InGoal Radio Episode 288 with former long-time Dallas Stars goalie coach Mike Valley

Intro

Presented by our friends over at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. So happy to be back with you on InGoal Radio, the podcast, Daren Millard with Kevin Woodley and David Hutchison. We gotta get right into it. We got so much coming up today with our parent segment, some homework there for the crew, the Gear Segment, the feature interview, Vizual Edge ProReads. But Alex Nedeljkovic scored a goalie goal last week.

And ladies and gentlemen, we've raised the bar on a goalie goal with what he did in that game. And may I say, he was kind of robbed because if he does that at the intermission of a Chicago Blackhawks game, he also wins the showcase because that thing was right in the middle of it. It would have went through that little space. It was such a good shot. But Alex Nedeljkovic with his fourth career goalie goal as a professional.

Only a matter of time before we got one in the show. We kinda have said that. Every time we've written about goalie goals, we have sort of reached out to Ned to be a voice in those conversations because we knew that it would it was only a matter of time before he got one. Right? Like, one in the ECHL, two in the American League.

Chuck's it as well as anyone, make smart decisions with it, and the degree of difficulty on his, you know, we've had a bunch of late, and it's clearly a trend. We're gonna see more. We've outlined that in the stories we've written about it since Gustavson goal earlier this year. First time we've ever had two in the same season. But his degree of difficulty corralling the puck behind the net, coming out the other side and chucking it compared to the all the previous three being above the goal line, knocking down or poor dumping attempts, that, like, just raises the bar for me.

And yet I'm not surprised that given all those factors, he still hits it center cut, give this man a car.

And let's not forget the history making part of this. Aside from being the only guy to do it in all three pro leagues, he got an apple on the night too. So the only guy ever to get an assist and a goal in a game as a goaltender. How many people have speculated he should have jumped somebody right after that?

Gordie Howe hat trick. Gordie Howe hat Yes. I think it's the goal of Gordie Howe hat trick.

The w, the goal, the assist.

And a 40 save w, wasn't it? So

That's the part that's really the icing on the cake. Yeah. That doesn't get referenced enough. Well done. That gets

yeah. And as we said, when we talked about Tristan Jarry and maybe a little bit of scapegoating there in Pittsburgh last week, the worst defensive environment in the NHL. So, of course, he had to make 40 saves in order to get the win and set up the offense the other way.

Maybe if he gets a shut out, it's a goalie how hat trick.

Goalie how. Look at you pun.

Yeah. I like that. Thank you. We've all seen it, the listeners and, and the three of us. The degree of difficulty that Woody talked about, it came it was a rim to his backhand, so he had to stop it there and then quickly turn around and shoot out.

It's it's one of the best goalie goals from a execution standpoint that I've ever seen all time.

That was I mean, like I said, it was legit. Not surprised that he's the one that does it. Right? Like, it was only a matter of time before he got an easy one. Like, somebody make a mistake.

I guess you you have to actually be up a couple, but it's all you know, like, he was getting one. But, again, the fact that he did it the the hard way, so to speak, like, I don't think he's done. He'll I think he'll have more in his career. I also don't think this is the first time we've ever had, as I mentioned, two scored in the same season by a goalie. I don't think we're done.

Shesterkin didn't miss I mean, he was a little wide, but he got everything on it and had a good look a couple nights later. Askarov's establishing himself in the league. He can chuck it. Like, there are so many of these young guys that can hit that shot. And for a lot of different reasons, their opportunities to do so are increasing.

So I wouldn't be surprised if we see another goalie goal before the end of the season.

It was posed to me this way. Will it become normal? That's my my fear.

Right? Not fear. Like

I don't think it does.

Is three two two a season isn't normal. Like but, like, I was there when Linus Ullmark did it. And so in the dying moments of that game, I'm scrambling to look up the stats. And I remember walking into the room for the Bruins because I'd managed to get all the numbers into my story before I go to the room. And then I've got the numbers, and I I don't remember them now off top of my head because I'd probably taken too many pucks since then to the head.

But I think it was eight. Like, to be able to walk in that room and say to Linus Ullmark, like, dude, what does it feel like to be, like, the eighth guy in the history of this league to shoot a puck into the net? Like, a lot of guys have been credited for goals, but to actually shoot a puck into the net. And he, like, kinda paused in that moment, like, recognizing how rare it was, and it still is. But you're right, Daren.

If we get two or three a year on a regular basis, it becomes this is the first time in the NHL history we've had three consecutive seasons where a goalie has shot a puck into a net. So Well, I think we're still

a long way from it becoming normal, like commonplace.

Very much so.

But But that Well, it's not We're not gonna start seeing five, seven, eight, ten a year.

No. It's freaking hard to do.

It's hard to do, and teams are probably not giving you that opportunity too often. I mean, whether it's throwing at the guy for an easy catch and drop or dumping it in on the rim, you've got a man advantage, so the game is more about possession and carrying the puck into the zone. I don't think they're gonna give guys as many chances that it'll become too too normal, but everybody coming up can shoot.

Yeah. And that's so that'll be the thing. Right? Like, teams as it becomes more common, it will become even more difficult. More guys will have to do what Ned does because teams will be that much more careful about how they manage those dump ins.

Like, that'll become part of the instruction. Hey. You cannot on the we get to say you know, when they call the time out at six when they pull the goalie and it's it's six on five, hey. You can't. You gotta keep it away from the goalie.

It's gotta

be You can't do what they they did against Gustafson and give him a free shot.

Shoot it right to him. Right. Right. And Jarry's was somewhat the same, and and Ullmark's deflected off a stick. Like, it's also not every dump in goes in unimpeded.

Right?

I'm glad you guys see it the same way. Now here's my follow-up question coming back. What will we see more of per year? Goalie goals or Michigan goals?

Oh, that might that's I mean, do you see the save Vasilevsky made on Austin Matthews trying to Michigan the other night? Like, got the shoulder right up to the crossbar. No no no dice for you, Austin. That's a really good we see how many Michigan goals have we seen this year, Daren?

I don't think we have. No. Matvey Michkov tries twice a week. We we see attempts all the time. You mentioned the Matthews.

I I do see players going down that path. We haven't necessarily seen a seen a Michigan goal, but they're they're both very exciting and highlight driven plays when they do happen. But I don't know what we'll see more of.

If you're allowed to lump in other Michigan like attempts, then there'll be more. You know, like the over the net or the puck that bounces off the back of the goaltender on purpose. Or I think I think somebody even told me there was a it might have been the KHL, but there was a shootout where there was a Michigan like sort of lacrosse shot in the shootout as well. We included some of the sort of hot doggy moves that I quite frankly enjoy. We're gonna see more of those, I think.

But goalies start to learn to read these things. I mean, the the Michigan was a surprise, and that's why it was useful. The thing is at leagues below junior college, they often don't have almost never have the proper pegs, and that's very hard to play that the way Vasilevsky played it unless you have the proper pegs. So you're gonna have a lot of kids who can execute that at lower levels coming up.

I think we'll see Michigan goals. Yeah. We're on we're on a nice run. We're on a nice run for the goalers. I like that.

But I still think the the opportunities are going to be there for just there's 600 players versus There's that too. Michigan can happen at any point. It's not limited to Up by two minutes. Yeah. Of every game.

Yeah.

Yeah. The opportunities are certainly more. I'm I'm still sitting here stunned at goalie Howe hat trick. I can't believe Hutch didn't pull that up in real time. We could have been famous.

That might be my son's. I'm sure I stole it, and I think I stole it from my son. So let's give Matty credit for that one.

I don't think I saw that anywhere on the night that Ned did that. That would have been gold.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I think that was Matthew.

Does Ned walk away with three pucks on that? One for the assist because they save every puck after every goal. So he can he can get access to that. He gets the game puck, and he gets the goal puck. Pretty good.

Not bad. Nice little shadow box.

I the shadow box would say goalie howe hat trick in the in the that's what I would have etched on the on the lettering underneath the

Alright. Well, get over to Etsy and, and crank it out. The T shirt. Right?

You're the person. Somebody's gonna make some money now. Care.

Yeah. Off you. Well, we we got a time stamp on this thing. We gotta put this episode out right away. On the other side of there's one uniqueness with the play of the the goalie goal, and then you've got what happened in Edmonton between the Capitals and the Oilers.

And the Oilers scored a goal with a array of nachos that had been thrown on the ice by by an Oiler fan. And Logan Thompson said he he was slightly distracted. He's gotta learn to play through. That's on him. Now he's he won the game, so it was great.

But Never looked at this. In the building. Nobody nobody in the building had ever seen that before where a play had gone sort of around a collection of food on the ice.

No. I didn't see. Yeah. I didn't see it as to whether it actually went around it. The I I

Well, it was it was there. They didn't interfere with the play.

Yeah. I mean, that's there there is a rule because I guess Thompson said he didn't know if there was a rule, but there is a rule saying that if something is thrown on the ice, if it's gonna interfere with the play, the officials have to blow it dead, deemed that this wasn't going to, interfere with the play. I thought it was interesting. As you said, first, full credit to Logan Thompson for owning it and saying he needs to be dialed in on that and just deal with it. Full credit to him.

I thought it was interesting. He actually said that he saw the guy who threw it.

K. I'm calling him out on that one.

I I'm not surprised.

The the no. What's he doing looking in the stands? Why is he looking in the stands to see somebody throwing nachos? I he's had an amazing season.

But Hey, man. When this plays at the other end, you gotta you gotta widen the focus. And then when dial it back in, you can't focus for the entire sixty minutes. You gotta zoom out and then zoom back in when it matters.

A guy with only a guy with only two regular season losses so far has probably taken in more than the puck when he's scanning the rink.

It's like the matrix for him right now. Yep. Best numbers in the league.

I love that comparison. That that that's good. That a great analogy. LT, call me. Text me.

We wanna find the guy. We we got we got something here.

There may have a second spinner.

I'm I'm calling out on on actually seeing the guy. But, like, the record, the performance this year, I didn't think anybody was coming close to Connor Hellebuyck.

Right right now, his goal saved above expected at Clearsight is actually better than Connor Hellebuyck and in a smaller sample. So his per shot adjusted save percentage is the best in the NHL and significantly ahead of Connor Hellebuyck. His per shot results right now, you know, sort of performance relative to environment, is in the territory of when he was up for the heart. That's how good he is right now.

And in a sport so dominated by narratives, will the GMs vote for him over Connor Hellebuyck? I mean, there's a lot more runway still. But if the vote was held today?

Hey. Listen. And I I I would have trouble arguing against Connor Hellebuyck because we said the other day, like, all the things he's doing we've had the discussion about shutouts before, but as many shutouts as as as regulation losses, The way his team plays, I think, is inspired by Connor. You talk about puck handling. Hellebuck's even improved his puck handling.

Right? So there's a lot like, I don't wanna make it an either or, but it's just full credit to Logan Thompson. Nobody had this on their bingo card going into the year.

I was just Well, it's not gonna be unanimous anymore.

I was just setting Woody up for a standard Woody rant about the NHL GMs, but, you've obviously gotten up early enough and had enough coffee today that you are feeling good.

and feeling good. I don't expect them to make the right decision either way, but that the the reality is they'll vote on the narrative, and it'll be Hellebuyck. At least like, I think like, forget me and what I make of the GM's decisions. The betting markets know these guys better than anyone. Last time I checked, Hellebuyck was, like, plus 4,000.

Like, it was like nobody else is winning this award. You'd be insane. Now that means you can probably get some really good odds on Logan Thompson. Right? Maybe we bet my house, and then I start, you know, hammering away at those narratives.

There's not a bad choice between the two of them right now.

No. No. Logan's in and and now with Charlie going out and Charlie's back, but with Charlie getting clipped and having the the head injury and missing a couple starts and giving them a reason, like, okay. We're gonna go away from they were going every second game. They were in a straight rotation up until that injury.

And now Logan's getting a little runway. And he goes into Edmonton, yeah, McDavid wasn't there. I'm assuming the plate of Nachos was thrown on the ice as a protest to his suspension. I have no idea, but, there was probably I I guess that fan didn't I'm assuming they had a moment of silence there given the way they've reacted to it. So the the plate of Nachos moment of silence wasn't enough for that fan.

But 3-2 over the Oilers, he doesn't lose. It's just an it's an incredible story. I'm looking forward to catching up with them when they come into town. Him and Dustin Wolf, the goaltending coach, he gets an opportunity to run with it, and he continues to do what he's doing. And, again, what he's done through half a season is a historic pace of excellence, and then we are definitely having a conversation by the end of the year.

Just do me a favor. Okay? Because I I worry about the the equipment that InGoal has purchased for you. You you drip some sarcasm there on on the keyboard, and I don't want it to leak into the to the hard drive.

It landed on my phone, and and I could use a new phone anyways.

Okay. I just I I don't want you to just disappear in the in the middle of this thing. The the the nachos? Like, there were still nachos in the tray on the ice. That doesn't bode well.

Throw too. It doesn't bode well for how much that cheese is dried and hardened and stuck them to the plate.

Right. And and that's not that's not cheap. Those nachos aren't cheap.

Speaking of junior hockey promo contests, I mean, you had Ned firing the puck down to the other end to center cup for the between period promo. I don't maybe the Edmonton Oil Kings or some other junior team needs to seize on this and have a nacho chucking contest in in the intermission.

I've seen waffles tossed Really? During a low point during the Leafs. On a Maple Leafs Yep. Run. That that became a regular thing.

We've obviously seen fish in Nashville and octopus in in Detroit. Rats. Think of

rats in But rats and octopus were celebratory. Same with the the best thing to me was the Hamburglar. Right? Yes. That was good too.

Hamburgers, but that was celebratory too. And I was just gonna say, like, Corey Perry should have gone, like

Gone taking a bite?

Full Curtis Lazar. Remember when Curtis Lazar went out and, like, grabbed one of the Hamburglar hamburgers off the ice and took a bite postgame after a dub? So listen. We're just having fun with it, folks.

And I know that's a bit

with Edmonton's reaction to a certain suspend.

The weather's marketing department is missing an opportunity if they don't have a T shirt out by the end of the week with a tray of nachos.

Just like we're missing an opportunity if we don't have a T shirt out with Goalie Howe hat trick. Let's check check

check whether there's to think to myself before I say it to make sure I'm saying it right.

Goalie how Patrick. I love it. I love it. Barstool's gonna have a T shirt out by the end of the day.

Not not if he gets on to Etsy. They focus right now. Hutch, get over to Etsy.

Got nothing nothing else to do. I'll just get into my T shirt mode here.

Well, we'll do it with the Darcy Keumper T shirt. Do remember? Because I said his silhouette when I said he looked like a goalie and then immediately regret it and then said his silhouette is what a goalie should look like on a T shirt. We'll do them both.

I just need a T shirt that says you look like a goalie.

I'm looking forward to the Four Nations Face-Off. I wanna get into some of the real weeds of of the NHL season, with the with the NHL goalies during the Four Nations Face-Off where we'll be able to take a step back, watch the international hockey, but also, dig into some stuff. Well, there's not games happening every second night. Now let's, slide over to our Gear Segment brought to you by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. Cam and Company cranking it out.

I was on the website the other day like I am twice a week, just looking at things.

New and what you would find on that website right now, Daren, a lot of new stuff like the Vaughn VX 1 line that we've been profiling for the last couple of weeks. The new True PX5, we've already done a video with the pads. We've got more coming there. You would find the new True stick in stock. So there's new stuff coming in all the time.

The the market is kinda shifting. Companies are not waiting till April and May to release new lines, and that bodes well for people that are trying to get a jump start on what they might purchase next, but it also bodes well for the sales that are constantly on at the hockey shop. And I don't mean constantly in terms of them trying to get rid of stuff, but the reality of all the new lines that are coming means they need to clear space. 35,000 plus square feet at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley, not enough room for all the goalie equipment that they've ordered coming in for 2025, and that means there's a lot of previous generations of equipment that are on sale now. Savings have been carried over from boxing week, boxing day.

I don't we've explained that already to our American listeners what that is. It's like our Canadian version of Black Friday. Those sales are still on, so make sure you check them out at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports in Langley or the Hockey Shop as darendoes.com for all the great savings and all the newest gear, including in stock now. We're gonna talk about it today, a pant that has inspired NHL goalies to switch in its recent iterations, the Vaughn VX 1. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports.

Gear

We're in Goalie Topia with Cam Matwiv. I'm so happy to be back. I choked up.

I am. Excuse me.

I'm just flying by the seat of your pants. Right?

Yeah.

Ladies and gentlemen

The year is too early. I promise to be nice to you in 2025, Cam, and you push the buttons like that. Let's just go straight to the product. Vaughn, VX1, we talked about the pads and gloves last week. Yes.

V 11 for some people. V X1 pants, Velocity Pro Carbon. Yes. Very popular in the national hockey league. Very.

In large part, because of the double flaps. We've told the story, but I don't think shared the name of one NHL goaltender that switched to these pants after watching this segment the first time Yes. Vaughn brought this out. We're moving the needle, baby. Good. You know? Alright.

I pushed it.

So how is Vaughn moving the needle by pushing this new model forward? We've still got NHL legal nine inch legs. Right? You're doing great, man.

Like, in

I got to say You've already called out the double flaps. Double flaps. Called out the nine inch barrel.

Okay. So what's new? I mean, the the fit and finish is really nice. We've got the, you know, the the same material that you almost called by a different brand.

Quick slide?

Quick slide in in different parts, high wear. What's this on the back?

Moving over.

A little extra padding and a I I can hold on. I can read.

Cut guard.

I love this. I think this is great, and I think every brand should take notice and add something like this. It's not

So, Cam, I I love that you love it. What the hell is it?

Cut protection. That's exactly what it says it is.

So just to, like, in this area here?

So that lower part of the back of your thigh. Now this is a very specific situation where you might get it, but, however, a lot of guys as they're swinging and recovering can catch themselves in the back of the leg as they're swinging and recovering up. So having that extra cut protection back there is an area that is exposed. Like, you really don't have anything back there. So having that extra shield, having that extra protection, I think, is a great, great, great idea.

Sounds to me like somebody's kicked himself in the back of the leg before.

I have. You have too. You know it.

I usually get it lower actually down around the calf, which is why I make sure I wear cut proof socks.

See. You know, hey. We're we're literally around on ice, skating around on ice. K? So anything we can do to make sure that we protect ourselves, great, great, great idea.

K. Continuing on with the pants itself and some of the new features. So that pet guard, we covered that. We already talked about that dual flaps in terms of that

protection. Nice.

They are very nice, very flexible too as well. They've redesigned

Right out of the box. Hey. Like, lots of mobility.

Exactly. Exactly. So we've always kind of equated these pants to a bit of that gym short fit. I would say the SLR is a little bit more of that gym short. That said, this has no internal belt, a little bit more cut rounded as a barrel style.

Because, of course, an internal internal belt would be illegal in the NHL.

Yes. No. No good.

No problem. They are good

depending on Easy. The Easy.

Easy. So looking at the actual hip flexion of the pant itself, so this is something they've added more segmentation to this year.

A little more mobility?

Yeah. It's but it also creates a little bit more of a tapered fit to a bit of a degree as well. So say you do hammer on that waist belt a little bit more, that is going to suck in around your waist a little bit more, or you can leave it loose, widen it out, create that room for that tuck in.

Vaughn has always been known for mobility in their products. Seems it feels like having not played in them, but that feels like something that's gonna continue here.

Yeah. And and not as a of, like, any protection for sure. Like, this is one thing Very protective. Yeah. At least

Not as I mean, the one caveat, you gotta point it out, like, because it is, you know, NHL legal, which mean and you mentioned the tapered fit. Like, it's smaller. This isn't there are bigger blockier pants if you're not bound by NHL rules that you can buy, but you're not sacrificing protection in this smaller mobile mobile package even if you are sacrificing a little bit of blocking space.

Correct. So couple more key features to really go over. Another one that's really loved and liked, adding that tab for your knee pads. So you lace in your knee pads into the pant. Do you do that?

No. I don't. Okay. Just curious.

This is, again, preference. You know, nobody can tell you how to exactly wear your gear, but, hey, options are great. Creating that flexibility in terms of those other ways to wear your gear is always a great great idea.

And you can see those extra padding blocks on the inside. Like, it it is really again, like I said, a very popular model in the National Hockey League. This may whether everybody's wearing the brand new one or not, like, this model is very popular, the Velocity Pro Carbon, and they're not gonna wear it if it's not protective when you're facing those shots on a daily basis. So protection is not an issue.

Correct. Aero mesh liner all the way throughout too as well, with the exception of the internal of the thigh because that changes the nylon for those blocks. That said, nice breathable material, nice and lightweight, helps the pant to dry a little bit faster. Last thing to cover, obviously, we talked about protection. Pro Carbon, carbon enhanced protection all the way throughout the pant, you know, especially in those high impact areas.

Other than that

Do you have questions about Yes. Sizing, fit, how it would integrate with different chest protectors depending on what you're wearing now? Just call Cam and his crew.

(604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790 or check us out at the hockeyshop.com.

That's all I got.

That's cool. Little little tweaks to the VX1.

I mean, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Like, there's not a lot that need a change. It's a pro pant. No. I gotta be honest with you.

I'll be perfectly honest. Yeah. I'll pull out the, beer league card. I don't know why as a beer leaguer, I'm picking a pant that's NHL spec that's gonna be narrower on my fat legs and not gonna take up maximum surface area. Like, as a beer leaguer, I wanna cheat as much as I can.

Give me the biggest fattest pad you can. Give me something with an inner belt so I can wear it like I'm a rodeo clown and take up so much space in the net. But the reality is this is a pant that NHL guys said, we we have an NHL guy that switched to this pant after seeing it on our YouTube channel, which is a great reminder, folks. You can go check out all our gear reviews on the YouTube channel, add some visual elements to the audio you just heard. You get to see some of the details that Cam just talked about.

It just sort of creates a more immersive experience, so make sure you check it out over the YouTube channel. I'm with you, Daren. Like, no need to change something that has a lot of goalies in it at the highest levels of the game, and yet for those of us who are nowhere near the highest levels, I might choose something a little bigger and fatter.

Like you always do. You send me down different rabbit holes. What's the biggest, widest pant that you can get?

Oh, that's a good one. K. So I don't know if it's the biggest and widest. Maybe maybe we actually need maybe we just need to go do a measuring at the hockey shop. Like, that actually I think you just invented a gear segment, Daren.

Like Be a good one. Forget it. Forget NHL's backs. Let's let's just see which one is the biggest in each size. I think it might be the Warrior, and it's been a while since we reviewed it.

So I I I wanna sorta you know, folks just call Cam and ask if Kevin is right. Like, just annoy him with those calls. But they used to have it so the the the seam between the front face and the inner thigh was fixed. Right? So it's, like, almost at a right angle, and it was fixed.

It didn't have it didn't have give to it so that when you when your legs came together, essentially, the face of the it's sealed, and the face of the pad just prevented a straight line wall. Like, none of this wraparound like, it was just a wall. And I don't know if you measured it, that wall width wise if it was much bigger than anyone else or dramatically bigger, but it certainly felt like it because it was flat and flush. And there was I was gonna say no, but there was less chance of pucks hitting the edge of it and sort of getting through a seam. If a puck hit it, chances are it was dropping in front of you.

Alright. And the inner belt, why does that make it bigger?

Well, because you can wear a size bigger than you normally would and still have it secured by the belt. Now don't forget, I'm other people would say, I do. I suspend I was waiting for that one. I don't I'm not a suspender guy. So you're right.

You can do it two different ways, but even suspenders inherently kind of pull pull it together a little bit. Right? The beauty of the inner belt is I can secure it around my waist, and it can flare out. There's nothing sort of holding it in on the sides or on the front. Like, it just you can wear it as open as you want, undo the laces, and, you know, anytime you can wear it looser, there's a little more give when pucks hit it too.

Like, you're more likely to sort of eat a puck and have it stick to you as opposed to everything being tight and gathered and bouncing off of it. And that would be the one sort of counter intuitive point to those Warrior pants. Yeah. You kept everything in front of you. It didn't leak through, but that rigid surface produced a rebound that might get away from you a little more, where some of those rounded seams you're able to sort of seal off with a glove and have it just sit in there.

Did we ever publish the pro tip for dealing with not having an inner belt but better than securing the suspenders the traditional way? You know what I'm talking about, Woody? I don't wanna give it away yet.

Well, the fact the quizzical look on my face tells me if we did, I've forgotten.

Alright. Well, we may have to tease having an article with the exclusive locker room photo we have on a way of dealing with that.

I'm gonna admit something that I'm

I'm intrigued.

Myself with. I was today years old when I figured out, you know, those those buckles on your shoulder flies, the the on your upper body.

Shoulder floaters on the chest? Yeah. The the Vaughn's got that.

Yeah. Are are for they're locking the straps. So you're suspenders.

But that's kinda new, is it not? Like, that hasn't been there forever, has it? Like, I feel or or are they just from a marketing perspective, it's it's something they talk about new because Vaughn's got it. Yeah.

I saw I saw that a while ago and thought I I didn't didn't know that that's what those are for.

Listen. A lot of people will say, why would you do it that way? Because that's holding your shoulder floaters down. You're better to run your suspenders under your shoulder floaters. And, again, let the floaters float.

I I untuck, so I put them the the suspenders on my body and then put the upper body on top.

Interesting. See.

And I never thought I'd be a non tuck guy. Never thought I'd be an untuck guy, and you guys won me over. Not me. Listen. I I

I'm an untucked guy, and I lost an appendix to being an untucked. So Always talking about how that's how much I believe in it.

How much did you say or how big is the hockey shop?

It's 38 we used to say 30,000, And then I was corrected. It's it's larger than 30,000 square feet. It's massive. K. They gave Cam you know what?

Like like, they used to hide get the old place. It was big too, but they can't you know, Cam, I liked the elevators because it was always Marc Andre Fleury on the elevator door opening and closing, and then the idea of Fleury closing the door was so metaphorically perfect for me whenever I saw the elevator. But they kinda hit Cam in the basement. Now he's out in the open. They've allowed him into the wild.

He's got a big corner full of all the great goalie gear. It's fun.

Every time I hear a a big number on on square feet, I always need the comparison to an Olympic sized swimming pool. And so we're talking 30,000 square feet over at the hockey shop, roughly. 13,000 square feet is an Olympic sized swimming pool.

So three of them because it's 38,

I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's three Olympic sized swimming pools.

Olympic sized swimming pools must be huge because I I I feel like when I look at the Hockey Shop, you could fit more than

three size. Yeah. What's that mean?

Alright. So everybody's homeschooling their kids. Yeah. Here's a little math problem you can do at home with your kids now.

I was told there'd be no math.

It's the volume of a goalie pad. How many goalie pads could you fit into the hockey shop if you just stack them all perfectly? That's the kind of thing I would have done with my kid. I can't

wait for you guys to give me

the answer. I I'll do that next week.

Yeah. But we're talking square feet. Now you need now you need the height of the building before you can do that, don't you? Because it's volume.

I think we could come up with an estimate. Estimation is part of most math curricula too.

Parent Playbook

Was told. More homework coming up, with the parent segment, brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U, the app. We'll get into our assignment after the latest from our friends over at Stop It Goaltending U, the app.

If if Hutch has a homework assignment for us, then the tie in is perfect because Stop It Goaltending U, the app, is is essentially goalie school on your phone or tablet. It's like a university. That's why they sell it call it Stop It Goaltending U. All their twenty five years of experience crammed into your phone in a way that is easy to access. Five one minute videos every week.

You can go back to the archives and watch the old ones, or you can just download, watch each one every day. Five minute videos, twenty minute videos on the weekend. They have deep dives. They have quick hits. You can go down the rabbit hole and search up all the archives and spend weeks in this thing.

Whether you wanna digest digest it in bits or download yourself into the matrix all at once, Stop It Goaltending U. The app is designed to make you a better goaltender. And, of course, with every Stop It Goaltending U, the app subscription, you also get a subscription to InGoal Magazine premium. Stop It Goaltending U and InGoal Magazine, the best of both worlds when it comes to goaltending instruction and information.

Last week, guys, I introduced the idea of getting a baseball glove for your young goalie. And when I did that, I mentioned I was working on a piece looking at the top annoyances of goalie parents. I put it out to the goalie parents Canada group on Facebook and got a flood of comments. And it's gonna take me a while to work through all

of them to finish that piece up. But today, I thought I would specifically address, a comment, a suggestion from a reader on there, Andrew, and I don't have your permission to share your whole name, so I won't, but you know who you are. He suggested that we publish a good warm up for minor hockey goalies. And, you know, my my first reaction to that was, well, we've got lots of warm ups over at InGoal. We've got shooting warm ups, skating warm ups, NHL goaltenders, lots of content.

But of course, Andrew pointed out that most minor hockey teams get all of three to five minutes to warm up on the ice. And of course, that makes sense because ice is expensive. It's in short supply. A lot of parents would have concurred because many of the comments on Facebook were around the idea of the warm up and what's happening out there. So I thought we have a bit of a different life guys, at least in terms of spectating.

We spend most of our times with leagues that get a good fifteen minutes of solid warm up time on the ice and then a flood before the game even happens. We live in a different world except for you guys with your beer league games. But, gentlemen, today we are going to do part one. There will be some homework for all three of us before we do part two next week. But today I'd like to put a homework part.

Yeah. Today I just want to put it out to you. What are your thoughts? If you guys were a coach, what would you suggest that your team do for a warm up to get your players and your goalies ready? You've got three to five minutes of ice time before the whistle goes.

Millard, you can start. You're back in Brandon, Manitoba coaching the U 13 Wheat Kings. What are you gonna do?

So you got five minutes. There's not a lot of time, so I'm doing two drills. I would get my goaltender, the starting goaltender on the far side, the glass side, not the bench side, against the boards between the blue line and the red line and just work on his hands and and squeezing pucks in the belly. Just one shooter there, and everybody else can twirl around and shoot

Don't waste net time with the simple stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. The guys guys are getting their their crossbars and off the glass and all that kind of stuff. And then I'm doing one drill of three lines, right, center, and left, and players just skating into shots, and the goalie has to stop that shot or read the the flow, get a feel for that, and then he push over or shuffle over to the middle and then the left and and then go all the way across. So there's there's some some foot movement in, and both goaltenders would take part in that.

And that there's your there's your five minutes.

Goes fast.

Goes fast. Alright,

thank you. Really appreciate that. I like the idea of the side. I hadn't actually thought of that one. Makes better better use of your ice.

But you gotta pick the side where there's the glass because

Yeah, you're not shooting it into the bench.

Yeah, tipped up and hits your assistant coach. Yeah. Yeah.

For sure. And you probably get a little bit of footwork done there too. Right. Yeah. Okay.

Woody? What do you think? First first off,

I love Daren using the sideboards because we've seen that a lot. I think people think that NHL goalies have perfect situations where they're always in the net. We've seen a lot of NHL goalies and goalie coaches using the sideboards. And published. Part of their morning skate and published a lot of sort of that work as well.

I'm gonna cheat. I'm gonna go with what I watched the Edmonton Oilers do this week, which is instead of starting with the static shooting, you know, just sitting on your knees and, upright taking shots from the middle of the ice, which a lot of teams start their warm up with, they were in a bit of a tighter schedule. They wanted to incorporate everyone into the flow drills of a morning skate faster, so they only had a few minutes. And so they start with a series of shooters in different places on the ice, and the goalies move around into different shots. And we'll actually publish this.

I've got some thoughts on it from both Stuart Skinner and Dustin Wolf, the goalie coach. We should be able to get this up, you know, somewhat quick. I've I I'm working on it today. Can you

say that a whole again? I'm just trying to get a picture in my mind.

Well, basically, it's basically shooting drills, but they're moving into each shot. It's just like combining crease movement patterns with shooting, and you've got shooters. And so there's just a and there's a series of different movements. They have more time. They'll add some post work, little bumps into the post, and then out into the shots.

It all depends on how much time. But it gets the goalies moving, and it gets the goalies eyes and hands, and it gets a a small group of shooters a chance to let the puck go and make passes and shoot. And the rest, to your point, Daren, I do think if you want everyone and you got 20 kids and whatever, they can't all be involved in the goalie station. You've still got another side of the ice where those guys can be doing something a little more active, and then they get into their morning skate, but it gives everybody an opportunity. Like I said, not wasting any time with static shooting.

Everybody's sort of moving. It's not super crazy dynamic. It's not fancy. It's simple crease movement patterns into shots, but essentially, the game is largely just movement into shots. Movement shot, movement shot, just a series of those, and it's a little more dynamic than what we've seen elsewhere in the NHL.

The goalies like it. They feel like they're not wasting any time. They're getting into the things that matter to them, And the shooters that are part of the drill seem engaged enough, and the guy the rest that want a little more dynamic activity for their shooting and their skating are at the other end of the rink getting it.

Love it. Love that we could have an article up that will help answer this question and bring a pro perspective for the parents. And that Daren also referenced something that we'd published before as well in terms of working along the board. So that's gonna be good. I'm gonna add in a few of my thoughts.

I've had a little bit more time to think about this, although I did put the question out to you guys at roughly the same time, as as I started thinking about it.

K. I'm disappointed in that because I I thought it sounded like, Woody and I came up with some pretty good ideas on the fly. No. You did. You just ruined it.

Oh, I see. Might as well it might it might as well have been the fly because I was I think I was covering an NHL game when they when this was posited to us less than twelve hours ago.

Yeah. But you had an hour drive home to think about it even though you're half asleep. Here's the thing, I said you've got three to five, minutes of ice, but I would like to expand that because this is for goalie parents and what they can do. The fact is that I'm not. I'm just expanding the question a little bit here.

Your warm up begins before you go on the ice and I think that's something that we need to acknowledge guys. That's the place to start and we do have some dynamic warm up articles over at ingoalmag.com that people can look at if you don't know what to do, off the ice. A lot of teams have an off ice warm up but your kid might be of the age where that's not very structured within your team and I would encourage you to to help them work on some things off the ice before they go. I would fit in a visual warm up off the ice and I think, if we haven't published one with Josh Tucker, we really should. A way of warming up your eyes before you go on the ice.

Super important. Something you can do. I would suggest that some of the stuff that you do with the basic tracking and hands that you wanted to start, on the ice, Daren, we don't all get the luxury of that much time to do it. So maybe there's a way we can do some of that off the ice. Like the thing is goalies often, especially in minor hockey, come in cold halfway through a game, and they haven't had any of those easy shots to to warm up.

And maybe we don't need to make that part of our habit. Maybe we could find a way around that. It's also one of the values of goalie splitting games when they're younger because they learn that ability to come into a game partway through without having those basic hand and gut warm ups. And, and the fact is that having routines as a young goaltender sometimes makes it harder on you because you don't always get to fit into that routine as we've talked about with NHL guys who have big long routines. We've all been to tournaments where suddenly that warm up gets cut short because something with

Yeah.

Scheduling has changed things. So don't have your kid too reliant on that. Of course, gentlemen, NHL Sense Arena fixes this too because you can get those basic hand warm ups done before you even go on the ice. You can have as much ice time as you want. You can have NHL level ice time if your coach gives you the luxury of having a bit of time before you go out there to work on NHL Sense Arena.

If you want something a little bit more affordable, there's some deliberate ball drills that you can do. Again, I mentioned Josh Tucker. He's got some great stuff working with reaction balls because too many goalie warm ups, you know, they're just knocking the ball off the wall, but it's just kind of a mindless pattern that doesn't really impact them too much other than just routine. So reaction balls are a good way to warm up off the ice before you get out there. After that, here's what I'm gonna say.

I love that you guys came up with some specific situations. I love that you came up with some specific drills, but I would like to reinforce the parents, it's actually okay for the players to try and score. I mean, that's what's happening in the game. Too many parents get tied up in, why aren't you shooting it in my kid's pads? Why aren't you shooting into his hands so he can learn to feel the puck?

The players need to try and score because that's what happens during a game and that's okay. I would say I like Daren's idea of it starting with a little bit of distance in the beginning. I think that's really important. And if I could add in my own pet peeve about warm ups and maybe we could even have a top five annoyances about warm up, article probably guys. I hate when the players just coast in.

This is a big beer league thing. They coast in at about half speed until they're two feet in front of you and then they suddenly just rip one between your pads. You're not going to take him out in a warm up in practice. So make them realistic, whatever those shooting drills are. So that's sort of my things that I want to throw out there.

It's okay to score, begin your warm up off the ice as best you can, Don't become too too reliant on on the routine. And if you can have that mindset that you can fit into just about anything, coming in cold partway through a game, I think you're gonna be better off in the long run. Homework. InGoal Magazine, of course, is about pros, and we've already mentioned a couple of the pro things that we can bring to this question, but we do need some professional opinions on this. So your homework, get out your Rolodex, get out your contacts on your iPhone, or just stop by somebody at the rink this week, and I I need you each to get one opinion from somebody in the pro game of what they would do with three to five minutes of ice time to warm up.

It would be interesting. Would be like in thirty minutes.

Perfect. It would be interesting if it was somebody for whom this is a challenge because they don't normally work with minor hockey kids. It'd be interesting to hear what they say. So if you wanna get her up hanger, that'd be great. Woody, you gotta get it from somebody.

I will do the same thing.

I think my drill with shorty just handled this. Alright. Okay. I'm done. See?

Nope.

You're not allowed to cheat. You're not allowed to cheat.

Yeah. You gotta talk to somebody.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I I don't like talking to people. I don't know if you guys have noticed that.

I know. But you this is homework.

Yeah. Woody hates talking.

I hate homework even more.

We're gonna have at least

three ideas from pros for next week in our segment, warming up for minor hockey.

One more question. Goalie Howe, Hatrick, we need, I need to come up with the T shirt.

The one more question T shirt would be good.

Where are you guys on breakaways and warm up? Hasek used to do it all the time.

Lundqvist did it to help get his flow to help channel his flow.

Yeah. Yeah. I think my kid, yeah, I think my kid finishes all his warm ups that way with specific players they really enjoy doing it with. You don't have a lot of time in minor hockey.

I I have no problem with a couple breakaways at the end of it, but the Hutch's point, like and I think you can open the car doors and give them a scoot shoot to score mandate a 100%, but you have to dictate where it's coming from if you want it to actually be a progressive warm up even in a short period of time. As soon as you let those kids walk into the bottom of the hash marks, you know, leaning on a stick, loading up, no pressure, no nothing. Now it's not realistic for them.

Oh, that's what I'm saying.

Doing anything for your tracking system. It's all about where you position them, and that's that's part of this Oilers thing. Yeah. There's movement. There's die and it's dynamic, and they can shoot to score.

They're not trying to hit it in the goalie's chest all the time, but it's from a distance that it gives the goalie the opportunity to track the puck.

Here's one for you. I was part of a new skate. They've been going forever, but it was my first time out with these guys on Saturday morning. Great group of guys. And their their rule is no BS.

If if you cause any BS at all, you're out. So it's and there's no referee, and it it's it's early morning and you're done. It it was so much fun.

So but the question is, is the goalie complaining about stupidity BS, or do they recognize that that that BS is different to us than it is to everyone else?

It's it's it's definitely different for us.

Recognize that?

Yeah. They they they do. So they did actually did a warm up. I was like, woah. We get to going up.

So they did the half moon. I haven't done the half moon forever, but it was great because I knew that we were going to have this conversation today. So I was thinking, oh, the half moon. Here we go. Wouldn't you know it? Towards the end of going right to left of the half moon, two guys shoot at the same time.

From opposite sides.

And no. No. They're right beside each other, but two pucks coming at the same time. And I was I was laughing so hard. And, fortunately, no.

I didn't get hurt. It it didn't affect anybody. Even even in the half moon, I'd never seen it before in the half moon where two guys shoot at the same time.

Well, well, at least they were side by side, which makes it less likely. But the worst part of the half moon is when the guy assumes you're coming over to his side and you're still over on the far side and he shoots it and you're not looking

really wants to beat you.

Yeah. Like, I'm gonna get it before he gets across. I don't know if it was half moon. I think it was probably something else, but Curtis Sanford, now the goalie coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, once took a shot off the side of the mask in warm ups when he wasn't looking. He was facing another direction, and somebody ripped one that hit him in the ear hole of the mask and pushed enough force into the ear to rupture the eardrum.

Oh, wow.

So it's all fun it's all fun and games till somebody loses their hearing temporarily.

That's that's nasty. I I was spared anything like that. Let's go to Vizual Edge ProReads. Devon Levi is our subject that's going to, entertain us and educate us, this week as, we pay tribute to our friends over at Vizual Edge and, commend them on what they've been able to do.

Yeah. We talk about warm ups and warming up the eyes. Vizual Edge will help you train your eyes as well as the cognitive side of the game. It's an online training tool. You get a set of red and blue glasses, kinda like the ones you get when you go see a 3D movie except a lot nicer version of it.

You log in to your computer. You do a test that identifies your strength and weaknesses visually and then addresses them with a series of drills that you can go through on a daily basis, kinda like Stop It Goaltending. You don't have to dig in and spend hours at a time. Just a quick twenty minute routine every day that will help improve how you see the puck, which, of course, makes them a perfect sponsor for ProReads because it's all about NHL goalies helping you improve how you see the game. Vizual Edge will allow you to see the puck, and our ProReads will help you see where it's headed, anticipate where it's going next, help you see the game better.

And this week, we've got Devon Levi, freshly minted American Hockey League all star, who's dropped in, did a little video session with us talking about paddle down, low high plays, when to get up and hold your edges. And it was interesting because his decision on the paddle down, I think probably a lot of people watched the the the save or the screenshots and thought, I'm not sure a paddle down is good here. It's taking him perhaps delaying him getting up to an option a passing option in front in front of the net. And yet when he explains it, there's a very specific reason he did it to eliminate other passing options. So, again, that's what ProReads is all about.

It's about sort of taking a look at plays and understanding the thought process of the best in the game. And I thought this was a great example of it because where some people might have critiqued that decision, once he explained it, it made a ton of sense and ultimately simplified the save decision process for him.

Paddle down. It's been around longer than we thought.

It has. Well, a lot longer.

It's something that's sort of we talked about Darcy Kuemper. Darcy Kuemper used a lot of, sort of projected paddle down. Like, he's he's assertive with it, and he's got those long arms so he doesn't have to sort of lean and get out of his ability to move on top of it, but Darcy uses it a lot. I was talking to some other goaltenders about scrambles in front of the net and how you manage that because inevitably, it's when you move as a goaltender from your knees that you break your seal to go left or right, and that's when pucks can funnel through you, which you never want. So guys practicing.

We had a drill with Robbie Tallas years ago. Stanley Cup winning goaltending coach Robbie Tallas years ago from Kelowna where he was teaching guys to butterfly push side to side with paddle down to protect that area that they ultimately expose by lifting a knee to make that push. So, not every goalie likes it, but there are some guys that use it. And I had this conversation with Stuart Skinner the other day because for him as a narrow butterfly guy, there's more moving parts to those side to sides and scrambles, but he's not a guy that likes to use paddle down. So very important for him to be quick and precise with those subtle pushes.

So it it it it's fascinating. But I do think increasingly in specific situations, we're seeing goalies use it again.

A lot of people believe Hasek was the guy that brought us that. Further. Way, way back further. Right? Further.

I I might have sent it to educated us on this.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I sent you something somebody put out on Twitter. I feel bad. I can't remember who it was, but it was an image of I think it was Terry Sawchuk, using paddle down.

And is that a comment from Johnny Bauer perhaps that he he used it a lot because there were so many low shots and you're dealing with traffic, even back in the day, and it just helped seal everything up while he could stay in a position that he could look around things. I don't think people would play it that way today, but, but as you said, it goes way back further than we expect. I remember it being such a Felix Potvin was one of the guys I loved when I was younger, sort of early nineties doing doing that so much. And I remember cutting my stick differently because I'd read that, Dominic Hasek actually cut his stick a little bit differently, shaved some off the paddle so that when he put it down, it would, would keep some of the shaft on the ice better. Of course, there's also the old Curtis Curve.

Remember the the Curtis Joseph stick? Was it, was it Christian that did that? Where they had the curved shaft so that Andy Moog used that. Yeah. That's right.

That too. That had the shaft that would would, it wasn't straight. Was curved so that it could lay flat along the ice while you were actually holding your

your fister out that was bent was for paddle down?

That was my understanding.

You guys have opened up

Why else would you do it?

Gigantic can of worms. I thought it was We're gonna get emails from people that are selling versions of these sticks now non stop.

I thought it was for puck handling. And what was my other oh, poke check. I thought it might be easier to to poke jack because you could get firmer

If you start something for one reason, people inevitably find other reasons for doing

right. It it would get the the handle down on the ice perfectly.

That was my understanding of it. Here we go.

I don't think that I should be the one to break this tie because you guys are talking about a generation of goaltending with which I'm not familiar as the young guy in this conversation.

Oh my goodness. You're two months younger than me. Or maybe more.

Okay. Just late to goaltending. Let's put it that way. I wasn't involved when the when the Curtis curve I didn't pay much attention when the Curtis curve was popular, but I'm gonna go touch on this one. My understanding was always that it was a paddle down thing.

I did not know that. And I had one.

Well, clearly, you weren't using it. Right?

To this day, Hasek would tape the knob of a stick differently so he could get the handle down on the ice.

Yeah. So what I tried that might have been his technique was tape the knob, and then it took an exacto knife and cut off the bottom part of that tape job. And I think I'd read that he did that, so I tried it. It was it was effective. It wasn't Curtis curve effective, but it was effective.

I Would use a Curtis curve now.

But Wasn't there a breakage issue with something? Like, why didn't it stick?

I don't know. But I I stop a lot with the handle on my stick, so I'm not sure I need to change the angle of it because it it comes in pretty handy.

There's no reason now with the technology of of carbon fiber sticks that they couldn't make one that would last.

Yeah. I don't know whether there's a break thing.

Oh, I would I

some breakage issues because they were so light Christian goalie sticks.

I would think that having to layer the carbon and have it not like, I I would think that the curve itself would cost you some rigidity in the layering of the carbon and and perhaps expose it to maybe more breakage issues. Just off the top of my head. I'm not sure.

Aerospace, Woody. Here we go.

Our NHL Sense Arena feature interview in discussion with Mike Valley of the Dallas Stars, and Mike catches up with Kevin. But first, what's happening over at NHL Sense Arena? Hutch.

Well, boys, we were just talking about warm ups, weren't we? And I mentioned the idea that NHL Sense Arena is a great great way to to warm up before you go on the ice. And so I just want to say to all the young goalies out there, all the adult goalies even going into beer league, your pre ice warm up can have a big upgrade if you use NHL Sense Arena because it's not just a training tool, It's a game changer for preparing your mind and your body before you step on the ice. We've talked about it before. NHL goaltender Joey Daccord of the Seattle Kraken uses it before games to stay sharp, fine tune his reflexes, lock in mentally even.

And one of the coolest features about NHL Sense Arena is that you can access Joey Daccord's personal pregame warm up routine as part of the training plans that are included with Sense Arena. And whether it's Joey's warm up or one of the many other guided training plans from pro goalies and coaches, These drills are tailored to help you practice saves, react to shots, and perfect reading releases and your tracking skills all in just minutes. It really is the ultimate way to prepare for the action ahead. And I underline, this is not a virtual reality version of Joey Daccord's warm up. He uses this virtual reality tool before he goes on the ice.

Whether you're gearing up for practice or for a big game, NHL Sense Arena ensures you are physically and mentally ready from the very first shot. So stay confident, stay sharp, and warm up like the pros with Sense Arena. Head over to sensearena.com, and don't forget, use the code IGM50 and save a bit more.

I like your announcer voice, your delivery. It's not the full

Can I get a job?

Like, deep yeah.

Anybody wants voiceovers, I can really ham it up.

Come on over.

Love to.

Good at it. Just let's let's go over to Hutch. You you be like, the guy on Price is Right, Don Pardo.

Kevin Woodley, on down. You're the next contestant on the goalie is right.

Feature Interview - Mike Valley

And I brought Mike Valley with me, formerly of the Dallas Stars, Daren, and another new book combining him and Justin Goldman. They've teamed up for The Power Within Three. We did this the last time we had both of them on. Apologies scheduling and everything. We just grabbed Mike this time to talk about the interviews he did with a handful of goaltenders for this edition of the book.

We've got an excerpt. We're gonna be running excerpt ex easy for me to say. We're gonna be running excerpts from the book at ingoalmag.com to give people a little taste of the great information and the great insights that are in this book. The first one is up with Jeremy Swayman. He takes part, with Valley in the interview alongside goalie coach Alfie Michaud from his time in the NCAA.

There's Tim Thomas. There's Mitch Korn, Bill Ranford, Sean Burke, Brian Elliott, Thomas Magnuson, Hanu Nyquist are also part of the book. They also have chapters and extended interviews in the book. It's loaded with great advice and insight. So we thought we'd catch up with Valley who did the interviews for the book and sort of get a glimpse into everything that's in there.

And there are some great stories. There are some great examples. There are some great lessons that Valley shares with us in this week's feature interview presented by NHL Sense Arena. Really excited to welcome back to the InGoal Radio Podcast. Returning guest, Mike Valley, former NHL goalie, former NHL goalie coach, continuous, I guess.

Is that how we should say author? Author again? Reauthorred? How do we do that? What's the what's the phrasing?

I don't know. Learner. Learner. I don't know. Just just keep, keep tapping into people that have had great success and trying to share it with others, but, I guess that's the way.

Okay. So I'm trying to apply it to goaltending still. Let's catch up a little bit, though, because I I I know, like, it's been a while since we we've talked to you. It's been a while since you've coached in the NHL. Also, obviously, still involved in goaltending with the new book.

Like, just catch us up a little bit. You know, people probably wondering what's Mike Valley been up to. Yeah. You know what?

I've actually been taking it pretty easy. Still, living down in Texas, and both my daughters are in college now, so I've been really focused kind of on helping them. And and but, you know, as far as myself, I have still been involved pretty heavily in the community or the goalie community, just not as vocal. You know, spend a lot of time with, my my goalie coaching friends around the world and and, staying on top of new developments. And, then I've also been involved with a pretty cool project in Alberta, which is a leadership course that that I have in the Alberta school division, and, you know, kids in grades ten, eleven, and 12 can take that.

So that's been consuming a lot of my time, but, yeah, it's been pretty, pretty calm and cool on on on my end.

Okay. So leadership and goaltending, I I feel like that ties in perfectly because you've been a leader in the position for so long, you know, as a coach and as somebody who has given back to the community through network goaltending, the symposiums you guys used to run, and now again through another book, coauthored with with Justin Goldman. You know, let's get into it. Some of the names in this book, know, guys that you have been involved with both on and off the ice throughout your career. Some names that people are gonna recognize, Sean Burke, Brian Elliott, Mitch Korn, Thomas Magnuson, Alfie Michaud, Hanu Nyquist, Bill Ranford, Jeremy Swayman, and Tim Thomas.

I'm not sure where we start on that list, but some of the stories that you guys share in this book, we're gonna be doing some excerpts at ingoalmag.com, and those will include links on where you can buy the new edition of the power within elevating your path to elite goaltending. This is the third book in the series. Which one like, where do we start with this one? Can can we start with Tim Thomas? Yeah.

Some of the some of the lessons and messages. He I know he's a longtime friend of yours. You guys have kept in touch throughout.

Yeah.

But a lot of us haven't heard from him in a while.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. With this book too, first off, it's you know, this is my favorite, and and part of that is just the evolution of of learning, what to ask guys. I was once pulled something really cool from a mentor of mine. He said, if you want a better answer, ask a better question.

One of the things that I tried to do within this book is really dig into some of those things that can be very helpful for anybody that's reading, whether they're, you know, a goalie, which most of the readers are, but we also have a lot of other people from businessmen to, businessmen and women to, you know, doctors to all types of, you know, different backgrounds. So I think the lessons that are that are shared within this book can help you whatever you're trying to accomplish in life. And, you know, you mentioned Tim Thomas, and and him is one of the most he he's an incredibly deep thinker. Anybody that can look back at that playoff series that Boston had against Vancouver, some of the best things were listening to his interviews after the games. And just to get, like, a little glimpse of, like, how this guy thinks.

Now, you know, Timmy obviously had an incredible career. You know, definitely redefined the position in many ways. And then he went quiet for, you know, five, six years after retiring. I was one of the few guys that, you know, that that he would talk to and, you know, we would talk weekly. And for a long time, Timmy didn't wanna talk about hockey or goaltending.

In fact, anytime I tried to get him into the previous books, but he never wanted to go in that direction. And just as of late, he's really kind of start thinking more about, you know, his journey, what he was able to accomplish, and and and share some great insights. And, so I had to ask him to be in in this book, and and and he agreed. And it was really cool because I think he's been away from the game now long enough where he can sit back and reflect and and kind of share what really made him different. And, you know, Kevin, you remember covering that Vancouver series in the finals there, and, you know, you just saw a guy that was seeing the game in a totally different way.

And, it's fun to watch. So we dig into that playoff run, and some of the stories that he shares are are stories that I don't think he's shared before, at least not with a lot of people. And, you know, it was when I told the other guys in the book that were gonna be in the book that Timmy Thomas was gonna be in the book, just the level of excitement that they had to hear, you know, what Timmy was gonna say was pretty cool.

Can you give me and, know, without giving it all away, we don't wanna reveal the entire book, but give people a taste of what are some of the lessons, some of the some of the anecdotes that were shared that, you know, just whet their appetite in terms of of, you know, some of the ones that jumped out the most to you? Because there's a lot.

Oh, there's there's a lot. And and, you know, it's it's interesting. I was talking to Sean Burke, and Sean Burke's giving me this story about watching watching Tim Thomas for one of the first times. He said he was watching Timmy in practice. It was in game day, and he's sitting next to the GM.

Can't remember who the GM was at that time he was referring to, but he's watching Timmy practice in the morning. He said it's the first time he's ever watched an NHL goalie in a practice and not let in a goal. And he said this guy was just battling and and he stopped stopped everything. He goes, I sat there all practice and watched, and this kid did not let in a goal. He goes, I leaned over to the GM.

I said, gosh. We're sure lucky this guy isn't playing tonight. So, you know, pretty cool story, and I share that with Timmy. And, you know, most guys would answer in a way that says, you know, that's that's nice of him. Yeah.

That's I I don't remember that, but that was really nice of him to say. But Timmy says, no. He's wrong. I said, what do you mean he's wrong? He goes, no.

If I was playing that night, I would have purposely let in a few goals in that practice. He goes, because I played my best when I was uncomfortable. So I had to make sure that, yes, always my goal was to go in and stop every every shot at practice. But if I was playing, I needed to make sure that I was a little bit uncomfortable. Because when I'm uncomfortable, I play my best.

And I thought it was such a great lesson for any goaltender because when are we truly fully comfortable? Right? That's few and far between times in our careers. There's always something going on, a nagging injury. You know, something didn't go right in practice.

It wasn't your favorite drill that you got at the end. Something that somebody said, something that somebody wrote in the media. Right? We always have this little bit of a comfort level. And we have to find a way to be able to execute and play at the highest level that you can play at even when you're uncomfortable.

So I thought that was just a really, really cool lesson. And it's something that, you know, he did a lot. There was the, you know, in the first round, I believe it was that year that they won the cup, he, they're playing against Montreal. And he said his ankles hurt so bad. Like, all through the playoffs, his ankles hurt so bad.

So that first round when they're playing Montreal, think it was after game three, he goes, I need to change my skates. I can't wear these same skates that I'm wearing. So he brought in all these equipment reps, to practice after game three, and he tried on different skates from different brands. And he picked one. I don't know how he picked which one.

He he picked his favorite, and he wore them for the next game. First time wearing that skate in a game, like, literally the day after he tried them.

Stanley Cup playoffs.

Stanley Cup playoffs. And he says

Talk about being learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Like, we hear that phrase a lot. He lived it.

He lived it. So he said, he's like, you know, it goes on and tells you a story about, like, gosh, this changed the way that I played. My five hole is different. Like, I had to adapt. And he goes, it turns out I went out and just played, you know, really well.

So he he has all these different things where he he's very, very adapts to whatever situation he is and thrives when he's a little bit uncomfortable. And, he even said that with, like, technique. He would talk about, you know, there's times where you almost felt too robotic. And he goes, you know, when you feel robotic, he goes, you know, I had to get myself a little bit uncomfortable. I had to break that mold.

So he goes, you know that stupid game that you play with the rebounds where all the guys are standing in front? He goes, I had it I had to do that game to find my way, like, to compete and, to, you know, to take take away that robotic feeling in my game. So, you know, so many cool things that he talks about that actually end up running parallel to what, you know, I believe are some of the greatest goalie coaches, which is, you know, Sean Burke and Billy Ranford and Mitch Korn. So really kind of cool to see that. You know, another thing that Timmy goes in and and and talks about, just this chapter alone is is worth getting the book, is he talks about being completely without words when he was in his flow state.

So flow state meaning when you're in the zone, obviously.

Yeah. Yeah.

And he talks about that run during the Stanley Cup finals. He says he wasn't thinking in language, but rather he was seeing and feeling the game. And he goes in and explains even, like, why he wore the mask that he did is because he wanted to be able to hear the game. He he needed to be able to hear where guys were. So it's just this whole new level of depth that I I think you only see in some of the greats.

Right? He, you know, he talks about, the whole thing about, you know, look good, feel good, play good. And he said, you know, that's not true. That's

not No.

He goes, that's not true at all. He goes, yeah.

With all due respect, he he he often looked like an unmade bed.

Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, he said, you could look good and feel good and play like crap. And so he kinda goes into that whole insight as well. So I just really, really enjoyed listening to him, not only is he, you know, a tremendous friend and and, was an amazing goalie.

I just think he thought the game at a totally different level. And I think a lot of those qualities is what that next great goalie will have. Not this, you know, robotic goaltender that's been trained to, you know, approach every situation in a certain pattern. A guy that, you know, the next great goalie is gonna be that free thinker that is gonna change the game, not only, you know, physically, but also mentally how they think. So thought it was really, really cool for him to share those insights.

I love the so many things I love there. Funny. I've I've we're starting to see rebound come back a little bit more. I'm starting to see goalies playing it at the end of practices and morning skates. Interestingly enough, one of the ones that I saw most recently was, PWHL and and Ann-Rene Desbiens, who is just at the absolute top of of her game in that league.

And the joy she took in shutting down a game of rebound and going out outside of the box to make some of the, you know, like, just, you know, you know, rebound. Like, there's saves where you have no chance,

but you

find a way. Right. So probably a really valuable lesson there. And so that brings me to I'll shift it over to the conversation you had with Thomas Magnuson, and I haven't had a chance to go through it, but there's a guy who has committed himself, much like yourself, very deeply to the learning of the position. And, you know, you mentioned the next great goalie and free thinker.

What did you take out of because you've had so many conversations with Thomas over the years. I find when you know guys and you know so much about them, it can be a little forest for the trees when it's time to interview them. So how did you approach that interview, and what did you get out of that conversation that was maybe different than the ones you have on a regular basis, or maybe it just amplified them?

Well, I think with Thomas Magnuson, and for those listeners who don't know who Thomas Magnuson is, we Thomas is it was one of the first full time goalie coaches in Sweden. And how the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation and a lot of these European Ice Hockey Federations work is you have one guy that kind of sits at the top, and he helps build out the language that's used within the goalie community and kind of the theories and thoughts so that when a goalie is moving from an organization to organization, it's not this drastic change that we might see in North America. Has always dedicated himself to learning. And I think the big thing that comes in with his chapter is he's sharing you know, new discoveries that he sees. He's always talked about the game being a pendulum.

Meaning that like, you know, we go all in, we, you know, just look at social media right now and all the talk about, you know, just reverse VH. It's just, you know, anybody that's the only thing people have talked about the last six years, it seems like, in a lot of ways. But that always swings back. Then it's like, well, maybe we shouldn't be doing that as much. And it goes back to where the game was.

Right? Same thing we're seeing with, you know, we're talking about, you know, greats like like Dominic Hasek or or Tim Thomas or whatever. That free flowing state of competing will start coming back a little bit more rather than being predictable. Right? So the game, whether it's goaltending or any other, you know, sport or position, always has this pendulum.

And that's what Thomas looks into and thinks about, well, with each swing of the pendulum, you're also picking up these learning lessons. And what are those lessons and and and what can be kind of uncovered? So Thomas' chapter is really, really insightful. Probably the the most, I would call, academic chapter out of them all. But, you know, it's interesting because all these conversations that I had, they all start having this kind of the same core nucleus of of thoughts.

And, you know, it was it was cool. And I'll I'll jump in if you don't mind

Yeah. Yeah.

Into talking about, like, Sean Burke. Because Sean Burke, you know, talked a lot about these natural attributes. Right? So he said, you know, shared a lot of the insights of what some of the great goalies that he's worked with, but he said it all came down to one They're all super competitive. You know, he said that that building that competitiveness is, in fact, sometimes harder to develop than the those technical skills.

And he would talk about, like yeah. He said, I always got great goalies. If you're in the NHL and New York trade, you're good. It was about finding what is it that makes you good, and let's bring that forward. So rather than necessarily focusing on change, it was more about bringing out those qualities that made those athletes really, really good.

So, I mean, if we look at anybody that Sean Burke's gotten before, like, he's a master at simplifying their game and really letting them kinda become the the goalies that they have the ability to become. So super cool interview as well.

You mentioned core nucleus and thoughts. Like, that and, obviously, that ties into it. That could is that where that competitiveness and that bat like, that balance between that and technical, you see through these conversations, that's the where we're shifting back towards?

Yeah. The other thing that came clear, super clear, was this thought of overcoaching young goalies and potentially coaching out their natural abilities and instincts. Right? So, you know, a lot of these coaches talked about or they emphasized letting goalies develop their own style. You provide guidance, but you let them bring out their own style.

Yeah. The other thing that came clear, super clear, was this thought of overcoaching young goalies and potentially coaching out their natural abilities and instincts. Right? So, you know, a lot of these coaches talked about or they emphasized letting goalies develop their own style. You provide guidance, but you let them bring out their own style.

And, you know, that might be part of that pendulum. Right? Do we have has it become so specialized? In a lot of ways, there's good. There's a lot of good stuff in that as well.

However, when a goalie steps on the ice, they have to be they are in the driver's seat. They have to play the game. And, you know, I think it was pretty interesting about how do we find that next Dominic Hasek? How do we find that next Tim Thomas? Or are we so programmed to say a goalie is supposed to look like, you know, x y z that we eliminate those goalies.

Right? Just because they're playing differently. Well, that difference that you have in your game is also what could make you special. So, that was that was an interesting thing.

I'm wondering how much of that ties into your conversation, like, if it went down a similar path with a guy who, hey, what do you know? He coached Dominic Hasek. Yeah. The chapter the chapter with Mitch Korn and and sort of, tying that together into to what he saw there and and, you know, how we've lost that and how we get that back.

Well, what's interesting with Mitch is that, and and, you know, I was lucky enough to work with Mitch when I was in, you know, working with the Nashville Predators. And, Mitch has always been, you know, a great friend and great mentor. And I told Mitch, I said, Mitch, you know what's weird? You know, a little little unique with you is I said, you speak the game. You think the game as if you played the game at a super high level.

Now Mitch has never played goal. Right? However, it's amazing to see how this guy's brain works because he shares things that, yes, he's observed some of the great goalies, but he almost thinks the game is if he's actually been that goalie, which is incredible to me. And, so every time you get on the phone with Mitch and you talk about about things, it always just, you know, blows my mind how intelligent this guy is. You know, he he talks a lot about, you know, a lot about what was really cool is he talked about learning how to get out of your own way.

And he said, you know, he said that a lot of the constraints that we put ourselves as a goalie is restraints we put there that we can just learn how to get out of our own way. He said, if you can get out of your own way, a lot of things open up. So he said, you know, he emphasized how goalies often create their own barriers through whether it's fear or lack of confidence or overthinking or poor habits. And he just kept saying, you know, success often comes from learning how to get out of your own way.

Can you give it is there an example that he shared? I'm try I'm just like, we all know like, it that applies in life, I think.

It applies in life. I'm trying to think. He said it so eloquently. And literally, like, in the first sentence of his interview, I was like, gosh. There's the book right there.

And he just talks about, like, how like, a lot of the things. Right? Like, a lot of the the ways we think become barriers that we put in front of ourselves. Right? A lot of the things that we do, the poor habits that we create, those are things that just hold us back.

Right? And, so it's really neat. He does he does kinda go into this a few times throughout the chapter, but he just said, you know, those barriers are the limitations we put. And, you know, it's one of the things that, we'll make sure that we get over to you, Kevin, that you can share as an excerpt, because, you know, hey. We all hope you buy the book.

But if you don't and just have this, I think it's gonna help you as a goalie. So we'll make sure we get that over to you.

Okay. So we're running a little tight on time. We got about ten more minutes, but each one of these guys feels like they they could be a ten minute conversation on Yeah. So I'm I'm gonna let you take the wheel here. Who who else do we need to hear from?

Like, there's so many good ones. You you mentioned Sean. We've talked about Mitch and Thomas. Billy Ranford's a guy that we've had on our program many times. Yeah.

Again, a life learner. A guy who during the pandemic when others were just sort of locked out of the position or the ability to coach it on the ice, went out and actively sought Yeah. Ideas and opinions. The only goalie coach I can say that actually came to one of our Zooms about a product line. We were doing an info session on a new product launch from Bauer, and he wanted to learn what it was that made these pads so different and unique.

Like, just a a life learner wondering where that conversation went within the book.

Alright. So a couple great thoughts there. One is that all these guys have that quality. Anybody that I've ever talked to, has always been that lifelong learner. They're very, very humble.

They don't sit there and pat themselves on the back, and they learn. So a guy like Billy Ranford, who has done a lot of amazing things in the game, is always looking to learn. In fact, just to circle back on Mitch, it's one of the things that Mitch talked about was the learning process. Right? How Yeah.

These elite goalies are constant students of the game. Right? They understand patterns. They learn from experience. And, again, they stay humble enough to keep evolving as the game changes.

So now let's bring that to Bill Ranford as you just mentioned. He sits down in one of your seminars and he's learning about new equipment. He's constantly learning. And know he talks a lot in his chapter about the importance of athleticism. Now we look back at how he played, but he also says, you know, he he emphasized on playing multiple sports, whether it's baseball, badminton, or soccer, and how that helped develop his overall athleticism and, know, hand eye coordination, which was crucial to his NHL success.

So now let's bring that to Bill Ranford as you just mentioned. He sits down in one of your seminars and he's learning about new equipment. He's constantly learning. And know he talks a lot in his chapter about the importance of athleticism. Now we look back at how he played, but he also says, you know, he he emphasized on playing multiple sports, whether it's baseball, badminton, or soccer, and how that helped develop his overall athleticism and, know, hand eye coordination, which was crucial to his NHL success.

He he does talk about, into modern goalies that have become too predictable. So, again, just like I mentioned with Sean, that, you know, there's this con contrasting this with Dominic Hasek's unpredictability and and what made him special. He also goes in, which Billy's really good at, is talking about mental health. Right? And he talks about the modern day challenges that a lot of these goalies have, how social media and this increased pressure have created these new challenges for young goalies that, quite frankly, none of us older coaches had when we played because know, it was the newspaper, and it was forgotten after a day.

So he talks about really a lot of the different coping support and coping strategies as well. So that would be an example of him always learning. Right?

That's a big one. Yeah. And and we wouldn't think of it. Right? Because he's my generation.

You know? Like Yep. So the recognition that this is a very real problem. I had a recent I had an n a I had a conversation with an NHL goalie recently telling me about all the comments he gets in his Instagram Yeah. About how how he needs to change this technique or play something this way and he'd have more success.

And my first response was, what the hell are you doing reading the comments? Why are you on there anyways? Why are the comments not turned off? But these these young men, and this isn't even a young goalie, but they've grown up with that just being a part of their life Yeah. And the ability to turn that off despite knowing it's a negative influence.

I've watched it. I've seen it have a negative effect on their play.

Yeah. Yep. You know, so and I know we're running tight on time here, so I'll finish off with a couple more, gems. Brian Elliott, he goes in and talks about, again, having this authenticity and style. So he really emphasized the importance of finding your own authentic style rather than trying to copy others.

And I think that's what a lot of guys do, right, especially when you're seeing these things on social all the time. And maybe that's why it's happening is that you see a goalie and you're like, okay. I wanna play like him or I wanna play like her, whatever it is. But it's so important to become your own goalie. Right?

And that comes through experience. That comes through finding what you're good at, how you can pull that out. So, again, that ran parallel with with these other conversations. Else talks a lot about opportunity. Right?

This was a guy that his whole career, he had to continuously reprove himself over and over again. So, you know, he really talks about, you know, being able to seize opportunities when they arise. And quite frankly, those opportunity opportunities happen every day you step on the ice. He has this great story that he's shared where where when he went to Saint Louis and he was trying out, he made sure that he took the net in front of where all the, you know, GMs and coaches were sitting, during camp. Right?

Like, he embraced that. And that's part of what made him, you know, be able to play sixteen years in the league is that he was always able to rise to the occasion whenever he was being challenged to, you know, to to stay in the league.

There's a great great example where he puts himself in a tough situation so that when the situation is tough, you're used to it.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

K. I'm gonna give you one final one. We'll talk about Jeremy Swayman. So so I did this interesting interview with Swayman and his college goalie coach and now good friend, Alfie Michaud. And, both the guys are just awesome.

I'd you know, I've known Alfie since my days with the Canucks because he actually came in the year after I did, and we've been, you know, friends ever since. I had not spoken to Jeremy Swayman before. I was really, really impressed with this young guy. You know, a lot of times when we interview somebody like a goalie coach who can reflect back, you have a little bit more of that wisdom. When you're young, you still don't know it all.

Right? You're an incredible goalie, but you're still learning. But what was really impress impressive with Swayman is how humble he was, how balanced he was, and also, you know, how important it was to him to raise the competition on his team. So he talks about this partnership that he had with Ullmark and what he was gonna do with any future, you know, goalie partner that he had to push each other to be your best. Right?

So, you know, yes, you're competing, but you're also supporting, and you're pushing that person to be better. Because what happens is if they become better, you become better. If you guys are competing and, you know, becoming the best that you can, what does that do? It raises the standard of your team around you. And when you have a team around you which has standards that raise, now everybody becomes better, everybody gets more success because you're winning more games.

Right? So it was really, really cool to see that. And then another thing he said is he talks about learning to win versus competing. He said, you know, when he played junior hockey and college hockey, he learned how to compete. He goes, but when he got to the NHL, he had to learn how to win.

And, which involves more game management, being able to stay present, handling pressure situations. So that was really interesting as well. And, yeah, it was just a a lot of gems that both, you know, Jeremy and Alfie dropped. So really cool stuff.

I love it. And I I love it even more because the first time we had Jeremy Swayman on the InGoal Radio Podcast, it was with Alfie and me show together. We did a sit down. So, great minds think alike, I guess, Mike. So that's the first time I've given myself credit for being not stupid. I like it.

Now you're you know what? Kevin, not to pump your tires too much, but, you know, you've shown that over the years as well. You're continuously learning and bringing such a tremendous amount of knowledge to this goalie community. It comes from just being hungry, learning from not only other people in the game or in the position, but from people from other sports and other walks of life. So you guys have done a incredible job of that.

Well, I appreciate the tire pump. It's the perfect way to wrap it all up. We started with Tim Thomas, and we ended with a tire pump.

Kevin Woodley.

Those that remember the twenty eleven cup finals will know exactly what we're talking about there. Mike, this is great. For everyone that's listening, we'll have some links to the book in the show notes for the podcast. And, of course, as we said, by the time you hear this, the first excerpt from Jeremy Swayman will have rolled out, and we've got many more to come. Just to give you a taste of this great book that Mike and Justin Goldman have combined on, great for the goalie community, tons of lessons that that everybody can take away, not just as goalies, but as people, as parents, as coaches.

It really is a can't miss, and I'm glad you guys continue to roll up the series. Mike, thanks so much for taking the time today.

Kevin, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Outro

Funny. I I I think of him as part of the Dallas Stars. It'll always be in my head, Dallas Stars.

Naturally, he was there for a long time and worked with a lot of different goalies, had a lot of success there with the Dallas Stars, but Mike's Mike says Mike's an entrepreneur. He's got a lot of different things on the go. He's got Mike's got a curious mind, and that's why he's good to lead these, you know, these questions and answers with these goaltending coaches, goalies from all different walks of life. That's why he's such a valuable part of the goaltending community even if he's not working in it necessarily on a daily basis anymore, and that's why it's great that him and Justin can continue to team up and provide these books, bring these insights. It's kinda like they're like an extended version of the InGoal Radio Podcast.

Like, the interviews we bring you, they transcribe them. They they they focus them more very specifically, transcribe them, turn them into books, and there are tons of great takeaways in them. So and Valley, you know, thanks to them for sharing a bunch of them. Obviously, it's good. Folks, go out and buy the book.

We'll have the links in the show notes. The Tim Thomas stuff was fantastic. Like, this what he gave you there was just a taste of what's in the book. So whether you're looking for an entertaining read, like, full of great stories, looking to get better as a goalie, young or old, insights that will help you, things you can actually translate into your game, this book is loaded with them. So thanks to Mike for taking the time.

Thanks to Mike and Justin for providing us with the excerpts. You can continue to look for those at ingoalmag.com in the coming weeks.

I loved that this interview, Woody, brought up the Tim Thomas stuff. As soon as I was done, as I often do, I sent the interview off to my kid to listen to. I think it ties into what we were saying about the warm up. And the warm up tries to help a goaltender be comfortable. And I mentioned the fact that sometimes in minor hockey, you don't get the time to be as comfortable as you'd like or in a tournament, they throw you a curveball and you're quite uncomfortable.

And I'd love that Tim Thomas talked about wanting to be uncomfortable out there, needing to be uncomfortable to play his best. I thought that was, you know, the whole story around it was just great advice for a young kid to learn from because we spend so much time wanting everything to be just so as we bring our kids up in the game. Probably not as extreme as Tim Thomas asking all the skate companies to come in and let him try some skates on before an NHL playoff game. That was a wild story, but, still great great advice nonetheless.

I don't wanna be uncomfortable. I want every part of my life to be perfectly comfortable.

Don't they talk about stress being a good thing?

Not for me.

Okay.

I don't want any

You probably have more than your fair share

and Me and me and Daren are me and Daren are old. We just we just want our life to be easy. This is why I wear

ball of stress, buddy.

We just that's why I wear all the fat equipment. I don't wanna feel the puck. I don't wanna be hurt. Just I wanna make saves.

Oh, I don't wanna be hurt.

When people talk about this adversity is gonna be good for a player or a team down the road, I'm thinking, I I want the easiest path ever. And tomorrow, I wanted an easier path.

Adversity is gonna come at some point, so you better get ready for it.

Listen. If adversity built champions every single time, the Vancouver Canucks win the next five Stanley Cups in a row.

They're due. They're due, Woody.

Let me tell you, I've been surrounded by adversity and challenge

since this year. Some drama. I think teams are we're 32 now in the league. It's gonna go to 34 soon. I I think organizations are going to have to consciously not stop trying to win a Stanley Cup, but change how they view success in the National Hockey League.

Because teams even if you rotate it, you're gonna go thirty four years between Stanley Cups. And that's on the best case scenario if if everything's just even. Teams aren't gonna win cups ever.

Teams and fans. Right? Because how often do you hear people say, well, this team would have just survived in that market if only they were winners. Like, not everybody can win the cup every year. Almost everybody can.

To a to a a I feel like you're speaking to me right now. No. No. No. I'm not.

You're supposed to be a fan, Woody.

No. No. Not I didn't say fans, but, like, teams that aren't gonna win Stanley Cups. My dad always said, they just just once before I die.

Well, we didn't pull

that one off, did we?

Montreal is the last Canadian team to win. They they've got now seven teams in Canada, and they haven't won since '93. Any of them. Never mind a single franchise. So I just I think management coaches, everybody, you don't stop try players.

You don't stop trying to win, but you're going to have to change how you view success from a turnover of coaches, turnover of managers, scouts, hockey operations.

No. I'm I'm not sure if in to have to win.

Well, there are some teams that that that view it more from a bottom line approach, and some of that means just making the playoffs because that means you get a bunch of gate revenue.

So But I don't I don't think that's wrong. I don't think that's terrible.

There you go. See? They're ahead of the curve.

That's my motivational speech. Easy path and rein in expectations.

Daren's applying for one of for team thirty three or thirty four as the new GM.

No. No. I'm just I'm just looking for be rewarded for less and the easier path.

You know how they like to put, like, slogans on the dressing room walls? Like, you know, like, here in Vancouver, it's embrace the hard that was on a rick talk. It's a little bit I'm waiting for the I'm waiting for the slogan across the top or outside the dressing wall, quote unquote, let's be realistic here.

Good enough is good is better. Yep. Easier is better, and you tap that sign on the way out and regain.

Back checking be, damn. Just make it look

like you're saying. I want the easier path. Thanks, guys. Can't wait to, talk to you next week. And then when we get into the Four Nations Cup, I I really do wanna pick Woody's brain about where we are from performance, in more on the individual side of things, like who's having great seasons that we're we don't have time to talk about every week because there's four or five games for that team.

Love it. Love it. There's some young names. Man, we have not talked about enough. We're planting the seed here.

We can talk about a Askeroff in a small sample, Dustin Wolf. We talked about Logan Thompson today, Filip Gustafson. Like, hell of a steal in the headlines. He's been great. Like like, full deserved.

Let's not get that wrong, but there are some other stories behind him that maybe deserve a little more shine as well. So happy to bring the spotlight to those guys too, especially Dustin Wolf in Calgary, Wowsers.

Leave you with this story. I was at work the other morning getting ready for a game in my office. Our studio is in in the practice rink, so I just have to walk around, maybe a couple 100 feet over to get to the studio, and I get a text from somebody who's out watching a minor hockey tournament right behind me on the ice on Rink A. And they said, you wouldn't believe who's coaching the team on the visitor's bench. I looked down.

Florida is playing Vegas, Roberto Luongo.

Come on.

On the bench coaching. Yeah. Kids playing. Lou's coaching. That's pretty cool.

Son's a goalie. Yeah.

Shoot. I didn't go run down

there and ask him what to do for the warm up.

I thought

of, yeah, I thought

of going down and saying hi and going, hey. Woody Woody says hi, but he's he's on a trip with his family, and he doesn't need me walking up and giving him fist bumps.

But Woody says hi. How about Woody says what happened to us being the only podcast you'll do?

Yeah. That woulda.

Comple of cases of Pink Pink Whitney fixes everything.

It was it was kinda neat to to look down and lose on the bench. Coached him. Talk to you next week on InGoal Radio, the podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports, thehockeyshop.com.