bosses with with the service, but also be able to have fun. So I thank you for that, Hutch.

Oh, okay. So let me ask you on that note, Daren, because you're a professional broadcaster, obviously, the only one amongst us who can claim that. Smile. I jotted that one down because for the first time in my amateurish career, I have to do ad reads for a product with one of the local radio stations that sponsors me. And the producer that brings me in for the ad reads, the first time she was in there, she's like, energy.

I need a little more energy. Right? I was a little flat. I was a little nervous. And she just said, smile before you start with your read.

And the energy just that naturally picked up. And I think of goaltending, and I think of we how many times have you heard me say tension is the enemy of goaltending, a mantra I picked up for me and Clark. Right? If we're tense out there, our muscles are inherently less flowy and more restricted and our movement's not gonna be as as clean. Well, what does a smile do?

It removes tension. Like, I'm literally might start taping the word smile on my stick, you know, little white tape and and just put a little

Little happy face.

Little happy face and a couple dots and, you know, a little smile. I was curious, Daren, is that one you've you've used in the past?

Something that goes back to the early days of Sportsnet, and we didn't have everything dialed in when we launched the network, and things could go sideways in a hurry. And it's something that I've always used just smiling more. And the viewer doesn't know or they think that you're just going along with it, it's great. And you may be challenged inside, but outwardly, you're delivering this persona. And I I will say this during a great show, you're naturally laughing or smiling a lot.

I probably smile just as much during a terrible show because I'm consciously smiling more trying to deliver that convince myself, but also the viewer, everything. And and that is that is right on the money. If you're no matter what you're doing, if you're having a terrible day, consciously smile, and it will be reciprocated by other people because it's natural that if somebody smiles at you, you smile back at them. And it'll it'll help turn around your day. You're you're right on the money there.

Sort of a physical manifestation. Yes. It's a physical manifestation of the atomic habits.

Yes.

I am a marathon runner or whatever. I'm happy and I'm showing it. I wanna give credit to my high school track coach, Duncan Payne in Toronto. If anybody knows Duncan Payne in Toronto, let him know that I would like to thank him and he's influenced a generation of goaltenders to the extent that I've worked with a bunch of goaltenders and told them this very same thing. I think I told you guys this story.

Major junior goaltender several years ago was very frustrated in a camp and he came out of the net after a drill and I said, just go smile and go have some fun. And he went back in there and he stopped every shot and he came back out and he said, oh my god, it actually works. And checked in with me later that season and let me know that he'd been doing it during during his WHL season as well and was having a lot of great success as a result. So comes from so many levels. If you're hearing it from so many people in so many different contexts, there's gotta be something about it.

The marathon line reminded me of another sort of approach. It's on on running. Mhmm. Don't run. When you say to yourself, I'm gonna go for a run.

Don't say, don't I'm I'm gonna go for a run. You say, I'm a runner. They're they're the same thing, but they translate so much differently. I I didn't go for a run last night. I'm a runner who did five k.

Like I like it.

Kinda want something that I I don't run, but it it does mean something Yeah. To I'm a cyclist.

I only run if I'm being chased.

You're not allowed to put yourself down now, Daren. Sorry. You are a cyclist.

I'm I'm I'm a cyclist. Right. And I get to the top. That's my goal.

There you go.

Feature Interview - Kristen Campbell

I try and get to the top. Let's let's slide over to our NHL Sense Arena feature interview and my good friend, Kristen Campbell.

We've been chasing this interview for a little while. You heard me talk earlier about how much work Kristen puts in off the ice, on the ice, nose the like, the epitome of a no stone unturned, always looking for ways to get better. And, course, we talk about how you balance that with your foundations. So it's hard to find time when you're as busy as she is to make this happen. Took us a little while, but the timing is now perfect.

We are a little less than a month out from the second season of the PWHL. They've got a name now, and she talks to us about designing her gear for the Toronto Scepters now that they're no longer just PWHL Toronto. They got a logo. They got a name. She is the reigning and first ever PWH goalie PWHL goalie of the year, and she has a fantastic feature guest this week on the InGoal Radio Podcast with tons of advice and tips for goalies of all ages and abilities.

Would you classify her as a goalie nerd?

As long as she was okay with that classification? I I think so. I say that when I say that

yeah. The most yeah. No. It's not like nerd nerd, the revenge of the nerds. It's it look that up for for all the kids.

Good movie. But the but just so dialed into everything. I practice habits, gear. It it's so refreshing to see somebody that just absolutely encapsulated with every part of her game.

Yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And and, again, we've said, I'm naturally like, those are my favorite goalies. The ones that, you know, really think about their game, think about the different Yeah.

Elements of the But it is a fine line, right, between being able and she gets into this in practice. Being able to sort of be dialed in on every detail, but then how do we let it go in practice so that when we get into a game, we aren't thinking too much. And these are all elements that she talks about with us this week on the feature interview. Really excited to welcome to InGoal Radio Podcast, Kristen Campbell of PWHL now, Scepters. We don't just have to say Toronto.

We got a name on it. The Toronto Scepters and the PWHL. PWHL goalie of the year. I don't know where to start. So much has changed since we last talked to you in this format at least.

Let's just maybe rewind to that first season. Looking back on the first season of sort of this new league and this new level of commitment, what what to you are the biggest steps taken, the biggest differences you saw in the league as a whole?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, it was just such an incredible year. I think that, obviously, there was a lot of, history made last year, and I think the thing that stands out most to me is just the commitment by the league and by all the players to make it happen. It was years and years of sacrifice by so many, girls who should have had a league for many years in the past and just, like, their commitment to making it all come together and then obviously having the fan support and everyone backing us up and being able to sell out NHL venues, really see here in Toronto, like, the fan base get completely behind us. And I feel like the overwhelming amount of support was what I'm gonna remember most from season one, and we're just so excited for season two and to continue that mental momentum into the next season here pretty soon.

How does that commitment manifest itself on a day to day basis for you? You know, obviously, you're at the rink right now. You've got a facility to work out and then talk to us from afterwards. Did a great job on the Instagram takeover for the Toronto Scepters yeah, this week, and I thought I thought it really showed. So is it is it that?

Is it is it the infrastructure? Is it the coaching having Brad Kirkwood there on a on a regular basis? What are what are the biggest steps you see from years past?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, just having that structure again. I mean, when we didn't have the league, it was you're pretty much on your own. You didn't have a team to practice with every day. You're doing small group skill sessions, like goalie sessions on your own, playing games sporadically every couple weeks or even, like, playing the bigger games against, like, other countries with the national team every few months.

So, like, that was the biggest difference. Like, getting so excited to come to the rink every day because you have a team again, and you have a practice again, and you have a schedule, and workouts with the team, meals with the team. Just having that team environment was everything. And it was something that I hadn't had personally since college, and I was, at that point, graduated in 2020, but it was something that some girls didn't have for, like, ten plus years unless you're with the national team.

Like, there just wasn't that consistency to be able to practice with the team every day. So, like, that was the biggest difference. Like, getting so excited to come to the rink every day because you have a team again, and you have a practice again, and you have a schedule, and workouts with the team, meals with the team. Just having that team environment was everything. And it was something that I hadn't had personally since college, and I was, at that point, graduated in 2020, but it was something that some girls didn't have for, like, ten plus years unless you're with the national team.

So I think just having the resources now to have a fully professional league, having full time staff in every position has just made it incredible, and we're just gonna keep getting better and better from here on out, I believe, with what they've already created with the PWHL.

I've seen how hard you work in the off season. I've seen I don't wanna get into sort of how your off season training and the evolution of how you prepare has gone over the past couple of years, but I couldn't imagine trying to do that, you know, like, without a gym, without a facility. Like, you know, it just it just I guess, having had a little glimpse of it, it just it's hard for me to picture that doing that without the support you have now. How much easier is it now with all the infrastructure and and with the facilities?

Yeah. For sure. I mean, so many of us were putting in that work, like you'd mentioned, like, behind the scenes for years and years. And, like, when I graduated from college, I moved to Calgary and was able to train out of Winsport, which is an incredible facility. So I was lucky to have that there, but it was like I mentioned, it was sporadic.

Like, you were with either, like, four or five people sometimes, sometimes by yourself. So I think, yeah, it makes it just so enjoyable coming to the rink every day. And, honestly, I forget half the time that we're being paid to do this because for so many years, like, everyone's been doing this not for the money. Like, we've been doing it for the love of the game and, like, making no money out of playing hockey. And now that we have the PWHL, we're getting paid to play, and we're professional athletes.

And I think that that's what's pretty, like, overwhelming is, like, now realizing that this is a job and we're being paid because even if we weren't, like, we would still be doing this. So it's incredible.

Looking back at that first year, the year finishes. You win the inaugural PWHL goalie of the year award, but it didn't smart start necessarily as smoothly as a team and for you as you would have. I'm wondering if there's some good lessons there that you could share with us that you learned. I mean, everything is new. Everything has changed, and there's all these expectations, and maybe it doesn't get off to the start you want.

And then from what I read without being able to see all the games, sounded like the team was playing a looser style. Any takeaways that you could share with other, you know, young goalies or even professional goalies that are go maybe going through that right now for the first time at the start of their season?

Yeah. No. For sure. Was definitely if you look back on our season, I think people think of the win streak and, like, how many games we were able to win there as we got going. But, I mean, we did go through adversity at the start, and I truly believe that that's what allowed us to be able to go on that win streak and to find kind of rhythm there as we went.

But I think looking back on it overall, personally, it was me, hadn't played since 2020 a regular game schedule and just being able to focus kind of, like, in those situations. When we started out, we had I think we were one and four, so we'd played a handful of games. But it was kinda just like, hey. What are the wins in those games? Like, I kinda started to look instead of, like, at the final result, like, take away wins for myself.

Like, what did I do well in those games? Like, what can I do better? So I kinda took a step back and was just really focused on the process of it all. That was really hard for me because in college with Wisconsin, we were a winning program, and, like, we went we won so many times, and, like, we weren't getting the results there right away with Toronto. And it was kinda like, k.

Well, let's take away the wins. Let's focus on what I did well. Let's kinda have a couple of things to work on next practice and then just simplifying it. It was just simplifying the game for me, having a couple cues to focus on and nothing else. So I think just getting back to the basics, and it was something that going through that was what allowed me, though, to have success there as we went.

Any examples you can share in terms of one or two things that, like, hey. I went back to maybe my positioning or angle over depth or cues that you said to yourself in those games. Because you because I can imagine there was so much going on. You you can't fix it all at once, can you? You can't, like, you can't make you can't make a win unless you make the first save.

Like, you can't look at the end and the results, but so many of us talk about that, but doing it can be difficult.

Mhmm. Yeah. No. For sure. I think, like, I look back at, like, the turning point of our season, I would say, was when we were I think we were one and three.

We were in Montreal, and Poulin ties the game with twenty seconds left, goes end to end and around everyone, including myself. And then we go to a shootout. And, like, it was kind of like a must win situation at this point where it's like we needed to get a win. Like, the league is so tough. Like, we needed something to kinda get us on track, but we're going in a shootout, and they actually chose to shoot, Poulin three times because you could just keep reshooting.

But I feel like in that moment, like, it was kinda like, I found flow where it was just like, alright. Like, when they kept calling her name, I was like, I wanted them to call her name. Like, that's how I felt in that moment. I think that that's a huge, like, game changer talking with my sports psych. It was like this mentality of I've worked my whole life to be on this stage playing professional hockey, and it was like, I've done all the work, kind of I worked my whole life to be on this stage, so why not me that comes out on top in these moments?

So I kept asking myself, like, woah. Why not me? Like, why not me that gets us done right now? So, like, kind of that, I really leaned on in that moment. And then also just q is, like, you're going up against the best shooter in the world, hands down, I'd say.

So it was, like, just stay in my legs. Like, when I'm in my legs, I can access pucks from wherever and never come and pull away from the puck. So I was just telling myself, like, stay in my legs and be square. So that was my focus in the shootout. And when I keep things simple and as goalies, you know that, when you keep it simple, like, that's when you're gonna find success.

You don't wanna be thinking. So finding those cues, like, really helps you find that flow. But I would say, like, the biggest change was that game and kinda having that mentality of, like, I'm here on the biggest stage now from day one. Like, I've arrived here, so, like, why not me kind of mentality?

Instead of Poulin again, which is what the rest of us would have been saying. That mentality, because we've we've talked to different, you know, sort of sports, you know, mental coaches and things like that. You know? Your team takes a penalty in a tight game, embracing the penalty kill. I want this.

It sounds like that was a big one for you that that that being the that example moment.

Mhmm. For sure. I think, like, the mental side of it is something I put a ton of work into. And, like, as a goalie, you have to you have to be the strongest mentally on the team. But something I was very focused on was, like, I think sometimes it's easy to like, no matter what's going on in front of you, like, not getting caught up in that.

So coming back to, like, I can't control what's going on in front of me. Like, just do my job. And doing your job sometimes might not result in a win, but you have to just do your job and not try to control everything else in front of you, and that was another big lesson too.

So coming back to, like, I can't control what's going on in front of me. Like, just do my job. And doing your job sometimes might not result in a win, but you have to just do your job and not try to control everything else in front of you, and that was another big lesson too.

Oh, okay. You said stay in my legs. And, you know, we hear a lot about sort of keeping skates underneath us, and and it might be just a different expression. But can you expand on that a little bit? Because it really jumped out to me, what it means to you and how you know, when you look at video of yourself, maybe so you could describe to the rest of how it looks to you when you know you're staying in your legs.

Yeah. No. For sure. I think we always talk about the three main stances. So you got, like, your high stance, your medium stance, and your low stance.

So something I feel like I'm a bigger goalie, like, five foot ten in a woman's game. So sometimes I feel like I stay up longer than I should. Like, I need to when it comes across the red line, it's like I should be, like, getting in my legs, like, finding that, like, high to medium stance so that when the puck becomes a shooting threat, I can snap into it. So not being too straight off, if that makes sense. Like, getting in your legs, that athletic position, and as the puck gets closer, not coming up because you're trying to make yourself bigger, actually, like, diving into your legs so that you can be as structural efficient as possible, like, keeping that solid structure and being able to move laterally.

I think everything you can access every save selection if you're in your legs. That was something I was working on today in practice, and I noticed a big difference. I just tell myself, stay in your legs, stay in your legs no matter if it's a east to west pass or, like, a breakaway. Like, if I'm in my legs, I'm giving myself the best chance to come up with the save. So I I think that makes sense.

Yeah. No. It does. I mean, I'm just trying to make sure how it translate in my head may not be how it translates in the in the audience's head or what you mean, but sort of staying engaged with your legs, not not coming up and off of your positioning Yeah. Early in sequences or when you're moving.

Mhmm. Yeah. Making sure you're loading like, pretty much loading your legs and not being straight legged or yeah. Just finding that athletic ground.

I mean, the game's constantly evolving. Your game's constantly evolving. What are some of the changes? You mentioned staying in your legs. What what are some of the other things that you focus on?

Like, we're we're a little over a month, home opener November 30, so there's still a buildup here for you. What's the focus right now? Is it does it change daily or little things you're picking away at?

Yeah. I mean, like, I always have, like, one to two goals of each practice, like, what I'm focusing on and what I'm working on. Today, I was, like, staying in my legs and just having basics, like, strong eyelid on every puck and snapping those eyes. So kinda just getting my tracking, dialed in. But, yeah, we had, like, twenty, twenty five girls out today, so it was, a full four on four kinda flow, and that was really nice.

But I think it's been a long off season. Like, we were kinda starting back on ice in July. So you got July, August, September, October. Now you're heading into training camp. So it's definitely I pick daily focuses, but I think now that we're getting up in the season, I've been doing, like, one goalie session, one to two goalie sessions a week.

But now kinda, like, getting into those flow practices and where I'm not thinking, like, I find my goalie sessions are my time to think it out, like, think through things, kinda talk things with my goalie coach, like, think a little bit more. But then when it comes to practices, I really try to play those practices like a game and just, like, rethink about the goalie session as more of, like, the science y part of it. Like and then the practices is like, okay. Just don't think. Don't do any of the math and science.

Just play and find that flow. So I find that really helpful, and that's where I'm at right now is just trusting all the work I've put in in those sessions and then just going out and playing now here in the practices.

Just let the instincts take over and all the others. It's funny. I mean, I know you met him this summer up up in Kelowna, but Devon Levi and his off season coach, they call it programming. The goalie work is their programming, and then it's time to turn the programming off and just go play. So very similar example.

I love it. Is that easy to like, when you get into game situations, do you find doing that in practice makes it easier to get into a game and just play? Because we hear that all the time. Right? Goalies can become a little too restricted and thinking about things and technical in their play rather than just going out and let the instincts take over.

Yeah. For sure. I think it's super beneficial, especially now, like, in a pro schedule where, like, you maybe play on, like, a Wednesday and then have a day off, and then you play again on a Friday. So I think that, like, with that schedule, sometimes there's not even a lot of time to practice in between. So it's just, like, being very intentional.

Like, if you know you have a few days off, like, maybe you take one of those days to kinda have a really solid focus. And then, like, the practice before the game, I usually try to make that kinda like a flow state where, like, I'm have my keywords, like, that I wanna focus on, but I'm not actually, like, thinking through things, if that makes sense. I think that the turnaround's so quick that we always, like, quickly, like, kind of I debrief my game and then pull, like, three good things that I did, three things that I wanna improve upon. And then those three things are then put into the plan for, like, the following week so that by the time the next game hits, like, I've already worked out those kinks and feel really good about them, and then the process just keeps going over and over again. And I feel like that's how we're able to, like, learn, grow, and evolve throughout the whole season so that by the time it hits playoffs, like, you're feeling so good and, like, that's when you're peaking.

Is that was that an adjustment this year? You know, talk to some other players about just the frequency of the games, especially I mean, again, there wasn't much structure before, and and sometimes it was just national teams for for some players. But, even in college, right, college is a weekend league, and you have all week to prepare. And now all of sudden, it's like every second night. We we talk at the NHL level.

A lot of guys, it's I lose the time when I start playing every game to take care of the technical side, Finding that balance between taking care of your body and your rest and taking care of your technique, was that part of the process?

Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. I mean, it was definitely different for everyone, like, from staff to players. Like, we're all learning as we went, but I feel like going through a whole season of it now, I feel, like, really comfortable and confident in my plan that I had last year, like, going in this season knowing what to expect.

And I think recovery was a huge part of it. I mean, I have an ice bath in my condo. I have a swimming pool across the street, and I love swimming to keep the joints, like, moving and keep my body feeling good, but recovery was a big part of it. I have a NormaTec too. Like, just finding what works for you and whatever routine that is to make sure that by your next practice or game, you're feeling as good as you can and making sure that you're getting treatment when you need it.

So I think just having like, finding what routine works best for you was key for me this year just with the quick turnaround. Like, sometimes I remember we were in Boston. Like, we flew and we played in the Scotiabank Arena game, like, the next day against Montreal. So, yeah, it's definitely was challenging, but I think it was just so much fun. Like, we were losing track of time, losing track of weeks, months because it was, like, so exciting to finally have this league and to be on TSN and, like, where everyone can finally watch women's hockey regularly.

It was just such a you didn't want it to end. Like, when it ended, it was so sad and, like, obviously, it's coming back, so that's what's great. But, yeah, it was just such a so many emotions, like, in year one, and we're just so excited for the next season.

Okay. So the recovery tools that you use, because I know congratulations also, an ambassador for BioSteel now as well. So I'm guessing that's in the mix. Done some red light therapy from what we saw on the Mhmm. Mat with that Yeah.

We saw on the Instagram. You mentioned the NormaTec boots. I know a lot of guys use those in the a little different on the charter versus you can't throw those out on the plane when you're flying flying commercial. What are some of the other like, how do you like the for example, how do you use the NormaTecs? Is that, like, a half an hour after a skate or ice pass?

What are walk us through some of the things for, you know, young goalies that are just hitting this level or maybe it's junior. You know, how did recovery is so important, and yet I'm not sure we talk enough about how to do it right.

Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. I mean, with the ice bath, like, when I was feeling sore, like, whether it was, like, maybe we had a game the next day. Like, I usually do one the night before a game for, like, minutes, making it pretty cold.

Like, try to go to the neck. My trainer gets us to go to the neck, but I feel like legs was where I was staying mostly in season. But going to the neck is good. I feel like with the NormaTec, I honestly use it on the bus. Like, when we bused to Montreal in, like, Ottawa, like, I had it on in the back there.

Sprawled out. So, like, that was really nice, but I find the compression super helpful.

Is that like, so you use that before a game even, or is that

on the way home? Doing it more like if we travel, like, the day before, like, I would do it there, but I also use it before the game. Because when we have morning skate, like, I always like to come back, and then I'll take a nap. And then once I'm up for my nap, I'll go in the NormaTec for about thirty minutes, and that's on game day. Honestly, like, whatever I feel my body needs, but, I mean, I find as a goalie, like, obviously, we use our legs a ton, and I get pretty tight.

But the compression just really helps, like, feel like, I honestly noticed a huge difference because after games, like, if we played a late game on the road or something, like, after the game, like, we sometimes have a tight turnaround with, like, getting up at, like, 6AM to, like, catch a flight, and my body would just be so achy because you haven't got, like, your solid sleep cycles. So I found, like, using it postgame, like, actually helped me. So even if it was, like, 11PM, hop in it for, like, thirty minutes before I head to bed, and then, like, if we're on the bus in the morning, I'll hop in it again. Like, I found it really helpful. So I would say I use the NormaTec a lot.

But, yeah, I think that there's a lot of things you can do, but it's kinda not everything is gonna work for everyone. But probably the ice bath and the NormaTec were my top two recovery tools last season.

What about the evolution of how you train? I mean, we've had a glimpse of it, but for those of us that aren't, you know or I guess those in our audience that aren't lucky enough to sort of get to see the work you're doing in the off season, whether it's with Adam Francilia or with James Wendland, just I've just I've we get to see the work you put in. How's that how much of that is new? How's it evolved? Maybe talk through the audience about what the what the focus was this summer and how it's changed.

Mhmm. Yeah. No. I think, obviously, over the years, like, I've met a lot of great goalie coaches, trainers, and now it's, like, your point in your career where you have your people and you have your plan that works best for you. But, I mean, this summer, obviously, we looked at, like, this past season and, like, some things to improve on structurally on the ice.

So and the focus was just to continue building that fluidity on the ice in my movements and making sure I'm moving as efficiently as possible. A lot of it on the ice was focusing on rotations and making sure that when I am pushing east to west and laterally that that back shoulder is punching and driving me. It was a lot about, like, just making movement as efficient as possible and then also about moving less and trusting that structure when there's, like, net front scrums or chaos in front of the net. So just being more comfortable in chaos. But I feel like on ice, those were the focuses were fluidity and then being calm in those chaotic situations.

And then off the ice, a lot of patterning work, movement work, mobility work, strength, and positions that goalies are getting into regularly. So just everything that I do off the ice is connecting to something on the ice, and I really, really like that about the off ice work. I feel like you can do a ton of things off the ice, but maybe it's not as productive as it could be or, like, relating to something. But I feel like everything I do off the ice has a purpose and translates to something in my game, and I really like that.

We got a glimpse of it, and we've got a video that we're working on cutting up to sort of share with our audience, from Kelowna sorta. The the example and I know it goes through all the different things you do on the ice, but the example was, out of a reverse recovery where the drills off the ice would then later translate directly to the movement that was focused on on the ice. Do you see the benefit? Like, could you feel the benefit of that where you're specifically working on targeting in one muscle group or area off the ice, and then that same day you're trying to translate that into and feel it on the ice.

For sure. Yeah. I think that the off air stuff is huge. Like, even just if I'm taking an example of rotations in back shoulder, like, we'll do a lot of, like, Keiser work that's driving that backside hand. And the patterning work off the ice, you can kinda slow it down and, again, like, think about it more.

So then on the ice, when, like, the pace gets high or, like, you're in those game like situations, that connectivity is is happening, and it's automatic. So that's where you wanna get to where, like, you pattern off the ice, like, think it through. And then on the ice, everything is fluid, and you're not thinking, and you're connected. Because, obviously, the game is so high paced, and as a goalie, there's, like, a million things it feels like that you could possibly see in a game. But I feel like you should have the answer to anything that happens on the ice if you're able to kinda, like, take those skills off the ice, think about them, and then apply them directly.

Obviously, it takes time and time and time, and we're never gonna master it. But that's what's so fun about it is, like, there's always gonna be something that you can work off the ice that will relate to on the ice, and then same thing for on the ice. You're never gonna fully master this position for sure.

We've been blessed at InGoal to have you as a model for some off ice training as well with some of the balance board work with James and some of the different things, waking up the feet, some things that he does that are quite different from anyone else. Is that something that you've worked at? Like, is that a part of your routine now? Spike mat, which I love it love and hate at the same time every morning. Have those become fixtures for you?

Oh, yeah. For sure. Like, I love getting on this spike mat in the morning. I actually do, like, the toe foot ankle drills while I'm on this spike mat. I found, like, that's been helpful, like, really releasing the feet, but I feel like now my feet are really comfortable.

I feel like it doesn't feel like it hurts, but probably because it's not holding as much tension as it was before I started using it. But I think the toe foot ankle stuff, it really helps me, like, with my edges and, like, finding, like, the sweet spot on my foot. Because when I'm loading, like, even on my post, like, I'm trying to kinda, like, drive the big toe down so that when I'm pushing, like, I'm getting into my knee more and, like, landing in a better spot. So I feel like it just helped me, like, be overall, like, more aware of, like, my foot positioning and obviously, like, your feet kind of do a lot for you and, like, connect to everything in your body, and they're really important. So, yeah, I think just, like, keeping them, like, also loose, but also having that, like, proprioception and control, like, translates big time into, like, how we use our edges on the ice.

And I have noticed a big difference and also pretty, like, flexible ankles, but even with your post work and, like, being able to get onto the post, like, smoothly is something that we work on a ton. So, yeah, I really enjoyed, like, adding that to my workouts.

It's funny because I think a lot of people see it, and they and they see the footwork and, you know, the toe up, toes down, and that type of of work and how it re in theory, it's easy to understand how it relates to balance and how we engage edges. And yet I think some people have asked me like, hey. But in a skate, like, you know, where that foot's really locked in, have you changed at all how you do up or wear or the size of your skates are? Or do you feel like you have enough feel within a skate boot to to navigate that?

Yeah. No. That's a good question. Like, I'm in the Connects again. Like, I have the new black ones, but I love them.

But, like, I find I can feel my foot on the ice so well. Like, I just yeah. I would never go back to anything else. And the flexion in them, like, it can really get that knee over toe and, like, that power, and I feel like I've never felt that way in any other skate. Like, with these skates, it's like you'll feel the power in all positions.

So I feel like that's been pretty helpful. Hey. Head coach is there. Coach and us as in coach. But, yeah, I feel like, for sure, the Connects have been really helpful.

Okay. That's well, and that's it. That would be interesting. I'd be interested in, Leah, you know, when you some of the skates where the toe box a little more tighter, a little more restrictive, it'd be interesting to see if people feel the same ability to retain that control with the footwork. So speaking of Bauer, you now have a logo.

You now have a team name. What's I mean, you don't have to give anything away, but are you gonna have some fun with the gear this year?

Yeah. For sure. I have Bauer has done an amazing job. I have a couple of pairs actually lined up, so it's pretty yeah. It's always fun working with them.

Like, I work with Tommy Nguyen out of Bauer, and he's always, like, has the coolest ideas, and we go back and forth and bounce ideas off each other and then come to a conclusion. But it's definitely been a lot of fun now, like, having the logo to add to things and then, obviously, having a new team identity. So InGoal already showing up in Toronto next week, I heard. So I'm super excited to reveal it here pretty soon, and I feel like they always do such an incredible job. It's almost like I feel, like, big expectations every time I'm designing gear because I'm like, oh, man.

It has to be as good or better than what we did last, but you did such an amazing job that it's hard to beat. But, yeah, I feel like they always somehow find a way to make it even better each time. So pretty excited to do the gear reveal soon.

Well, that's a sign for everyone to make sure they keep an eye on your social media over the next little while to to see those pop up. They the Canada gear is always, like, you they always do a nice job with your Canada gear as well. How are you mixing these two things? Like, is it just easy, especially with Brad as your goalie coach there in Toronto and and on team Canada? But balancing that schedule, is that has that been difficult at all or just different?

Yeah. I mean, it's obviously different. Like, before, we never had a league to go back to. Like, the Canada, like, camps and the games and everything were, like, the only time we actually had that structure. So I think, yeah, it's just makes it honestly that much more exciting.

Like, we obviously have the national team set to go to, but then we also now have our pro teams that also take up a big chunk of our season now. So I think it's just different, like, you gotta find a way to manage it. I mean, last year was, like, a three week break for world championships, and then you're hopping back in the season. So it's definitely challenging, but I think that everyone found a way to make it work. And you just kinda have to have a solid plan for both sides of it.

And then, having him at both too, it's like we try to separate both sides too where it's like when we're at Hockey Canada, like, obviously, that's the priority. And then when we're at Toronto, that's the priority. But, yeah, I'm familiar with him. So, obviously, like, it helps, like, having him at both because we know each other very well.

He knows your game. He knows what you're working on. I just it would it would seem to be a nice fit that way. What about having teammates now on the national team that are your opponents? You mentioned the shootout with Poulin.

Like, is there good natured back and forth, some chirping going on? Because it's, like, this is somewhat new and yet the camaraderie and the rivalries between different countries and now having Americans that are our teammates. And how's I mean, it's hockey at the end of the day, but is there some good fun, good natured chirping going on out there?

Yeah. It's definitely fun. I mean, I have a lot of friends on the other teams. And, like, obviously, when we play, like, we're not thinking about that, and things are intense and people wanna win and, like, we're all competitive. So, yeah, I think it's nice.

Like, you know some players' tendencies. Right? Like, if you've practiced with them for a long time or, like, played with them. But, no, it's a challenge to play against the best players in the world every game, and that's what is making this league what it is. But, yeah, definitely, sometimes, like, people are up in my face, and it's all jokes.

And, yeah, like, sometimes they'll have some banter. But, no, it's funny. Like, one of my good friends, like, kinda ran me last year by accident, she says, on Ottawa, and then we are kinda, like, chirping back and forth about her. And, yeah, it's funny, but I think it's at the end of the day, like, everyone is just, like, loving this lifestyle so much of, like, finally getting to play, like, a season full time schedule against the best in the world, and we're all just loving it. And, obviously, everyone wants to win, but it is fun to play against the team be like your teammates.

Alright. Well, we're looking forward to watching again. Again, home opener, I believe, is November 30. You've got the Boston fleet in town. Camps opening soon.

Thank you so much for taking the time to sort of walk us through the evolution of the last year and and also off sharing all the advice off the ice and on the ice and all the different things you've been working on. I know our audience will benefit from it. I know it's busy for you right now, so thank you so much for spending this time with us.

Of course. Thanks for having me. It's always great to be on here.

We'll we'll catch up soon.

Sounds great.

Outro

Quick reaction. What's your takeaway from your conversation with Kristen?

Oh, I'm gonna be honest, Daren. This is one that I think you have to and I haven't had the chance yet. I think I need to listen to it back because there were so many things that jumped out. We only had this conversation a couple days ago. There were so many different elements.

You talked about your notepad that you make when we're talking. My notepad after talking to Kristen was full. I think one of the big ones for me, and I mentioned this in the interview that Devon Levi sort of calls it between the programming portion of practice and the playing part of practice. I think that is a big one, that we can work on goalie drills and technique to make sure when we're out there, we're the most efficient we can be and that that that that's a good goal to have. But that at some point, you have to go out and play the game and read and play on instinct and balancing those two.

Everyone has a different way of doing it. Everybody has a different balance point on how much of their game is instinct versus technique. But finding a way to let the programming part go and find the play tool act element is so important. And I think a lot of what's a lot of young goalies struggle with why we've started ProReads. You know, a lot of kids are really good in the first environment and then they can't replicate it when the game starts.

And so I thought she had some great advice on sort of how to approach that in practice so that when it comes time for a game, that mindset comes naturally to you.

There is a time in in hockey where if you if you varied from the drill on a goaltender, if you came in and you were supposed to shoot way up high and you shot down low, goalies wouldn't even try. Because it's like, do the drill properly. This Yes. And now now you find a lot of goalies double down on trying when the player just varies the drill because it's different and it's unexpected and you have to react to it. And you don't want it happening all the time, but if it does happen, you're you're ready for it.

It's almost like training practice to the game.

Well, I mean, there's two parts to it. If you're doing a goalie drill and there's a specific technique and you're specifically working on something, don't want a drill wrecker out there. Marcus Naslund used to be the worst drill wrecker every every summer in goalie camps with Canucks goalie coach former Canucks goalie coach Ian Clark. But as Carter Hutton told us for an article up, like, if you just do that all the time and you know where the shot's coming and know where it's headed for, you lose the ability to react instinctively. We have to find a better line of that in those two between those two worlds.

Hey. And when the drill breaks down, isn't that when it gets fun? Yeah. You know, that battle between players, shooters, and goaltenders, to see who's really gonna get it when things break down and it that's that's a lot of fun.

Just remember, clean out your net before every drill. Because if you let it pile up if you let it pile up, spiders notice. They're like, oh, a lot of pucks in here. Having a rough day. They may not even been at your end for a while.

What's going on?

My kid played for a coach who was an old school's 1970's junior B type coach. And I watched him go and start screaming at one of the goaltenders in a tryout to clean out his net. And he said, if I look across and I see a net filled with pucks like this, what do you think it makes me think of you as a goaltender? In far more colorful language.

I had a coach get by me one time and says, you must be warm. I said, what? You must be warm out here. It's fine. I don't I don't get it.

He's like, no. Seriously, you got a lot of coal in that net. Must be keeping a good fire going because of all the pucks there. It took me a while. Probably shouldn't have, but but from then on, like, there's no pucks in in in that net during practice.

Carey Price never left a puck in his net in practice. Was famous for making sure anyone that ended up in the net was immediately expelled and sent somewhere else.

I like that.

There's a little bit of swagger and attitude that can come with it.

Yeah. Yep. Just just be careful because I've also seen coaches with the exact opposite opinion and he's like, get those pucks back in there. Stop screwing up my ice surface.

And and also don't be turning around mid drill to make sure that pucks out when there's a flow drill happening and there's like three shots coming at you.

Firing it head high into the boards where the players are lined up that screwed up the last rep of the drill.

Wonder what Doug thinks of that. Doug Melvin. Good old 61 year old Doug.

We gotta find that out.

Gotta track down Dougie.

You threw me. My dog's name is Doug.

He's not 61.

No. He moves like it, though. He's got a bad hip.

He's a goalie. He's got a bad hip.

Dougie, we're coming for you. Doug Melvin up in Boise. E bug two times over. I wonder what he uses for gear. Everything.

Like, I'm I'm fascinated. I'm absolutely consumed by chatting with Doug.

This is gonna be the InGoal equivalent of ESPN thirty and thirty.

Yes. I

think Daren's doing that. Daren's doing this feature interview if we track Doug down.

Doug, like, I love the game. I love playing the game, and I'm in an advanced age for a goaltending. Doug's older than me, which doesn't I don't talk to people like that very often. And I'm I'm just curious about his what drives him? What keeps him going?

And if he if he does adopt some of the modern angles to his challenger nickname.

Well, I said the challenger stories a few years ago, so I'd be curious to see if it's if it's evolved over the over the couple of seasons since that article was published. We gotta find this out. These are the things that we have to find out on the InGoal Radio Podcast.

Thanks to Kristen Campbell for being part of our episode with the the NHL Sense Arena feature interview. Cam over at the Hockey Shop with our Gear Segment. Hutch nailed it again with the pair segment parent segment. And you guys, good catching up with you. Awesome stuff.

You make my mind just think a little bit. And when you're thinking, you're advancing. Even if you don't agree with everything, you're still thinking. Be good, and have a great week, and we'll talk to you next week on InGoal Radio, the podcast.