InGoal Radio Episode 294 with Filip Gustavsson of the Minnesota Wild

Intro

InGoal Radio, the podcast presented by The Hockey Shop. Thehockeyshop.com. Source for Sports Langley. We are going to delve into one of the biggest debates in goaltending today. Tuck or untuck.

Plus movement at the deadline. We've got a great feature interview brought to you by NHL Sense Arena with Filip Gustafson. Say hello to the cofounders of InGoal Magazine, David Hutchison and Kevin Woodley. David, you have to talk instead of just waving.

Hello, Darren. It's lovely to see you. Hello, listeners. It's awesome to have you along for the ride. How's that?

I was talking. Now you're not

talking. What's why is Woody not talking?

Oh, it'll be the last time all day.

You guys are not very nice to me. Me me and Hutch are tired, so is Daren. This has been a grind of a week. Hutch is just killing himself with the upcoming goalie coaches guide and online directory. Folks, if you're just hearing about this for the first time, make sure you get in touch with us at coaches@ingoalmag.com.

It's getting a little late in the day, but you can probably still sneak a free listing in the next twenty four hours or so. Daren's been grinding with NHL games in the trade deadline. I've been grinding with NHL games in the trade deadline. It's been a busy week, so it's nice to sort of kick back, take a deep breath, and talk a little goaltending with you boys. Also, in addition to Philip Gustafson for this week's podcast, we got a solid half hour with the legend of Marc Andre Fleury that we're gonna hold on to for a future edition.

So it's been a busy but a good week here at InGoal.

You're you're not committing to what edition that is?

Yeah. Why why are we, like, playing with episode number afraid

you can't come up with six more guests.

Yeah. Because because because Fleury makes perfect sense to be episode 300. He is that special, one of the all time greats, and we have episode 300, which is a nice milestone coming up for us. But to Hutch's point, one of two things could happen that would derail us holding him for episode 300. One would be I can't something happens one of these weeks and a guest bails.

And two would be Dominic Hasek shows up to do episode 300 because that's about like, you got you know, maybe Patty Roy

Paul doubleheader. We go doubleheader, tripleheader. We can celebrate all day long if it's 300.

Like, Fleury's Fleury's such a such a great goalie and great person and great guy to talk to that it would pretty much, in my mind, take one of those, you know, greatest of all time, like what do they say? The this what's the, you know, what's the thing on the wall? The canyon with the pictures.

Oh, Mount Rushmore.

He would have it would have to be somebody on the Mount Rushmore.

How did you get that from thing on the wall? Like, thing on the wall, I don't come up with Mount Rushmore.

I was making was hand gestures and we've been working together for a long time.

Fifteen plus years. I get Woody.

I'm looking around my my room going

Thank you.

What? What's he talking about? And then you go Mount Rushmore.

Yeah. That's it. Seriously, Hutch and me have been together for so long doing this that he can see into the brain and see the gaps that have been caused by all the concussions and pick out a

Thing on the side of the mountain maybe, but not in the wall.

Mount Rushmore. Was struggling to come up

Great with minds think alike, Woody.

Very impressed.

Thanks, buddy. We we should we should do charades together.

My mother also said simple minds seldom differ, so I don't know.

So you're thinking Hasek may show

up? No. I'm just saying those those those are one of two things that could happen in order to bump Fleury out of out of number 300. It's a pretty what I'm trying to say very poorly clearly because I spent four minutes saying it now is that it would take something significant for us to run Marc-Andre Fleury instead anywhere other than episode 300.

Hey, Daren. Do you remember at the beginning where you said Woody was being silent? You spent four minutes to say, we got a Fleury for episode 300.

Yeah. Four minutes.

That's why he gets paid to talk to people online and I just sit here quietly.

You think I get paid by the minute? I'd be a rich man if so.

Oh, god. Yeah.

I got a funny story for you guys from being on the ice with one of our our buddies. I'll I'll say that for a little bit, but it's just cool how you get to be inside the world, but you're really not in the world because you're not good enough to be in the world. And this just

Oh, I can't wait to hear.

Back and forth. The goalie market at the NHL trade deadline, I was putting it at about one and a half for a number of goalies moved, and we blew through that. Not exactly where I expected. Like, everybody's looking at Binnington or Skinner or John Gibson. None of those guys moved.

Spencer Knight goes to the Chicago Blackhawks, and then you've got Mrazek and Chris Driedger and Vitek Vanecek along with Kaapo Kahkonen. So there there was a lot of quantity in there.

Four trades involving five goalies that is over any of the betting lines that I would have participated in. I would have bet the under, and I would have been wrong. So to me, the most significant one, and it's not a win now deal, it's not a load up down the stretch deal, but Spencer Knight to the Chicago Blackhawks is part of that Seth Jones deal. I'm not sure that I'm not sure that the public understands how good this young man is already, let alone can be. I think a lot of people see the pedigree and know what the possibilities are.

But when I looked up his numbers for the season right now in in Florida and and after, you know, his first start with Chicago or first couple starts here with Chicago, he's at plus 1.4% adjusted save percentage, and that probably means nothing to anyone. But it's basically where his save percentage sits relative to the environment he participates in. That is sixth in the National Hockey League. That is up there slightly above the Igor Shesterkins, Connor Hellebuycks, and Filip Gustafsons of the world in the top 10 right now. That is an impressive season he's having.

Now, obviously, a smaller sample size. It can be tougher to continue that when you start to play the number of games that a Shesterkin or a Hellebuyck or a Gustafson is playing, but impressive nonetheless. And a hint that for all the talk of pedigree and upside and potential when it comes to Spencer Knight, the reality is he's already living up to a lot of it.

You just whetted the appetite, though. That that was

a beautiful breakdown on Spencer Knight. But who's who's one to five? I gotta know now.

Do I get a drum roll? Alright. Okay. That was good. Number one.

Oh, oh, oh, hold on.

You gotta go from five.

Yeah. Let's go to reverse order. And this one maybe actually, maybe this one should be taken out because I I cut the threshold at 250 chances. We're far enough in the season that, you know, that's not significant. But so he's only seen 260 tiny sample size.

But how about Levi Merilinen?

Merilinen.

I always struggle with that one, the Ottawa senators. I heard somebody, it might have been your old friend, Daren, Doug McLean on the radio the other day with Kipper and Born were saying, Ottawa's best goal is in the American League. But, you know, like, you just, like, picture that with the way he does it. It's so well, he's not wrong. That kid that kid was having a hell of a year.

Number four, Dustin Wolf of the Calgary Flames. Number three, another small sample size guy. So maybe I take out the small sample size guy and Spencer Knights into the top five easily. Frederik Andersen in a tiny sample has performed really well. Number two, Logan Thompson, the biggest sample of this crew outside of Dustin Wolf.

And number one, Stolarz's mid sized sample. Right? Bigger than the two small guys, but, injuries obviously cost him a stretch of the season. Number one in adjusted save percentage at this point in the year. Now, like I said, the Shesterkins, Hellebuycks, Spencer Knight, Pew Piotr Kochetkov as well, Filip Gustafson, Mackenzie Blackwood, they're all sort of kicking around in that top 10 with a lot more games played and shots faced, but that's who your top five are right now at that 250 chance cutoff.

What's a what's a fair number of chances to cut it off at this point in the season? Know? Being unfair at two fifty?

Pro probably around 400 or so. That would you know, you're you know, Spencer Knight's only seen 590, like, you know, so so he because he hasn't been a starter. You know, I I guess it depends. You wanna filter for just the guys who are number ones or one a's, or do you wanna include guys that have had small set? Like, Frederik Andersen's, it's because of injury.

Right? We know he can be a starter. So I'd I'd say probably four, four fifty, and then all of sudden, Spencer Knight's fourth in the National Hockey League if I do that.

And there's one true veteran guy in that group. I would say Frederik Andersen that's been a number one. That that's what jumps out to me about that list.

Yeah. Fair fair point. And there's also quite a bit of say, inconsistency wouldn't be a fair word, but there's a there's a lot of ups and downs in there. Like like, a month ago, Logan Thompson was almost double that. A month ago, I was talking about him having a season much like like, Igor Shesterkin when they were talking about he he should win the Hart trophy.

Like, that's how good he was sort of through early January, and it's dropped off a little bit. Wolf's actually continued to climb as the season's gone on. Obviously, Merilinen is in the American Hockey League right now. Stolarz just kinda just picked up right where he left off since coming back from injury. So, know, there's a lot of sort of different ways to get there.

And I would I would argue, you know, even like a Connor Hellebuyck who was near the top of this list through January, he he dropped off in January again relative to the environment. Not a lot of people notice it because that environment's the best defensive in the NHL. It's it's just really interesting to kinda look through these numbers. And again, to get back to the point I was trying to make before I ran into my bad case of verbal diarrhea, Spencer Knight is good. I should have left it at that.

Hey, Spencer Knight, he's good.

At least I helped you go down the rabbit hole this time and sent you after other stats and not all on you. You can blame me.

Thanks, Hutch. Mhmm.

I chatted with Paul Maurice, head coach of the Florida Panthers on 100% hockey that I do with my buddy John Shannon. And it was after the trade. It was in fact, it was, like, twenty minutes after they did the Vanecek deal. So we got a little bit on on on that as well. But on Spencer Knight, he said, Spencer Knight is more cut out to be a starter, a number one guy than a backup.

When he gets into a rhythm and he he plays like he's solid, he a little inconsistent when he's a backup, and he expects big things with Chicago. And I thought that was an interesting thing. He also said, I know nothing about goaltending, and I I don't pretend to know anything about goaltending. But his his perception of watching Spencer when he was had the chance to play a little more regularly versus being the backup, which he he was to Bob, was two slightly different performance levels.

Which bodes well because the numbers I gave you in terms of his performance was mostly while playing sporadically behind Bob. Right? So that, I mean, that only bodes well to hear that. I will say that for a guy who says he doesn't know much about goaltending, Paul Maurice had a hell of a butterfly in that, playoff documentary when he when he was down on his knees in the locker room trying to show the guys where to shoot. That was so good.

We have to ask him about that.

I believe you got him on your show. That's awesome. He I'd love to have him on here just to talk about goaltending even though he thinks he doesn't know anything. He'd be entertaining.

We we could do thirty minutes with him even though he he himself claims he doesn't know anything about goaltending.

He's he's kinda runs a little like me. Is thirty when you say thirty minutes, is that three or four questions, Daren?

Episode Episode 299. Here we go.

Paul Paul is a hockey writer's dream. Every time I've asked him a question and quite often about goaltending or scoring and the trends around it, I get a well thought out, insightful, and thankful I have a subscription service to transcribe answer.

Paul and Bruce Cassidy would be my go to for head coaches. If I could, like, do one of those hot stoves, man, oh, man, it'd be good. They'd end up just talking with each other. It'd be it'd be so awesome. Love oh, and here's another one.

We had Scottie Bowman on a couple of weeks ago. And at the end of it, Scottie, like, it usually happens, he wants he starts asking us questions because he just wants to talk hockey. Stolarz. He's just captivated by Stolarz. Want wanted to know why Stolars had bounced around a couple of different teams because he's been so impressed with them at every stop and continues to be wowed by Stolarz with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

So the great Scottie Bowman had they and and this is, I would say, more of a random guy that he picked out in in Anthony Stolarz was interested.

Well, there's a great and there's a great story and a great answer there too. Right? And it's one we've touched on in the past, and it involves our good friend Sudarshan Maharaj of the Anaheim Ducks. Because when Stolarz was signed by Anaheim and he started going through video, he saw a guy that had never fully recovered from one of the surgeries he had previously. And when he met him, he realized that one side of his body on like, from a leg strength standpoint was so much further ahead than the side that had been injured, and he'd never been given the time or a program to execute or, like, the time to execute a program or the program itself to balance out his body.

And it was the belief that Sudzi had in Anthony and the determination to give him an off season program to help him find that balance physically that was a big part of the building blocks of getting him and and this in Toronto was not like, his numbers last year in Florida were off the charts good again in a backup role to Bob. And so there were signs this was coming. And when you talk to Anthony about it, I have, he really credit Sudzi for that work and for taking the time to fly all the way to New Jersey to sort of see him train off ice and recognize some of the shortcomings. And then they had him go to Anaheim to help start to correct it in the off season rather than waiting till September and seeing if he could just play the way he was playing before. So, you know, I know I know that relationship remains strong between those two, because, Sudzi had such a strong impact on Anthony Stolarz and helped him basically rebuild the body that was broken on one side.

Just occurred to me. Last year to this year, the Florida Panthers now have three starting goaltenders. Number one guys or co number ones with the Stolarz battling Woll and Spencer Knight and our friend Bob. That's that's pretty impressive in in one year going from that kind of depth.

It's it

Maybe that's why they picked up Mrazek and Vitek Vanecek and trying to replenish some of that depth.

Well, Vanecek, for sure, Mrazek obviously went to Detroit, but

Oh, sorry.

Probably Keeping up. Probably has something to do with having a department of goaltending full of people that know about the position.

Paul Maurice's did mention that. I can't remember the word he used, but it conglomerate or something like that. And he's he's pretty accurate with like, run down the list of people in the Florida panthers goaltending department.

Some guy named Luukkonen heads it up. Heard of him. Pretty good. He's got Francois Allaire as a consultant. They have Leo Luukkonen, who was an excellent goalie coach.

He actually recently transferred from being dedicated to the American Hockey League on a goalie coaching standpoint to doing a lot more scouting and development work. They then hired, Sly, Sylvan, Rodriguez away from the Edmonton Oilers to be their American Hockey League goalie coach. And then they got Robbie Tallas, who we know well here on the InGoal Radio Podcast and and an InGoal Premium as their NHL goaltending coach. So I I I wasn't doing the fingers thing as I ran through it. Maybe you guys were.

That sounds like five or six really good names in really good positions all working together to make the position of goaltending better for the Florida Panthers.

It's a lot of offices.

Fair.

Or desks. Fair. Or cubicles.

I just pictured them like scouts standing leaning on the railing looking over the the ice. So it's just a certain amount of railing feet.

I like that. I

like hey. Can can I actually you know, we didn't schedule this, but can I can I digress for a second on goalie coaching?

Never would you digress, Woody.

Well, I mean, talking about departments and things that, you know, guys that have positive impacts on things.

Go nuts.

Maybe you guys saw it. We've already put it on our socials, but Four Nations Cup and the trophy itself was sent to the Hockey Hall of Fame. And the Hockey Hall of Fame showed off a picture because they didn't engrave the team names on it. And David Alexander, the goaltending coach for Team Canada, who was at the tournament, who was on the ice working with the goalies, who obviously has a special bond with Jordan Binnington. I hope everyone saw certainly in the Canadian feed as the celebration was going on.

You saw them off in the back corner go for a big hug behind the scenes, who I know. Now I don't know the details in terms of his role with Canada, but this guy's one of the premier breakdown pre scout guys when it comes to goaltending coaches. So my guess is he would've had a voice in figuring out how to score another guys. I was I was disappointed, shocked, but I guess maybe I shouldn't be, but really disappointed not to see his name engraved in the trophy alongside what I what appeared to be every level of management, that was involved in it. I'm not saying they didn't deserve to be there.

Everybody did. But to not include a guy who is on the ice, and part of the coaching staff to me is just, you know, again, maybe it was none intended, but it certainly feels disrespectful to a craft that is so often disrespected at the National Hockey League level, including by the Hockey Hall of Fame where they refuse to even consider voting for somebody in the builder category despite having a guy like Francois Allaire essentially changed the game with the with with what he did with the position. So end rant by Woody, but I was a little pissed to see that if I'm honest, boys.

Amen, Woody. Woody. Amen.

Woody, I don't wanna speak for them, but I will slide in an observation. I think it was just a honest oversight.

Can they fix it?

I I I don't think there is I don't think there is anything calculated there to leave them off. Just based on you talked about the players and the management, the support staff were were all listed on on that as well. So I I truly believe somehow he just got left off the list, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correction.

I hope there is because we've seen goaltending coaches be left off other lists before when it comes to these things. Hell. For years, they didn't even bother to take one to international competitions in Canada. They just neglected it completely. So to have one there that I I believe played a role in this and then ignore it, maybe if it's not ignorance and it's just an honest mistake, then chalk it up and hopefully they get it fixed.

Regardless, it should be on there.

I'll check for you, but that's the way I'm reading this.

And I get I get it.

Just purely just purely an honest oversight.

Yeah. And I hope so, Daren. I really do hope so. And hopefully, they get it corrected because he deserves to be there. He's he's he's he's one of the he's one of the top guys in the game.

He's got a Stanley Cup. He's been a big part of Binnington's success, and it just it you know, obviously, it irked me. As you as you may be able to tell, it pissed me off.

Gear

Mhmm. Well, this is gonna be interesting then because we've got one of the great controversies in goaltending history going back a long way to deal with in the Gear Segment presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. Tuck or untuck. And if you're on either side, you are a staunch defender of this, of you of your approach to it. What are we going to do?

How do we how do we deal with this today in the Gear Segment?

Well, before we get to how we deal with it today, and I may just end up sitting on the fence by the time it's all over. So there's a a clue to how Come join me on the fence. Job Cam yeah. How good a job that Cam does selling his position to me in our upcoming Gear Segment. Let me just say that there are exciting things going on at the Hockey Shop right now, including the demo sale.

Once a year, they put last season's demo equipment for sale up to 70% off to the public. We talk a lot about all the things that you make the hockey shop unique. The ability to take out loaner gear and try before you buy, not just at their annual TendiFest every summer to take it on the ice as part of that, but to take gear out that they've purchased as demo gear every season. So, you know, I'm thinking of switching from one company to the other, but I wanna try it, see how it feels, see how it fits, see how it flexes, see how it performs with my game. They have a demo program at thehockeyshop.com, so make sure you check that out.

And once a year, they sell off the old demos. That time is now. It is selling fast. There's a chance by the time you hear this, it will be largely sold out. So get there as soon as you do.

Go check it out at thehockeyshop.com. They got lots of new stuff in stock. They got lots of sales on other, you know, previous year inventory as the new stuff all comes in, but the demo sale is live now. Make sure you check it out at thehockeyshop.com. As for tuck or untuck, Daren, I have firmly been team untucked.

Let's go over to the hockey shop right now and see if Cam can convince me the wisdom of his ways as a full tuck guy. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Where it is dress up day for me?

Standing room only.

Yes. Standing room only. I get to try on pants and chest protectors because we're gonna talk a little bit about tuck and untuck. Yeah. The benefits, who does what.

Exactly. What do you do, Cam?

Tuck all the way.

I'm an untucked guy.

Yeah. See, now we got two varying degrees. So why don't we even start off? Why?

There's actually very little reason for it. As a matter of fact, I should be the ultimate tuck guy because I lost an appendix to being untucked.

So there's already a vote for tucking it.

And yet I still untuck.

Now we get this question, you know, very, very common and especially it's one of those things, well, if nobody ever really showed you why or the alternate option, you just kinda threw your chest on and probably just went for it.

Right? Well, I I yes. And it becomes a personal preference at some point.

100%.

I like having just a little extra bulk. So it's untucked. It's a little bigger. Little freedom of movement. I like it.

So we're gonna preface this right off the bat. There's no right or wrong answer here. Like My way is the right way. However, there are some benefits to

Although, almost nobody in the NHL uses my way.

See? There's another note. So let's get into it a little bit more. So we'll have Kevin again continue to play a little bit of dress up. So we'll start with showing off what is, in theory, untucked.

So if he wants to grab the chest protector down to his left here. Bauer, paper. THS spec.

THS Spec. That's in shadow. Shadow arms.

Shadow arms on the okay.

We're gonna get loud here for a sec, folks. Comfortable unit. Probably wouldn't normally wear my wristwatch on the ice, but, you know.

Alright. So how are

we looking here?

Hold your arms out, Cam. With the chest protector over top, Kevin's belly widens out by quite a bit, so your initial overall net presence is gonna be wide down low. He's sitting into his crouch. He kind of gives that, again, that illusion that he is covering more or less from his waist side out. Drawback, though, go to go seal up, Kevin.

He starts to now push that chest protector together. Essentially, he's hitting not necessarily a hard stop, but he's now pulling that chest forward. So now as a bit of a drawback, if I now tuck his chest protector in, he'll hit a hard stop versus allowing that chest to scrunch up in front of him. So here's some of the differences now that we can start to see, especially on a chest protector that's used a little bit more, a little bit sloppier. It's like, yeah, can leave it loose and let it flow out over top, but again, as soon as you seal up, that chest puck now bulks and moves forward.

So whether or not You can

actually I never I'll be honest with you. I never thought of this, but you can actually kinda see it from the side, like, kinda sitting nice. And then once I'm it does pop forward

underneath. Exactly.

And if I'm looking down at a puck, I'm guessing that's interfering with the chin of my mask as well.

Interfering if you're looking through a screen and fighting through and essentially you're making yourself potentially a little bit narrower trying to cut again down and make sure that you have no holes, but if it's going outside or it's tipped, it's like essentially you have lost overall size.

So That makes no sense to me. I'm bigger. Not yet. Okay.

So what you do gain here now is freedom of motion. Push side to side. Oh. Dancing. As you can see, there's no interference.

Kevin's allowed to move freely. No issues there. So here's where usually the most feedback comes from leaving that chest untucked is that I don't like anything to be attached down low. I like that feeling of being able to twist and move my units independently. So, again, this again comes down to all personal preference based off of, you know, what your specific feel is down low.

But here's some of the kinda looks of that feel of untucked. Now we're gonna show Kevin tucking in this wonderful CCM EFlex chest and a couple of things unique to CCM that we will show off here in a moment.

Interestingly enough, this is a chest protector I wear untucked.

[crosstalk] Oh. So this is a real social experiment. So as usual, there's multiple different ways that you can do things here. So resist the urge to put it over front. We're gonna now shove this in.

So at your most basic, you wanna get that chest all the way in. For starters, you can see pants have laces. What are the laces for in the pants? Well, they coincide with that nice little nylon tab right there. So the basic of tying yourself down, feed that through and a nice simple knot.

So as you can already feel probably Kevin, is that it's now pulling the chest down kind of in the front. You'll have a little bit of that kind

of tug feeling, for example.

So CCM pants have an internal belt. On that belt, there's always been these clips on the side. Everyone always thought it was to center that belt inside the pant. Actually, it coincides with this nylon tab right here. Does it coincide?

Coinside. You can now tuck in your chest and secure it down without suspenders. Yeah. You feel

it? I feel it.

Oh, you feel it? So now that Kevin's sitting in, you can see the pant is now basically essentially being held up to a bit of a degree by those mounting points on the chest. It's creating a little bit of a natural tug to the chest too as a little like pulling it down. Go into a crouch for me like you're in a stance. So you can see though that chest still rides back up.

So everyone's always gonna say about that neckline. I mean, in theory, you're gonna be wearing your neck guard or a dangler and make sure that you have the ultimate of protection. What now I do like about this, now go to go seal up. So you've been hit a bit of a hard stop. The chest hits the sides, and you can't really go anywhere else.

But it doesn't come forward. Exactly. Okay.

So now how you feel like you're not being resisted, you're allowed to see over top of yourself a little bit more. You can get your arms in front a bit easier. In theory, you should have a little bit better control in terms of for trapping that puck against your chest. Move side to side. Now, again, you can see his whole unit kinda moves more as a one piece, so it's gonna wanna tug on the pants a little bit.

You can probably feel that as you go to go turn. Now that depends on the person. It depends on your own personal preference. If you don't mind that feeling of that little bit of torque as you go to go turn, then no problem. Your protection's gonna move as one.

No gaps as well. He's armored all the way down. There he'll have his cup on too as well, so that will give him the rest of the protection that he needs.

Cup check today, Cam.

No. No cup check today. Next question. Okay. I don't have CCM pants, so I don't have that fancy little trick.

How do I now gonna keep that chest locked in? Suspenders. Up and over top of your shoulder floaters. Now I like to tuck my suspenders in behind my shoulder floaters so that helps to keep any plastic bits and stuff covered as well as stop the actual suspender from floating away on you. You'll feel that around your neck.

Again, if you wear a neck guard or anything like that, you won't feel that like elastic against your neck. That said, there are some guys and some chest protectors that specifically line up that you can actually run the suspender over the shoulder.

And you can some of

them Exactly. Have that So like say like a Vaughn, even a Bauer for example, on the shadow, they have that little strap that's up at the top that helps to anchor that suspender up on top. Again, if you find that your shoulder floaters are now riding up a little bit too high on you, that's where I potentially recommend this. However, keep in mind, there's a difference between that and pumping that shoulder floater up or playing out pulling it down with that suspender. What if I want my shoulder floater to

pop up and take a little extra?

Then you're probably better off running it, like I said, behind that shoulder floater itself. The downside? If you run it over top, in theory, you're taking away some size, presence to yourself. Do I

look smaller, folks, than I did in the other one? I feel a little more compact. I gotta be honest. I feel a lot more mobile than I thought I would. I'm starting to wonder if maybe this is the

way I should go. It might be the way? Anecdotally at this point, but like you said, majority of guys that we've seen so far

I don't see the guys get dressed in the show, but the majority of guys from what I can see are talking.

This is how I exactly wear my gear myself.

Not that that means anything. No. Pretty low bar from a performance standpoint Right

about there. Bar is quite high though. That said, it is something worth trying. Pair of suspenders, a little bit of a wider set of pants. Give it a shot, folks.

Let us know what you do in the comments below. Let me

know if I look bigger in the first one or this one. Which would you recommend? This would be a little woody experiment. Got a couple more skates this week. I might give us a go, Cam.

Maybe some feedback from Kevin later on.

Too late for my appendix, but not too late for yours. If you got any questions, make sure you give them a shout because there are, as Cam said, different models. Obviously, these pants have an inner belt, makes it

a little easier to do chest at hybrid tuck too as well. Maybe get

out in front without also tucking into your pants. That's a Bauer Shadow thing specifically, but there's more options to this. There's more than five different ways to get it done. Give us a call. We can talk about it.

(604) 589-8299 or 1-800-567-7790. Check Or us out at the hockeyshop.com, but I don't think you're gonna find a whole

lot of information on talk versus untuck. Do talk or untuck? That is the question. Shakespeare, folks. I heard the raw recording of that the first time.

Please tell me you left in a little bit of the because because I could tell what was going on while you were doing it. It it actually made sense to leave some of that in. So, Hutch, did you?

Not yet finished, but I'll do my best for you.

Theater of the mind. You could have just said yes.

Yeah. But we haven't finished the show, so I haven't finished the editing of the show.

It is a great reminder, folks, that a lot of that swish swish swishing is me getting changed as we shoot the video as Daren listened to the raw, which is also a great reminder that there's a visual component to this over on our YouTube channel. And in this case, particular, especially since a lot of the conversation went to how big I did or didn't look tucked or untucked, I would highly recommend checking that out.

I need to see that because I've transitioned from tucked to untucked in the last three years. And I'll be honest

I credit for that.

Yeah. And it was from you, you talked about it so passionately that I gave it a try and I love it. And I've gone, had two different chesties in that period and used it with both. The reason I didn't for the longest time was the mirror test. I didn't wanna look pudgy.

I didn't wanna look fat, like the thing hanging down there. And I found it doesn't when you're untucked, and I just have more freedom. I don't get as hot either, and

That's a

good I just enjoy it more. And I'm surprised to hear the the other side with with now the advantages of being tucked from a making saves point.

Yeah. And and I hadn't thought on that way, and especially the idea of the chest sorta if it's untucked and you push your arms together, like in a like, just in a sort of cradle save that it pushes that chest protector forward, which to me, I've definitely noticed that, you know, you can get that chesty pushes up into the bottom of your

I'm with you there. That does happen.

Yeah. Chin of the mask. Yeah. And so that that come becomes a bit of an issue at times. I'm gonna try the other way.

I'm with you, Daren. I like Team Untucked despite, as we said in the segment there, I have literally lost an appendix to Team Untucked, and it was poorly fitting. That might have been part of the problem.

The appendix?

Well, the appendix the appendix was no longer fitting at all. Thanks to the slap shot that that hit the bare the bare area, because the equipment was ill fitting and the goalie kind of sucked and got all twisted around. We we talk a lot about counter rotation. When I first started playing, I was the definition of counter rotation. And counter rotation and a bad fit between your chest and your pants leaves holes that someone exposed.

So it's a long story. I almost died. I remind my wife of it on an annual basis that it's her fault. But beyond that, despite that, I still go untuck. I'm gonna try the other way.

For you, Daren, though, you also mentioned that untuck gives you a little bit of an air gap. So as much as that chest may push forward in a cradle save, if you're facing NHL shooters like you are, a little bit of a chest pushed forward gives you an air gap between your body and the puck hitting your chest, which might help with the comfort level with, some of those rockets

you've I know why it's I I think you can get a bit of an air gap and be to team tuck. Because you don't have to cinch everything down as tightly as you possibly can. So if you let the pants hang wide wide open, and if you keep the suspenders fairly loose, you're not compressing everything down, you still get a get a bit of an air gap. So I was towards the end of my time playing, I was fully team tuck. And and I think when you reach both the beer league age and the beer league figure, Daren did it for vanity reasons with the mirror.

For me, I think it was just for practical reasons. I was already pushing out far enough. I didn't need the chesty to stick even further out.

Well, let's be honest though. Like, you'd it does you don't have to look like an unmade bed if you

are Some guys do though. Right? Like, you see it in the show.

Yeah. Like, not any Some guys do. I I was surprised that I didn't. I was expecting it to look sloppy and it it Yeah.

How tight do you make the chesty on you? Like, it's got straps too. You could strap that thing down real firm and have no air gap and still be untucked.

Yeah. Untucked does not mean automatic on Anton Khudobin.

That's a good that's a good analogy.

And I love me some Anton Khudobin, don't get me wrong. But like again, a guy who at times kind of looked like an unmade bed out there.

Did you hear Cam talk about neck guard and dangler?

I heard him talk about the neck guard. I do recall something about a dangler. I may have had a if you check the YouTube video, you'll probably see a guilty look there when he talked about the dangler because I knew you're gonna go right to that, Daren. Certainly, I will say this. The tuck chesty with the the CCM one where how the the clips integrate in that segment or using the laces on the pants to sort of tie it down, I definitely felt like the chest was pulled lower.

And I and I would be I'm already where pretty a pretty sturdy, beefy, well padded neck protection, with d three o foam in it for protection reasons. I would be considering a dangler given the amount of exposure that that sort of tucking in felt to me like it was creating. And I also gotta say, like, I I need to do more mirror test because pulling it down over my shoulders, like, one of the reasons I like with untucked is I don't mind the chest protector popping up when I drop to the ice. I like a little extra coverage over the shoulders. I don't want everything being too connected if it's at the expense of being bigger and covering more real estate.

Especially as a guy who closes his eyes when he makes most of the sense.

Funny that you say that. I'd love to know what what the Allaire way of doing all that was because you don't want it too connected. But remember that was knee pads to pants to chesty so that when you went down, it pushed the chesty up quite on purpose as a result of being connected.

And that was more about the knee pads being connected to the pants, which pushed the pants up. And, of course, back then the inner belt was legal. Of course, I have an inner belt. And because that would allow your inner belt to stay connected to your waist while the barrel of the pant pushed up and the chest went with Yeah.

Connected a bit. Right? And

But again, you needed to connect the knee pads.

No. No. I just I started with that.

I'm just The pants just dropped.

Yeah. Started with that. I'm just saying. It's interesting. The the other thing I seem to recall, because I was definitely definitely tied down for that reason of not wanting it to ride up into my neck, although I it wasn't it was just to the point that it would stop that, but not cinch down the way you had it in the video, I think.

I seem to remember somebody made a chesty where there was actually a tie down point inside the chesty so that you could be team untucked, you could still tie the pants to the inside of the chesty and hold it down. I think

That would make

sense. If not, that's a good idea for somebody to incorporate.

Make total sense if that would. No. What do think?

There'd be a little on the inside of the chesty.

Yeah. What do you what do you what do fully supports your motion to to make us to make to make us all

make If I didn't see then I wrote it in a suggestion to a company when we were reviewing a a chesty.

And if it doesn't exist, then it's my idea.

Exactly.

On the subject of the the mirror test, I was skating with some of the AHL guys in Henderson this morning, actually. And one one of the players was commenting on my gears, like, I think you have the nicest set in the in the league. Nice.

Nice. And what is it? Yeah.

What is it? What what kind of gear are you wearing? CCM. CCM. Keep going.

Axis AF. AF. That is what

it should have been named. Am I so in your head that you just called it that and it wasn't a

focus? That's I always do it because you said it first and it makes sense.

CCM should have listened to me.

Okay. Got it wrong there.

But That's alright. That's

alright. To it. Accessing.

Well, may be it may

be XF, but when you wear it with the color pattern that you chose and then as as sick as it looks, it is AF all the way.

And I also told the the player, I said, well, it's it it looks like new. You I I didn't wanna ask him how many years he thought that I had it. Just nobody had said like new. But we were doing a drill, and and Freddie Rathwaite was out there, and he was working with one of the goaltenders, and we he rotated in. That goaltender rotated in.

And and then I did a did one drill, and he was yelling at me because I slid across. He's like, stay on your feet. Stay on your feet. It was it was awesome. Like, Freddie's so so fun.

And I said, yeah. Yeah. And and then I saddled up to him and said, the reason why I slid over there is because I I wasn't watching the drill before I went in and was expecting that guy to shoot and thought he was gonna shoot, and then I had to recover and slide over. So then he he understood. But the idea of staying on your feet is now drilled back into my head, and I've been sort of sliding back to

We we talked about this last week.

Yes. That was exactly what I was thinking of. How I was sort of going back to a middle ground between slide, slide, slide to feet, feet, feet to somewhere in the middle.

Well, I think it's probably depends on the level. Hey, Daren? Because, like, I find that, like, in the the beer league type stuff, I can get away with the slide a lot more than I can in the higher end skates.

Yeah. You just if you slide and even if you're good to the slide, it's like you're still not gonna get there. Not gonna happen. Let's get into our, parent segment, brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U the app.

Yes. Stop It Goaltending U the app, as we tell you every week, is something you really need to check out. All the resources, weekly updates, one minute videos, quick hits, five minute deep dives, and then twenty minutes super deep dives. There are new lessons every week that combine the twenty five years of coaching experience at Stop It Goaltending into a simple to use app. And, of course, every time you buy a Stop It Goaltending U, the app subscription, you automatically get a subscription to InGoal Magazine, the premium edition, the best of both worlds, Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and InGoal Magazine, InGoal Premium.

Between the two, we will make you a better goaltender on your time and your terms.

Parent segment with David Hutchison.

Parent Playbook

I'm probably gonna be beating my head against a wall here pointlessly, gentlemen, but today, I would like to say that it is time to change the dialogue around goals and goaltending. Couple of weeks ago, you heard me get a little bit heated, little bit grouchy about all the online commentary about Jordan Binnington. People were labeling the goals that he'd given up at the Four Nations this week, and they were there's a lot of talk about asking people to replace him and, bring somebody else in. He just wasn't good enough for Canada. Look, when you give up two goals, it's a good game no matter how you slice it.

But we always find a way to turn it into a big national debate saying there's no such thing as a good five hole goal as if nothing else in the game matters. I said before that this kind of talk is bad for goalie development and I stand by that. Today, I would like to expand on why and how it applies to you as a goalie parent, as well as to goalies and coaches who are listening. We, of course, are in a unique position because every mistake we make is dissected. And I'd be preaching to the choir if I went too deep into that, of course.

We all know a winger can make 10 mistakes in a game and keep getting his shifts and a goalie makes a couple and suddenly he's down two nothing, might even be sitting on the bench. And everybody in the building is convinced he should have stopped both of them. So let's first go back to my point about Jordan Binnington. If you hop online and start calling out goals while demanding a replacement, you are feeding into the culture of negativity. As a fan, I get it.

It's your right, and I get that that debate can be kind of fun. But as we've said before, this is exactly why Kevin created ProReads. It's to counter all that negativity and let goalies explain what they saw, why they did what they did, and to celebrate the things they did well. So how does all this talk hurt development? Well, for starters, because negativity is really easy and people love to join in.

People echo the negativity. More people pile on and before long, this behavior becomes the norm. It has become the norm. And I know the argument. These guys get paid millions.

They should learn to deal with it. I don't agree with you. But even if you do believe that, here's the real issue. That kind of an attitude trickles down. So the way we evaluate pro goaltender seeps into every level of hockey, junior hockey, minor hockey, right down to the youngest kids.

Parents, coaches, and even worse, other players start doing the same thing. Evaluating a goalie is just all about finding out what he did wrong. So who would want their kid to be a goalie in that environment? You can tell me all day that this kind of criticism builds character and makes kids stronger on and off the ice. Sure.

Maybe to some extent that's true. But what about the ones who get too much of it? They quit. What about the ones who see it happening and think it's all too much? They don't even start.

A lot of goalie coaches struggle with this too, I have to say. They spend a lot of their energy telling goalies what they did wrong. The ones who come out to a team practice, stand in the corner, watch a drill, every time they get a break, they come in. Well, if you just done this, you would have stopped that one. You just set your feet.

If you just had a better stance, if you just held your glove this way, every goal comes with another explanation and it's all negative. Now I am not saying this is every coach at all. There's a lot of great goalie coaches out there, but it is out there. I probably talk about my son too much guys, but here we go again. I was watching Maddie's game last night and, the Moose Jaw Warriors head coach Mark O'Leary was interviewed and he said something that I love.

Not talking about the goaltending. He said, sure, you can point out mistakes, but we've got to catch these kids doing things right and build on that. And that sort of sparked me thinking about this today. To me, that's it right there. We need to change the culture.

We need to be better examples to the kids and to the parents. So instead of hopping online to list mistakes, let's talk about what goalies are doing well. More more stuff like ProReads. And I don't just mean the crazy saves we all love. Like, that's great.

Let's celebrate those. But if you wanna show me your goalie expert, tell me how well a guy skates. Tell me how well he stays in position. Tell me how well he reads the play. Should have had that one that went five hole.

Come on. Give me a break. How is that helping anybody? So parents, the takeaway for me today is twofold. One, please don't feed into this at the rink.

Whether it's pointing out flaws in your kid's goalie partner, the kid playing at the other end, or even your own child, announcing mistakes is not helping. Don't dissect the game with your kid, except to highlight what they did well. Your first conversation after a game should not be about how they could have stopped goal number one, two, or whatever. Catch them doing something right and build off it. I'm not sure what if you're not sure what to say, if you don't think you know the position well enough, well, keep reading InGoal.

Lots of great stuff out in there you can learn from as a parent. Take one of the certification coach courses from USA Hockey or Hockey Canada. And if you want, you can even give me a shout, and I'd be happy to give you a few good things to say. Coaches, I'd say the same thing. In practice, focus on what they do well and build on that.

If you've got a goalie struggling with depth, when he gets it right, jump all over it. Give him high fives. Give him positive reinforcement and ignore the rest. See what happens. Goalies, you too, after a gamer of a practice, ask yourself what you did well.

Think about all the goalies we've had on the podcast who talk about journaling, like Connor LeCouve last week. They spend more time and energy focusing on the positives, so give it a try. When you can take a loss, when you can give up more goals that you'd like, and you can still walk away saying, you know what? Obviously, I wish we'd won, but I feel pretty good about how I played today. Then you know you're on the right track.

And for all of us, let's create a better environment for goalies. Be the example. Yep. I know if we do that, more kids might be open to playing the position. And more importantly, our own kids might enjoy their time at the rink a whole lot more.

I don't think we should ever talk about goals.

I don't really unless it's brought up to me.

I got a challenge for you.

What's up?

Come watch me play and see if you can find anything positive to say.

Woody, you sure look like you're having fun out there. Woody, that gear is beautiful.

Woody, the restraint you showed not smashing your stick after the seventh goal was remarkable.

Yes, sir.

I don't mind goalies get mad every now and then. Like, players do it all the time. Why can't a goaltender show emotion and let it out.

As long as they know how to reel it in and they're not consumed by it, I agree with you completely.

I'm thinking the player who does it, slams the gate, is able to let it go, the same philosophy, but we don't judge them.

Don't we always talk about letting your emotions out and talking about things that are bothering you and so on? Like, that there might be something kind of cathartic about that so that you can get resettled.

Although, again, it is it is a line. You you can get so worked up and angry, and then it it can build tension. You know? You even screaming. I I tend to drop the odd f bomb rather loudly, but even, like, you can feel, like you're letting it go, but also it creates like that anger and that tension.

We don't want that.

We also wanna be that person that can be sort of water off a duck's back and not even let those things get to us in the first place. I'm probably contradicting myself here, but it's it's probably not so much about not getting upset. It's just not even letting ourselves get to that point in the first place.

Yeah. I'm not good at that.

No. A little bit of Zen. Woody needs some meditation in his life.

Our friends at Vizual Edge present ProReads. Who's the conversation with this week?

Devin Cooley of the Calgary Wranglers having a heck of a season with them. I expect them to be in the National Hockey League again soon. We sat down with them last year, so the video will be of him in the San Jose Sharks uniform at the end of last season. We have a great breakdown this week. Four on three power play.

Devin gets into stance, some of the changes he made last year. I think we've seen that evolution continue in Calgary this year. He gets into reads in terms of when you can be narrow versus when to get into a wider stance, how to preread the options. There's lots of them in a four on three, it might think it's very a lot of open ice and a lot of dynamic. But in a moment, he basically isolates two distinct options, and that's all he has to prepare for.

So he really does a great job of simplifying what can be a complicated situation in the minds of a lot of people. And then we talk about how he manages screens behind that in the four on three. Again, because of that open space, players are able to cut across and shift and change the angle in the middle of the ice, forcing him to adjust how he manages the screen. We get into all of that in this week's ProReads brought to you by our friends at Vizual Edge. At ProReads, we're all about helping you see and read the game better through insights from National Hockey League Goaltenders.

At Vizual Edge, they're all about helping you see the puck better and look off the puck better, see the ice, scan the ice, be able to do all those things that allow you to read the game better. They've got an online tool combined with some cool glasses that kinda look like what you'd wear to a 3D movie, but they're a lot nicer. They have a series of different exercises. You take it what they call an edge test to get your base scores and then run you through a series of exercise to improve those scores. Tracking the puck into you, that's convergence.

You find out whether you're good or bad at it, and they will develop tools to help you train improvements that are necessary. Diversions, that's the ability to sort of zoom out and look at the zone, to read a play. How do you fare in that test? Well, good or bad, they're gonna find ways to improve you with the daily exercises that you can do. We heard from Cam Talbot in last week's ProReads about what a valuable tool he feels Vizual Edge has been to his game late in his career and how it's improved his game.

You can get that to Vizual Edge and now has monthly subscriptions. And for our InGoal premium members, look soon for the chance to get one month trial free. Make sure you check it out. Check out our ProReads at ingoalmag.com for a special discount code as well. If you're not already a subscriber to InGoal premium, make sure you grab one of those because it'll help you save money on Visual Edge as well.

There's so many advantages and opportunities that you can tap into. That doesn't mean that if you're a adult player that you need all this. But you can. But but you can, or you can use one of them.

I've started using them again, and and I'm seeing it's funny. I'm seeing the difference. So even us beer leaguers can get can benefit from it for sure.

Feature Interview - Filip Gustavsson

Sense Arena feature interview this week, discussing, the life and times of Filip Gustafson. The NHL Sensorina is a tool.

Sure is. And guys, as you know, I love that NHL Sense Arena runs competitions. And I love that when you're using it, you're training the same way as the pros. You're not just simulating what they do on the ice in virtual reality, although that's true, but you're actually using the same NHL Sense Arena platform that the pros use to train. By the time most of you hear this show, their most recent competition will have just wrapped up this stadium series competition where they even recreated the stadium and the blue jackets and red wing uniforms.

It was pretty cool, pretty fun. Now looking at the competition standings, things could still change before the final results because we're about a day out as we're recording, but, Owen Leonard take a bow sitting in first place amongst the goaltenders. And gentlemen in ninth, none other than Kasimir Kaskisuo. Two time InGoal Radio Podcast guest and pro goalie. How fun is that?

You are in the competition. The pros are in it with you. That's pretty sweet. And congratulations to the nine people who are ahead of Kasimir. The winner is getting a stick from our friends at CCM and I trust that Cas would pass his along to someone else if he made a late surge and made it to the top.

No pressure, Kasimir. There are always more competitions coming along along with all the amazing drills, training plans, neurocognitive exercises, and more. Sense Arena is an incredible tool for training away from the rink, whether you're in the NHL, minor hockey, or yes, just playing in your local rec league. And right now, they're offering 50% off an annual plan at sensearena.com. Head over there now and use the code I g m 50 to save.

Woody had a chance to, catch up with the Minnesota Wild. We discussed Marc Andre Fleury and his appearance in episode 300. Filip Gustafson gets a little advanced exposure.

Yeah. It's beautiful. The Wild were in town for a couple of days here in Vancouver. They were also in Seattle ahead of it, and the Canucks were off. So I went down to Seattle, spent a day with them there, caught back up with them here in Vancouver for a practice day and a game day, banked a ton of content for us here at InGoal, including this conversation with Filip Gustafson who, you know, has really come into his own with the Minnesota Wild over the past couple of seasons as having another great year this year.

We talked about the adjusted save percentages earlier in this episode and and where he sits in the top 10 and the kind of season that he's having again. We get into all of it, sorta his evolution as a goaltender, his roots in Swedish hockey. We hear a lot about the goaltending coaching over in Sweden. An old friend of InGoal Magazine comes up in this conversation, Linda Blomqvist, who we featured as one of the inventors of the RVH out of Sweden.

And That gave launched InGoal Magazine premium. It was the very first article.

Did not. I see. There you go. And so it all comes back together. That's who Philip goes back and works with every summer.

He talked about that work. He talked about his evolution with the different goalie coaches he's worked in North America. We just kinda got into everything. It's one of those we had fifteen minutes where we just crammed as much goalie knowledge as we could into the conversation, and he was a really good guest, really enjoyed it, and I think you will too. First of all, I wanted to ask you what it's been like the last couple of years playing alongside Mark and what you've learned from him.

Because he there's some things in his game that are a little different from what we see from a lot of guys these days.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, his he he was always like when I came to Minnesota, was at the end of the career. And, you know, sometimes it's it's a little a little sensitive between the goalies because both of us wants to play all the time and and prove ourself and and and win as as much as we can. You know, Flower's winning the Stanley Cups has been been winning, and and I almost felt like he he was more like, yes, I would say, some goal is kinda get mean to the other goal if he he gets to play. And Flowers more like happy and like tried to help and push and learn. And, you know, as you said, we play very differently. I'm more of a I would say more technical, a little more blocking if you if you compare it to him.

And and like when when he used plays, never played the reverse VH or or stuff like that previously. And, you know, practices always come usually they come and ask, like, how do you do in this situation? How how do you get this to work? And I also watch him because I don't wanna be as blocking. I wanna be reactive and and use my arms and and do saves. Maybe not as flash as him, but, you know, still making making those saves.

I I try and take a little bit, but not get away from from my game either.

Is there anything it's funny because when I talked to him in Seattle, he praised your post play and your post work and said he'd learned from you. Is there anything specific? Like, there are things he does, like, for example, the poke check

Yeah.

That we don't see much anymore. Like, do you guys talk about that at all? Or will might we see the odd one from you in the future?

No. I I usually usually I do the poke check sometimes when I'm frustrated or sometimes on on breakaways when I feel like when I don't feel like I I really have it.

A little aggression?

A little aggression. And and you know, it usually doesn't work for me. And it's something when I do it, it's usually when I do it, it's just not I'm not really there in my head and and as I said, getting frustrated. So I try not to do it. I don't think it's as effective, maybe.

It's funny because it it's not your game. Right? Like, I like, how have you learned that over the years? You've had different voices. I know Pierre grew in Ottawa really well.

Obviously, Freddie Chabot here. Your game, you talked about your game. You bringing new ideas to it without abandoning your foundation. Mhmm. How how have you sort of found that balance as you've moved from place to place and settled in here?

Well, I always go back to Sweden every summer. And I when I when I played my junior years and up to the pro team in in Sweden there, I had this goalie coach. And and, you know, every summer I go back and I I work with her all summer long.

Linda?

Yeah. Linda. Lundqvist. Yeah. Linda Lundqvist.

And we always go back and work with her. We used to have Anders Nilsson was there working with her too. You know, even though we we don't talk every after every game or anything like that now, she she still watches all the games. And then, you know, I I send her a text and like, hey, what do you see in my game? Like, how's my foundation?

And then I've like I tried to to do all the technique wise we've learned from from the game back home there and then adapting with a little more reactive and that type of play style because their style is way more, even more blocking because you can have a little more bigger shoulder pads in Europe and all that stuff. It works a little better. But I just try and keep in contact with her and she usually reminds me when when I start to to do stupid stuff or or start getting back Get away from your foundation. Exactly.

What so if I could ask you, because a lot of guys will have like like Mark talked to me about having like for him it's hands, like, different things that are triggers to their foundation. If you were to have to write down what your foundation is or when you talk to Linda, what you try and get back to, how would you describe it?

Well, right now it's mostly like, it's easy to get too passive when when you have your hands more next to your side instead of having them in front of you a little bit. And usually when you have them in front of you and have them a little loose, you're usually usually set and ready. So I I try to try to narrow the stance a little bit to to be able to move easier on the on the feet and and get better pushes because the game is so quick. And having those hands in front there, it's puts you a little bit on your toes to to get you ready.

I remember, I think it was Pekka Rinne describing it as almost like a steering wheel, your hands out in front of you like everything moves as one piece out in front of you.

Yeah, yeah. And we I had this goalie coach when I was in Belleville with, we had like just a basketball between our between our gloves and blocker, and we dropped the basketball and we catch the puck and we catch the basketball just to have the chance in front there and just work on it to make it as natural as possible because sometimes it's just very easy and comfortable. You just have it next to you and and and just have that super blocking style.

You can kinda lose your hands when they get behind you a

little bit. Yeah. And then you have those very good players that just see it right away and they put the puck top top corner.

I I love the basketball one. I haven't heard that before. We saw a guy I saw the Leafs recently. They had the medicine ball out in front to move. Is that who do you remember who that was?

I'm trying to Yeah.

Corey Cooper, and we had those drills. So

That's funny because Corey Cooper learned to juggle from InGoal Magazine. He he actually like, we had a thing when teach you how to juggle in fifteen minutes, and he did it, and he sent me the video. So what great guy. Some of the other influences, you know, obviously, you're just back from the four nations. Mhmm.

Goal tending is such a a a big piece of what happens in Sweden. Like, when did you have your first goalie coach?

My first real goalie coach was probably probably around, I would say 13, 14 maybe. Like my you always had like you always had the parents coming out and shoot on you and a little bit like that and went to a few like hockey schools. But when I was 12, I moved into Scholifto or to that team, the main team, all the way up to the ECHL team. We started having a goalie court from, I think like U14 maybe or U I would say u fourteen, maybe u 13 like once a week or something.

Do you feel like that's a like, there's so much effort put into it. Do you feel like that's a big part of why we see so many great Swedish goalies these days?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think so. Like, you know, even even in the junior program, like, that's one of the reasons I moved teams since we went to to to get to Linda because she was a full time employee there with the with the under with with Lily on the 18 and 20 team, and Scholefchio only had Chris or Holm, a great goalie coach that's from the s h so that's on the SHL team, but he's also a video coach on that team. So he didn't have as much time to to go down and and be with the 18 and 20 team.

And I told them that, I was like, Lula, they have this full time, they produce a lot of goalies and you just wanna do it for me and get what's gonna work best for me. Are you gonna get a person that's gonna be a goalie coach full time with the junior team? And at that moment they didn't didn't wanna put the money there or didn't wanna do that. So they got angry with me because I moved, but I did for me and it worked out. And now we're now we're now we're better friends again.

Transition over here. You talked about narrowing your stance. Mhmm. The game's gotten so dynamic East West. Is that sort of an answer from a goalie as we try and solve this new offense?

Is that one of the solutions for you at least that that that makes sense?

Yeah. And and previously years I've been even more aggressive. Like, if they come in on a three on two or two on one, I've been way outside my crease to almost like, I don't know, three, four feet outside and like coming back with speed. And and it's so hard to find the timing and and the depth perspective to be ready to push over if they make the pass instead of just being top threes and just have a little bit of momentum backwards to try to work a little bit with that this year to just play a little deeper there on those entries to to be able to to go east west.

It's funny when I've heard that a little bit, like, guys sort of used to be get out at the red line. Now it's like sort of sitting three quarter step waiting almost till it's over the blue line before you make that first push.

Yeah. Yeah. No. That's that's exactly what we we try and do. Because if you can see it from last year, we I was way more aggressive on those ones.

And this year, we we have said we hold it back, been working on it, and we've seen more success in in that type of style.

I was gonna say a little less reliant on rhythm and timing too, I would imagine. Like like you said, the more you're moving, the more you gotta kinda get it right.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's it's it's way easier and and you're more set when you're not moving too. So it's just way easier to to rotate and push.

You big gear guy?

A little bit.

Yeah. What do you like about the Bauer stuff? It's funny because I was watching you guys in Seattle and just watching the puck rocket off yours in comparison. There is quite a difference on the rebound.

Yeah. Right now, they're I got a fresh new pair back home, so I'm gonna switch after tomorrow's game. But, yeah, the pads and the blocker, especially the blocker, they just they just pop off. You can like, even if you see when Flurry has new gear, you can see they you can hear it on the sound how much harder it is on the blocker and pop off. And and like since they start with this what do call it?

They start with the Odin and then the One X or I don't know what they're they're really calling this.

Originally originally Odin with the cortex skin and everything. Yep.

But, like, they're so light, but still so so hard and poppy. And and then they did the one one piece knee, so it's all connected. So the rotation, if you're falling or something, the pad is still stuck flat on the on the ice area because you can see a lot of other pads that kind of go up in the middle in front of your knees if you sit in the butterfly and even back in the foot, they pop up a little bit.

I was gonna say quite the contrast for you. You're not going to leather straps anytime soon.

No. No. I'm never going back. I'm gonna keep the one under my boot, but that's it.

What are some of the other adjustments you've had to make over the last couple of years? Like, even from Ottawa to here or even from Sweden to North America, like, if you look back at that path, what are some of the biggest adjustments as the games change and your games change? It's a big question. Sorry.

It's a big question. Yeah. I I would say in Europe, you usually had, like, 20 shots was like a normal game, 20 or less shots. You never had as many shots. And and then you come over here, you can have 35, 40 shots and you just like, every time they get into the zone, it's a scoring chance almost.

Like, they have a they have a chance to to shoot and and usually do. They feel like some teams have started to shoot less now because they just wanna have quality shots. And then you have like Carolina sometimes they have feels like they have a three second rule that they need to shoot if they have the puck on the stick for more than three seconds. So a lot like that because in Europe you have the bigger eyes and if the puck was in the corner you can almost stand on your flat legs or straight legs there and you can just relax and breathe and it feels so much slower so you can just take your time and just you push over. You have lots of time waiting for a shot.

And here it's like, you're just pushing. It's almost like you have to drop in the butterfly right away because you're you're not gonna get down otherwise in time. And I think just the speed and being able to be ready all the time. And then we've been working a lot on like screens and tips since it's so it's more narrow, more people just natural comes in front of you. And then you have all these guys standing out after practice for twenty minutes, practicing and just tipping the pucks.

They're they're so good at tipping the puck now at that. You just have to find it through the screen and and try and be as big as possible for those tips coming in.

It's funny because we've talked about depth and yet the old rule on screens and tips was to get as close to the tip as possible. Yep. Which is sounds great, but if it hits something Yep. The scrambles, you gotta recover all that space. Right?

It gets a real tough balance.

Yeah. It's it's just like you kinda have to because sometimes when they tip it, it goes so quick, the puck doesn't loosen the speed so you you're not gonna have the time to react anyways. You just have to have that depth to be as big as possible. But then, as you said, it just hits you and then you have a rebound and you probably have three guys around you and you just have to find a way not to chase it too much and just just kinda have to back off again and and try and block it.

Is that something adjusting to the chaos? That's something you gotten better at? Because that's one a lot of guys talk about that. Like, sort of how do I manage the chaos? A lot of guys, when they first come over, they move too much.

Now just sit back and make sure you got the ice sealed.

Yeah. Because it feels like when it's a scramble, players just try and get a hit on it. And usually usually it's on the ice if they just try and hit the puck just a little bit. So, yeah, I I think practicing on staying calm there and and let the puck just come to you when it's a scramble and and chaos a little bit.

When you lose it in those scrambles, any tips for fun like, when you can't see the puck, what do you look for to try and figure out where it is? Some guy I've had some guys say audio too. They listen for things.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Like, you try and hear where the puck is. You if you if you try and find it through the screen first and you you see the puck is shot, but you can never find it afterwards, you usually, you kind of know when it's gonna hit the boards or hit the glass or or iron or anything.

So you kinda know when the sound cue should be there. And otherwise, you I kinda have to look at the players to see what their reaction is. Because usually, the people in front of you can see can see the puck, and then you can like read it off them where what's happened

with the puck or where it's You can't see the puck, but you can see what they're looking for. Last one, who's your guy growing up?

My idol? Yeah. Well, my dad was a defenseman playing up, so I always went and watched his game and and goalie wise, you know, in the when we're out playing street hockey at school, I always wanted to be Frederik Norrena, a Finnish goalie.

I know Fred I know Frederik Norrena. And he he runs gold in the net schools there or used to.

Yeah. Maybe. He he used to play in Lindschapping back then in in Sweden, and everyone wanted to be Henrik Lundqvist there on the on the schoolyard, and it was taken. So I was like, I'm Frederik Norrena. I because I I remember I watched him play there in the SHL, and he was great.

Later on, I I stopped watching this because he's a little older school, I would say. And and I really loved how Braden Holtby played, Varlamov, Carey Price.

Not a bad list. Philip, really appreciate it. This really enjoyed it. A lot of time I took for me today, but it's sincerely appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Outro

I've never met him.

He is a little he can come across as a little quiet, but as you heard there, once you get him talking about like, he was I I've only talked to him once before, and it was sort of more in a pregame, you know, morning skate, formal interview, postgame type environment. I've never had a chance to really sit down with him like that. And so I didn't know what to expect quite honestly, but really enjoyed the conversation. And and like I said, hopefully, audience did as well. There were some really good nuggets in there.

He always has good setups too.

He does. A man of style. Yeah. And we talked about the gear too and the like, he likes the way the Bauer stuff performs, but he's still in the true glove, which is interesting. So, yeah, we got into all of that.

It's it's funny how the glove like, people just find their perfect glove wrapper, and and they won't won't switch from it.

There can't be a piece we're more connected to.

Yeah. It it it's it's just interesting how you can have the same glove and one person loves it and the other person's like,

oh ya that too Yeah. Yeah. Just watch the online comments.

So the funny thing is earlier in the season, I did a piece on that for nhl.com, just like mismatched mismatched equipment. And Gustafson was one of the guys, and what he said was he actually had a Bauer glove ready to go, I think, last season. Loved the way it felt, got off to a slow start, and because of the slow start, he switched back and hasn't looked back. So he loved the way the Bauer glove felt, but things didn't go well at the beginning, so it was gone.

And I've told you guys the story about Adin Hill and wearing the the Brian's glove and he he was testing out the pads and they just had the blocker dropper there at a summer skate, so he put on the glove and went, woah. This is the best glove I've ever worn and and stuck to it. Basically switched everything because he loved the glove so much. So it's just it's it's there.

It's less of an important piece for me, Daren, because I can't catch a puck. I might as well have two blockers. So

oh, you know what? The XF that that I'm wearing right now, the puck does stay in it much better, and and the break in has been has been awesome.

Good to hear because that was a pro palm for you.

Yeah. I'm enjoying that. Certainly enjoying that, and I feel better, but it's the ones that I miss entirely that frustrate me. Like, zip. Yeah.

Yeah. Given the level of shooter you're facing, I think that's understandable.

What I what I'm used to doing now is they go off they hit the post, and then I just wait to hear if a bounce I hear a bounce or not. And I'm like, please bounce. Please bounce. Meaning that it that it went up and out instead of down and into the net. This has been fun.

I look forward to the Marc-Andre Fleury conversation that

you guys catch up. Yeah. It's a solid half hour with one of the all time greats. And like I said, we've got a big milestone coming up, folks. So we're not holding out on you.

We're just saving it for the big day.

For David Hutchison, Kevin Woodley, thank you for listening. Cam was great today. That chesty tuck or untuck gear segment is available on the YouTube channel. Check that out because just a just a visual ad may be able to help you understand exactly what he was trying to get across. Good stuff.

Well, we'll talk to you next week. Good goaltending from all of us at InGoal Radio Podcast.