InGoal Radio Episode 278 with Eddie Lack and Doug Melvin

Intro

It might be the most jam packed episode of all time in all 7,222 episodes of InGoal Radio, the podcast. It's all coming up with David Hutchison, Kevin Woodley, who are together in the Lower Mainland today. Let's run through what we have today. The Gear Segment at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, the hockeyshop.com, focusing on the Brian's Optic 4. We have a new partner with us today on Vizual Edge.

Looking back at some ProReads at ingoalmag.com. Alex Lyon is gonna pop by for that. Our NHL Sense Arena feature interviews is a two parter. One, we'll focus on the business side and some of his career reflections with the former Vancouver Canuck also played for Carolina and New Jersey. I think there was a stop at Calgary in there with Eddie Lack.

And then our buddy from last week that we talked all about, Doug Melvin. Somehow, someway, Woody was able to catch up with the ebug in in Idaho. And we have the parent segment brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and it puts Hutch's Hutch's goalie union card on the line. Hutch, you've got some advice for people that, that I, quite frankly, I'm shocked is coming from you. That that's a whole lineup today.

Gentlemen, how are things going?

Well, it is busy. We're together because we had to film at the Hockey Shop this morning. So we've been chasing this morning, but, really, we just wanted to hang out because it's Hutch's birthday today. So Happy Birthday to the founder of InGoal Magazine. This is like a this is kinda like it should be a National Holiday.

And

It should be.

Problem is we already had a national holiday on November 1, so he gets thrown by the wayside in honor of International Goalie Day, which was frankly invented, coined by Paul Campbell, that the concept of celebrating Jacques Plantee putting on the mask, original idea at ingoalmag.com. We've celebrated it now for seven years since. This year, we do it with Doug Melvin. We had the feature article and the interview up at ingoalmag.com on November 1, and I can't think of anyone better to celebrate what goaltending is all about than somebody who was coached by Jacques Plantee coincidentally, but is still tending to win in the ECHL regularly as an EBUG, as a practice goalie, as a two a day training camp guy this year at the age of 65 in Doug Melvin. But also a reminder, folks, we our celebration of International Goalie Day, if you go to ingoalmag.com, there is a bunch of unlocked articles, that you can find.

So if you haven't subscribed yet to InGoal Magazine and InGoal Premium, go check out that article and the links because you will be able to get a feel for everything we're about. Some of our best articles over the past two years are up there, and you can check them out for free, unlocked. Everybody can read them. 'll get better as a goalie, and you get a glimpse of how we make you better as a goalie every week at ingoalmag.com.

Hutch, I'm gonna give you one hour at NHL Sense Arena today, unbothered, uninterrupted. You can just dial in to NHL Sense Arena.

I just have to riff for an hour on Sense Arena? Yep. K. That's really easy. Woody, what do you think of Sense Arena?

You know, I could probably go for an hour.

I know. That was my One question, Woody.

And by the way, Doug Melvin, we joked about it last week when we were teasing it that, hey, you know, at 65, he's probably not using Sense Arena. Well, you'd be wrong because he is a true student of the game and absolutely uses NHL Sense Arena.

Right on. Hey, first birthday shout out to my birthday buddy, former NHL goaltender, Eric Fichaud, who has also been a guest on the podcast before. Proud to share a birthday with him. Proud to have a birthday so close to goalie day. Also, I believe the first painted mask was the day before goalie day, October 31, Doug Favell in Philly, if I am not wrong.

I believe that is the first painted mask because Cheavers, I think, predated it, but that was with the lines on it. Favell was the first one to paint it, and it was That's a

bright orange.

Bright orange Halloween prank, think is how it all started basically. But yeah. And Flyers orange.

But, I digress. NHL Sense Arena, since Woody doesn't wanna step up and answer the one hour question, I'll give you a short little shout out to our friends at NHL Sense Arena. We've said many times before, best tool off ice for training as a goaltender just so incredibly realistic. As many NHL goaltenders and NHL coaches have told us. It is a great tool.

It is used in the pros. And, one of the things I love about it is the stats that it gives you guys. It gives you data that you cannot get in a game or in a practice, and I love numbers. I love tracking things. So you can do a drill in NHL Sense Arena, you know, and when you're done, it'll tell you what your reaction time was.

How quickly were you reacting to the puck? It'll give you data on how well you tracked the puck. And as a result, when you see those numbers, they improve as you go through the, as you go through the different drills and focus on improving them. And those are just some of them. Like, you can also you can get a great feel for how well you were filling the space in your net as it gives you an actual percentage of the net that you're filling up as you work on your stance and so on.

Very cool stuff. Of course, it also keeps track of saves and goals and you can see yourself on a leaderboard. And I've done drills before and found myself up on the leaderboard and I looked down, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's an NHL goaltender on the leaderboard with me. It's really a neat part of our sport that you can hang out in many ways with, with the pros, whether they're NHL guys, NCAA junior, You can see how you compare to them because it's used by goalies at every level every day to become better, and you can have a ton of fun doing it. So check it out at sensearena.com and use the code I g m 50 to save.

And keep an eye out for because it is November, which means Black Friday is coming up and nobody does Black Friday bigger than NHL Sense Arena. There'll be a number number of special offers that you'll be able to find on their social media channels as well as on the InGoal Magazine social media channels, including special offers with our discount code above and beyond what we typically do. So waiting waiting for the information. It should be here soon, but one of the best companies when it comes to those specials on Black Friday.

Hutch, any chance you're training to go to the Olympic games?

I feel like the new opportunity that we're hearing could come down that is three on three hockey, not replacing the current format of hockey, but adding to it with another event would be about the worst thing for a beer leaguer to possibly do because of the east west blow my groin trying to keep up with NHL all star game hockey, but I would love to watch them do this.

I am curious as can be to see what becomes of this. Obviously, I'm happy to see the NHL going back to the Olympics. But to add this event, whether they intend to use NHL or not, and and and does it have any attraction if it's not NHL? Is, like, what do you do, Daren? Like, if you're Canada or the like, do you take like, here's our all serious team.

Is it, like, the no back check squad for the three on three? Like, here's the guys that we don't think are actually gonna play defense. They can't be on the real Olympic team. We're gonna let them all play three on three, the high end skills guy. And who's playing goal?

Like, who who's signing up? Or do you think everybody would just line up to be a part of it because it's the Olympics?

I think there's a lineup five miles long.

There you go.

Or

how many teams are letting their goalies go?

I wanna give you some background here. I I I played three on three hockey when I was in Ontario. And in Newmarket, Mike Gartner and West Jarvis owned a a team, couple of rinks. And it's smaller ice surface than a regular rink, and it's three on three. You only need nine skaters for a group, and it was awesome.

We played every Sunday. It was the Fat Boys Hockey Club. It was great. I loved it. And then we got into a regular game with retired NHLers, and that was that was awesome.

And I I always wondered if there would be an avenue. It was created actually to get kids more involved in the game, more touches, and it the adults kinda took over. And I wondered if there was an avenue to to build on it. And now it sounds like the IOC and the IIHF are are working on something to add three on three hockey in a much smaller surface to the Olympic games.

Okay. That's what I was curious. I hadn't seen the full announcement. So it's gonna be in a smaller

Yes.

Because that's my experience.

The trials that they've used so far are on not quite two thirds, but in and around there.

Well, we have a league here that plays, and my beer league team stupidly signed up one year, and the idiot that signed us up put us in Div1 for a summer league, which is where all the all the AHL and college skaters came back to play. And it's the first time in my life I've ever halfway through a game, taking a whistle, taking a knee, clearly needed more time. The referee comes up and skates and asks if I'm okay. And I look up at him in all sincerity and said, I think so. But just out of curiosity, do you know where the defibrillator is?

Yeah. No. It's it's it's busy. And there's a floating ozone when you gain the o the blue line, the ozone goes to the center line. Like, there's a bunch of different rules of after goals, you have to give half ice.

There's no real whistle. Like, there's tons of stuff. Penalties are penalty shots. There's I don't know whether they use the same rules that we played under, but I'm sure that there's a lot of similarities. And the double IHF has done a couple of trial events already and found to to be very successful.

Okay. Well, as a goalie, all I know is and I can only imagine what it'd like with pro players. There is no break. No. Right?

Like, you know that play goes down the other end in a regular game, you rest. Like, they can score from there.

Yeah.

And I think two things that I think of whenever I think a three on three and playing it. One, it's a really fun opportunity to work on your puck handling until, in my case, as an old man, I run out of gas, I can't get out of my net. I just wanna, like, stay there. But you can have some fun if you can handle the puck. And two, I always used to break up the Bauer pads anytime I played three on three because the active rebounds and now, of course, CCM has the same active rebounds in their pads, so I wouldn't have to switch.

But back in the day when Bauer was so far ahead of the curve on the active rebounds, I would break out those pads specifically for three on three because every low shot off the pads was rocketing into the other end for an offensive end opportunity. So might just

score off one of those.

Just get it away from me as as quickly as possible. Thank you very much so I can take a half second breather before they come and shove it down my throat again.

I think there will be goalies that just weren't won't be cut out for this. Three and three.

I'm not gonna name names, but, yeah, there's a certain style of goaltender that I just don't think would love this for sure.

Not just physical, but mental too. Yeah. And slightly tease what I'm gonna do with the parent segment today, but you have to have the right mental approach when you go into something like that. And if you accept and understand what it is you're facing, you're gonna be okay. But if you go into three on three hockey thinking you're putting up a shutout, then you're gonna be frustrated and disappointed.

Yeah. If you're playing the same thing where I've given up three in the first period and my stats are this, well, you're you're sunk mentally on that side. And this is aimed for the twenty thirty Olympic Winter Games in France is where the the target is for the addition of three on three, not not in 2026.

So you're saying there's a chance for me to start working out? Yeah.

If you start really working on your game right now, take take the goalie.

Whole bunch of goalies flocking to it because for the longest time, this was the hardest. It's gotten hard to find goalies anyways. Right? Like, I mean Yeah. You're probably the same way down there, Daren.

Like, if I wanted to, I could play every single night and twice on most nights cause there's such a shortage up here right now for beer league level goalies. Three on three is the one that's even harder because a lot of goalies don't wanna touch this stuff. They're always looking for guys that are willing to play. Maybe the Olympics will will bring back a desire for guys to actually take part in those games.

This may surprise you, but I like the three on three game more than the big ice.

Yeah. You were you were a

dangler too. I'd love to watch it.

I wear a dangler. Exactly.

You'd see a whole whole lot more highlight real saves too. Like, if if you're if you're coming to watch acrobatic goaltenders, three on three hockey be the place to do it.

Do you think they'll use NHLers the first time?

Or Well, this is my question. Big question. Like, think of it back and forth and the fatigue think of the fatigue that I talked about in a three on three because there is no rest. Like, it is very way higher pace than an NHL game. Somebody tears a groin or injures a hip or something like that in at the Olympics in three on three, I I gotta think there are teams that just would not want their guy there.

Skaters, fine.

Yeah. Like, it is not like, I mean, I don't know. Maybe the intensity goes up and it changes, but I'd I I see a lot less collisions and a lot less even though it's a much smaller space and those guys are huge, when I watch him play three on three, I feel like there's a lot less injuries out there than there is at other skates.

Yeah. I'm with you on that. Coaching would be different. The the strategy. I I'm not sure you could use NHL coaches because it's such a different game.

You need somebody

This be a fun discussion for years to go.

I I'm I'm all for it. The the triple gold quest in one Olympic games between men's, women's, and three on three. And then we'll get into, hopefully, the adoption of the women's three on three game. You might you might have four hockey events in one Hey. Let's go for winter hockey

in the summer.

Right. That that's not a bad idea. And and this sort of rides the coattails of three on three basketball at the summer games, which was an absolutely different game. Different point totals for shots from different places, like the the three pointer we're used to, the deuce, and you also had the one pointer. So, like, there was there was all kinds of different wrinkles to three and three basketball, which made it

very attractive. As a comparison point, and I apologize for not knowing, Daren, didn't I just the Summer Olympics were on at a time where I didn't have a lot of TV time. Did NBA players or high level pros take part in three on three as well.

Yeah. WNBA players were all in on the, on on the women's side.

Maybe that's our answer. There is no equivalent as a goaltender to that in terms of a health risk, but that's interesting to see and hear.

Let's follow it, and let's cheer for it. More hockey at the Olympic Winter Games. I'm I'm in favor of, that too. I'm in favor of, new voices in on InGoal Radio Podcast, and we have a a brand new friend with us, a partner, Vizual Edge is going to stop by from this point forward discussing ProReads and leaning on the different visits that that you are able to have with NHL goaltenders.

Yeah. No. This is a chance for us on the podcast to talk a little bit about what happened each week, in our ProReads segment. And last week, our ProReads segment was Alex Lyon, who's off to a great start with the Detroit Red Wings. Coincidentally, his playing partner, also off to an exceptional start in a small sample with the Detroit Red Wings is a Vizual Edge user and proponent after seeing a a huge improvement in his game based on his visual scores improving.

So let's quickly give a little shout out to Vizual Edge before we get into Alex Lyon's latest ProReads. But essentially, what Vizual Edge is is and it's used by more than 50 NHL and AHL goalies. It's weight training for the eyes and brain, a way to strengthen your visual and cognitive processing skills for peak performance. All you need, they send you glasses, sort of red and blue lenses. I'm not too sure if there's a proper name for it.

Basically, one lens lens is red, one lens is blue, and then everything else runs through the computer. And they basically have programs on there to first measure and get yourself an edge test report, an edge score where they measure several different elements of your visual acuity, and then you can use your results to go and train your weaknesses as well as continue to improve on your strength. So they look at alignment. They look at depth perception. They look at recognition.

They look at tracking. And then two of the biggest ones, convergence and divergence, which we've heard before. And you've heard me talk about how my convergence was poor. My ability to sort of track pucks all the way in with the way my eyes come together off a release. And sure enough, when I did the edge test, my convergence score was 30 out of 77.

So not very good. So I'm gonna start using the program, using the glasses and the online tools to see how that improves. Even just taking the edge test and then having played later that day, I felt like I was seeing the puck better just because I was using my eyes. Yeah. I did.

And, you know, may who knows? Maybe it's placebo. I I remember saying to Hutch, I'm like, I don't think this was placebo. I I really felt like after it was just a coincidence that I took the test right before going to skate. And so my eyes were sort of warmed up and working, and I felt like I was seeing the puck much better.

Despite the fact that Tess told me, I do not see it all the way in very well at all. So I'm looking forward to seeing how Vizual Edge can improve my game. We've already heard and we'll hear from more goaltenders right up to the NHL on how it's improved their game. Looking forward to the partnership with them. We will, in the coming days on our social media platforms and next week on the podcast, have discount codes both for public consumers, but also a discount code that you'll be able to get when you log in to ProReads.

If you are an InGoal Magazine subscriber, you'll get a bigger discount. So this is a partnership we're just starting and one we can't wait to grow over the coming months and years with Vizual Edge, a tool that will help you see the puck better, which in turn will help you read the game better, which is why they are the perfect sponsor for our most popular segment at InGoal, and that is ProReads. And I gotta say Alex Lyon has not been a disappointment.

Good. I would watch Alex Lyon do ProReads all day long. It's not just I saw this, I saw that. You can hear in everything he says that he thinks the game at a completely different level, and that is something that's fantastic to to get a perspective on. The the one that really I just loved his terminology this week when he talked about business decisions on a short side shot.

So you're you're facing a shot from the short side, you've got a guy on the backdoor that you have to worry about, and how it's a business decision to be sure that you're fully committing to that guy on the shot. And we've heard this from other coaches, Rob Talos in Florida for example, in in one summer session talking about a similar situation. You'd better make this save. It's okay if this one gets by you. If you miss this one, the bench is really gonna be deflated.

If the backdoor tap in happens, guys are gonna understand. Obviously, you wanna hedge your bets. Obviously, you wanna have a way that you can try and get to that thing on the backdoor. You're not giving up on it, but there's certain things you really have to to make a decision for the the spirit morale of your team, and then he calls it a business decision.

I've never heard it put in those terms.

Well, I love it because if you think about it, I I'm not sure that he meant it this way, but it's a business decision because the goalie that lets this one in might not have a job next year. Yeah. Whereas he can let the backdoor in and still have a job. I doubt he meant it exactly that way, but that resonated that way for me.

Think the thought process has been around a long time, but never quite in that blunt of a terminology.

Well, we and we've heard it. Like, Thomas Speer talked about this too when we're on the ice summer camp, San Jose Sharks goalie coach, and I've heard him talk to his goaltenders about this when when they're up in Kelowna couple of summers ago or, you know, like, hey. Like, we can't give this one up. Like, this is the one you can't give up. And so as Alex said in this week's ProReads, he watches the video and for those who haven't seen ProReads, a reminder, this is NHL goalies.

Sit down and review saves and footage with us and walk us through the decision making process. And in this case, that short side shot was what he prioritized. He said you had to. You have to prioritize short side. As we said, it's like the business decision.

If you let this one in on the backdoor pass, nobody cares. But if you let in the short side one, you look like an idiot, so you have to hedge those bets too. I hate to say it, but that's the reality of the position. If he taps this in backdoor, it's a lot different. Now that said, the beauty of the next step is Alex Lyon walks us through the mechanics, including visually, letting his eyes lead and the hands just follow of how he's able to prioritize that front side and still make that backdoor save.

And one of them is the way he lets vision take over and the hands just flow and follow from it. The other one, and we'll leave this one and not explain it too closely. You gotta be a subscriber to dig into this one. How he does his toe ties and how loose they are and how that allows his pad to provide more coverage down low as well as in the five hole because it's not pulled tight to escape. It stays out forward and presses forward coverage, and that allows it to not wraparound and and expose more five hole.

So something you heard from him on the podcast with us, he gets it into into it even more on the video in our most recent ProReads up at ingoalmag.com. And now ProReads brought to you by our friends at Vizual Edge. They help you see the game better so that you'll be able to read the game better.

The longer toe ties artificially create a wider butterfly, you walk me through that, and it makes sense. I'm just not sure I could wear my pads like that.

Not everybody can, but there is clearly a benefit, and others do in the league.

Huge. I'm gonna try after watching mean, think

about it

this way. I'm totally gonna try.

It's it's it's tough to get used to, and sure certainly, the toe is exposed a little bit more. But I you you think about if you have a narrower butterfly and you have the toe tied done up tightly so that it pulls towards you, that inherently sticks the thigh rise straight out in front of you rather than letting that pad float forward at the skate and cover off more of the butterfly. It's all about angles and math as Alex Lyon explains in our in our latest ProReads and in our podcast and past visits. He's the only one who's articulated it this well. We've seen a lot of guys get this type of setup in the NHL.

Hey. Take it a step further. Wasn't it Katie Burt we had on the podcast?

No toe ties.

Doesn't even have toe ties.

Yeah. I did that once by accident. I didn't have an option.

Never do that again. I'm not sure we're the demographic thereafter here.

Yeah. No. Fair.

We're stuck in our ways.

Gear

That's why I'm hanging out with Doug Melvin. Doug's coming up in the NHL Sense Arena feature interview. Oh, great, great conversation with the EBug from up there in the ECHL in Idaho. And we also have a doubleheader this week in the NHL NHL feature interview brought to you by Sense Arena, and that is discussing things with Eddie Lack catching up on the business side, what he's been up to lately, and also doing some reminiscing on the goaltending front. So two great characters, Eddie and Doug on the way.

But first, let's get over to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com, and that's the presenting sponsor of InGoal Radio Podcast, and they allow us to dig into all the gear.

Yeah. Because they've got all the gear. So we're gonna dig a little pause. We've been talking about the kids lines lately. We've walked you through a couple different brands.

We have more brands to come in terms of helping make sure you get the right equipment for your young goaltender. Maybe it's the first set of equipment that they've had outside of association sets. We're gonna continue that trend, but our good friends over at Brian's Custom Sports had a launch. So we gotta get into the latest and greatest. November 1 is international goalie day, and they wisely launched their new gear, the Optic 4 line, which, by the way, Jake Allen calls the glove the best or greatest glove in the world, the optic four glove.

And he loved the Optic 2 glove and hadn't switched and now updated to the Optic 4. That's how much he likes this glove. So they've got it in stock, as always, at the hockey shop and the hockeyshop.com. Lots of different colors to choose from and, of course, the best place to go if you wanna customize it. For all the details on the changes, the updates, what makes this pad, blocker, and as Jake Allen says, glove so much better and an option for you.

Let's head over to Cam at the Hockey Shop and let him break it down.

Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports here in Langley. We're in Goal Utopia. Christmas comes early. Thanks to Brian's and their November launch of the Optic 4. I'm gonna apologize in advance, folks.

You may hear a little background noise. There is some construction going on around us here at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley because they are always trying to grow and get better, which is a perfect segue to Brian's Optic 4.

Wow. It's almost like you wrote that one down beforehand, Not bad, That's pretty good. Alright. That's why I get paid the big bucks, buddy. Oh, goodness.

Well, let's go right into the pack. And first thing that definitely strikes out or stands out would be their new graphic.

I was gonna say strikes out.

Are Not striking. Yankees fan? Oh. Oh, still fresh. The graphic itself, quite a bit more pronounced.

So, like, the old Optic 3, much more straight line. This one, much more jagged, kinda going back to, like, the original Optics almost a little bit more as well. Quite like it. I really like the way

it's Edgegy. Not jagged. Edgy. Edgy. It's an edgy graphic.

I like an edgy graphic.

Well, there we go. We have one right here. So moving on to the actual back of the pad where we start to see some more changes over the Optic 3. The big thing that I really, really like is the new knee cradle. So reason why is that big thick stack that's came over from the the new Iconic line.

This stack quite a bit thicker, much more stable when you drop down into the butterfly.

Oh, they've got the stabilizer bar on

there? That's correct. Yeah. Allowing the goalie to sit taller, straighter, more stable. We'll keep saying that word.

And itself, it's not that same integrated knee that we've seen on, like, other brands. Bauer and CCM.

Correct. But there is a rigidity to it.

Exactly. Exactly. So you will have that stability. Nice. Yeah.

Moving in to the strapping system. They have a new upper control strap.

Kinda like a professor strap.

Exactly. But theirs has always been more of a fixed with a nylon. Now they've added elasticity to it as well. So again, a little bit better connectivity, not as rigid, especially on the leg with, you know, what would be a stiff pack. Opening up a little bit more, we can see they actually have an adjustable cap strapping system as well.

You can kind of customize this a little bit more to what your own fit. So fill this that old smart strap, but you can mount it down or up. Your favorite thing.

Pillow removable.

And it's not legal in the NHL, although I've seen some exceptions, made.

Yeah. There you go. One other note that I really, really do like is that this actual calf mounting Velcro can be adjusted up or down if they're on a laced in rail as well. So you really can get some customization to a pad that's stock off the wall.

Yeah. You can really dial this thing in in a lot of different ways in terms of how tight, where you want the snugness to be. Exactly. I like it.

Three different cores available. All the ones that you'll see at the shop will be the max core, so they're stiffest setting. There's also fly and flex, which will be giving you a softer core, different toe taper to each one. These reference a customizer for those exact toe tapers or call the Hockey Shop.

Yes. So the differences though, where where's the flex in the flex compared to

So it's the overall once again, the overall stiffness profile of the entire pad. So as you drop it and make it softer, for example, Max Core being the stiffest, start to see a more simulated break below the knee. And then when we get to the flex, it's quite a bit softer. So both the thigh rise and boot. So

what about the boot? Is the boot standard?

It remains flexy throughout.

Okay. That's what I wanted to get into. It's more up in the end of the face of the pad as opposed to just the boot. The boot is sort of a standard for them. Okay.

Glove. One more quick more note. Sorry. That was me.

Bri core makes its return to the pad. That's what is giving a lot of this its rigidity. It's also giving it a great rebound quality too as well. That's two carbon sheets and then foam sandwich in

the middle. Foam sandwich between two carbon sheets Bri core. As opposed to Cam's group of buddies, they call them the bro core. Yeah. Primo with the slide.

Don't forget about the Opti slide as well. Primo makes its return beloved material. It's done very, very well from, you know, enough good reviews. It slides well. Yeah.

You know what? No.

It slides.

Nothing else that needs to be said other than it's great and it's a great anti wear material too. It does very, very well in those high contact surface areas.

Where are we? Where's your experience with? We've seen this with with Brian's for a little bit where they take the knee, the elastic knee strap, and they inset it a bit as opposed to having it run on the outside of the knee block. How you you got you can adjust it in two different ways and go around the knee or down below, but having it offset like that, what's been the feedback?

So especially if you're wearing a larger knee pad, this allows it to almost tuck in behind your knee right where it hinges. So it almost makes it it's there, but it doesn't feel like that same catch and grab as it wraps around the entire weight.

The secret is to make sure you can sort of keep it under the knee as opposed to wrapping Correct. Around it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Moving on. Glove, which you have heard about already on the InGoal Radio Podcast featuring Jake Allen. Jake Allen loves this glove. There are some changes, and he was surprised because quite often pros they'll go with the previous generation. When Jake went to true pads and blockers, now back in O'Brien's or in O'Brien's for the first time, he kept the glove.

When they went to the Optic 4, he switched into the Optic 4. In his words, the best glove in the world.

Why? Wow. I mean, that's a He will never he's like, I will wear this that up.

I will wear this glove until I am done playing. That's how much he loves it. Okay. Thinks more guys should be in it.

Yeah. There you go. A glorious review from Jake Allen. So one of the striking features of the glove itself is just the overall size of that pocket area and, like, surface depth.

As he said, everything just funnels into the pocket.

It's aggressive on the angles of the thumb and the fingers, really helping to deflect that puck into that pocket itself. It's kind of close ish to a five ninety ish kind of. The thing with Brian's

A little bit of that curl over at the top.

Yeah. They don't label their gloves the same way as you do, you know, you hear from CCM or True for that matter. But that said, again, to us, this feels closest to a 590. If you are in a 590, in theory, it should get you again that similar feel. In terms of overall feel and improvements on the backhand, we see their ATOP system makes its turn.

That's different because you click backwards instead of hopping up from that old boa system. Again, nice deep gate lace pocket, right core to the catching glove itself. Great overall feel. Blocker. Blocker eye.

This thing is look at the flex in the wrist. Big open wrist on the back. Maybe show yours because it's white. It'll show up a little better.

So that's one of the new features to the cuff. You see that extended overall cuff flap itself. You're getting that great mobility out of it. Good connective feel. One thing we noticed with the blocker, it does feel a little bottom heavy.

So that can be a bit of an improvement though because that will kind of tilt your hand forward. It's helping you get that squareness to the shooter itself. Big thick Bri core board. Big thick Bri core board. Say that a couple times fast.

A lot of padding on the inside as well. A lot of protection on the inside of the thumb with

double pillows basically. Pillows on two layers. One inside

the board and one inside your thumb. Double pillows.

That's And removable. No? Yes. Yes. And that helps to find that a

little too thick, you can Yeah. You can thin it out a

little bit. And that helps to keep that sidewall again rigid as well. So as you are sealing up, you get that extra protection as well as that extra cushion. So, Brian's Optic four.

If you got any questions, sizing, different flex points as Cam mentioned, different colorways that they have available, they do have it in stock so off the shelf you can buy it and wear it right now or if you want to do custom orders because Brian's is the custom goal company, Cam and his crew can walk you through all the details, all the specs, all the options if you wanna change a few things up. Cam, where did they get ahold of

you? (604) 589-1899 or 1-800-567-7790. You can email us at sales@thehockeyshop.com.

The best glove in the world according to Jake Allen. Probably not when it's on my handle.

There's some high praise for that glove. And the gear itself, the pads and the and the blocker, but some real, real compliments coming in for the mitt.

Yeah. Jake Allen loves this thing. Right? Like, we saw him when he was in Montreal. He went True pads, True blocker, but I knew because there was some talk about him switching the glove and I just know how much he loved it and there was no way he was switching and he didn't.

And now as we talk to him on the podcast, he's he's in full

He loves the glove too. So, like, there's there's some, acknowledging there.

The best part of these gear segments for me is I'm standing there behind the camera watching Cam and Woody riff back and forth on them, and I wanna head over to the shelf and grab one and just put it in my shopping cart as I'm leaving. Because they get me excited in this glove especially just as as Woody reminded us about Jake Allen and brought me back to the original set of Brian's genetic that we got from them and how much I love that glove. I'd I'd love to hit the ice with one of those and see how it goes.

I thought that was you working on the construction on the background.

You know, I try and I try multitask, you know, they're so good to us. Yeah. No. No. I no.

If you've seen me do any home projects, Daren, I can I can do almost anything, but it's gonna take 10 times longer than anybody else and cost twice as much? So they wouldn't let me near it.

This may shock you, Daren, but they barely let me change light bulbs around here. So we don't have to worry about me doing any, handyman work.

I have to do everything

something was my kid's swing set in the backyard at our old house, and my brother and my dad were literally setting the over under on emergency room visits because it involved a saw and nails.

Oh, for you, not in the kids?

No. For me. Yeah. 100% for me. The kids would be fine.

They probably could have built it better than I would have. They were five

at the maybe them having to deal with something that you put together.

No. No. The thing actually lasted pretty good. But the fact that it was a prefab thing with the wood, you had to cut it and everything. My for sure, my my direct family thought I was gonna end up cutting some digit off.

It's great to have Hutch with us because truth be told, based on what I've heard, he may not be around much longer on InGoal Radio, the podcast. I know you're the founder. I know you're an unbelievable contributor, but your your card is in jeopardy to the goalie union.

I know I know that the the goalie union card. I'm I'm glad that we are only joking about this and that there isn't really some higher level institute of goaltending excellence or something that could take that card away from me because yeah. So today's parent segment, boys. I am gonna I'm gonna tell you something that I think you need to do, but it's not gonna be easy to do, and I might get a little trouble when I tell you. But before I do, Woody should probably tell us about what's up with our friends at Stop It Goaltending.

Well, we talked they had the fantastic offer through Halloween to get the game reports as part of a premium membership. That's expired, but the game reports are still available. So you can always find that on the app. Stop It Goaltending U, the app, gives you the best of both worlds. It gives you a subscription to InGoal Magazine, as well as all the content over at Stop It Goaltending U, which includes daily affirmations, daily quick hits that you can just watch in a couple minutes.

You'll get better just watching every one of those every day. They've got teaching content. They've got gear content. They've got everything for everyone on a goaltending perspective, and they've got it updated weekly short. Each week typically features five of the quick hits, shorter videos, one medium length video, and one deep dive twenty minutes, whether it's a technical presentation, an overview of an NHL goaltender and how he plays certain things or their game style, or as I said, tips.

So they've got it all over at Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and, of course, best of both worlds. You also get a subscription to InGoalmag premium, ingoalmag.com, the premium product included for free when you subscribe to Stop It Goaltending U, the app. All those years, I just celebrated twenty five of experience. They bring it all to you. Brian Daccord, the founder, has been a NHL goalie coach and NHL goalie director.

His son Joey plays in the league. He's done it all, and all that knowledge is passed along from him and his entire staff at Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

Parent Playbook

Awesome. Here we go. Here's the big risk I'm taking this week.

We should get your card, and and you should give it up, and we'll give it back if if you you towed the line.

Okay. I have a feeling I'm gonna be in trouble. We'll we'll see how it goes here. It's something we all do. Goalies do it.

Parents do it. Oh my heavens. If you've ever ridden in a car with Kevin Woodley, he does it. We need to stop blaming our defense after tough games. And Woody knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Look, after a tough goal or a difficult game, all of us goalies are prone to complaining, and as parents, we do it too. Oh, if Johnny, if only you had some defense, it would have been fine today. Or why don't our forwards ever back check? Or if it's Woody, sure, eight got by me tonight, but come on, can I get a little bit of help back here?

You were watching me at the Pro Am?

Look. It's only human nature. We wanna minimize the pain of what we've been through, and we know that when someone looks at the score, they make assumptions about the goaltending and our kids and that there's no clear sight analytics at your kid's u 13 game to put it all into context. So we blame. We know the other parents and the other fans in the rink love to point out when our goalie has been scored on, and often we even hear them let out of some sort of frustration or groan when the puck goes by our kid, ignorant of the fact that five other kids out on the ice have made a mistake that led to the shot on goal in the first place.

So whether it's under our breath as parents or in the car ride home talking to our kid or maybe even out loud in the rink when we really get frustrated, we find other people to blame. Why didn't the d just lift some sticks in front? If only that kid could skate backwards, the forward wouldn't have had a clear path to the net or or whatever. It's only natural. And, as I said, as parents, we want our kids to be happy and we hate to see them hurting.

So some of us, I've done it before, point out others failures to make it clear to our kid that they're not alone in making mistakes out there. But I'm here to tell you today, I am risking the union card. We need to not do that or we need to at least do it less. Yes. There will be times, especially when our kids are younger, that you need to explain to them that they're not the only one out there who is beaten on a goal.

our goal is to raise an independent young goaltender. Because when they go off to play junior hockey in another city or college or whatever, they're not gonna have you there to walk them through every difficult performance.

But remember, our goal is to raise an independent young goaltender. Because when they go off to play junior hockey in another city or college or whatever, they're not gonna have you there to walk them through every difficult performance. So we want them to understand the concept that it takes several mistakes before the shot on goal even happens and that they're part of a team. But that's sort of a a mental skill we want to give them and then we want them to be able to stand on their own. The old golden rule, remember?

You hate hearing people blame the goalie, so we can't be setting the wrong example by blaming others as well. We don't want our child to learn the concept of blaming others. Now we also need to own our part of the responsibility because we don't want to raise a young goalie that walks away from the rink after every game feeling confident like nothing is his or her fault because they had no support out there, and that doesn't equip them to make progress in the game. Like anything in life, we need to be able to self evaluate and to understand where we can get better and be able to guide ourselves in taking those steps to improve. So look, as moms and dads, just imagine a coworker who thinks everything else is somebody else's fault.

That's not a person you want to work with. Making up for teammates as well, guys, it's our job description. Like, it's what we're expected to do. If the players in front of you were perfect, you wouldn't have anything to do. There would be no shots on goal.

So your job quite simply is to come up with the save when your teammates make a mistake. Yes. Sometimes they make more than you'd like them to do. I'd also like to point out that it's a hard reality that at the higher levels of the game, the team general manager is not gonna look at his team giving up a bunch of goals over a long period of time and think, boy, my goaltending's great. We need to find some defense.

Frankly, most of them are going to tell you straight up that they don't know anything about goaltending, they know when too many pucks are going in. Now, I kind of like it to that old adage that, when a team is struggling, you can't change the team, so you change the coach. Well, next level of that at higher levels in the game is that you can't find a bunch of defensemen but you might be able to find a goalie you can perform and make up for that. Just like there have been a lot of great coaches fired even though they're doing a good job and the team's not keeping up, goalies at higher levels get changed because the team just needs more. So look, I'm not trying to be harsh on kids here and I'm certainly not suggesting that we treat young kids this way.

much as Woody always says tension is the enemy of goaltending, referring to your physical state, I think this is just as true with your mental game and learning to accept the situation.

I'm simply pointing out that's the reality of what you're preparing your child for in the long run. So if we can help them get to the point where they first understand that they're not alone out there, where goals do happen with everybody being a part of it, but then accept that they still have a role to play on almost all goals, they're gonna grow stronger. They're gonna take more ownership of the game, and they will become better goaltenders. Also, I believe that much as Woody always says tension is the enemy of goaltending, referring to your physical state, I think this is just as true with your mental game and learning to accept the situation. Players make mistakes.

Perhaps you're on a weaker team. And then be able to go out there and play within that situation that you've accepted, that takes away a lot of that mental tension and lets you relax as a goaltender. Sounds a bit odd, but simply knowing, okay, I'm not expecting a lot of help tonight. I know I'm playing a good team. It is what it is.

Get to work and go have fun. Kinda talked about that with the three on three as we were saying before. If you understand what you're up against, it makes it a lot easier. If we set up a culture as parents though of blame, then our goalie is gonna go out on the ice in a negative state. Instead of going out and playing and having fun, they're gonna look at every situation that happens around them and they're gonna get upset because we've trained them to blame.

They're gonna see the missed assignments. They're gonna see the turnovers, and they're gonna be blaming people before the shot even comes. That's not putting you in a position to be successful. So if they do skate out on the ice, understanding mistakes happen more on some teams than others as I said, then they can play a lot more freely with a lot less tension mentally, and I think they're gonna be more successful. So after the next game, please don't say, Sally, you were great out there.

If only you had some help. Instead, try something like, I'm really proud of how hard you worked out there and how you battled under some tough circumstances. There were a lot of grade a chances, so I know it was a tough game. I believe there's an important difference between those two scenarios I just gave. In one case, you're shifting blame and responsibility, whereas in the other one, you're just acknowledging that it was tough and it's an objective statement that there were a lot of grade a chances, but you're not pinning them on anybody.

We're here, as I said, to make up for the mistakes that others make. That is never gonna change, and, your kid's gonna get blamed by others sadly. But if we can help avoid that short term fix of blaming others, then I think in the long run, we're gonna help our goalies make more saves and enjoy the game more.

Is that a long way to say that Woody and I have to suck it up?

Well, so does Hutch. Like, as a goalie parent, I do it too.

I feel attacked.

Yeah. No. Like, we all do it, and I've done it many times. You see your kid and he just like, he's got that long face. They come out of the rink.

They're feeling sad. They've given up more goals than they like to give up in a game, and you just wanna say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if this hadn't happened and this hadn't happened and this hadn't happened and you're trying to make them feel good, but I really don't think that helps in the grand scheme of things.

Flip it. Like, think about it if you were the other players just saying, oh, the goalie come up with a save. Like, we don't love it when everybody else just blames the goalie. So we're kinda doing the same thing when we just blame everyone else.

Yeah. And I and I felt that way. I've been thinking about this for for many years and I've been wanting to say this on the show at some point. But then as I was writing this out, that idea of the mental tension that it creates by having kind of a blame culture really came to me. And and I think that's is in many ways a bigger part of the whole thing.

Well, you guys haven't seen the special ops pickles play on Thursday night here. There's gonna be some shared blame. I don't care what you say, Hutch, but I I understand. I understand your direction.

You're accepting that it's shared blame and you're moving on. Right?

Well, and if you go into those games knowing that you're facing backdoor two on ones all night, it's fun to come up with some of those saves. I I hate like, I I'm not taking away your goalie union card on this one, Hutch. I just lived through this. Yeah. Right?

Like, the Canucks Autism Network charity program this weekend is a total mixed bag of skill levels. You've got NHL players and some guys who think they should be NHL players out there Support against players that, you know, just are, like, at the lowest divisions of senior hockey. And as a goalie, it's really tough to play behind, but I don't go in there thinking that my performance matters. I'm trying my best, although this is tough for me because I have such a massive ego, but to check it at the door because I'm just out there to have fun. It doesn't matter if I give up two or give up seven.

And I did give up seven this weekend in one of the games. But you know what? I was out there for a different reason for a different cause. And even in the one where I gave up seven, you know, did I make a save off a backdoor pass from an NHL or that was a good play? Yeah.

And I took joy in that, and I took joy in my teammates, and I took joy in the camaraderie, and in the fact we're out out there raising money for a good cause. If I had gone in there with the mindset of don't embarrass yourself or win or whatever, I would have not enjoyed it. Instead, I gave up seven and had a smile on my face from ear to ear. And so I do think this it's not the perfect example. I'm not trying to, you know, develop a career and getting hung out to dry, you know, as as a young goaltender hoping to move up the ranks.

But the way it affected my mindset and my tension, I wasn't out there worried about how I looked. I just wanted to go out and have fun and make some saves.

The tricky part as a parent is you hear it, and you know other people are pointing the finger at your kid. And you've gotta be the bigger person and move beyond that because it is for your kids in your kid's best interest that you do that.

I think that's the important lesson here. Even if we know the other things are true, constantly pointing that out to our kids does nothing but give them an excuse or an out.

Yeah. And sets them up mentally for failure. I think in the long run, it might it might be a quick fix. It might make those some of those tears go away on the on the way home, but, I think in the long run, you're not helping them.

Is there an age where you start adopting that?

I a 100% believe that, it's a continuous process. I also believe that every child is different. Like anything that we do, we have to be reminded of things constantly. So, yeah, there's there's times with an 18 year old kid, you can still need to remind them that they're not the only one out there making mistakes. They need to learn that, but but how you do that and how you shift it away from blame and so on is is what you need to do.

And we all all our kids progress differently. So that's a short Hutch sit on the fence non answer for you.

You worked for me at 51.

You can give him his card back. See? I like it.

Oh, you guys are

You can

give him his card back.

I didn't hear I was waiting for the knock at the door, but I didn't hear it. So the goalie union police by the way, you said there's no secret society that keeps track of who has the cards or not. I'm starting one. Well,

if anybody else would like to revoke my card, you can just, hit me up parents at InGoalmag.com. Love hearing from you. Questions you want us to cover here on the show or just comments you wanna make about one of the segments, let me know. I'd love to

Feature Interview - Eddie Lack

hear from you. Let's get into our feature interview brought to you by NHL Sense Arena. And there's a double hit this week. We've got Doug Melvin standing by who we talked about at length last week, and, what an amazing job, by Woody and, and our crew to be able to track down Doug. Thanks to the listeners as well for, putting in us in contact, with Doug.

But we also have Eddie Lack, one of the great, personalities of of the goaltending universe, and you had a chance to hang out with them this weekend.

I did. Yeah. He was a part of that Canucks Autism Network tournament. His first time back in Vancouver since he left as a player. I mean, I guess he'd been back as a as a visiting player, I'm assuming at one point, whether it was Calgary or Carolina or with the devils.

But this is his first time back in an alumni capacity. He's got two young kids at home and started a real estate business down in Arizona where he lives full time and doing really well. And so we talked about everything, Daren. After playing against each other in the Can Pro Am All Star Game, we had a car ride. This is right back to the Roberto Luongo days.

Car ride back to the hotel where we did this interview. So, it was great to catch up with him. There's a lot of great anecdotes in here about some of the great goalies he played with from Henrik Lundqvist at World Championships to Roberto Luongo to Ryan Miller to Jacob Markstrom and the ties that bind, the commonality between them and the lessons he learned along the way that he passed on for a few years as a goalie coach at ASU, and now even when he does summer camps and maybe in the future as a goalie parent. So let's hear from Eddie Lack on his career and all those lessons along the way and how he's applying them now. Really excited to welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast.

A little cameo here from Eddie Lack. Back in Vancouver for the first time in what? Like, five years? Five years. Yeah.

Yeah. What was the reception like?

Very positive. I miss all of you guys. It's been fun to be back, and and, yeah. I'm a little tired now. Just finished our fourth game.

My team went o and four, so it's been a good weekend.

Been a good weekend for me. I went four-zero and by the way, one of them was against you, so I'll take it.

And you also stopped the shootout that we had after, so you get the bragging rights for a year.

Yeah. There's like, I I don't know if you were looking afterwards when the horseshoe fell out of my butt as you were skating away, but, yeah, I'll take it.

Well, I also gave away my sticks before the shootout, so I had to borrow borrow a stick.

So that was the reason? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I believe you. I fully believe you. So you're not a goalie anymore. You're a sniper. I've heard about the Live Barn highlights, but you're still doing a little bit of work with goalies in the summer in camps. Yep. How do you like is it important to you? Do you still love staying in touch with the position?

Yeah. I like to stay in touch with everything, and and and I I think when my kids get older and stuff, it's definitely something that I'd be looking to get into hockey a little bit more if that's what they wanna do. Right? But my son is kinda crazy like me, so I think he's gonna be a goalie and and and probably gonna have to be the coach eventually.

So are you cool with that? With your son being a goalie? Because not like, we've had a bunch of guys on that played in the show that were like, my kid is not being a goalie.

If I had the choice, I want both my kids to play golf and and and just hang out outside with them and play outside with them and everything, but my kids will do what they wanna do. And and and whatever they wanna do, I'm gonna support them in.

So yeah. Love it. So based on your experiences, if you become a goalie dad, what would be the other advice like, what advice would you give to other goalie dad?

Oh, wow. I think, like, when I played, I think I was just, like, too caught up in, like, the day to day stuff, and you're so disappointed when you lose, and you're so happy when you win, but also like the technique wise, I mean you and I, we talked about this a lot, and like, I just thought the game a little bit too much out there I think, and and and my biggest advice would be to just like relax and just play because especially by by the end of my career when I had all the hip issues, and I had to turn my hip one way one one day to like be able to like skate, and it just kinda took the fun out of it. And and and just have fun out there and just compete. I think that's like the biggest.

So play the game as opposed to goalie the game.

Correct. I like it. Yeah.

So I apologize then because I used to talk to you about technique nonstop. So Yeah. I mean I probably put it in your head a whole bunch of times. My bad.

I don't wanna be that guy, but, like, I had great seasons in Vancouver and everything, and then you and I became tight, and my game just, like, went

down the drain after that. Like, you were out of town. So, like, it's it can't fully be my fault.

Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No.

No. But But there's a

lesson there, joking aside. There's a a lesson there about because we've seen there's so many goalie schools and so much technique, and we're a big part of it at InGoal, right? Tools in the toolbox, but you can become obsessed with them sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like, that was the hardest part for me, I felt like, because I wanted to play the game a certain way, but my body wouldn't really allow me, I was just kinda chasing from there.

So, yeah. Lessons, as much as you're not playing anymore, having success. Lessons from goaltending that help you today, like things to survive at the highest level of the game mentally. Any advice there, or do you do you find it helps in business?

I don't know if it's goaltending specific, but I think that, like, I proved through to myself through hockey that that I can do whatever that I put my mind to. Right? And that's that's the same attitude that I bring in real estate now, and that has helped me tremendously, I think. And then from a goalie standpoint then, real estate is the same as goaltending because you need to have a very short memory, and and and you you get your wins and your losses and everything, but but but you're only as good as your ability to move forward to the next deal or in terms of goal, the next job.

You've done some coaching. I know you've done some camps. I remember you were at ASU for a while. What did you what do you see? What did you see then in young goaltenders coming up?

What do you like about coaching? What did you do differently as a coach from maybe some of the guys that you had? And and who did you lean on for advice at that? Like, because you had a lot of good coaches during your career.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the guy and I don't think there's any secrets there because I praised him so so much, right? But Rollie Melanson was like the guy that got me to the NHL, and he was the guy that kinda got me there as well. And and I really liked his goaltending coach style, like like we we worked extremely hard in practice just just so the games would turn out easier.

Like, the practices was always the hardest part because like, it was a grind. He he expected a lot from us. And he was kinda the one that got me to play to my strengths too. I mean, I wasn't the best skater out there, so he brought me back in the crease and just gave me a little bit more time to react to everything, and and and my years in ASU too. We have we have a six, he's like six seven or six eight goalie, Gibson Homer, and and I saw a lot of tendencies with him with stuff that I had gone through myself.

So I feel like we were just like a really good fit together there, which is reeling him back in in a little bit more, and then obviously college is a lot different because you can work a lot harder during the week because you only have two games a week and they're both on the weekend. So so I took a lot from Rollie with me to ASU a 100%.

What, like, give me a couple specifics. Like, I know Deb, like, one of his things is we always have to have blue eyes in front of our toe.

Yeah. It's the most expensive real estate in Vancouver, he always has. I love that. The blue crease. Yeah.

So I mean was that something that or did you, I mean if you have a smaller guy, did you have to depend on that a little bit during your coaching career? How does that Yeah. How'd you find that balance?

Yeah. We had another guy too, TJ Simpson Fielder, and he was a little bit small smaller guy, but an excellent skater. Right? So I had to adjust my coaching style to him then and make him feel comfortable with his reads everything. And and there is like a little bit of a give and take there between the goalie and the goalie coach and everything, but that's another thing when you're a goalie coach.

Like, I feel that you have to be able to adjust to the goalie that you have. You can't just have like everyone play the exact same way, in my opinion, and everyone just has their different strength and weaknesses, and you kinda just just gotta play on that.

Were there any other periods during your career where like, there any advice that like, when you're doing summer camp this summer, are there other things that have become staples for you that when you're working even with little kids or, you know, if your kids start playing themselves that, like, this is always going to be one of the things that I wanna share with goalies?

everything starts with the eyes and the head movement, and that's where where you are gonna become a better better, more fluent skater, and you are gonna make the difficult saves make more look more easy, you know?

Yeah. I think the puck track tracking, and I learned a lot of that from you and Lyle Mast and everyone, right, that helped me along the way. But but I wish that I was better had it when I played it too. I mean I understand a lot of it, and I think I understand a lot of it even better now when I'm not playing it, because I'm not in it, and I'm not too close to the problem almost, right? And on our camps, I mean, everything starts with the eyes and the head movement, and that's where where you are gonna become a better better, more fluent skater, and you are gonna make the difficult saves make more look more easy, you know?

Efficiency. Right? Efficiency.

Yeah. So I apologize for bringing this up. We don't have hockey at the highest level anymore in Arizona.

I'm gonna start crying. You still you still what? Like, still

watch it? Like, do you watch a lot of hockey? I know how busy you are and I know, like, real estate, you're killing it down there and it's a lot of work, but do you watch much? And who do you like to watch if so?

I have it on in, the backgrounds and stuff a lot. Obviously, Vancouver has a special place in my heart, and and and that's probably the the team that I like to follow the most. I think that Jersey with Markstrom now is is is really fun to watch as well, as well as the Utah guys because I came kinda close with those guys as well when they were there. So obviously, we we wish them the best, but I wish that they were still in Arizona too. So

Did you get to know Connor Ingram or Melka at all? Like, did you get to

know those guys a little bit? Not Connor, but the Melka a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And and and all of the players and everything and everything too. So yeah.

What about like, you watch your like, are like, is there goalies that you like to watch? Like, not not just guys you're cheering for because you know, but are there guys that like, hey, if this guy's on, that's the one I'm putting on in the background? Or now you're a sniper, so you just gotta

No. No. But I mean, you look at a guy like Igor Shesterkin, I mean that's like a guy that I really like to watch too, right? And talking about the efficiency and everything, I mean I saw a save, don't know if it was from yesterday or the day before because we were at the bar here, so I can't

The whole weekend's a little fuzzy,

It is a little blurred, so like, it might have been from Friday and it might have been from yesterday, but he made this like split save and like if that was me, I mean I would have been on my butt and just like scrambling to get back up, like it's almost like a transformer that just like makes a save and like uses the power in his legs and like somehow gets up, know? Like it's unbelievable.

He moves better from his knees than a lot of guys do for days.

Yes. A 100%, a 100%. And yeah, like for me, it's like fun to see guys do things that I couldn't really do that well myself. And I was very much more like a like a feel guy, but but but to see the athleticism and everything with these guys that are up there now, I mean, it's unbelievable. Guys you played with.

Talked about Markey. Yeah. Lou. Ryan Miller, Corey Schneider, Cam Ward. Give me some give me some lessons.

Give me some give me some lessons. Some guys that you played with it, I mean, Lou's in the hall of fame. Schneider had a heck of a career. Markey's still going. Henrik Lundqvist at the world championships. Yeah.

Give me a Henrik Lundqvist or give me a Henrik Lundqvist like that intensity on game day.

Anything like that before? You ever seen anyone even close? No.

No. And like, I mean, if you ask Heng, he he probably say that I was his least favorite backup that he had because he's just like so intense and I'm just like a ball of sunshine and like smiles, right? So no, it's I learned really quick that he didn't really wanna talk at all on game days, and that's fine, know? Like I played with Keith Kinkaid, and like we chatted in every intermission, he was eating his like pretzel with cheese dip and everything in every intermission, right? So it's there's so many different goalies out there, but Luuk liked to talk a lot too in their mission.

Okay. And and About the

game or just just keeping it loose on Both. Other Both.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And Millcie was was like, kinda like to talk but it was more about the game with like him or like his his equipment failures and everything that he was going through.

Did you ever ask you to stitch something up for him in between periods?

Oh my god, like my best Milsie story is we were in Toronto and he had his his gear rep and everything there, right? And he just got a brand new blocker with like the design on the blocker because it's not like just like a straight white one, it had like some pattern on it, and he thought that the puck bounced weird off of the pattern on the blocker.

Because it's the pattern is stitched in and that means

But there's it's like it's like it's like a half half of a half of a millimeter and like we were just so different in terms of the equipment and everything because I just play what the gaming, right? But yeah.

But stylish.

But stylish. Yes. Yes. Yes. Always.

It had to look good for the gram. That was it.

A shout out to Brian's and Chris Jaws react. Yep. Their rep at the time. Did did you take any did you take anything away? Like, what what did you take away from Ryan Miller, for example?

Ryan Miller, probably the same that I would, like, take take away from, like, Lou. I mean, both those guys were just such extreme competitors and they're they're they're just winners to the core. Right? And and to just be around that and like see how you should behave in like the locker room and everything. Like like, Milton, I played very differently too.

I mean, he was more of a go out and Yeah, a little more flow. Flow, drifting a little bit, like always in motion, right? When when me to play my best game was like more stop and start all the time.

A little more inside out, a little more like, hey.

Yeah yeah, exactly. So but yeah, like what a competitor and yeah, like when I think back about the goalies that I played with, I mean, I was just so fortunate to play with that many legends of the game, you know? Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's funny though. I I hadn't really thought of this till you brought it up, but you mentioned Ryan's competitiveness. You mentioned Roberto's competitiveness. We all know what a competitor, Mark.

Yeah.

Is that is that the is that one of the ingredient? Like, when you whether it's kids or your time at NCAA coaching, like, is do you think that competitiveness as much as we think it should be innate in everyone, is that what separates some of these?

A 100%. A 100%. And and and and like, loved playing with marquee too, obviously. I mean, we we played together in in in Greenness in Sweden and then like a little bit in in in Vancouver. He's obviously kinda tried to copy my career with like going wherever that I've been, even though his numbers are a little bit better wherever he goes.

But but no, he's he's we like kinda grew up together, know, and and to go through all of this as like two guys from Sweden that grew up like an hour away from each other. It's pretty cool.

I'm gonna let

you go.

We'll end it with that. The actually, I can ask the competitor. No. No. It's gotta be an a?

Yes. When you were coaching, could you try and drive it out of guys? No.

I truly believe that it's something you either have or you don't. And I think that the competitiveness was what got me to the NHL and, like, play at the highest level. And I think all guys that make it to that level have that, every single one.

No, no. I thought that I could, maybe I'm just the but but but I truly believe that it's something you either have or you don't. And I think that that I don't think that I was the best goalie with the best technique out there or anything, but I think that like the competitiveness was what got me to the NHL and, like, play at the highest level. And I think all guys that make it to that level have that, every single one.

The other one the other one one I wanted to touch on is is reads. Anticipation processing, Yeah. Connecting the patterns as Mitch said. Yeah. Is that another thing that is either innate or not, or is that one you think you can learn and teach whether through experience or with video?

I think you can learn with experience and video with the reads and stuff. Yes. Yes. A 100%. It's it's that's like the kind of stuff that you work on a day to day basis with your goalie.

Right? And and and it's definitely something that you can teach. So

Okay. That's teachable, but it is Yeah. And there's the lesson today. Eddie, thank you so much for spending the time. After a long couple of days on the ice

I don't if you can hear my voice, but it's a little bit Oh,

I mean, there was might have been a couple late nights connected to the long couple of days on the ice, but I appreciate you, hanging in here.

Thank you for

having You and Roberto have something else in common. You've now done the InGoal Radio Podcast in the car.

Yeah. But but now we don't don't have one thing in common that he has a cup and I don't. So

We'll work on that.

Yeah.

Like, two references to business in this episode. The ProReads with Alex Lyon making the business decision and Eddie Lack parlaying some of his experience as an athlete into the world of business and real estate.

Yeah. And the need to move on. Right? How many times have we talked about it to reset and move on? There's gonna be wins.

There's gonna be failures. And probably ties in a little bit to the parent segment as well. Right? Like, do you blame others, or do you accept responsibility and move on? And so in business, as in goaltending, in Eddie's case, real estate, but he's not a just sell houses guy in real estate.

He does a lot of big picture development, has a lot of investors internationally, including up here in Vancouver. He has done very well, I'm told, in both worlds, and it was interesting to hear him sort of find the common bonds and also the belief for him that comes with having made it to maybe he didn't have the NHL career that at one point it looked like he might or that he ultimately wanted, but for a window there, he was a number one goaltender in a tough market. This This is a guy who started the outdoor game in Vancouver ahead of Roberto Luongo. This is a guy who won a world championship with Sweden. This is a guy who for for a long time was one of the 60 top best goaltenders in the world playing in the National Hockey League.

And the belief that instills that you can do anything when you've accomplished that was another lesson. So I really enjoyed the conversation. I always enjoy spending time with Eddie. And so on a weekend where he was very much being pulled in a lot of different directions from people he hadn't seen as well as obviously the demands of the charity appearance and playing four games in two days even though he's no longer a goalteller. So a little easier on him than it was on us, to make time for us and and catch a ride back with us to the hotel to do this episode.

It was much appreciated and much enjoyed by me.

So Eddie doesn't play goal anymore?

No. Come on. None of them do. Kirk McLean was my defenseman in the all star game. Did a hell did a hell of a job too.

I heard him say on the radio that he was gonna outscore Ryan Kesler. How'd that go?

Well, I will say that as Eddie referenced in our interview there, he didn't get one on me, And Ryan Kesler definitely got one on me. When I said I gave up seven, I think one was to him and five others were to people he passed to because I was paying too much attention to him. My teammates over at Sports Net kinda hung me out to dry, Daren. They didn't tell me this. The second period started, and Kessler was out for the opening face off and had cut a deal whereby they would they would drop the puck and everybody would just stop and he would skate in on a breakaway, but nobody let me know.

So let's be perfectly honest. I'm not stopping Ryan Kesler on a breakaway, but I had no idea what the hell was coming because all of a sudden he's skating in and I and nobody else is moving. I'm like, is this has the period actually started? And so I was a little deeper in my net. And and again, truth be told, he's scoring a 100 out of a 100.

He went top glove with a wrist shot. It's now a day and a half later, and I'm still not sure my glove has moved.

Did you blame your d?

No. Again, I think I'll accept responsibility on that one despite being hung out to dry. The simple reality is and I've played against ex NHLers in in this type of format before. Kess may be the biggest one. Like, just the sheer size of him still, and he still has that stride.

Beyond the penalty shot, just to see him coming down the wing a couple of times, you know, where he put in a couple of semi hard strides and to see the reach and the wingspan and the size of the man was not intimidating because it's not an environment you're gonna be intimidated by it, but very much at the same time also a little bit intimidating. It was really fun and good to see him and a number of Canucks that came back. The Canucks Autism Network does great work in the community here in BC, and the alumni do a great job of supporting this event. And I was really honored to be a part of it. We did some good fundraising things with some jerseys and stuff.

And and as a team, raised close to 50,000, and I was able to contribute close to eight of that. So I'm really proud of everyone that came together and and helped raise some money for a great cause. Over $1,000,000 raised on the weekend.

Outstanding stuff. Way to go. Woody, that's that's marvelous. I'm just a little disappointed that we got people like Kirk and Eddie who are former goaltenders playing defense, and here's Doug. Doug's been waiting the entire episode to chat with us.

Doug Melvin, mid sixties, still going, spanning so many eras and trucking. Thank you, Doug, for supporting us and continuing the fight.

And thank you, Doug, for reaching out to us because it was our audience. This is no credit. I did not go sleuthing on this. This is 100% the InGoal Radio Podcast audience hearing the interview hearing us talk and knowing Doug and sending him notes that, hey. We brought him up and we talked about his exploits and him reaching out to us and actually correcting a few things.

Like, all the articles about him have him listed as 61, but he was 65. And nothing mentions the history that he got into with us, including being an e bug at a very young age. I'll let him explain it for the Philadelphia Flyers. This is a fascinating story with a fascinating goaltender who frankly, again, should inspire everyone, inspires the hell out of me to keep going and keep the passion alive to play.

Thank heavens there's no mandatory retirement age from the goalie union or 65 year old Doug wouldn't have been an E BUG the other week. Right. Fair. I love I love looking at his hockey DB. It's got about the longest list of teams I've ever seen on there, but the vast majority of them, of course, in recent years are zero appearances because he's debugged on so many teams.

What a neat story.

Well, and if you're looking for it, if you check the site, the the website at ingoalmag.com where we have the article and then the audio attached to it from his interview, we kinda dug a little deeper in the written word too. Based on this interview, you can't check HockeyDB. You gotta check Elite prospects because that's where you get the full list. Over at HockeyDB, for some reason, you only get a handful of them. If you check out Elite Prospects, it is a long, long list.

And as Doug tells us in the NHL Sense Arena feature interview, it's missing a few as well. There's some there's other stops that aren't covered.

You guys do an amazing job lining up incredibly interesting people to talk to. I have never been more excited about an interview than this one. It just speaks to our love for the game and those of us that are later in years and still trying to play at at at some level that is is beyond us, but Doug keeps on doing it. It's the InGoal Radio NHL Sense Arena feature interview on InGoal Radio, the podcast.

Feature Interview 2 - Doug Melvin

Can't tell you how excited I am to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. A listener, as I understand it, somebody's listened to us in the past, Doug Melvin, who we talked about last week after his Ebug appearance, another Ebug appearance.

Another. Yeah. One of And

somebody reached out to you, and you reached out to us. And first off, it sounds like we got a whole bunch of facts wrong on the way we presented it, including your age. So I'm just gonna open the floor. Your history and goal. You have played since you were five.

I wanna get into all on like, just lay it on us.

Yeah. I have. I have. I actually started it's funny. The the E Bug thing is kind of how I started my hockey, honestly, quite frankly.

Really?

Started at five, lived in Philadelphia, just North of Philadelphia on the East Coast, and played street hockey and then, you know, loved it and decided this is what I wanna do with my life. I wanna play hockey forever. Right? Loved it. Played goalie.

And at at 14, I was playing juniors in the Philadelphia area, Philadelphia Firebirds. And I and I remember a guy by name of Marcel Peltier, who was director of player personnel for the Flyers. They must have seen me play in some of my junior games locally. And he came to me and he said and to my father and said, hey. You know, from time to time, we need a goalie for practice.

Can, you know, can we get Doug to come out? I'm like, yeah. Sure. So, you know, I I I here I am 14, you know, just started playing junior hockey, doing really, really well. But, occasionally, we'd practice with the Philadelphia Flyers when they didn't have time to get a goalie for practice.

Somebody wanted a maintenance day or now that I know kind of the more you know, now they've been all through this stuff. Right? When I was 14, I was like, wow. Okay. Great.

They need a goalie for the day. That's awesome. So I would I would take my equipment to school with me, and, they would come get me and then go I'd go to practice and and sometimes go back to school and sometimes not, but, I won't go into that.

But I could picture the note. Please excuse Doug. He's busy practicing with the Philadelphia Flyer.

Yeah. The the the problem with those notes, they continued even without sometimes my parents did not know I was doing that, so it was kinda continued from there. But might have taken a ton of liberties, but I think the school kinda knew what was going on, and they were okay with everything. And and school was not that challenging for me, so it was it was pretty pretty good. And I knew what I wanted to do, and what better place to do it.

Right? Getting a chance to play with practice with NHL players. So it was really nice. Really cool.

Well, I mean, you're 14 years old. The equipment,

like old.

Right? I didn't come to the game till the equipment protected us. This is you're 14 years old in an era where it didn't, and these are the best shooters in the world.

Yeah. Yeah. What's that like? Yeah. Because I don't know, Kevin, I don't know that that you that could happen now.

Right? I think it was just the luck of the whole, you know, situation. Right? You know, they didn't move goalies around frequently. Right?

And they you know, for them to get somebody to get practice because it was short notice, it would have been tough. They would have had just one goalie for practice. And so, you know, you could see that as a so it's just a you know, whatever. Just a great opportunity and took advantage of it. Right?

And then that continued through the summers with the guys who would stick around, and they were nice to me. And they said, oh, you can skate with us in the summer. Great. Okay. Fantastic.

You know, it's the as you probably know, Kevin, it's the, know, inevitable search for quality ice time, right, as a goalie that you constantly do throughout your entire life. Right? And I still do it. Right? And I'm still in search of, you know, the best ice time you can get with the best shooters and just to perfect your craft.

Right? And and do those things. So I had that wonderful opportunity and then finished playing juniors, and Flyers invited me to training camp for a for a job. So, you know, here I am 17, just graduated high school and off to Portland, Maine for the rookie camp for the Philadelphia Flyers that year and playing some NHL preseason games and did really, really well. I gotta shut out my first game, play against Boston, and and shut them out, so it was nice.

And then kept playing. And they had too many goalies. They had told me before I went to camp, look. We, you know, we got we we're booked with goalies right now, but come to camp. Let's see.

And they they did they did great for me. They took care of me. They sent me to their American League affiliate to play some games, and they sent me to an EHL team to play a game. And so it was a great season, a great way for me at 17, way way too young to be there, quite frankly. You know, now I look back to it.

It's just a it was a tough experience in terms of just yeah. You know, you're 17.

17 years old, and everybody else is full grown adult.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it's hard because you go you know, I went from the rookie camp to the main camp, and here I am, you know, really competing for jobs people I've watched on TV for, you know, mine literally as a child. You know? Honestly.

So, you know, it was this reality thing, and I'm seeing players. One day they're there, and the next day they're not. And it was kind of a reality of a wake up call in terms of just the the hard start of the hard side of the business, right, and and being, you know, part of all of that. And yeah. So

No. There was when we're we're doing our very, like, on the fly quick research after the latest e bug appearance and some of the headlines it generated, I read one that, one of your camps I don't if it that one or if you went to subsequent camps with the Flyers, one of your fellow goalies was Jerry Price, Carey's dad.

Yeah. It was. Yeah. It was. Yeah.

It was. You know, and it yes. And it was just yeah. Talk about just strange stuff, and it's funny. All these guys and that, you know, and then I, you know, after after I finished with the flyers, the Bruins liked me a lot.

So they brought me to training camp, and I went with them. And I I did it because I just absolutely loved Jerry Cheevers at the time, and he was the coach of the of Boston when I was there. And he liked me a lot, and I liked him, and I, know, we played a kinda similar similar style. Same mask from Ernest Higgins, by the way. But, anyway yeah.

I just love that. And but through through either the the Flyers experience or the Bruins experience, you know, there were people that, you you know, I continually do to came across again and reconnected with. You know, either I had roomed with this person or, you know, I knew them and they knew me, and they went on to be either coaches or general managers of teams. Right? And just just an ex just yeah.

Just just really good. So people knew me, and when there was an opportunity, you know, they called me, which was really nice. And so, you know, I've done been with it's funny. With the exception of the COVID year, it's been consecutive every single year. You know, COVID was a weird year where you couldn't you know, you just couldn't you couldn't bring anybody in, right, unless you're original.

Right? But, yeah, it's been consecutive since, you know, 1978. I'm gonna date myself here all the way through to present. Right? And so if you do the math in that one, it's, yeah, it's interesting.

I'll put it that way.

So what are some of the like,

some of like,

is hockey such a small world? Like, I'm trying to imagine some of the names that you would have skated with back then and had these experiences with that, you know, that our listeners would resonate with our listeners.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, Bobby Clark, Bernie Parent. It's like Bernie Parent became a good good, mentor to me. He really did.

I've heard of him.

Yeah. It's just a good good you know, what a great guy and what a great person and just giving back to the community, and he helped me tremendously. And so Bernie Parent, and there's Jerry Cheevers again once, you know, him. Just a lot of players, like Craig McTavish and stuff, and think guys that I roommate with that I was in there and together with for in training camp with and, you know, got this bond over time. And it's funny.

I'll run into him or I'll hear from him occasionally, and it's just yeah. It's pretty good. So I I can't complain about that. You know? I think the I think the big thing was it was similar work ethics.

Right? You would you were you know, it was all it's interesting because in 1978, one could say perhaps the players that have been in NHL, the physical preparation might not be the same as it is today. It's changed a lot. I'll put it that way. Right?

In terms of, you know, just the off season and, you know, people

would Yep.

You know, it you know, unheard of now to go to training camp without playing all summer, right, to get ready for training camp and stuff. Right? You would you would that wouldn't work. But but Right.

Well, training camp used to be a month, they would get in shape at you.

Get in shape during training camp. Right? And, you know, I would never do that, but I'd be like, what do you mean I'm not doing this? I'm showing up in shape. You know, I'm doing anyway, you know, you show up ready to go.

But, yeah, those kind of things have changed. And the people who shared similar values that I did in terms of that of just, you know, how you conducted yourself, how you played, how you did all these things. Right? Yeah. Good anyway, you know, lifelong lifelong friends.

Put it that way.

What where did the career go for you from a like, in terms of when did it come go from something you were pursuing from a career standpoint to a passion that you just never let go of while doing other things?

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think it was after so it was after Boston, and I had I had kind of two or three years after being with them and just going around the system and playing and and doing well. And I was just you know, I had been playing since I was five, and I think at that point, I just got I won't say burnt out, but just needed a break.

Right? And I found myself in fact, my parents had always told me before, you know, they were when the Flyers came to him, when Marcel Peltier and the flyers came to him and said, hey. We wanna bring him to camp, and we, you know, we think really high of him, and look at this is all the things that could happen to him and all this. And my parents were like, no. No. We want him to go to college. You You know, he can do whatever he wants after that, but he's gonna go to, you know, he's gonna go to college. And I didn't. Right? I I, out of high school, luckily graduated high school because of the amount of time I was playing hockey constantly.

Right? And I found myself in fact, my parents had always told me before, you know, they were when the Flyers came to him, when Marcel Peltier and the flyers came to him and said, hey. We wanna bring him to camp, and we, you know, we think really high of him, and look at this is all the things that could happen to him and all this. And my parents were like, no. No. We want him to go to college. You You know, he can do whatever he wants after that, but he's gonna go to, you know, he's gonna go to college. And I didn't. Right? I I, out of high school, luckily graduated high school because of the amount of time I was playing hockey constantly.

And so I'd finished with the Bruins, and I said, you know what? I'm gonna I'm getting a little brain dead, so to speak. And I went and got a degree, degree in accounting. So I went to college, took a break from hockey instead. And at that time and I and I think it's probably somewhat true today, but goalies mature later.

Right? And I I don't know if you've heard that expression, but, you know, it would be like yeah. You know, it 17, too young. Right? Too young to be playing in the NHL for sure, and and the goal is mature later.

Right? And it takes time to develop those crafts, and it takes time to to really understand just all the mechanics of what you need to do. Right? And then to be able to perfect that. Right?

And so, you know, I was like, gosh. You know what? I'll go get a four year degree, and I will come back to hockey, and I'll be more mature. And I'm in great shape, not a problem, and off I go. So I go to go to that.

And while in school, I be I just was pretty patriotic in terms of wanting to pay my country back for all the wonderful opportunities I had. So I did ROTC and thought, you know what? I'll do just three years in the military, pay my country back for kind of the wonderful things I've had and opportunities in hockey. And then I'll go back and start playing hockey again. And I was in great shape, so I didn't feel any, you know, any issue in terms of that or being away from the game.

So that's what I did. And then when I came back, I started to got caught up in the NHL strike. Couldn't do anything. Right? Got got caught up in that one after I started when I the year I chose to come back and and start to play again was the year of the NHL strike, and that was a tough one because I had stopped doing the military and resigned my commission as an officer and got out and said, great.

I'm gonna this is what I'm gonna do. Go back. And and I was had contemplated going to camp with Tampa, and Phil was at Boston when I was there, and Phil and Tony bought the right? Tampa Bay. Right?

And so that was an option for me. And and then I'm sitting around waiting for the season to start. You know? And it's you know, training camp should start late August and, you know, early September, and it's still not happening. And I'm just sitting around waiting, and you can't do anything.

Right? You're you're just waiting, right, thinking it'll end quickly. And it didn't. Right? It went all the way through.

And so that so I literally lost that season in terms of was, like, January or February, if I remember correctly, when finally it sorted itself out, but it was there was nothing to be done there. So so that kind of put in a different light of terms of just, okay. You know? And then I would get people even that season to ask. I think it was Huntington the Huntington Blizzard that they asked.

I said, okay. Great. You know, I'll do that. In ECHL, and then there were other teams that asked for help, and I would just start doing that. I was like, oh, okay.

This is this is kinda fun. I'm enjoying this. It's great. I'm playing again. It's but it's the and I don't know if you go through this too, but it's the you know, it takes me, like, three days of practice with pro players to get back to normal.

Like, to get to where I'm like, okay. I feel normal doing this again. Right? You know, you get that, you know because, you know, if you're not doing it every day, it's you have this little hard it's difficult. Right?

It's not as easy as it just you come off the bench and you do it. So this, you know, the e bug stuff, right, is is challenging. Right? I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel, one, I could contribute, two, that I could do it. Right?

If I didn't feel like I could do it and it was you know, I I wouldn't do it because it's these are important games to others, not just myself. And if I can't contribute both on the ice and off the ice, then then I have no business doing that. But so far, so good. You know, I feel good. I feel I almost feel like I have an advantage because I've seen I've seen the evolution of these changes in sticks, right, which impacts the pucks.

I've seen the evolution of changing equipment, the evolution of changes in the physical training that players go through. Right? I've been through all of those things. I've seen all that. I've seen the changes in goaltending that have occurred over the course of years from stand up to butterfly to, you know, kind of a hybrid thing and all these different things.

Right? And and I've been able to kinda take what I think are the best of all those things and and the experiences of all those things and apply it to where I am today given the physical body I have in terms of all those. You know, I'm not six five. You know? So so you know?

Yeah. So I'm not six five, but, but it you know, five five eight, that was that was welcomed in 1978 and and actually encouraged and and no issue, but it probably is not as favored today. Right? But it you know, to me, it comes down to to angles. And and the other you know, the I've taken a kind of a, I'll say, studious approach to goaltending in terms of just, you know, breaking things down.

You know, when it comes down to me, in my mind, and this is just just me, is kind of math and science. Right? Math, the angle portion of playing goaltending. And science, the physics of it, meaning, obviously, emotions tends to stay in motion. Just all these things that you do to, you know, to to to that deal with that, complement that with things that mentally you can do.

You know? Not it's working on reflexes, understanding how reflexes work, whether they're the short twitch or the long you know, it's just all these things. If you study those things, you can gain gain a lot of insight into how things work, and you can kinda capitalize on those things. And I've taken advantage of all those things. Right?

Taking advantage of every bit of it in terms of just applying that to me and the changes that you go through in terms of years you know, just years playing. So I think it's I think I have that advantage. You know? So if there's one thing out of all of that in terms of just age and all that, you know, it's just that that I've seen this this evolution evolution over time, right, of how things have changed in the game and and been able to to really prepare for that, capitalize on that, take advantage of it, and and then encouraged and excited about those changes. Right?

These changes from wood sticks to carbon. Right? And and and all those things in between. Amazing. What an amazing thing for the game.

What an amazing challenge for goalies to have to do that because shooting changed completely. Right? As you know. Right? And and players shoot differently now than they did thirty years ago, ten years ago.

Right? As these sticks have changed, the shooting techniques have changed. And if you don't understand those things or capitalize on those things, then you couldn't really do this at at least I couldn't do it anymore at a level that I wanna do this at. And you know? But, you know, for the love of the game, Kevin.

Right? I mean, do it for the game and for just yeah. You know, giving back to the community, giving back to hockey that that has done so much for your life, and that's how I look at it. And, you know, when I play with these teams, all the all the ebook, all the long list of teams and and Elite Prospects doesn't have them all. I'm like, oh, you missed you missed a bunch in there, but, anyway, it doesn't matter.

But, you know,

like how many? Like and how often still? Like, the the recent one got headlines. And I said, like you said, they said you were age 61. They didn't even have the year right.

Right. Right.

Like, is this pretty much every year since you said? Like like Yeah. It's close to it?

It has. But it's not just it's not just the games. Like, all

Practices too.

Spend a week practicing with them. Right? And doing like, I with the Steelheads this season, I was in training camp for three days. You know? They only had one goalie, so I did training camp with them.

Right? Two a days. You know? And, you know, and training camp is I love that. Right?

But most people say, what do mean? Oh my god. Training camp, two a days. Right? And they're hard.

They're not, you know, they're not they're not easy. Right? But I love it. You know? I feel great at the end of three days.

Like, damn. I feel normal. This is really good. But, anyway yeah. So so it's usually like, when I totaled up the end of the season, like, I'll like, with the Idaho Steelheads, in particular, it'd be two months of the season over the course of all this when you totaled up a week here, a week there, three days here.

You know, the typical Wednesday, Friday, Saturday set is like a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. You know, we consider that a week. The visiting teams, I get the same thing, like, a week with them, spend time. Some of the teams, you know, they want me to come with them when they go on the road. If they're going nearby, like, they'll, you know, like, a couple teams did that for me.

Hey. Can we sign you a game? Please come with us that, you know, we'll get you a game. And I was like, yeah. Like, when I was gonna do that, and it was last season.

It was Newfoundland, and and they had left Idaho, and they were going to Utah, and they and they wanted to come with him. I said, yeah. I could do that. Happy to do it. And and then some then their one of their goalies got returned that night, and and was like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said too. Right? You know, I wanna play, but I don't wanna play where because if somebody got hurt, I don't wanna play for the other reasons.

Right? So but I, you know, I come with a mentality that, you know, I'm I'm gonna play. Like, I was going to start, and I don't. And but that doesn't matter. At some point, I need to go in, then, you know, I take it seriously.

And if I don't so yeah.

For the rest of us, advice on just being able to play at six like, never mind two a days, but being able to continue to play and play at this level at at age 65. Like, you obviously I read one of the articles. There was a a Jack LaLanne comparison. You've obviously taken good care of yourself.

I think that was Texas or Saros Dallas goalie coach or somewhere one of the Texas coaches. I don't know. Dallas coach or something. Anyway yeah. I you know, it's what you it's what you we chatted with before, Kevin.

I mean, you it's like anything else. Right? You have to prepare for it, and you have to, you know, you have to do those things that you know you need to do, and and that changes over time. And that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.

And that means, you know, if you if you understand the skills you need necessary to play, right, reflexes, flexibility, strength, right, leg, arm, all these different things, strength in those areas. Right? Then you, you know, you can you can train those things. Right? And if you I think it's just it's funny.

I think it's just all in the head. When you say, oh, you're 65, like, that's a number. It doesn't mean anything to me. I don't really care. Right?

It doesn't absolutely doesn't mean a thing to me. You know, there's days when I was, you know, in my twenties, and I had a hard practice that I didn't feel that great, and the same now. But but or days I the vice versa. I feel great after a, you know, a great escape with with you know, now, and think back and, damn, I'm feeling stronger than I did when I was 20 doing that. Right?

Because that's probably not the case. But, anyway but I'll I'll convince myself that. But I I think I think, you know, as we know, a large part of goaltending is is with the mind. Right? Dismantle.

Right? The ability to concentrate, the ability to push out things that have nothing to do with what you're doing at the present moment. Right? To be in that moment. I loved your I love the podcast on Smile.

I loved how much you guys were doing the other day. Right? And and, yeah, that's what it is. Right? It's it's for the love of the game, enjoying that, but being present in the moment and and not allowing distractions, whether it be muscle aches, age, whatever these things are, to me, they're irrelevant.

They mean absolutely nothing. And and so when I play, you know, muscle memory for date myself now, sixty years, I guess, anyway, of doing these things. Right? Even though my style has has progressed and changed, I'm not doing the same things that that I was doing. I mean, the goaltending has changed because Right.

The play has changed and players have changed. Right? So we've needed to change. And some of them I agree with and some I don't, and, and some I don't do. One, because my size.

Right? I'm five eight, and that makes a difference. I'm not six five. So

Yeah. You're not tuck tucking inside the post in a reverse at five eight.

There's a there's a lot of space for you and me if we do that.

100%. Right? You know? And when you think about it, you know, you stand on the goal line and you take up a third of the net. Well, you got two thirds two thirds to deal with.

Right? Take a couple steps out, and you're you're in a better situation. Right? So to the top of your crease, you're you're much better off. Right?

Or a little bit further if, you know, a player is head down, they're gonna shoot. You know, you can make it really easy on yourself, that kind of stuff. Right? Which I still get away with. You know?

I get or you give them a you give them, you know, you know, good players. If you give them something, they'll they're they're not as smart sometimes, and they'll do that. Right? So so I do a lot of glove saves and windmill, a lot of guys in in practice and things, and they're like, what the heck? What are you doing anyway?

Having fun.

The art of baiting. Like, I play with I play with a guy that that played some overseas. He's a little older than me, and he tell tell me all the time. I came to it late, but he'll always say, like, Kev, just show them a little bit as they come over the line, and then they'll shoot there. And I'm like and I always say to him, I'm like, Billy, I'm just trying to stay in the middle at all times here. Like, I like, I'll psych myself out.

You know? I'll show them something and then go the other way. But young kids, the younger ones come up and it messes with them. So do you have a little fun with some old school and some of these kids sometimes?

I absolutely do. I absolutely do. And I think that's some advantage too because they're used to goalies not doing the things I do. Right? And, you know, and I it's funny because I'd have some of the coaches some of these guys for the Steelheads, I I practice with them quite a bit, so when they need it.

And I had some of their coaches who just, you know and I know Dougie comes out, and he's gonna, you know, he's gonna come out and cut down the angle. You don't you worry about that. You just go ahead and shoot anyway or you do this or you do that. Right? And it's like, you know, just don't you know?

Because a lot of goalies don't. You know? They don't. They stay you know? And they can if they're huge, taking up huge amounts of space.

Right? But us guys that are not that have to have really, really good reflexes, have to have really, really good gloves. You know, your catchy glove and your blocker are your friend big time, right, with our size, right, in terms of not just self preservation of protecting yourself, but, you know, you're covering a lot of ground with those. At least I am. At least I'm doing that.

Covering a lot of ground with that stuff. Right?

Yeah. No. I saw I saw one of the articles, and I referenced it when we were talking about it on the podcast, but I quickly added the caveat. Hey. This article's four or five years old, so who knows if it's still true because everything evolves.

But they they used to nickname you the challenger in part because you're stepping up. Now how is that a little is that to an extreme? Because it's funny because as I was saying it, I'm like, I feel like this has been overcooked in this article.

Yeah. Totally. Totally. It was it so it's funny. It was, Derek Laxdol, who was a coach who's was a coach in American League Texas.

Right? He had been in Idaho and and Yep. And had gone to Texas in the American League. And I guess somebody asked him in an interview about me, and they were they were doing something within the Dallas organization, the interview an article on me anyway. And he said, yay.

He comes out and challenges, man. Sometimes I see him come out, like, 20 feet. I don't know about that one. But but I but I you know, it's it's, you know, when the play just forms just right, right, where that shooter has nothing else to do, you know, either in a they're in a game situation or a place where they're expected to shoot, expected to score, and they're in a and and the form and what's happening in front of you just forms perfectly where if you come out and take to cut down that angle, they have nothing to shoot at. And they have to shoot.

Right? And they're hoping for a rebound, but if you're kinda mister Velcro and, you know, kinda hold on to everything and and control those rebounds, so there's not much that comes from that. Right? So I think that's kind of that's probably more what he's talking about. You know?

20 feet away from the crease might be a little dangerous. Right? Unless we put out to play the puck, now that I do. I I did that really, really well and would do that really well. So

What so how would you describe your game? Sorry. How would you like, what would be the description now? Because you've played through all these eras. How much of the new stuff have you taken?

How much of the old stuff's still there?

That's interesting. You know, it's funny because when I was with the Flyers, goalie coach was Jacques Plante. Right? And he he was like, you know, hey. You know, you you stay on your feet.

I don't want you to go down. You're not doing that. And I would. You know? And it was a little bit of a struggle I had with him.

He was he was wonderful and just trying to help me, but it was but I had gotten there for a reason. I had gotten to to the the to camp with the Flyers for a reason. That was a style that I had. Right? And that meant, at times when I needed to, I would go down, and I'd make pad saves, but I control my rebounds, and I'd go where I wanted to.

And I was able to do that really, really well. And he wanted none of that. He wanted skate saves, and he wanted, you know, those type of things. Right? Which was great, which was fine, and I could do that.

That's not a problem. I still do some of that. Right? I'll still have the occasional skate save because just just for just for fun, frankly, because it's not it's not the most efficient way to do stuff now. But but I have taken license to take things from the different eras of the things I thought were that are really, really good.

Right? Some of the things they do, you know, and and not do some of the things that I that don't work for me. Right? I'm not a boy that's gonna get down to my knees along the coast and wait for somebody to shoot over. You know, I I give too much for over my shoulder and and next to my head.

Right? So that doesn't work for me. So I have to stay up on those scenarios. So I kinda but, you know, little things, I mean, little things have changed over time where I've seen them work really, really well. Right?

Can can you give me an example?

Yeah. So instead of staying you know, it used to be, you know, the the the thought was you you would be you know, if the puck's in the corner, you would be on the goal line. Your skates would be on the goal line. Now you're kinda curling out a little bit, and you're doing that, which is which is better, which I think is is much, much better. One, both for visibility, but two, I think you're in a much better position to make the save doing that.

Right? That's one example. I think the other you know, I I would do two pad stacks a lot when I was playing or, you know, a long time ago. I'll do them occasionally just to mess with people, but just for fun, just to practice. Like, when I know I can get I when I know I can pull it off, and it's just it's good for morale, I think, for the team anyway.

Right? That's one example. I think the other you know, I I would do two pad stacks a lot when I was playing or, you know, a long time ago. I'll do them occasionally just to mess with people, but just for fun, just to practice. Like, when I know I can get I when I know I can pull it off, and it's just it's good for morale, I think, for the team anyway.

But but that that that probably doesn't work the best now. Right? So you're not doing those type of things. So I've kinda taken some of those things out of the game that you would have been a regular to do, quite frankly. The poke check's a little aggressive.

You know, I've kept it's funny. The the poke check where you can put your stick down and you can catch the puck and curl it and bring it back to you, you know, on, you know, on on on the proper side. On a player that's trying to cut in front, going real too way too fast, barely has the puck and trying to cut in front of the net, you can eat an easy poke check to get that thing back to you. Right? And it works.

I don't no one else does that anymore, but I

still lost start?

I I get away with it. I I'll do it in practice quite a bit, these guys. And they'll be like, darn. You know? Anyway, so those little things, kinda stuff like that.

But

What what modern elements have you had? Like, do you like, you said even back in the day, you had an element of butterfly to your game, and you got a

I did.

You got a chocolat telling you to stand up.

But Yeah. Tell me.

You know?

Do you

as the equipment's evolved, do you do you slide? Do you recover from your knees and do those butterfly movements now?

I do. I can, and I do. I don't I don't slide on my knees, so that's and and this is just my personal preference and something that I don't like, I see what has worked for me, and it's interesting you say that because the one thing I think is is pretty critical, I spent a lot of time trying to be you know, what I believe is the goalie is best skater on the team. Right? You are you have to be.

Right? And to do that, I think figure skaters are exceptional in skating. That's all they do, and you can learn an enormous amount from them. So I spent, you know, from as soon as I was starting starting skating, working with figure skaters and teaching me how to skate and goalie equipment in my pads and goalie skates. Right?

And doing these things, working on figure eights and scribes and doing three turns and just learning my edge and doing all these things. But I learned that that which I think is very, very applicable to goaltending even today, and that is that playing goal is from the waist down. Right? Your movements is all from the waist down. And and as Jacques Plante would say or any other goalie coach that I've had throughout my career or later, you know, you're quiet from you're quiet from the waist up.

Your arms, you're quiet. Right? They're not going all over the place. You're not doing unnecessary movements. You're not doing all these things that that you don't need to do.

Right? And I think so one of the the new things I see a lot of goalies doing, they're taking that slide, and they're just sliding over their pads all the way across, then they're doing that. And I don't do that. I still do the the standard, you know, I'll slide. I just side step three you know, t t pushes, those type of things, and getting from one eight one point to another.

Right? But so I've kept some of those things that I think are, to me for me and for my strengths and and are better. But

Well, that's where but we hear Yeah. Guys in the NHL now talking about the return of that where kids will slide, where they're like, hey. Everything is about beating as much as I can as often as I can. It's about beating plays up on my skates and getting square.

Yeah. And getting square. Yeah. A 100%. Right?

You're getting square. You're making saves. You know, if you can get back to your feet, do it. Right? You don't stay you know, you know, don't be lazy and stay on your knees.

Right? If you can if you can make that save and learn to control rebounds from that position or tie that puck up, whether it's on your blocker into your chest, all these different things. Right? Great. That's what you need to be doing.

But you're right. The the I see it's funny because I see the same thing. I see a lot of kids that just do these slides unnecessarily because I think that's what they think they should do, but I'm like, wait a minute. That's it doesn't really you know, it's unnecessary. And and on your feet, make that save.

I mean, the desperation stuff when you have to, you do what you do, and you you hope for the best. Right? But and, hopefully, that's not too often. But but you yeah. Yeah.

It's it's interesting. So I I think I've tried to take some of the current stuff and over the years and apply it to how I play and see if it can benefit, you know, my ability to do the job that much better.

So What what's the what's the best equipment evolution in your time that you've seen? What do you what do you what could you not live without now? I I I guess the mask improvements will be an obvious one, but outside of that.

Yeah. The yeah. Outside the mask, like I said, the plastic shock punches not even form fitted. You know? Wow.

I look back at that now. Would I do that now? I don't know. I don't know.

I couldn't imagine.

Yeah. I I don't know. The sticks have changed too much, and the puck comes, you know, the it just it's yeah. It's that. I think I think it's gotta be the your chest protector, shoulder, and arm pads.

Right? You know, the the gold standard when I started out was John Brown, right, and his his stuff. Right? And but it's funny. I I loved his stuff.

Absolutely loved him. It was the I think they're the best at the time, and and there wasn't anything better. I think today, like, Bauer does a great job on has a great set. CCM, their top of the line CCM stuff is really, really good. It's not John Brown stuff, though, which I'm sad with.

You know? But

I have I have a very close friend who who I play goal with, and and we spare for each other who, you know, when they when he announced he was he was he was done and retiring, made sure he ordered one last set. He's got he he just got his chest protector, and and he will wear that until he's done playing. Wish I was I hear you.

Yeah. But I wish I had been that smart, man. Yeah. I think I think that I love I love John's catching gloves. Oh my god.

I love his catching glove. Just the lightest and the just best. I mean, just the heat boy. Talk about a yeah. I love John Brown's catching glove.

Just absolutely amazing. So I think that I think that and the skates, I think, in a lot of way, you know, what we're using today now is a lot better than what we had than what I had, for sure. Just the blades are better. They're the weight I mean, the they're much lighter. The protection is better, I think.

Not not the ones that add the cowling where you're really well protected, but they're too heavy. Right? So but I have a set of those still. I actually still

use them.

I was gonna say Daren told me to ask because he still misses the he misses the old ones with the cowlings.

They're I use them. I love them. I I've, like I've said, okay. I'm just gonna exercise more to keep up with the weight thing, and and now the pads are lighter. Right?

So so

It balances out.

Yeah. It's not the deer hair and all the other stuff that's in there right now. It's just really light pads and really nice. So I think yeah. I mean, the weight of the equipment has significantly gone down over time.

Right? And the protection has improved, which is, you know, you wouldn't think that would be, but it is. The the genre like, the chest protector shoulder pad, they're heavier now. I mean, they're heavier. They're they're, you know, substantial, which I which is good.

Yeah. I I think the the chest protector, shoulder pads, obviously, the stick. Although, can say I could stick handle and shoot better with a straight stick. I can't find anyone who'll make one for me, so what can I do? I thought there's one company.

I forget what I forget the name of it, but they were they were tempted to make a straight stick for me because I was just I just I love it. I had a great time doing it. I could do great backhands, do all kinds of good stuff with it. And now with the curve stick, I just you know, you don't anyway, it's harder. So that I'm not crazy about, but oh, well.

So you obviously have a passion for it. So we we hear about the EBUG appearances, and we hear about those. What's the you know, when you're not in the crease in Idaho and the ECHL or for other teams, Do you play still? You talked about that adjustment. Do you like, do have a men's league or yeah?

I do. Yeah. So I'll do I'll do men's league, also referee. Kinda that's kinda my, passion of trying to get back to the hockey community. In Idaho here, particularly in Boise, we have a real shortage of referees, and and it's hard.

Sometimes games get canceled because there's not enough referees. So I said, you know what? I'm I'm not gonna let that happen, and and I do that. So, yeah, that's kinda like giving back to the community and trying to, you know, help the sport in an area that that is it's really taken off here. So that I do play in men's league.

I do that. It's funny. I I have an easier time with ECHL players shooting on me than I do with men's league. It's just the mechanics. The things are different, and I'm just used to it.

Like I said, I you know, I at 14, I got really started to get used to, you know, NHL players and how they shoot shots. Yeah. Yeah. Pro shots. Right?

And and, it's a hard transition. Like, I'll go you know, I spend a week with the Steelheads or another team, you know, playing and practicing, and then I go play a men's league game, and it's it's a tough transition for me. It just really is. Yeah. It's hard.

It's the it's the change ups, and nobody believes you when you tell them. Right? They're like, sure. Sure.

Well, it's the it's your you know, your reflexes are like, they get to where, for me, nor I call normal. Right? They're so much better. Right? Because you're able to do these things.

Right? The pucks are coming so much faster, but you're so used to that. Things develop faster. But when I go do a yeah. It's hard when I go the next day and I I skate and do that.

And I I and I I try to find a way to figure that out, how to do that better because it's hard. It's It's just hard for me. You know? But it's not hard the other way. Like, I can I can be doing that stuff and then, you know, get asked spot of the moment?

Hey. We need you, you know, five tonight, we get down here or for pregame skate or whatever, for practice, whatever. And I have no problem. And it's like, okay. Great.

You know, it works. So yeah.

We joked around a little bit on the podcast last week. We said, oh, he's probably not using Sense Arena. I heard I heard you are.

Last last year, last season, they or last last summer. This summer. Was it last summer? A little bit of last summer and the season, and I love it. I actually think it's a talk about a what a great idea.

Right? What a great idea to do that. Right? And and it's funny because I did I did I did I'll call it Sense Arena the old fashioned way through self hypnosis where you would just go over stuff. Right?

And this because it didn't exist. Right? Didn't exist until now. Right? And you would just go over plays.

You'd go over shots and successfully doing this and controlling the rebound and doing that and doing these things. Right? And that's all you had. This didn't exist. Right?

And this, wow, this gives you an opportunity to I mean, it's I think it's amazing. I think it's great. I think as that improves, the evolution of the whole graphics and the quality of that stuff just gets better, better, better, right, which it is. I saw some of the first iteration, I think, last summer, and just the just the improvement of it and quality of it and just it helps. Like, you you do do a practice with that and then go out, and you're like, wow.

You're warmed up or do a pregame with that, and you are you are ready to go. Yeah. So it's impressive. Yeah. I love it.

I actually love

love that. Okay. So my last one might be my hardest one because I feel like you've answered this throughout all your other answers.

Yeah. No worries.

But but the passion comes through to keep doing it like you're doing it and and to put the work in to do it because it's required as we talked about.

Percent. Yep.

Do you what is it that you love the most about what is it you love about goaltending that keeps you doing it?

Isn't it it's it's I I think it's one of the most challenging things. I've done a lot of things in my life in the military and and being a green beret and doing all these things. Right? And and I think the you know, you have to be all these things. You have to be at gymnastics.

Right? You have to have all these all these skills and apply them and have the mental toughness and fortitude to to be able to work through all of that. So I I love the challenge of it. I love the the battle of it, so to speak. And I have a passion for that of just not in a it's funny because I'll laugh and joke with the other players from another team whether even it's, you know, in in whatever scenario I'm in.

Even when I was playing pro, I would do that and just and just try to have fun with it. But it's I I love that challenge. I love the, yeah, I love the challenge of having to be able to do that in that scenario and be successful with it. Right? And it doesn't always work out.

Right? As you know. Right? There's a scoreboard for a reason.

So Yeah. That's that's that's part of the challenge too.

Part of the challenge too of of yeah. Exactly. Well said. Of of how do you react to that? How do you deal with that?

How do you, you know, let in a bad goal? How you recover from that? Right? How do you how do you address that and just move on? How do you hit the delete button in a game and be different the next shot?

Right? Those type of things. Right? That challenge. I just love all of that.

And, you know, the satisfaction of doing that. I I I don't know there's another position in sports, in any sport that has what we have as goalies. I just don't think there is. You know? Love football, but it's not a quarterback.

Right? And they don't have what we have as a goalie. They don't have any of that. And it's just this unique job position that I you can't find anywhere else. Right?

And I would play it's funny because I I would play lacrosse goalie, you know, in the summertime just for just for fun a little bit. Right? And it's not the same. Right? It's completely not the same.

You know? It's just yeah. It's not the same. Like, I thought I I did not get the same joy from lacrosse goalie as I do with playing hockey goalie, right, ice hockey goalie, because it's just different. You're there's so many things going on.

There's so many things that mentally your little checklist that you've gotta go through every single play. Every time they cross the red line, you are doing this, this, this, and this, and you have to do it well. Right? And you have to do it in in, you know, split seconds. Right?

And just go through this progression of stuff and just love it. Just, yeah, the challenge, the joy joy brings to others. You know? You can help your team. You can really help your teammates.

You can be there for them. You know? Somebody makes a turnover in front of you, and and you take that away, you make it okay. Right? That's cool.

That's good stuff. So, yeah, being a good teammate.

Yeah. I love this. Doug, this is all good stuff. I can't thank you enough for spending the time to, you know, get us give us the the the right story. I was worried because we were doing it by the seat of our pants last week.

I was a little worried that we weren't doing it justice. So giving us the opportunity to let you tell like, thank you so much for sharing.

Well, you I love your I I I just, thank you back because when I listened to your show, was listening to the what a help to young goalies. What a help to others. What a what a great promotion for the sport and and for a position that that, you know, is near and dear to both you and I. But to help help these kids and help them you know, they're sponges. Right?

And you just try to do everything. Give them directions to go. That's all you have to do. It's, you know, give them a little gas in the tank, and they'll figure this stuff out and and try to do well with it. And it's all great for the game.

Right? It's all great for the game. So yeah. Thank you. Thank thank you guys for what you're doing.

Bonus.

Well, thanks for being a listener too. You added bonus for us. A little

self promotion. It's awesome.

Outro

Nick, nobody nobody spends that many different evolutions of the game or the position of goaltending.

No. And you know what? Hey. You know, one of the one things that I was really glad we got a chance to catch up with him on, because I do think remember last week when we we just sort of knew about him and we didn't have our facts right because of the art like, I'm it's not even really our fault. Some of the articles did this.

But the fact that he had evolved and he continues to evolve, whether it's using Sense Arena or working or looking for different ways to play the game, always trying to sort of refine the toolbox, the way he thinks the game is obviously at a very high level, that we talked last week about how the the one article talked about his nickname being the challenger and coming 20 feet out of the net. And I was quite I was happy with myself because I remember reading at the time being saying, you know what? This article's a few years old. I bet you like, because I just couldn't see how you would survive as an E BUG at that level as often as he does it if you were playing that old school of style. And so to give him the opportunity to clarify that, and that was one coach making a comment that got, you know, you hear a nickname like that and you overdo it a little bit.

And I'm not surprised to hear that's the case, but it was nice to hear it in his words. This is definitely a guy that has evolved his style. Even if as he tells us, he will step out every once in a while, show them one thing and take it away. I love that old school whimsy that he's got in his game. And just I could listen to him talk about the position forever.

There are some guys that you could just you know, you you talk about it, you're just kinda mesmerized. That was me interviewing Doug. Just kinda asked a few questions and sat back and enjoyed the conversation.

Coming up on Remembrance Day and Veterans Day. Thank you for your service as well. Green Beret. Yeah. He just kinda I

didn't I wasn't aware of that. And he just kinda threw that in there. That was history as a Green Beret, like, helped him with that. I was like, hold on. Wait.

Like. Yeah. Yeah. Just fat if just a fat what did I what did we say in the InGoalmag interview? The most fascinating world's most interesting goaltender.

World's most fascinating goaltender. Doug Melvin, thank you for sharing your story.

I mean, isn't it remarkable that we jumped on this because there's this cool story of a guy in his sixties being an e bug, and he might have just been, with all due respect, your average 60 year old goaltender who got really lucky, but it turns out to be this incredible story with so many layers.

Death. There's 14.

Yeah. Legitimacy there.

Yeah. Like A 100%.

Any one of about 10 of those things he talked about would have been an interesting story. And you put it together, and he is the world's most interesting goaltender. I I for me, the the Jacques Plante thing was the coolest because I remember at age five or six for Christmas getting Jacques Plante's book on goaltending and still have it sitting on the shelf at home, still look at it from time to time. He was one of my first goaltending heroes and then just put it together that Doug is 65, and it was sixty five years ago that Plante put the mask on for the first time in an NHL game. So and then ended up Doug's goalie coach in Philadelphia.

Like, what? It's all just really cool to me.

It was the Flyers connection that that got me.

I had no idea. So when he dropped that in there, I'm like teen. Age 14. Please excuse Doug from school. He's gonna be the goalie for the Flyers at practice today kind of thing.

Like, just what a fascinating individual. What an what an incredible life he's lived on a lot of different fronts, and what a blessing he is to the goalie community, both in terms of what he does. You talked about the refereeing because there was a shortage and wanting to support the hockey community in Boise and the fact he does that. But just the stories he has and the willingness to share them, just we we feel I feel kinda blessed that that our that Doug made the time for us, but that also that our audience heard it and got word to him that he needed to reach out to us. What a what a cool thing we get to be a part of here at the InGoal Radio Podcast and InGoal Magazine.

And thank you to all our listeners, and all the goalies that that give us time from this. We we really are blessed to be a part of this.

It's a true community.

Yeah.

It's the best community. It is.

I'm glad I didn't get my card taken away, and I get to be a part of it still.

I'm getting emotional. This may just be because I'm beaten down after playing four games in two days. My body's broken, and my mind is not far behind.

What what hurts the most or is fatigue the most?

My pride.

I was gonna say you can't choose that.

My pride. I got torched a little bit. No. The hips are a little tight. Obviously, I'm I'm sort of been diagnosed with needing a knee replacement in the near future.

That's the knee is pretty sore after 40. I haven't done I haven't done two a days. Doug Melvin at 65 did two a days in training camp at the ECHL level for three straight days this year. Here I am two a days for two days in a recreational charity hockey game, and I'm complaining. So I will shut up now, and I will try to reach Doug's status.

Doug, you are a carrot for the rest of us to chase. That's basically 100%. We we we admire you so much for what you were you have been able to do. You're sharing your story and what you continue to do as well. And please, like, when when you're e bugging again, let us know so we can acknowledge that. Because every every time that you get that call, we wanna share in in your journey with you.

Hey. I'm watching online. Let's do it.

I that would be so good.

There'd be all.

The fact that he's got backward flow in his game now. Doug the challenger.

InGoal watch party. InGoal watch party or, hey, like, just wait till the spring when the weather gets a little nicer. We're making an InGoal road trip because I heard there's some nice tracks to play golf in Idaho as well. There you go. I'm with trip road trip to Boise, Daren.

Yep. Let let let's go.

We can run up and down that is that where the Smurf Turf is? Is Boise? The what? Boise? The the Smurf Turf, the the football.

Smurf Turf. It's the blue turf.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. I I don't know if that's ready to see, but whoever decided to do that.

Yeah. It's interesting. Makes me think every time.

All I think of when I hear is the Coeur D'Alene golf Course with the with the island floating green that you take the boat out to after you hit it.

I had a buddy played there this summer.

As good as they say?

Yeah. Let's go.

As as good as they say, and I'm right with you on that. The fact that I'm bringing him Smurf turf is a sign that we gotta wrap things up. Really appreciate, the addition of our new partner, Vizual Edge, Eddie Lack, Doug Melvin, Cam over at The Hockey Shop, NHL Sense Arena. The Hockey Shop does such an amazing job with a Stop It Goaltending U. So the list gets longer than the number of people that we have to thank at the end of episodes, which is a sign that things are are really developing and continue to progress over at InGoal and ingoalmag.com.

Evolution of goaltending, evolution of our product. It's been fun to have all these people come on board and join us in the journey, including our guests,