Episode 342: Carolina Hurricanes goaltending coach Paul Schonfelder.

Intro

Off of the gold medal game in men's hockey at the Olympic Winter Games, this is InGoal Radio Podcast, Daren Millard along with Kevin Woodley, joining us from parts West, ie, Hawaii. Not exactly Olympic hockey weather, but did you get up early enough to watch the championship game?

02:30 in the morning, Daren. That's when I got up. It was, game started at 03:10AM here in Hawaii. I'm on the Big Island. When you say West, it's actually Southwest.

As as a matter of fact, earlier today, I drove around and through what is the southernmost part of The United States. So I went deep on a day where the Americans won a gold medal. I was deep into The US Southwest. So it was, yeah. It was it's, I'm I'm maybe a little discombobulated.

It's been a day. I've been up for a very long time at this point.

Hutch will be by with the Stop It Goaltending U the app parent segment. We also have the NHL Sense Arena feature interview. We are going to chat with the Carolina, Hurricanes goalie coach Paul Schonfelder in just a little bit. Also, Vizual Edge ProReads and the Gear Segment, diving into padded undergarments, over at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, the hockeyshop.com. The United States win two one in overtime.

And I think, from this podcast perspective, we're all very thankful and, impressed by the goaltending. No bad goals. It didn't come down to a mistake in the crease.

I mean, I guess you could probably argue it came down to one of the best saves we've seen in a long time. What is about paddle saves and championships? You know, I think a Braden Holtby, Aiden Hill had a big one for for Vegas in their run, and just that reach back paddle on Devin Toews. Right? For for a goaltender who, you know, is self described big and boring is is the style that Connor Hellebuyck likes to talk about playing.

You still have to have that battle, and that was proof positive of that. Just reaching back and barely getting that. Like, that was that was just wide open empty net, and what a hell of a save. And, you know, what a great tournament he had amidst a lot of question marks from the outside. Yeah.

I think he answered all of those. And, you know, interestingly enough, like, I'm curious. We can get into this a little bit. I've already seen a few social media about Hockey US USA Hockey's goalie program. Fifty one and thirty, and they're doing a fantastic job.

Like, incredible job. Their depth is perhaps unmatched outside of the Russian Federation in terms of the options they had coming into this game. All the guys that didn't make the team that would have been fantastic over there. Think of the wolves and the knights. And, like, there's just it's I'm probably gonna miss somebody.

I could go 15 deep and still miss somebody.

I'll go I'll go give you joy too.

Yeah. Of course. There you go. Like, I mean, again, no matter how far we go, we're gonna miss somebody. That's how deep the American and USA hockey deserves a massive, massive credit for that. But don't claim Connor Hellebuyck. And I know they don't. I've seen others claim it claim him for them.

It's a conversation we've had with Connor. And so hasn't really been a part of this program up until now, up until four nations, up until the Olympics.

You're talking about the U17 program and

Pretty much

National Development team.

Right. I mean, Connor's Connor's kind of the late bloomer. Right? Like, we've we've got the articles. We've had the interviews, undrafted in the NAHL, undrafted in the USHL.

But what I'm curious on like, so, again, that's not a criticism in any way, shape, or form. You won't find a bigger fan of the program they're running than me. But what I'm curious is despite that program, they've had challenges getting enough people to play the position at young ages. Like, they have a goalie shortage in youth hockey in The United States relative to their overall enrollment. And Hellebuyck's got 3,000 trophies.

He's got a heart trophy, and yet that hasn't really moved the needle. Maybe because he plays in Winnipeg. But I wonder if this does. Like, is Hellebuyck's save in that game and his performance in that game? Is does he become now, despite all the success in the NHL leading up to it, does he become the Brodeur-Roy for Quebec, the Miikka Kiprusoff for Finland, the Henrik Lundqvist for Sweden, the Sergei Bobrovsky, and Andrei Vasilevskiy for Russia.

Does he become the guy that inspires more goalies in The United States or more young athletes in The United States to want to be a goalie? Because the USA hockey does a fantastic job with their try goalie program to try and get more kids out, but the fact they have to be so active with it is because there's a shortage. And that's where I wonder if this moves the needle so that as good as the program they're running is and as much as they're creating and bit playing a role in all those deep list names we just went through and so many more is the real impact ten years from now when a whole another generation gets a chance to experience all the things they've done from a coaching standpoint, from a development standpoint. And now you've got even more young athletes that want to be goalies. So only time will tell, but I wonder if that was that was his, like I said, Henrik Lundqvist winning gold and what that did for Swedish goaltending and all the support that's there, you still got to inspire the young kids to play.

We've seen it in other countries and other generations, and I wonder if that was the moment for USA Hockey and Connor Hellebuyck.

What was different about Connor Hellebuyck at the Olympic Winter Games compared to other times on the big stage where he hasn't been able to come through?

We've actually had articles on this in the past. It I mean, Connor Hellebuyck plays a role in some of those playoff failures, but in most of them, the environment that he succeeded with to get to the playoffs has completely evaporated in Winnipeg once they get to the playoffs. It's lateral plays and screens and broken plays and things that he just didn't see a lot of in the regular season is exactly how teams were targeting him in the playoffs, and they were way more permissive in terms of what they gave up. And so I I we had we had one of our myth busters using clear side analytics just as past playoffs, sort of not just talking about, but showing and proving that the failures weren't necessarily Connor Hellebuyck. What changed between the regular season and the playoffs is everything going on in front of him.

Now behind that, there were some moments, and I've talked I've talked with people around it from the Winnipeg jets in the goalie department. There were some moments where his ability to read and anticipate the game, which is second to none. We've talked about it. Maybe the best, you know, pure play reader since Dominic Hasek. But there were times in the playoffs where he maybe got to the side of that fine line between reads and guessing, you know, a little

over anticipation. I remember a goal in the first round last year where he was it was clear he was heading over to the pass and the guy beat him short side high from distance. There's been moments like that. But I think for the most part, what's changed between regular season Hellebuyck and playoff Hellebuyck has been the environment in front of them. There'd be major categories, major scoring categories where the jets would be top five in the league for the entire regular season.

Then they get to the playoffs, and they'd be 16 out of 16. And everybody would say, what's wrong with Connor Hellebuyck? And I would look at the numbers and say, nothing. It's just the environment totally collapsed around him.

What's disappointing is it doesn't look like we're going to be able to, see any spillover from this performance, at the Olympic Winter Games into the National Hockey League and the postseason this year. I would love to see the confidence gained in Italy transfer over to Winnipeg in in the Stanley Cup playoffs, but they're they're so far back right now that Never say never. That's foregone.

Never say never because I will say this. At the beginning of this season, up until he left the team to have the knees, I believe it a knee surgery, his numbers relative to environment and the environment has cratered in Winnipeg. We I think anybody who watches their games knows it. The numbers back it up. They went from being a top defensive team in the league to one of the worst.

For the start of the season until the surgery, he was actually better this year relative to environment than he was last year when he won the Vezina and the Hart. Now it's it's fallen off since he came back from rehabbing and then and the knee injury missing all that time. But if this is a springboard back to that guy, you know, I don't know that they're a good enough team. And and maybe that's the statement. It doesn't matter how good your goalie is if you don't support him and and have good structure in front of him.

But if anybody can pull it off, I wouldn't bet against Connor Hellebuyck being the guy that could come back and help a late rally. I do as you said, though, the gap's pretty big for the Jets.

How do you think mainstream hockey people look at Connor Hellebuyck today compared to yesterday?

Oh, that's such a good question. I you know what? I I think we'll probably have I'll probably have to go read some articles. I think a lot of the mainstream conversation will be about, you know, myth busting and ending the narrative and getting past that. But as I've said, like, I mean, he had a sensational game today.

Right? Like, he made some

I think it's his best game ever given the stakes and then the the the performance on top of that.

Right. The moments were but, you know, we talk about the scene plays. We talk about the East West. Like, the the reach back paddle save on on Devon is is remarkable. If Nathan McKinnon doesn't miss an empty net, is this is the narrative Connor can't win the big game?

Don't forget about Charlie McEvoy's supporting role.

Right. And and and that's not taking anything away from him. It just goes to show you that, like, I don't like, he was fantastic today. Sometimes it doesn't matter. Right?

Like like, in terms of the result. And at the end of the day, those stories and how the mainstream views you is all about the result. And his numbers have been crooked in the playoffs, but I've I've we've written these stories. We've demonstrated that it's not all him. We've shown how different the environment has become for the Jets.

That's why I was putting the the just the mainstream hockey people.

Yeah. Because I I think in a lot of those playoff performances, nothing's changed except everything around him. Again, has he been to the level he was today? That that would probably be naive to suggest that. And so, yeah, I guess they'll say he rose to the occasion, and it's hard to argue that even if I think the circumstances around past playoff failures haven't been haven't been as clear cut as some of the narratives might suggest.

If you're a team looking for goaltending help and you watch Jordan Binnington in this tournament, would you pursue him at the trade deadline given what you saw, especially in the gold medal game where he was fantastic?

I would consider it if I knew that my team no. Obviously, nobody has team Canada's defense. Right. But there are things that he does in the way he plays, and this echoes in the numbers. I think we talked about it on the last podcast going into the Olympics before they dropped the puck on this thing.

Like, Jordan Binnington had given up fewer low danger goals this season than Connor Hellebuyck going into the tournament. Right? Like, he had only given up one low danger or, quote, unquote, bad goal since December 2. Right? He gave gave up one against France when it was well out of reach.

Clean shot off the rush. That's the only one he gave up in this tournament. Where he gets exposed and you saw it in this game, it's the aggressive nature. It's off deflections, tips, broken plays, and backdoor slot line plays East west. Now if I've got a team that's a contender in part because they defend all of those things really well and I just don't have the goaltender, absolutely, I go get Jordan Binnington.

But if you think that he's going to produce those numbers and those results in a defensive environment that doesn't insulate him from that, like, I don't know, Saint Louis, where they're not doing a very good job of insulating him from those things and he has an eight sixty four say percentage, I don't think my mind has changed. Again, if anything, this this whole thing almost reiterates that environment is just such an important part of this equation. And I've had a few goalie coaches suggest this to me this year, and and maybe a story we'll have to write here. But, you know, the amount of guys that can just outplay that environment consistently that that it doesn't matter what's happening in front of them, they've got it, it's just it's such a short list. It's become even more in the eyes of a lot of goalie coaches about the environment in front of the goalie as much as it is the goalie themselves.

I loved him going from his right to left and making that save up the one timer with with the glove. Like, that that was all world stop late in the game.

That that was the that was overtime. That was Quinn Hughes. Right? Mhmm.

The the one tee that didn't stay in the glove, but it got a piece of it. Toe up. I I gotta be honest with you. When I saw him go toe up on the game winning goal and the puck goes under his pad, there's a big part of me that wonders if Jack missed his shot, if he was going high glove and Jordan read it and went toe up and had the glove ready to go and make another another big flashy glove save off of Hughes' brother that goes under his pad. And the and I don't know this, and it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, he's Jack scored the goalie. He's a hero. He's missing the tooth. It's I mean, it's theater. It's fantastic.

And guys miss shots all the time. Or maybe he saw it. Maybe he saw the toe go up, and maybe he's that deceptive. But I saw a post game interview with Jackie Redmond and and Jack Hughes, and he said he didn't know that the puck had gone in right away. And that made me wonder if he was looking high glove and missed.

But it is a form of redemption for for Jordan Binnington. This this performance in the Olympic final, more so than the preliminary round and

the quarterfinals. But he but he was good in all of it. Right? Like, he was good in all of it. And he showed that with the right type of structure, he can be a championship level goaltender.

Even if they didn't finish it off the day, it wasn't on him. I thought he was I thought he was really good throughout this tournament. And again, Daren, we talked about this. I don't think enough people talked about it going into the tournament. His puck handling changed the way they got out of their own and and negated other teams' four checks in a tournament that had a lot more chip and chase than I think anyone expected in part probably because of that shorter neutral zone.

He made a backhand flip in the gold medal game that had me holding my breath, though.

I I know the one.

Where is that coming from?

I know the one. Do you wanna know the great irony of all this? Is as good as Binner handles the puck, and he's as good as anyone. And as much as I think that was a massive factor, I I I believe that was a factor in him being such a big part of this and the success that they had. On the other end, we saw in the semifinal against Slovakia, it didn't matter, but Hellebuyck make a mistake behind the net with a puck that led to a goal.

And, I mean, it was a romp anyway, so it it it was irrelevant. But there's a guy that's been criticized who I think has done a really good job of of of getting out of his net more often and being more comfortable at helping settle things down by stopping a hard rim and allowing his defenseman a little space. I mean, he's never gonna chuck it like Mike Smith, but that's not always what it's about. The irony is he ended up getting an apple on the game winner in overtime, if I'm not mistaken. So

He did.

So 41 saves, highlight of the year with the reach back paddle, and he gets an apple on the OT winner.

Gold medal and gold tender of the tournament at the Olympic Winter Games. Team USA wins best on best with NHLers, involved, for the first time since 1996.

I mean, hey. Once every

Yeah. This this feels like it like, '80 was a blip. '96 paid away for a lot of what we're seeing now, but there wasn't the follow-up, more so at the world juniors, in in that level, but, not at the the best on best, stage. This feels like a different different look to it.

Yeah. I know. This feels like this feels like the not even the start because we've seen this coming for a while. We've seen it at the world juniors

and Confirmation.

Yeah. Absolutely. Well said. I mean, they're an absolute powerhouse. They're a wagon.

And with what USA Hockey is doing with the goaltending, despite what I said earlier about Hellebuyck, there's there there could be a lot more of this in the future. So

Any surprises at the Olympic tournament before we turn the page and get over to our Gear Segment whether to Sweden made a change in Goal.

No. I don't know if I'm surprised.

Stuck with their with their with their almost 40 year old veteran.

And then it almost worked. Like, Leonardo Giannoni, you know, I I think there's something to be said for a little bit of uniqueness in how he plays, a little bit of no. There's a confidence of swagger he brings to an international stage. He has the confidence of a team that defends really hard in front of him. And, you know, I I don't know, you know, how good that pre scout was in terms of teams trying to go after him for specific things the way it would be against an NHL guy.

They've seen a lot before, and he was fantastic. I really wanna get him on the podcast. So I've tried before actually after the world championships. I he's just a fascinating I love the way he plays. Some some really old school elements to his equipment too.

Like, he's got some old school parts in there. I think he might even have a foam core stick someone Really? On social media. Had noted. Like, he's got an older pair of thicker Brian's pads.

There was a bunch of different things that were just older models. I can't remember off top of my head. I think I wanna give I wanna give credit where it's due. And so I hope I've got this right because he gets so much of it. I'm pretty sure it was Goalie Gear Nerd that had it and had a tweet sort of outlining all the different elements.

It might have actually this case might have been the goal net. So I apologize to either one of you guys if I got it wrong. You both do fantastic work. I just remember reading through the list, and I was like, it was just really kind it was just really cool. An old school goalie with with an old school birth certificate.

And and, honestly, I remember sending to a group chat I was in, man, he's at like, Canada had just won, think, their first elimination game against the Czechs in overtime, and they were on a different rink, the Swiss. And I was like, as good as the Canada game is, I think we might have the the story of the tournament being authored because I think Gianoni went into the third period with a shout out, and I was just like so I jinxed it. So I I apologize, Leonardo, if if I jinxed it by putting that out in the group chat, but, man, he I just thought he was really good. He's fun to watch. And and, again, we really wanna tell that story, so we gotta we gotta get on we gotta get him on the podcast here.

Gear

Gear Segment brought to you by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. We are going to get into padded undergarments, so which which are must must wears now if if you're at a higher level.

Oh, I I mean, I see them all over the National Hockey League. But before we get to that, I just wanna give people well, for well, a reminder to watch us on the YouTube channels. And don't worry, we did not make Cam model the undergarments, padded or not. Everyone is fully clothed when we discuss these two elements. You know what?

Cam's so busy right now with all the new equipment coming in. I don't think he'd have time to start a modeling career anyways, Daren. Not everything's released. Not everything's ready to get a sticker on it and and and go on the rack, but they are busy. The inventory is coming in.

The new launches are coming for spring, and they have got a warehouse full of gear. They can't wait to roll out for the goalie public. But in the meantime, there is a lot of space on the shelves that needs to be cleared to make room for the new 2026 lines, and that means fantastic prices on previous models, past generations from the biggest brands in the game. Make sure you check them out at the hockey shop source for sports, thehockeyshop.com. Find out what's on sale now.

Maybe get some sneak peeks at what's coming in the very near future at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports.

Padded base layers with Woody and Cam over at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com.

Puffy shirts. Puffy shirts. Padded shirts. Okay. Pat but I like you know, like, I'm a I'm an old school Seinfeld guy.

So, like, I'm thinking, like, I guess those were kind of pirate shirts. Puffy shirt. Remember the puffy shirt episode? I look like a pirate. You know what?

For a show that was about nothing, this is a show about something, and today we are talking about padded undergarments. Face slayers, folks, with padding for goalies. We got a couple different options here. He's Cam. I'm Kevin.

Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. We're just gonna update you on sort of what the latest best options are. The most popular options that I see in National Hockey League rooms when it comes to base layers for goalies. So, Cam, do you wanna start with the Bauer? Bauer.

Bauer Elite Padded Pants. Yes. We have talked about this before. But, yes Cam just wanted the Bauer because it's called Bauer Elite, and it's the only time he's gonna be elite in this entire segment. You're gonna need some of this extra PORON pretty quick between me and you.

Is that PORON or have they changed what It is PORON. It's a great little call out. So with their Elite padded pant, you're getting that PORON impact protection at the knee, which Kevin is going to need a little bit later on. So what it's going to do is provide you a little bit extra cushion as you are dropping down into your butterfly. This is not not to replace a knee pad.

No. No. No. No. Poron is very good.

And it stiffens upon impact. Nice and soft, especially when you're wearing it. It stays really soft as a as a base layer. However stiffens on impact, which gives you a little bit get that under the knee. It's just like you make it that much taller.

Yeah. That might be the difference between getting a piece and not getting a piece. Game of inches. In this case, less than an inch. So Velcro attachments for your socks.

I don't need those, but that's good. Yeah. You do have that option. Other than that, just their standard Bauer base layer. Okay.

So we got shirt to match? We do. Let's see the shirt to match. Go. Bauer Elite padded shirt.

Go. Bauer Elite padded shirt. Shoulder area with that pour on, very common area where you're getting that extra stinger. Sometimes catches you in between your neck guard and your actual shoulder photos themselves. Even if you don't get it in the seams, it's just a nice extra layer of protection underneath your chest protector and underneath your neck guard. Yes. Exactly.

Even if you don't get it in the seams, it's just a nice extra layer of protection underneath your chest protector and underneath your neck guard. Yes. Exactly.

And secondary ribs. Yes. In particular. So especially in reverse VH situations, some chest vectors don't fully wrap around enough. This just gives you that extra little bit.

Again, you know, we're not 100% relying on this to stop a puck by any means, but something is better than nothing. Although, again, don't just wear this instead of knee pads, please. Also, because this wraps over the shoulder, again, just another little layer and a pump that just protect your up between this and the knees. Hey. You're gonna butt.

Now we're talking half an inch of extra coverage, Cam. But speaking of puffing that up more Before we get to the puffy shirt, I wear this top and bottom Bauer base layer. Really like it. Heat to durability on this, especially with the Flexorb Pour On protection inside out cold water wash, hang to dry. It's got a little tab in there, makes it super easy to hang it to dry.

And it for me, like, I think the when's the last time I bought one of those from here? Like, we're well over three years. Well over three point. If you don't take care of it, this these will start to fall apart a little bit on you, but if you cold water wash it actually, you know what? I don't even know that I cold water wash it.

I don't. I actually warm water regular wash it. Key is hang dry. Don't put it in the dryer. It lasts a lot longer.

So there's public service announcement from somebody who really likes the Bauer under layers. Okay. You heard it here? Over to my puffy shirt. It looked like a pirate.

Maybe not a pirate, but you are gonna look bigger in this. And I am seeing a lot more of these in National Hockey League rooms. We had Alex and with the San Jose Sharks last week. He was wearing it. I'm seeing a lot more of this even in guys that are head to toe other brands otherwise.

I think I think it's the fact that this one, when you put it on, it kinda really does pirate puppy up. So what he means by that, the Vaughn on the inside has these removable foam pads. So there's gonna be areas where you might not necessarily need that extra, we'll call it protection, beef up so you can remove it. However, when you remove it, you could add it back to the shoulders and continue to puff that up another extra layer if you really, really wanted to. Yeah.

So what he means by that, the Vaughn on the inside has these removable foam pads. So there's gonna be areas where you might not necessarily need that extra, we'll call it protection, beef up so you can remove it. However, when you remove it, you could add it back to the shoulders and continue to puff that up another extra layer if you really, really wanted to. Yeah.

And again, like so it does two things. Right? Like, it's gonna when we see I see guys in the room with it, you can see how just sort of how much bigger it is than their actual natural profile. We all can't be as broad in the shoulders as Cam is. So it gives you that extra again, your chest protector is gonna sit a little higher off the shoulders up here and maybe even width wise with this on.

But don't forget, like, that's a protection thing too. Like, as much as this is, you know, it's it's it's not pour on like like the power one. It's just sort of a standard SD foam. Correct. But air gaps are protection.

Like, creating a little bit of a gap between you and your chest protector, that's that much more space for the puck impact to be absorbed before you sort of feel it. So there is a protection element to this as well. Foam helps to reduce that impact. Yeah. Yeah.

And a little the air gaps never hurt. I mean, that's why you can't shrink-wrap a goalie even with all the padding and equipment. That's gonna hurt, and that's always been one of the debates with the NHL and the goalies about how tight you can make this stuff. So knees, pants, same as the I've never worn these Cam. So, again, you've got the sock tabs.

Are these removable as well or no?

They sure are.

[crosstalk] So this kinda comes down back to both. We go to go wash these. It is recommended to take the foam out. Now when you can actually throw this in the dryer, then when you take it out of the dryer, then you pop your foam pieces back in. But much like the Bauer one, I mean, this is designed to be, you know, a breathable base layer underneath.

And if you hang dry it, if you're worried about durability and you don't wanna take the foam out, hang drying because of the nature of the material is usually pretty quick. Exactly. So there you go. Got the Vaughn base layer with removable padding. You got the Bauer base layer.

[crosstalk] Cam, if they've got questions about sizing, availability, sizing probably in particular on this, where would they get you? So check it out at the thehockeyshop.com or (604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790. Do these come in different colors? There's a blue one too, but for the most part, you're gonna find it in this red trim. So it's there's no different models and different color.

I just happen to see different colors in the room. There's different colors. Okay. I like different colors. It's like a rainbow and a pirate.

I look like a pirate. Yar. We like a some side, though.

Do do you have a preference when it comes to the padded base layer? I've been people people don't like the the chest padded, but they don't want their arms. Other guys, little less than the arms, but they they want that support on in the chest.

Definitely, that power product we just talked about is something I've worn for years and talked about some of the wash care advice during the segment there in terms of inside out cold water and just hang dry. I think if you do that, it lasts a long time. If you were to throw it in the dryer or not inside out or maybe add a little heat there, some of the padding will start to peel off sooner. I've had good success with with it lasting. I I love the padded pants in that case.

Just a little extra cushion on the knees when you're dropping into the butterfly. It wraps around the inside of your knee. Not for for protection for me. It's not like, you know, I mean, it would help you on a puck impact. But as I've gotten older, I've somehow, thanks Maria Mountain, managed to widen my butterfly enough to actually not take pucks off the knee very often.

And it's more about sort of the impact of landing and then maybe a little extra height. Right? Like that that foam stiffens on impact and, you know, if that's that's a quarter of an inch taller in my butterfly on my knees, the odd puck catches a piece of the shoulder rather than going over it, I'll take it. And if the padding over my shoulders also adds a quarter of an inch to my chest protector, that's a half an inch, Daren. I'll take that.

And I think that was one of the biggest points of the conversation with Cam is that Vaughn, you know, it may not be the same type of high tech, so to speak, foam. It's just, you know, standard SDHD foam. But the way it sort of puffs up, not only does it make can it help make you present bigger, but it creates a bit of an air gap between you and your equipment, and that is an element of protection in itself.

And, again, if you're playing at any type of level and you haven't worn when I say any type of level, a higher level, even a higher level recreationally, and you haven't experienced the use of a of a padded base layer, check it out because it does make a difference. Gives you a little more confidence, and there's just the odd stinger, whether it's off your elbow, your forearm, your your shoulder. It's it's good to have that backup. The the Bauer one with the hips or the ribs, that protection, that's huge with with you would know that more

than anybody. That's the shirt I have. That's the shirt I have. It's got it all over the shoulders around collarbone area and then over the rib cage. And I gotta say, just a little tease for the folks out there.

It's not public yet, but there is a brand we work with named CCM that's got a really good shirt coming out. I see most often the NHL, Bauer and that Vaughn one has become increasingly popular, but early adoption from this new product from CCM pros are getting it, and they are not giving it back. So I'm starting to see it circulate in locker rooms as well. And I think that'll be a big hit when we get out of the launch season later on this spring.

Good stuff. CCM is, the brand that I wear. I've got a bond too, but just, I've had it forever to worn out, so I replaced it with the CCM, and I love it. Vizual Edge ProReads, Cam Talbot, coming up as we, acknowledge our great partnership with Vizual Edge.

Well, do you want the puck to look like a beach ball, Daren? I know it does for you, buddy, but for the rest of us, it it takes work. Every goalie has that night here and there where the puck looks huge. You're ahead of every play. You feel calm, patient.

You're in total control. Then there are the nights where you're a half step late. You see it, but you don't really see it. You're reaching. You're guessing.

You're fighting it. That's not your technique. That's your eyes and your brain not processing the play fast enough. Vizual Edge fixes that. It measures how well your eyes track and process the game then gives you a custom plan to train improvement.

Three fifteen minute sessions a week on your laptop or tablet, That's all it takes. It's what NHL goalies used to make the game slow down when it matters most. And, of course, if you're not an InGoal member, you can still get a discount on a Vizual Edge subscription using the code InGoal, I n g o a l, all caps. But if you are a member of InGoal Premium, we'll save you double the discount. Just log in to any ProReads and get your exclusive members only discount to save twice as much as everyone else on Vizual Edge, help you see and process the game better.

Who we got this week?

Cam Talbot, who guess what? This is this is timely. Vizual Edge user. A guy who we've talked to on past podcast talked about he doesn't think it's a coincidence that his three all star game appearances are later in his career after he started using Vizual Edge. This week, it helps him identify threats and make the right read on a play behind the net.

So we're dealing with a pop pass. We're dealing with a puck being carried behind the net, going around behind on the forehand with a little bit of pace. Daren, I ask you, how are you approaching that puck behind the net?

With panic.

Yeah. Me too. Me too. I'm probably just pushing across blind to the other side expecting the wraparound. Yeah.

Cam does a really nice job of explaining a term we've used before over at ingoalmag.com, like term a lot of goalies will be familiar with, windows. So leaning off that lead post and use opening up a window over, in this case, his left shoulder to look through the net and see the puck behind it. But staying anchored to that lead post until the puck gets to a certain point behind the net. Now everybody has different points. How far they wanna see that puck go before they switch sides with their head and commit across expecting the wraparound.

Cam's is different than other guys. I'm gonna save that exclusively for the InGoal members that wanna go check it out. He does a really nice job of explaining windows, breaking down how to use them, and giving sort of his point along the net when he's committing to the other side. In this case, puck maybe doesn't go there, and the fact he uses the windows allows him to push out on a pop pass back the other way and make a really difficult save look fairly easy. But if you're watching the ProReads this week, the real value is not so much how the play ends, but in Cam explaining how he handles every aspect of it.

It's what separates us at InGoal. It's what separates ProReads and makes it such a valuable tool for young goaltenders, goaltenders of any age. We know NHLers that watch it. And in this case, Cam explaining something like windows. We've also got links to two other stories within the ProReads because we did a drill in Florida with Roberto Luongo in one of his final seasons where they were working specifically on windows, him and James Reimer.

And then we've got some work with Carey Price on the ice explaining how he uses windows on plays behind the net and teaching kids how to do a better job of using it themselves, setting themselves up to not overcommit so that if that pop pass comes out the same side, they're in great position.

Bill Ranford was the first person that I heard talking about windows where it resonated with me.

Yeah. And and they use a different, obviously, philosophy in LA where they sorta and it would depend on which side it's coming where they hold blocker side a more often on that and still look over the left shoulder. But similar philosophy, similar idea, a bit of a different approach from the one that we have at ingoalmag.com from Bill Ranford and what the Kings use a little bit different in this one from Cam Talbot, but I think that's the beauty of it. Right? The philosophy of being able to see behind the net by opening up a window to look through it is one thing.

How you decide to implement that philosophy, whether it's the Kings method or the one that Cam Talbot shows us, and Talbot spent some time in LA and is familiar with that method, and he uses it at times when the play's coming from the other side compared to this video. That's your choice. You get to learn them all, experiment with them all, figure out which one works best for you. Maybe in different situations, different different types work best for you. That's what ProReads and what InGoal Mag is all about.

Tools in the toolbox, Daren, we've got them all.

Parent Playbook

Lean into it. Let it help you in your game as we slide over to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, with our paired segment with, David Hutchison, who'll join us in just a little bit. Stop It Goaltending U, the app, an incredible resource for being able to lean on them for any part of your game.

Well, do you wanna have twenty five years of NHL goalie coaching experience at your fingertips? You wanna tap into the goalie parenting perspective that helped Joey to chord reach the NHL? That's what you get with a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, the app. All the knowledge from Brian Decord has been an NHL goalie coach, scout, and director, as well as the insights and expertise from his staff at Stop It, which last year celebrated twenty five years as one of the world's top goalie schools and has a long list of instructors that include a lot of veteran NCAA coaches. It's all delivered in easy to digest chunks, including five short daily primers each week, style analysis, breakdown videos, and drills that you can take onto the ice with your team and coach.

Plus, you get a subscription to InGoal Magazine premium included with your subscription to the Stop It Goaltending U app. So check them out now at the App Store or Google Play and get the best of both worlds when it comes to improving your goaltending.

Hutch.

Hat tip to clanko media over on x for this one. It's worth reading twice. Connor Hellebuyck. Never played tier one, never played in the Brick, never played the Quebec PWE tournament, never made a development camp, did play high school hockey, did play NHL, did play NCAA div one, did win a Vezina, did win Olympic gold, and yet we've got parents stressing over which AU team. And since we're listing accomplishments, they forgot that he also won the heart trophy as the NHL's most valuable player.

Not bad for a kid who skipped all the so called mandatory stops on the path to hockey greatness. Now I saw the comments. I know what some of you were thinking. Sure. But look at the rest of the USA roster.

Most of those guys did play tier one. Lot played in the brick. They did follow the prescribed path. K. Fair point.

You're right. But here's what the argument misses. Those players followed a path that worked for their family, their situation, their circumstances. Connor Hellebuyck followed the path that worked for his. The outcome, Olympic gold, was the same.

The prescribed path isn't wrong. It's just not the only path and it's definitely not a guarantee. For every kid who checks every box and makes it, there are thousands who checked every box and didn't.

The prescribed path isn't wrong. It's just not the only path and it's definitely not a guarantee. For every kid who checks every box and makes it, there are thousands who checked every box and didn't. The boxes, they're never the point. Your job as a hockey parent isn't to replicate someone else's checklist.

It's to find the path that fits your kid, your family, your finances, your values, and trust that if the love and work are there, the path will take care of itself. I've said many times and I'll keep saying it, the hockey dream is as individual as the kid chasing it. And let's be honest about what we're really hoping to get out of this journey. For the overwhelming majority of families, it isn't an Olympic gold medal, though congratulations to every player and every family who gets there because that is something special. What we're really chasing are the moments, the lessons, the friendships, the early mornings and long drives, and watching your kid figure out who they are through this game.

That's the dream worth protecting. Don't let anyone else's checklist convince you your kid is already behind.

Hutch, thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. There's, all different ways, to handle it, from an athletic performance, but also, the parent segment, and that side of things, in our sport, all sports, really. You can take a lot of what Hutch talks about and then put it into, your kid's soccer or baseball or softball or any type of Or in my case.

Or in my case. Performance. Volleyball. I I definitely have taken lessons on whether it's car rides home or how to how to have conversations with my daughter about the sport. A 100%. I have taken notes as I've listened to Hutch talk and applied these philosophies. It's it's good stuff, folks. It's good stuff.

One of the goaltenders, that was at the Olympic games, coming back, is, Frederik Andersen with the Carolina Hurricanes, who works with, this week's, guest on our NHL Sense Arena feature interview and Paul Schonfelder.

Yeah. And he's a guy that I've known met him at a Hockey Canada camp. We talk about that a little bit way back in the day, one of the world junior sort of summer camp environments, and just was immediately impressed. A true student of the position, someone who tried minor pro for a few years. He gets into that and quickly went over to coaching and has had nothing but success.

He's been great with the Carolina Hurricanes. Chance to talk about a lot of different things, working with different goalie styles, different goalie strengths. I mean, he's got such a variety when you think of the even right now with Brandon Bussi, who's one of the top guys in the NHL, like, just having an incredible breakout season. Frederik Andersen has been so good for them for so long, has so much experience. And then Pyotr Kochetkov, who plays a totally different brand of hockey.

They all play different depths, different strengths. It's and so how do you coach that? So that's one of many topics we get into in this discussion. There's there's so many different things we get into in this one, Daren. I I just can't wait for people to listen.

It's we're we're into the forty minute range. Me and Paul go back, so I I I bled him for a little more time than I promised I would, but it's well worth it for all our listeners.

Feature Interview - Paul Schonfelder

Before we get into the conversation, NHL Sense Arena, long standing partnership with InGoal Radio Podcast.

Yeah. And they have got some exciting things coming out, some very exciting things coming out that include someone we've worked with in the past. I'm gonna leave it at that. Little tease. We're working on a review right now.

It's exciting. Another and this is the beauty of NHL Sense Arena that they're always looking to add. You don't just buy a subscription to what it is now. You get a subscription to what it's gonna be if you buy for a year. What it's gonna be a year for now will be different.

It will be improved. The amount of we talk about goaltending as a position that's constantly evolving and changing. The amount of development that goes into NHL Sense Arena is a big part of why it's such a successful product. Never mind the fact that you can get out there as we were talking with Paul Schonfelder. It might be a great way for NHL goalies who can't see traffic in practice, not the way you do in the NHL, to get some of that in a virtual reality world as they come off this three week break.

There's just there's so many different ways you can use this tool. And I will remind people right now, one of the best prices of the year until the end of the month, the February, they've got a huge discount on right now. Make it sure you check them out at NHL Sense Arena and use the code IGM 50 to save an additional $50 off of that already great price on NHL Sense Arena.

Being flexible, it has a big impact, for the goaltenders and the goalie coach as you'll hear from Paul Schonfelder in the NHL Sense Arena feature interview on InGoal Radio, the podcast.

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. I actually can't believe this is first time guest stuff, Paul, because you've you've been, you've done, like, an InGoal in person back during the pandemic. You've helped write articles with us at InGoal, and you've been a resource for me over the years that I can't thank you enough for. Paul Schonfelder, goaltending coach of the Carolina Hurricanes. How are you today?

I'm good. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And obviously, a a big fan of the podcast and all your wonderful guests that you have on that, you know, you learn a lot from, so I'm happy to be here.

Well, we're happy to add you to that list. Seven years with the Carolina Hurricanes, five as the NHL goalie coach, first couple in a development role. Before we get into coaching, because I know you you're I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions, advice for young goalies, for goalie coaches, and the path that you followed. I did a little research, and I didn't I kinda checked in on the playing career. So walk me walk me back.

I mean, we've got Cape Fear Fire Ants, Shreveport Mudbugs. We've got the Ontario Hockey League for a little bit. It's a OJHL as well. Walk me back through how Paul Schoenfelder became a goalie guy.

Sure. So most of my, I guess, junior days were spent playing tier two. I was drafted by Ottawa sixty sevens in the Ontario Hockey League. It was actually the the the year that we hosted the Memcup in 1999, but was sent down to play tier two and was lucky enough to get called up for that for the Memorial Cup tournament. And then just kinda hung around tier two up and down with major junior.

You know, college or university wasn't really something on my radar. I was, you know, an Ontario kid growing up in Ontario. I wanna play in the OHL. But, yeah, spent spent most of my five years of junior playing tier two, and then just tried to make a go of it of, you know, East Coast League, kind of a defunct league now, think, in United Hockey League, in Rockford, Central Hockey League. So I just kinda bounced around, tried to find something, didn't work out.

And as my time playing junior, we had a local goalie school back in Hamilton, Ontario. It was actually you probably would know Koneski Sports. Yep. It it it was the was the goalie store. Well, they also had a a a pretty popular goalie school back in the day, and it was run by a guy named Pete Richards.

Pete Pete was a good goalie in his own right. And during my junior career, I'd spent all summer coaching. Started off with with younger kids and and working my way up to eventually, like, running running the camp and and being a senior instructor. I did that for, I don't know, seven or eight years. It really helped me get my toe into into coaching, and find my passion for that side of it.

But like I said, yeah, I just bounced around the miners a little bit, and, you know, there comes a time where, you know, you gotta look in the mirror and say, you know, it's probably not gonna work out to where I want it to go. So, yeah, I I I came back home and went right into coaching right away.

It says on the the hockey DB or or on the on the staff page, you win Memorial Cup two as part of that group

that hosted? As a, yeah, as a third goalie. We we had two really good goaltenders that, you know, some some people may remember. One was Luukkonen who who was a Hungarian goalie that was drafted in the European draft. And then the the other goalie was Seamus Kotick who works for Buffalo.

And and, you know, Seamus was he he was the starter on that team and and did an amazing job, obviously, backstopping that team to Memorial Cup. But, yeah, I was I was lucky enough to be around the team and experience it.

Okay. And then that that path that you mentioned, sort of minor pro and chasing it, not that it was easy then. Has it gotten harder? Has that as a path like, we see now teams so much deeper in their depth chart. You you know, you spent the the first couple of years in the development role.

As teams populate ECHL rosters with their own prospects, has the undrafted path gotten that much harder for goalies today? At a time where, you know, we just watch an Olympic final, we're calling our hellebucks a late round pick. Logan Thompson's on the bench for Canada. He's undrafted and sort of went that route, but has it gotten a little tougher to sort of find spots for some of these guys?

Yeah. It's it's it's been really difficult, I think, for those guys. It was obviously easier back when I was playing. You know, you could have, you know, one spot at least it seemed in the East Coast League that was kinda set aside for a walk on tryout, not somebody that was drafted or signed by an NHL team. You know, you you have those guys, but it was like one on each team, and there'd be that extra spot.

And then you had, like, the United League, like I said, where, you know, you could maybe get a start, and work your way up. But now, you know, even in the East Coast League, it's been such a great stepping stone for drafted goalies to to to play and prepare for moving up the ladder that I think teams really see the value in it. And it's just, you know, you look at you look at those rosters in the East Coast League, and all those goalies are drafted or free agent signings that that play for, you know, their East Coast League. And and like I said, they they use that as a stepping stone. So there's not a lot of spots open for the guy that just just, you know, finished junior or finished college.

I wanna step in and play pro. It's a it's a tough go.

From the coaching side, talk to me about your stepping stones there as you made that transition, obviously, working at the goalie schools, Saint Lawrence University, Ottawa sixty seven's in the OHL, Canada in the CCHL. You spent some time with Hockey Canada's program. That's where we first met. And even even over in Japan. Yeah.

That that path, just walk us through the history of it, and and I might have a few questions as we go.

Sure. Yeah. My first my first team gig was was tier two in Canada, and I did that for a couple years. And then I ended up getting a job with Saint Lawrence University's division one ECAC. And after that, I spent a couple years there.

I think where I really got some some traction is when I joined, the sixty seven's OHL team. And like you said, we met at Hockey Canada. Fred Brathwaite, who's who's a good friend of mine and a good friend of yours who he, at the time, was running the the goalie side of things for Hockey Canada. So when I was coaching with, the Ottawa sixty sevens, Freddie was, nice enough to invite me to we used to have those goalie camps, which I loved. It was just such a good networking and great for the goalies and was able to do some u seventeen, some u 18 with Hockey Canada.

That was a great experience. And then, yeah, you just kinda get your name out there, have a couple interviews here and there. And, you know, I was lucky enough to to get an interview with with where I am now in Carolina, and I've been here since. So I've been very, very fortunate kinda to have a a path to where I am and lots of help along the way for sure. And, you know, just it it was hard work, but it paid off.

Any advice for because you probably get this a lot, but young goalie coaches that are looking to make a similar transition. Obviously, you know, at that pro level, a lot of guys' goals, the National Hockey League, but there's there's steps to be taken along the way, and it's not necessarily easy steps, especially, you know, financially. Like, it's a position that isn't rewarded at the junior levels. It can be a tough tough thing to make a go of if if you're down there for years and years. Any any tips or advice?

Yeah. I mean, it's probably cliche, but just stick with it. Like, you're right. You know, when you get into especially the team stuff in in junior and college, you're not you're not doing it to put food on the table. You're doing it because you love doing what you do.

You're you know, most of those guys have goals to get to the next level, and and that's a big, you know, a big stepping stone in that team environment, you know, to hopefully do well and and just kinda move up the ladder. But, you know, just speaking for myself and my personal experience, like, I had two or three NHL development job interviews, and I didn't get them. You know? And you just gotta stick with it and just keep doing what you you love and and, you know, trying to help these guys get better and hopefully some you know, if it's the NHL or AHL development role, whatever it is, you know, just keep putting your name out there. Don't get discouraged if you don't, you know, if you don't hit on the first interview.

Because like I said, I got I got turned down two or three times. You just keep keep at it, and and hopefully, you know, you get your chance.

Any lessons from that process of going through the first couple? Like, there's probably a lot of goalie coaches in the junior level that that might wonder, you know, what's it like? What's that interview process like, you know, for those pro jobs? I've heard different stories over the years about what they can be like. Projects handed out, almost like tests slash homework for some guys depending obviously on the organization.

Was there anything that you you you'd recommend doing to prepare for somebody that gets that opportunity the first time?

Yeah. There I've heard some stories as well about different projects and stuff that the team asked you to do. I to be honest with you, I never had that experience. All all my interviews were basically like what we're doing right now is is just talking and, you know, talking about philosophy and stuff like that. But, you know, just be yourself at the end of the day.

If you do end up again, it's another cliche cliche thing to say, but if you do end up getting the job, you wanna know that you've got the job because you're being you. And they know what to expect when you go on there. Don't, you know, don't try to fancy up your questions and and just not be who you are. Just be yourself and so they know what you're all about. And then if you get the job, you go on there and and same thing.

You just be yourself and and, you know, stick to your strong points and have an open mind and a and a learning mind and and get after it.

Is it important to sort of know, like, if you're going into an organization, a development job interview, just have an idea of what the depth chart looks like and maybe an understanding of some of those goalies games? I'm guessing those might be the types of questions that you get asked about, hey. Like, what do you see in this guy, or what did you do here?

Yeah. I mean, listen. You gotta you gotta do your homework for sure. You know, if you have a if you have an interview for a development job, it it would be probably smart to go through their depth chart and have an idea of who they have, you know, and and probably watch some games. So if they ask you about a certain goalie, you have some information.

It also shows that, you know, you do your homework, which is, you know, you you as a goalie coach, you have to be prepared. Right? You have to be prepared. So that that for sure is something that and they may ask you to do that anyways. Right.

That could be part of the process of, hey, I want you to look at these two prospects. Let me know what you see, their strengths and and and weaknesses, and give a scouting report. But, yeah, I mean, you you gotta do your homework and try to be as prepared as possible.

How has your philosophy around the position evolved over the last five to seven years being at at the highest level? We you talk about being willing to always learn. I guess you had like, the game's changed so much in front of the goalies. You as a goalie coach probably have to adapt your approach, not only as yourself and and as a philosophy, but also when you have so many different unique guys. I mean, the guys out there all play a different style.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I've always been I don't wanna say my philosophy hasn't changed because because I have certainly learned new things along the way. And and the position, as you know, is in the last ten, twelve, fifteen years, it's changed drastically, technically and tactically.

So you have to be able to stay, you know, kinda up to date with with what's working. Right? But I've always been a guy that believes in in skating and movement, even when I was younger, you know, coaching that the importance of being a great skater, good edge work, good balance, good control, good body control. So that component of it really, you know, hasn't really changed. I still believe that that's what you I mean, it's it's even probably more evident now that, you know, the game's become so much, you know, East West in the last couple years that your movement is is is something you gotta really rely on.

It's gotta be the backbone of your game. I I personally believe in. But you're right. Like, I've had so many different styles of goaltending, and I'm pretty open minded when it comes to, you know, coaching these these different goalies. Like, I think there's there's different ways to get things done.

You know, I've always had the philosophy, hey. You play your game. You might be different than the next guy. Your post play might be different. Where you stand in the crease death wise might be different.

You do you. You play the way you think is gonna make you successful. If it doesn't work, if something doesn't work consistently, then we need to sit down together and and come up with a a solution. But until then, you know, yeah, there's the staples of of of what you teach. But, yeah, like I've had, you know, Brandon Bussi, for example, I know he's kind of been a hot name out there.

You know, he plays he plays different than Freddie. You know? And then, unfortunately, PK got hurt this year. He's different. Like, all these guys are they're they're so different, but they've all had success doing it, you know, a different way.

But like I said, we my goalies know that, you know, I want them to feel like they have a grip on their own game, and it's not something being jammed down their throat. But if something's not working consistently, then we gotta come up with another solution together.

Do you how do you go through that process with a new guy? Brandon would be a good example. You got him off waivers. He's coming in. I mean, you would have known his game.

You would have done that work. But how do you go through the process of, you know, hey. Like, what makes figuring out what makes him feel good, both in terms of watching his play and analyzing his play and on a day to day basis in practice, you know, what is it that's gonna allow him to perform? How do you how do you go through that process with a new guy?

Yeah. Well, exactly what I just said to you about, you know, I tell him what I'm all about. And, you know, I'm gonna allow you to to feel like, like I said, like, you can play your game even though it may be different than somebody else. You know? It's just a conversation.

It's a conversation. And I and honestly, in my experience, like, I think it puts him at ease right away. That that's from my experience. Like, hey. I've seen you play.

I know what you're all about. I know your strengths, and you're here for a reason because we like you. So I'm not gonna ask you to change five different things when I liked you originally the way I saw you play when you were in Providence. You know what I mean? And and I and I I asked them.

I you know what I do is I usually send them an email, and I'll and I'll say, give me some things that when you're at your best, what do you feel what does that look like? And I always send it in an email because I feel like it gives them more time to think about it, not just face to face, and I ask them, and they're kinda like, you know, maybe trying to come up with a couple things really quick. I like that. You know, what does it look like when you're playing? You know, what you know, like, for example, you know, bus talked a lot about, you know, being on my feet, being patient, trying to arrive east west on my feet if I can.

I know that I'm I'm I'm playing well when that's happening. If I'm over sliding and getting places on my knees, then, you know, it doesn't that's not what it's supposed to look like. You know? So there's these guys give me different answers, but but, ultimately, I it's a conversation and and obviously trying to get to know these guys on what how they think they need need to play in order to be successful.

Does the does the drill work you do matter, in terms of changing it up for each guy? Like, do some guys have different things that, hey. This is the thing that, you know, makes me feel sharp on a game day or the day before a game? Can does that have to evolve depending on the person or

Yeah. It's involved? For sure. Yeah. It it's all different.

They all three of them have a different game day routine Okay. Of the morning skate. Yeah. You know, we've had three here for for most of the season. It I will admit sometimes I I I I make a mistake and do the other guys, you know, little warm up before, so sometimes I have to be reminded, but all three of them are different.

Now they all I could tell you that all three of them, the the drills kinda they're all the same in terms of the skill that you're working on. It's just a little different in, you know, how we're executing it. Right? So we're gonna do skating. We're gonna do crease work.

Right? And it could be something different that they feel like, you know, one or two on our feet, one or two leaving our feet going into a slide, and then one or two staying in our butterfly. Maybe it's going back to our post and and bumping off across the other post. And then we do some tracking, you know, some some positional shooting where they know, you know, hey, we're gonna hit you five times in the glove, five times in the chest, five times in the blocker. Sometimes a lot of movement before the shot, they're all different.

But that is the one area, especially whoever is starting will have their own little routine that you have to, you know, you have to adapt to. And sometimes you make, you know, a couple little changes along the way as you go. But, for sure, it's, it's something they're all different at. Practice time, like when we're practicing, we we we I try to take their we'll we'll have little meetings before practice, like little just quick little chats. Is there anything you feel like, you know, I want again, I want them to feel part of it.

So, you know, we'll we'll do the same drill for all three guys if we have time at practice, which is kind of hard to come by these days, to be honest with you, with the schedule. Practice time has been, it's it's been tough just trying to get that in with so many games and a condensed schedule. But I'm kind of rambling here, but to answer your question, yes, the, they're all three of them are different in terms of their their pregame preparation.

Well, I was gonna say I was gonna ask what the what it's been like, especially, like, you know, a guy like Freddie, coming off the Olympics and all that travel and all that work as much as for a guy like Brandon, you've had him in practice this week and a chance to maybe reset some things. I've I've heard from guys around the league that that's the focus of these past seven days. The guys that are coming back from the Olympics, I'm trying to it's that old, like, you know, in in in other sports where a team gets an early buy and it's the rest versus rust. Like, how much how much will the guys be fresh versus having not seen live action? Like, what are we expecting this to look like when we come out of this break?

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure the guys that the the goalies that have participated in the Olympics, they're gonna be in terms of in terms of gameplay, they're gonna be they're gonna be fresh. They may be a little bit maybe a little bit tired, plus, you know, the you have the travel and the time change, which is something you gotta consider. But in terms of of game action, I'm sure those guys are gonna feel good about their game. And then the guys that, you know, have been practicing here for the last, you know, like a guy like Buss, You know, a lot of practice time, which, you know, isn't a bad thing, but, it's been, you know, what, three weeks now since since we've played an NHL game, two, three weeks.

So there might be a little bit of rust. But we you know, I actually talked to Buss the other day, and, you know, we talked about doing some video, but not just on one game, kind of a a recap of the first, his first half year and just going over some things that so he's getting eyes on what he's doing in a game and what what he's done well, things that he needs to pay attention to. So that's one way of making sure that, you know, hey. Here's, you know, 15 to 20 clips of what you've done really well in the game just to kinda put that in his mind, and he sees himself playing in in a live game because it's been a while.

I was gonna say we should've had him on for some ProReads. That would have been perfect. Yeah. Well, I've actually I've actually had guys come off injury, say in the past that, hey. Because, you know, sometimes in a season, as you said, it's so hard to get time.

It's usually when guys are hurt, they'll be like, yeah. I got time to do this right now. And then they say, this is actually really good coming off

an injury. For sure.

The importance of positive reinforcement with video, is that a tool you use not just during breaks, but at other times in the role?

A 100%. Yeah. I would say I'm, like, 80% positive in during video, and then there's what I call some teachers, you know, of stuff that they gotta be aware of and, you know, maybe some some negative things that are creeping up in their game that, you know, needs to be you know, they need to see it. But for the most part, it's all positive. A lot of it's positive.

Just things that they're doing well. Even though I know they're they, you know, they know they're doing them well, I I wanna make sure that they see it through video, positive reinforcement. You know, it's such a as you know, a lot of it's mental too. Right? Like, I want them to walk away from anything we do, whether it's video or a goalie drill, you know, feeling good about their game.

Is traffic the one thing probably have practice drills too. Again, try and get as close to a game as you can. But is traffic the one part that, you know, during this this week as you get ready to come back today, is that the hardest part to replicate and practice properly? Is there anything you found over the years that allows you to do it? Because it's just kinda tough to get you know, guys don't wanna be in the net the way they would be during a game or in front of the net the way they would, and the guys firing away don't wanna fire friendly fire at at at them in a practice the way they would during a game.

Yeah. You're you're you're dead on with that. That that is probably one of the hardest things to replicate what you would see in a game. We talked about this in training camp before the season starts all the time. You know, just how when we start playing those preseason games, that's one area that, you know, is gonna take some adjusting because you're gonna get real live traffic and flash screens and guys coming through and, you know, all that hard stuff that those guys have to deal with.

You know, we have the we have the traffic dummies and and all that kind of stuff, but they're, you know, they're stationary. They're not moving. You know? But, again, you just try to replicate, and you don't wanna put players in front because some guys are gonna take one off the ankle, and you're gonna feel like crap because they're doing a goalie drill and the guy's ankle is all busted up. But, you just try to do your best and replicate that, with with kind of the training tools that you have.

But, yeah, you're right. There's just some things you it's it's hard in practice to replicate, you know, and that that's definitely one area that is.

That's one that where I it's the one where I really wonder if we'll see more attempts to use. You talk about tools. The NHL Sense Arena talking to guys about Yeah. Because it's the one spot where you still everything moves like it would in a game. Nobody's getting hurt.

And even if the save execution isn't always the same, like, especially down low, the just the ability to find it through traffic. Talked to guys that have have used it during the break. I think that's one where we might see that development.

Yeah. That that that's a good idea for sure.

Is has traffic is that one of the we we talk about East West, Paul. Like, the game's become so dynamic. We know how good the shooters are, the deception, how much they try and manipulate side to side. But is traffic in the way teams sort of the difficulty and the purposefulness with which they try and manipulate goalie eyes with screens and stuff? Is that the maybe the hardest part to especially for a new goalie to come into the league and learn?

Yeah. I I would say I mean, you'd have to ask, you know, somebody that is maybe a first year NHL goalie, but I know just in talking with some of the guys that I've had, you know, just the the traffic is something that they really have to adjust with. And then, you know, you got some guys that are six five, you got some guys that are five eleven, You know? And they're gonna kinda approach it a different way. You know?

Those those taller guys can get, you know, into that high stance a little bit more and and maybe see over top of guys where the where the smaller goalie maybe has to, you know, have to look around guys instead of over them. You know, guys like Dustin Wolf and Saros, I I love watching those guys in in traffic. I have such respect for their game and and how they they find a way to find pucks, but it's it's difficult. Guys are big. You know, you got big bodies in front of your net, and then you got your d in front trying to box out the other team, and it it it's hard.

You know? You gotta it's it's an art, really. It's an art to find that puck. It's something you gotta practice and and figure out what you're comfortable with. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's you have to find the puck.

Whether it's a high stance, mid stance, whatever you wanna call it, your job's to find the puck. But it it is it's just I don't it's always gonna be difficult, and and that's why teams do it. You know? It's get bodies to the net, get pucks to the net, and take away the goalie's eyes. And, you know, it's it's just one area that is always, in my mind, gonna be difficult.

Is it an area where, like, we talk a lot about reads? Obviously, we do ProReads, and we try and focus on that for young kids. But is it an area where it's just about experience? Like, there are tactical things that you can do, as you said, depending on your size and and strengths. There are probably technical components.

But at the end of the day, it's about the experience of knowing, you know, when to do what.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, lot the the more the more you do anything, especially that, and the more looks you get, and the more reps you get, you're gonna figure out what works for you, and what gives you the best chance to to to stop the puck in that certain, you know, like you said, the traffic in the bodies. Yeah.

The more reps, you're gonna figure it out, and and hopefully, you you know, you find something that helps you have some sort of success.

We've had guys say that and and this might be a question. I I don't know if young goalies, because you're dealing with the best of the best in the NHL, but we hear a lot that maybe young goalies don't watch enough hockey. Have you have you like, I I don't know how much. Have you still get any touches with younger goalies in the summers or anything, but is that something you've noticed as well? Like, when we if the game if if we need to learn and improve our goalie IQ is just simply watching hockey, something more goalies need to do, or can you can you study it?

Can you study clips? Do you guys use video to learn how to read?

Yeah. I mean, I I agree. The the the younger generation seems to be more of the highlights Right. Versus, like, watching the whole game. That that is something for sure that I've noticed.

I'll take a guy, for example, like PK, I you know, he's here with us. Watches a ton of hockey and a ton of goaltending, and and he's always up to date with different ways to get some like, he'll come to me and say, hey. Did you see, you know, whatever last night, that goal that went in, you know, or the or the save? And he's he's he's very in tune with with what's going around, what's going on in the league. And and, personally, I I I do think that when you watch, you know, when you watch the game and the goalie and and I'm no different, to be honest with you.

Like, when I'm at when I when, I'm at my games, you know, I'm watching the goalie to see what they do and studying them. It's not just my guy. You know? Because you can learn. Like, you you can you never stop learning.

So for the young younger goalies, I think just taking the time to actually watch the game and study the position is is very useful.

I was gonna say, Piotr's a InGoal subscriber. So

He is. Yeah.

The fact he's a a passionate, you know well, I'd say this with the utmost goalie geek. We love goalie geeks.

Yeah. Yeah. He definitely he definitely is. I I don't know if, he he might have to get his I know his fiancee speaks very good English, so she might have to translate a little bit. But, yeah.

No. What you guys do is definitely right up his alley, and and he loves he loves all that stuff, which is great. So yeah. No. It's awesome.

What let me ask you one. What because we again, we see strengths and weaknesses. You've had some guys over the years who can really handle it. You had you had Ned there for a while, one of the best. We just watched the Olympics and how you know, I I thought one of the maybe overlooked elements going into this was how well Jordan Binnington handled the puck.

I don't think anybody talked about that in terms of, you know, strengths and weaknesses going into the tournament. What it's a big general question, but what what makes a good puck handling goalie these days? It it's it's not just about the breakout sauce.

No. It's not actually. And, again, not to bring his name back up. Like, Kochetkov loves to play the puck. He loves to get out there and play the puck.

Now earlier, you know, not that he's been around for a a real long time, but earlier in his NHL career, he valued more of, like, the fancy stretch pass and trying to hit the, you know, hit a guy up the middle and just be really risky with how he was doing it. Right? And what I told him was, what makes you great at playing the puck, one, is that you're willing to do it. You're willing to leave the net and go behind the net. But less is more.

You know? We the the reason why you're doing it is to help our DE help get out of the zone as quick as possible so we're not under pressure. We're we're not wasting time in our zone. So if you go behind the net and you try to make a fancy player, a fancy pass, and we end up getting hemmed in our zone for three minutes, that's not a good you're not good at playing the puck. But if you go behind the net, you make a simple five foot pass to your defenseman in the corner, and the defenseman hits the winger right over zone, you know, that's great.

Right? So I think what makes a good puck handler definitely is somebody that's just willing to do it and and has the confidence to do it. You're gonna make mistakes. You know, you're gonna turn it over, but don't, you know, don't stop. Just keep keep getting out there.

And and and do it's one of the areas actually coming into the NHL that I I didn't value enough, to be honest with you.

Okay.

And just kinda being through it now, just seeing the value of it and how important it is, and really, like, trying to integrate it more in what we do in practice and stuff like that. Just try to stay sharp and be as effective as possible with doing it. You can you see the goalies in the league. You know, some of these guys are unbelievable at getting I mean, talked about Binner, like, even in the game today, you know, how many times you stop like a hard rim and just kinda relieve the pressure that he got the puck, they got out of the zone. It's huge, right, if you can do that for your team.

But like you said, it's not about how high you can shoot a puck. You know, can you shoot it from your net over the red line? It it's just about how how simple you can help your team get out of the zone and and make smart smart hockey IQ plays to to help your team get out, and and and it's it's simple as simple goes a long way in terms of that.

I was just gonna say, sometimes just being the guy that makes the stop and like a leave. A leave that allows your defenseman to skate onto it instead of having to peel it off a wall with a defort checker on them is a huge difference maker.

Yeah. 100. And you see, you know, you see guys that will let rims go that they probably could have got, but they just don't have the confidence to do it. They they're, you know, they're a little bit timid, and they they don't wanna, you know, quote, unquote, make a mistake by going back out there, but it's a rim they should have got. And a lot of times, it leads to, you know, pressure in the zone.

So it sounds like skating still right. It comes right back to skating. Like, brand is edge work and and Yeah. And the ability to get around the crease. Is that for young kids, is that where where we'd keep the focal points as much as everybody loves the fancy drills flying around?

Whether it's Carey Price saying the same thing, crease movement patterns, that's where it all starts?

Yeah. A 100%. Again, that's what I believe in. You know? It's just such a vital part of your game.

The better you can move around, the better you are on your edges and balance, you can put that work in before the shot and then the shot comes the easy part. But if you struggle with your movement, all of a sudden everything becomes harder.

And and it really it makes it makes goaltending easier. Not that it's an easy position to play, but the better you can move around, the better you are on your edges and and balance, You know, you can put that work in before the shot and then the shot comes the easy part. You know, that becomes more of the easy part. But if you struggle with your movement, you know, all of a sudden everything becomes harder. And that save execution becomes harder because you don't quite make it there the right way.

So, yeah, the skating part for me is is is again, it's it's the backbone of of their game and and really the foundation of what's gonna help them be successful.

That's funny because we we're talking dinner because we we just watched. And as as Hockey Canada guys, tough day for us today watching watching the Americans win the gold medal, but Connor Hellebuyck exceptional. And we just had an article where he was not drafted in the USHL or NAHL. And so what does he do? He drags buddies out and works on his skating, takes a few shots, but sometimes just went out there by himself, worked on his skating, had a stick and puck or a public drop in.

So the the power of movement is huge in goaltending at every level.

Yeah. And and to speak on that too, there's just the, you know, just the the the willingness to work on your craft.

Right.

You know? And just be you know, have that hunger to get better. You know? Like you said, maybe he doesn't have shooters to go out there, but the ice is there, and there's something we can be doing to get better. You know?

And and just to have that, you know, the ability to wanna work on your craft is huge.

I guess as much as goalie coaching is is a big professional, and there's so many schools. And at the end of the day, sometimes you can't rely only on somebody else to drive that development for you.

Yeah. No. For sure.

Do you see that? A lot of your like, lot of the guys that make it have that extra drive?

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You you have to. And, you know, again, I I'm a big fan of the podcast and not to I don't wanna you know, like, I I listen to a guy like Ian Clark said, you have to be your best goalie coach.

You have to have that drive. You have to have that willingness to get better, and you can't rely on someone like me to always be there to tell you to pick it up. You have to be really your own goalie coach.

Right? So, I mean, you gotta, you know, you gotta have that drive. You gotta have that that willingness to get better, and you can't rely on someone like me to always be there to, you know, tell you to pick it up or let's go or, you know, let's work on this. Let's you have to be really your best your best goalie your own goalie coach. Right?

So you have to have that willingness. And the guys that don't, you know, a lot of times, you just don't get better. You know? They're they're just stagnant. They don't get better.

But the guys that have that, they find ways to to get it done.

Well, it's funny, and we're just listing off, like, some of the names at the top of the league, like Brandon, you know, Logan Thompson. Yep. All guys that maybe didn't get there early, but when they got there, they were ready because of the work that went into that process.

For sure. Yeah. They're prepared. And when when the you know, hey. Listen.

Do you need a little bit of little bit of luck along the way? For sure. You you need the opportunity as well. And when you like, a true opportunity to play, not not just one game and, you know, maybe it doesn't go well, and then you don't really get an opportunity again. But, you know, those guys that you mentioned and and Boss being one that obviously I see every day got the opportunity.

He put the work in and was rewarded.

Last one for you. I recall a great article. 2020. It's been six years, Paul, since we had clean your mental filter

Yeah.

At ingoalmag.com. Still up there. The mental side of the game with these guys, like the positive reinforcement, constantly building their confidence and what they're good at is part of it. One of the challenges in Carolina is you guys aren't often the busiest group, but you see a lot of quality. Yep.

Any advice? Because that's, like, that's another thing I'm not sure Bennington got enough credit for. That's not the easiest job in the world. That's something I think your guys face a lot. Had any tips on helping them through that?

Do they need to find it themselves? Themselves? Are Are there there things mentally that each one has to discover, or do you help lead them into it?

Yeah. Maybe a little bit of everything. And and just to touch on that game today, that is one thing that I really appreciate from from Bennington is, you know, there was times where you went three or four minutes without seeing any work. And then to top it off, you're standing there and watching the other guy, who's making save after save after save. And I don't think people can realize how you can get inside your own head when when that's happening.

And I appreciate the ability for him to go two or three minutes without any work at all and then get a grade a shot and come up with a save. I mean, that's extremely difficult. It might it might Might

be one of the hardest things in goaltending.

Yeah. It really is. And and it it obviously might not be physically demanding, but mentally demanding. It's it's it's it's it's hard. And you're right.

Like, we that's what we deal with here. I know we play such a great defensive system, and, you know, I give a lot of credit to our our coaching staff and and the players, how they stick to stick to the the game plan, and but we don't allow a lot of, you know, perimeter outside kinda gimme shots, the feel good stuff. It's, you know, quite a quite a bit of high danger. And it, you know, I will say there's I've had guys over the years that it's taken some time for them to get used to. Right?

The mental filter thing, I still use it. You know? All those negative thoughts that you get, you have to you have to just let them go. And it and and all this stuff that we talk about on the mental side of the game, it's easier said than done. Right?

Right.

One one shot at a time is really easy from my couch. It's hard in reality when you have to see one for five minutes.

Yeah. For sure. And, you know, you are gonna develop your own mental system on how to deal with adversity. Everybody's gonna be different. Everybody thinks the game different.

Adversity hits everybody different. Right? So you have to you have to find that I know people use the word like flow state, you know, get back to the place that's gonna help you perform the best. Right? But not seeing work is is very difficult and and the amount of negative thoughts that can go through your head, you have to find a way to just don't give those thoughts any life.

You know, stay positive. A lot of these things, again, are are cliche cliche, but they're hard. Stay positive. Believe in your game. You know, we talk about with certain guys, get out, play the puck.

Like, if you're not if you're not getting shots, try to get involved. Like, just try to feel like you're involved in the game. Be vocal. But it is difficult. And and I will admit it's still something that, you know, I study every day, the mental side, and and try to find ways to help my goalies, you know, mentally, just find find that that space where they can perform at their best.

Is there, like, some guys with, like, writing things on their sticker and their blocker or even having keywords that bring them back to good state thoughts? Some guys divide periods into different segments. Just get through the five minutes. Don't worry about the twenty. Are there any that you found work?

Or is it all individual? They have to do you tell them when they find it which one works for them? Or do

Yeah. You know, one thing that that I find works is is especially when you're not facing a lot of shots. I think any any goalie would say when they make that big highlight real save, that's gonna give them confidence. Right? Yeah.

But when you're not getting a lot of work, you may not have the opportunity to make those types of saves. I mean, there's times where the puck's in our zone, they may be moving, you know, three or four times and not even receive a shot. Right? Right. So tell yourself, like, don't wait for the big save to gain gain confidence.

Don't wait for the big save to gain confidence. Gain confidence off the basics. Gain confidence off the small things.

Gain confidence off the basics. Gain confidence off the small things. So maybe there's an east west path and you get there, your feet are set, your stance is good, tell yourself like, hey, that was good. You know, I don't need to make the big glove save or the big stretch saves to to feel that confidence. Build off the small things, Especially when you're not getting a lot of work, you you gotta be able to build off the small things to build that confidence.

Love it. I love it. Paul, this has been great, man. I've been keeping you more than longer than I said I would, and, that's a bad habit of mine. But when the information is flowing as nicely as this, I I can't stop asking questions.

Thank you so much for taking

the time to do I know we're

getting back into busy season. It it means a lot to us.

Yeah. Likewise. And and, tell all the boys they said hi, and, we'll we'll chat at some point.

Outro

Pretty cool conversation to how he balances, those different goalie styles.

Yeah. And a lot of it, as you heard, is empowering them. Not trying to dictate to them, getting to know their styles, their strengths, what they like, what they need. As you heard, different warm ups on game day depending on who's starting. They've all got different preferences.

So he's gotta make sure he delivers the warm up because a lot of like, there's so much that goes into that job, but one of the big things is just making them feel good. And so you have to know what it is that sort of makes it what what drills get them feeling confident and good about their game.

How rare do you think that is or unique is that?

It's a really good question. It might spark a might might spark an article down the road. I know there are some goalie coaches that have their things, and this is how we do it. And there's a reason for it, and you do it. I think there will be flexibility with most in the National Hockey League.

But in terms of a different one for each of the three different guys, that's a really good question. I I think it might be more unique than we know. But now now I gotta find out. Now I get now and that's you got the thinking cap on. Maybe maybe I just don't notice the nuances.

And you have to have goaltenders who are really different to to be able to factor that in.

Yeah. I mean I mean, they have different strengths and weaknesses, but in terms of what, you know, like, what drills make them feel good on a game day, think they they do all he talked about the staples that they do that'll look a lot like other guys. It's just there's always crease movement. There's always static shooting and catching and true tracking as he called it. But how you set up the crease movement might be different from one guy to the other based on their preferences or how they're feeling or what they're working on.

So I just I just enjoyed you know, it wasn't about him dictating. It was about him working with them, and that's how you have success working with goalies who play a bunch of different styles. Also, some great answers there at the end about how do you help your goalie who isn't busy and is struggling with it. Right? Because that's a major thing in Carolina.

They don't see a lot of shots. And so how do you stay engaged? How do you stay focused when there's long gaps? It'd be interesting too. We talked about the the Olympics.

He he pointed right to Jordan Binnington as that was one of the most impressive parts of his performance in these Olympics. His ability to stay on top of his game when there were long, large gaps in between shots, including in the gold medal game. So I had some great tips at the end there about that as well.

The gaps aren't bad. It's when the gap ends, but the the challenge occurs.

I hear you, my friend. Especially when they especially and and to his point about hell, especially when they got the other end stopping bullets in his teeth. Right? Because it's real easy for that thought to pop into your head. Oh, man.

I better stop the next one. Or I or or or worse, I can't give one up now. That that's the like, now, you know, now we're getting into Pete Fry and the the the image your mind makes out of that statement itself.

I'm so fragile when it comes to that.

Oh, I'm I'm softest. I'm I'm like that that warm stick of butter that Carey Price feels like when he's sticking his his hand in a in a freshly, you know, skate oven glove. I'm soft. I'm soft.

Olympic trade freeze up. Do we expect movement when it comes to net matters between now and March 6 and the NHL trade deadline?

It's a good question. Trying to think of anybody that might have guys coming back not a 100%. I'd be curious to I'd be care I'm really curious to see who comes back from the Olympics and maybe isn't quite ready to go. That might play a factor in it. But beyond that, I think we've seen our deals.

I think a lot of teams went to school on what Colorado did last year. Right? Like, Edmonton rejigged its goaltending early. They you know, you can make changes, but waiting until the trade deadline, especially this year, it's just not enough starts left in the season for a goalie to get truly comfortable behind a new team, especially if they've never been traded before and gone through it. So, and that's the other thing with Bennington, the reads and how aggressive he is.

Like, I, you know, I wonder if he's a guy that, you know, would need to spend a little more time with the team before you get the best out of him. And and I I just said that, and yet how much time did he have with the Olympic team? So I it's interesting. I just think there's a lot of teams that have realized that waiting till the trade deadline to make a goal to any change is probably waiting too long.

Good stuff. Enjoy Hawaii.

One more day. Red eye.

That's it?

One more day and then red eye back and then oh, yeah. Connor Hellebuyck's coming to Vancouver if the jets bring him on this road trip, which will be kinda cool. I gotta say as as somebody who's gotten to follow his career and be behind the scenes in some of the summer activities that he's done. You're really happy happy for Connor Hellebuyck, and it would be really cool to get to see him in person and just hear some of some of his perspective on how how it all went down. So fingers crossed, folks, that we have a a taste of that next week.

Although, given their flights coming home and the games on Wednesday on the other side of the country, I'm not sure we'll get him here. But if he is, I'll try my best to at least get a few questions in for for our audience.

Look forward to it. Aloha, my friend.

Thank you, sir.