Shane Clifford: What a Goalie Coach Learned From Fleury, Irbe and Wolf (Ep. 373)

Intro

Presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. This is InGoal Radio Podcast. We have a long list of things to get to today in our Gear Segment. We're going to talk about the Twig, Vizual Edge ProReads, Devin Cooley is gonna stop by. Parent segment is here with David Hutchison brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U the app and NHL Sense Arena feature interview.

It's Shane Clifford. You're gonna have fun getting to know Shane who is a, basically, a lifer in, in the goaltending world and goaltending instruction. Good to hang out with David Hutchison and Kevin Woodley today. Woody, how's your body feeling? You're back on the ice this weekend.

I was. It only took me a month to get back on the ice. I think my teammates at the Canucks Autism Network, charity event where I decided to make them my return would have been happier if I maybe stayed off the ice. It was a little bit of a rough start there in the first game, but, speaking of the Hockey Shop Source for Sports, I got a pair of, like, Summer Slides, I think they call them, because they're one of the sponsors of the event. They're like, just basically flip flops, but they're just... They're summer skates. That's what they are. They're like flip flops.

So that was a gift from the Hockey Shop Source for Sports. We talk a lot about what they do for goaltenders and what they can do for you as a goaltender. Best selection, best prices, and finding you gear that fits your game, but they're also heavily involved in the community, including their support of the Canucks Autism Network, which is a really great cause here in Vancouver. And so I was happy to suit up and be a part of it, and it was not lost on me that the Hockey Shop has been a big part of it for all these years as well. So shout out to them, and, shout out to me for surviving.

I made it through. I flashed the leather on Kirk McLean. Only guy flashed the leather on happened to be an ex goalie, but I flashed the leather on Kirk McLean. Blind squirrels finding nuts, boys, every once in a while.

Did you get a stick, tap, maybe a pad tap from him?

Little... He... I got I got some love from him. He he he appreciated... There was a little flare to it.

I think he appreciated the flare with which I, turned that save in. Now let's be honest with you. He may have just been shocked that I actually made a save, but I made a save.

I was gonna say falling on your ass after a glove save is not a windmill. It's not, like, Woody. It's not style.

No. There were a few falling down moments for sure, but, that one I managed to actually look like I knew what I was doing. Doesn't happen often, Hutch. Trust me.

I wish I was there. You looked like Henrik Lundqvist. Your wife sent me a photo of you manning the net on the goal line, just trying to survive. Good for

you. That happens in those tournaments, doesn't it, where you have to play way back?

I've I was sitting... First of all, that game that she took the photo was our first game. The McLean save was our second game on the second day. I skipped the second game on the same day because my knee isn't up for that, but went back for the second day and played. That one was a team full of ringers and, including...

Like, not only did they have their NHL player that they drafted because you... Each team drafts a a celebrity NHL player, but they had two NHLs including a former first rounder on their actual roster. I don't think they realized it was a funzy charity tournament, and they loaded her up for bear. I was dying, and my only way of surviving was to basically be on the goal line because it was tic tac toe all night. I did my best Henrik Lundqvist minus the saves part.

Your hair is not as good either.

No. Neither was my suit coming into the game. I'll tell

you that much. It's hard to compete with that. I've actually tried that with Sense Arena.

Just sit back.

Stand on the goal line, and it's amazing how many pucks you can pick off when you just stand on the goal line. I was just be... I mean, you talk about ringers coming in for a charity tournament. I was just trying to set the record on every drill I possibly could in Sense Arena, and I found that standing on the goal line where you need minimal movement made all the difference in the world. And I got number one on all kinds of different drills.

Long time ago, folks, you probably won't find my name there again, but, it's not a bad strategy, and it's actually kind of fun to try things out there.

Not quite to the degree of the picture my wife sent you, but I'm definitely playing way back in my net. Maybe it's because... Especially with this knee, there's not a ton of mobility left in this old body, but, I have found that it's just made a huge difference just sort of half ice at most. Pick your spots on when to come out if guys have open looks. I took ice on Kirk.

I took ice on Kirk, But... Because, hey. I made one save all weekend, Daren. I gotta celebrate it. Alright?

You just let me hit... Let me have this. Okay? Let me have this. But absolutely, like, playing way deeper all the time.

I couldn't do that if I was Daren Millard out there with NHL because they just ding ding ding ding ding all around you as you're sitting back on your goal line. But for for the level I'm playing, I'd have helped.

Yeah. Sometimes it does.

Has questions for Kevin Woodley, just hit up, selfdeprecating.com. Kevin@selfdeprecating.com.

People are gonna go there.

Yeah. They will. You ever you ever had that... You ever had one where, like, a guy misses a shot and it's trickling five hole or or or even if he doesn't miss a shot where it's going five hole, and you try and kick your heels together to sort of get... Stop it from going...

You you know it's going in, you try and, like, quickly squeeze the heels together.

All squeeze at the back.

Yeah. Yeah. I kicked my heels together so hard that I took the back of my left skate, the pointy part of the blade, drove it through a pair of of cut proof socks, through my undergarments, and a good quarter of an inch into my leg. So not only was I out of practice, the one knee was handling it okay, there's literally blood running down my leg on the other side. Like, that's how bad it was.

One opposite leg?

Yeah. Like, I kicked my left heel into my right leg into the sort of the side of the leg and, like, left left a pretty good mark. It was a little embarrassing.

Now you're balanced. We've got the Gear Segment coming up brought to you by the Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, the hockeyshop.com. But first, goalie news out of the gate. And let's start with Connor Hellebuck.

Well, first off, let's just mention goalienews.com. Yeah. New segment over at ingoalmag.com. Or if you'd like to go straight to the goalie news of the day, just hit up goalienews.com. We started adding sort of all the news of the day or the previous day, interesting takes on different goaltenders around the NHL, the PWHL, minor leagues, NCAA , junior.

If you're the kind of person that just hops on social and checks out what's new in the goalie world, well, we've done the roundup for you every day, every morning, and, we'd love to... You to go and, and and check it out very quickly becoming, one of the most popular parts of ingoalmag.com. So goalienews.com. Hit it up. You'll check out all the the most recent news, and and, we're probably gonna knock around a few of the highlights of what popped up this week.

Is is there a link at ingoalmag.com?

Just on the front of the site. The the the news for the week is right on the front of the site. You can click on any particular day, see what was new, but, the quickest way is goalienews.com.

I do like the way you've set it up on the on the site. Like, you literally... Daren, when you're on the main page, you can see, like, the different days, you can scroll through them and then click them and select them before you go over to goalienews.com. It's really it's really well done that Hutchison fella built a good website.

Well, it's it's it's been really fun because you call up all the different things that are important for the day. And, yeah, sure, you're gonna find a bunch of different things as you go around yourself on social, but they always sort of send me down rabbit holes. And I learn new things about the game, and I learn interesting things because we'll find out that, this week, there was one where, we had a penalty shot on Arturs Silovs, and that made me look up a previous penalty shot by him, which got me into something interesting about the rules of hockey. And, yeah, I hand... I tend to go down these rabbit holes, and I add them in to make it kind of interesting, and it's, it's been a fun experience.

Learning things as you go. Might describe what's happening with the Connor Hellebuyck situation because all along, we thought it was Connor Hellebuyck's decision not to be in Winnipeg. But there was a a twist in this situation way back at the start of the season, and now the jets have decision to make Woody.

I don't fully know this. I just credit the reporting. I think most of it's been Elliotte Friedman. But to your point, when he no showed camp, they suspended him. But according to the reporting, he wanted to come back around the start of the season, and that's when they decided that they could suspend him further for no showing camp.

So, yeah, he's been suspended, and it expires, what, on Friday, October 23, which, man, just given the awkwardness of all this, you kinda hope they can come. Maybe maybe it becomes an artificial deadline of sorts to just avoid what would be, I would imagine, an uncomfortable situation for all those involved. Not to mention, you know, like, this is the thing. Like, as this ticks off, like, you don't just don't... Jeremy Swayman two years ago misses camp over over a contract.

Look at how good he's been ever since, including this year. He's having a hell of a year again this year. Vezina finalist last year. Like, the only blip on his sort of career is when he missed camp. Like, missing camp as a goalie is really tough to do.

You don't just come back and... It's like hopping on a moving train. Right? Like, we are now... Like, the season started in September.

We're... By the time we get to Friday, we're we're almost a full month into the season. Connor Hellebuyck's one of the best in the world, but I don't know that you snap your fingers and just jump onto that moving train as easily as some might think. And so, you know, I I just don't know where this goes, whether it's a trade or whether he actually does come back with them. It's just not...

It's just kinda ugly, I guess.

It is. But but I had the conversation with somebody this week, and I and I mentioned, if if you really wanna put pressure on the situation, the only viable alternative is to go back and play for Winnipeg and make yourself available. And they either, well, have to welcome you back, make room for you, or make a decision to, have you around in some alternate parallel existence. And and that's the way that that you you press the press the, urgency button.

You're absolutely right that from his perspective, I think that's the best way to go. But if there are a lot of upset people around all of this, I mean, Winnipeg doesn't have to have him around. No. All this really means is they gotta start cutting them a paycheck. They can say, stay home.

So question.

I'm not sure that they can, without providing him ICE training, facilities, except But it doesn't he's willing to be be there.

But it doesn't have to be with the team. Right. Though that ICE, that training, that facility is there.

They could also delay this whole process by sending him to the American League on a conditioning stent.

No. Conditioning stints have to be accepted.

Mhmm. Do they?

Yeah. I do. Yeah. You have the right to refuse a conditioning stent. They can't just unilaterally do That's that's your that's your choice. And we know guys over the years who have who have turned it down. My question becomes, if they go alternate universe, Daren, where they just park them somewhere, let them have his ice, let them have his reps, but not with the team, he doesn't play a game, Does the December 1 deadline to be eligible for the season, does that... Does he qualify for that?

Like, does he check that box? So, like, if you do eventually trade him

first is for unsigned players.

Okay. So that's that's kinda not not even a real on the roster if he comes He's not even... Okay. There you go. So there...

That solves that. I... And this is the thing. Right? Like I said, like, my first response when you asked me was, you know, what to say.

I I don't know. Credit the reporting, the guys like Elliotte Friedman who dig into this stuff. Because I

I think this whole... That whole thing was remarkable. Unknown.

Given the stakes, that's remarkable. And it probably shows you how incentivized both sides were to try and keep the rhetoric dialed down.

Mhmm. Because the player side cranked that up in the summer when they went public. Yeah. I'm sure there was a couple of, conversations, between team and representative along the way. Just if we're gonna get this done, it...

It's gotta be kept low key. And and both sides did a really nice job on that. Other stuff, Dylan Garand did a pretty good job without Igor Shesterkin.

Yeah. Had one blip where he got pulled after four early on, but I love the bounce back. Loses... I was hoping for, I jinxed that. I apologize to Dylan Garand.

Sent a note on the group text that we had a Dylan Garand, Jet Greaves, nothing nothing game headed to a shootout.

Yeah. Hutch kinda baited you into that, though. Hutch baited you in that. They No. Didn't baited...

No. No. He started it, but blame Hutch because I'm the one that used the s word in the group chat.

Yeah. So it is Hutch's fault. But, anyways, that's a hell of a game. Nothing word. And listen, those guys, like like, I don't think a lot of people realize.

Like, it was a big game for both of them. Big game for Jet Greaves gets the shutout win. Dylan gets the OTL, had a shutout going to... Like, look, they're both gonna get shutouts if it goes to a shootout in a nothing nothing tie, and I'm not sure people realize the ties between the two. Both guys that, are good friends with Devon Levi, who...

Shout out to him for an incredible start with the Edmonton Oilers here after a tough first game. Ever since then, he's been good. They both go and skate with... And I don't know together. I think it's probably at separate times, but they both go in the summers to skate with Devon Levi and our old friend Marco Romando in Montreal.

So both Dylan Garand has spent time there, and, obviously, we've we've met him there. Jet Greaves has spent time there. So those two, I would imagine that mutual relationship with both Marco and Devin means there's probably a relationship between those two, and there they are locked in a nothing nothing game. So... And an important bounce back for Dylan after his first...

You know, honestly, his first semblance of a rough outing his entire time in the NHL going back to last year. Like, he didn't have a lot of tough outings.

To to be fair, the team had a very rough outing there too. What's that? To be fair, the team had a very rough outing too.

Wasn't all on him. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out JT Miller for playing beer league level defense in that one.

And connected to Dylan Garand, James Reimer joins the New York Rangers organization.

Yeah. It sounds like a short term PTO. I'm kinda curious on this one. I genuinely don't know what the plans there are. It sounds like Joonas Korpisalo has got another three weeks to recover from his injury.

They don't have a lot of experience depth in the organization at, frankly, any level. Like, there's just not a ton of experience. Now our old friend, Callum Tung, who we had on the podcast this summer, a local boy here in the Vancouver area, I mean, he's off to a pretty darn good start this year in the American Hockey League. You know, just a third year pro. It's only five games, but he's rocking a nine thirty three right now.

So he's holding up his end of the bargain, but there's not a lot of experience beyond that. So whether Reimer's there to be in the American League or a chance to move up and play with Garand and Spencer Martin, who's right now backing up, Dylan Garand in the in in the NHL, maybe he would come back down to work with Callum. I'm not sure how they see this. Obviously, Shesterkin's not coming back, but eventually, Korpisalo is. So I I...

I'm curious how this fits for James. It's an opportunity to get some games and, you know, see how see how he's feeling, be ready for opportunities, whether it's there or elsewhere. But, you know, just with his family situation, I I I kinda can't see him signing on for for a year in the American League. So I'm I'm curious to see where this goes. I should say too, we forgot to mention this, but Spencer Martin being the backup in New York with Dylan having the one rough outing and getting pulled, we saw the debut of Warrior Alpha blocker and glove on the hands of Spencer Martin in the National Hockey League.

So Oh, that's cool. Shout out... Yeah. Shout out to the goal net for being the first one, I think, that noticed that. I didn't.

Wasn't watching the game at the time. And, yeah, guy... I owe Spencer a note. I gotta send him

a note and find out what he loves about the blocker and glove. Did they have logos blacked out on those or whited out on those or whatever? Interesting.

Said had Warrior. So I don't know if Warrior's paid the... And we have to send an... A note to our friend Kirk, see if they've paid the rights piece for this year. We've talked about that that Alpha surge being a pad that is NHL worthy, and it may not have been the pads, but the gloves certainly that they've made an appearance.

I know... I can know Kasimir Kaskisuo is wearing them in the ECHL right now, really nice looking set of tan retro ones. But, yeah, I I think I'm digressing as shocker to all listeners. Never. But, I think we're gonna see...

I... We're gonna think we're gonna see Warrior in the NHL. We already have, but we're... I think we're gonna see more of it in the next couple of years.

Well, I'll digress for you because we mentioned earlier that, over at goalienews.com, I go through some different rabbit holes. Recently, we put up that Cam Talbot had, set an NHL record playing for nine franchises. James Reimer has played for eight NHL teams. If he does make it up with, the New York Rangers, he will tie that record.

That's interesting.

Mhmm. It's also interesting that both of them signed late. Talbot Yes. And... Talbot signs late.

Reimer's obviously signing after the season starts. But in a year where a handful of teams rather than signing them went the waiver wire route. Right? Like, there... There's a handful of teams that were like, hey.

I I am gonna I'm gonna plug my hole with something off the waiver wire. Think of Winnipeg, obviously, with Clay Stevenson, Vancouver with Leevi Meriläinen in rather than going that route. And interestingly enough, the Rangers, could you imagine if Garand had gotten claimed off waivers? They got lucky.

I think that's waivers working the way it was designed, and I think it's fantastic because you got some great young goaltenders getting an opportunity with an NHL team where they could have been buried if waivers didn't exist.

Yep. No. That's that's what they're designed to do.

Do you remember recallable waivers?

No. Help me out here. Tell us more.

You... When you were sent down, you went through waivers. Anybody could pick you up.

Oh, yeah. And when you called

up, you had to pass through waivers, and somebody could pick you up. And so teams would... If somebody cleared going down, would get stuck because teams didn't wanna take a chance in bringing them back up.

Yeah. That was... That would be the opposite of working as it was designed.

Mhmm. And and the NHL PA worked their way through that, and and it and it changed things for players. It really opened things up. Michael DiPietro, congratulations, Mike. He's one of the great guys in our goaltending world.

One of my favorites for sure. And I think Hutch has a good stat here on on set set a record. So let's It should

be rabbitholes.com.

Yeah. We should. Hutch goes down rabbit holes better than most rabbits. He... I feel good.

Right? Like, just feel good. You know how hard he's worked. Got buried here. A lot of it's circumstantial.

Got thrown into some really brutal situations that he wasn't ready for in the end

the in 2017. Right?

Yep. Then was left to rot on the bench, and and during the pandemic on the taxi squad, traded to Boston. We've had the story where he came on the podcast and told us about just, like, how tough an experience that was. He was stuck in Vancouver, eventually tried to drive home, almost died in a snowstorm trying to drive back home while he was waiting to be assigned to Boston, waiting for visa stuff. I'm not nest...

You know, like, when that deal went down, my understanding was it would... You know, he was included as mostly a contract situation as opposed to the Bruins, like, actively really wanting him. And so he ends up sort of an afterthought for a little while, goes down to the ECHL, and just keeps grinding and working his way. And owned

it in the ECHL.

Absolutely. And then and then in American League, two time two time AHL goalie of the year, American League MVP. I remember Brandon Bussi, right, telling us last year that Michael DiPietro was absolutely ready for the National Hockey League last year. He's like, Garand. Never should have cleared waivers last year.

Like, was ready for the show, and he's showing it right now. So he gets that first win. His first start was a loss against Minnesota, but the numbers I had from Clear Sight was definitely not on him. He was really good in that game. His overall numbers look really good.

Just... You're just happy for one of the games. Not just a nice nice guy. Like, he is an incredibly nice guy.

Gets his first win ten years after being drafted.

He loves it. Like, he just... He's passionate about everything about the game. A lot... I'd...

So hap... So happy for him. Hutch, you had that stat?

Yeah. The rabbit hole is that he now holds the record as the longest time between his NHL debut and his first NHL win, little over seven years, two thousand eight hundred and four days. I don't have it here, but I put it in the Goalie News. I'd actually worked out that number. And then as I was about to post it, I noticed on, on x that somebody had already done that.

So I gave them credit. If you check out Goalie News, I did credit that person even though I'd worked it out independently. And, yeah. So cool that it's a record then went a little further down the rabbit hole. And number two, the guy who used to have the record is, Frederic Chabot, who is the goalie coach for the Minnesota Wild right now.

So that's kind of fun. And the one that shocked me, Daren, number five on the list, Olaf Kolzig. And, I mean, he was a bit of a name coming out of the Western Hockey League. Scored a goal in the Western Hockey League. He was a a well regarded prospect at

least find out. To the NHL.

But took a while. Baltimore. Took a while.

But obviously, he got engaged. Right? Because that... That's the thing. Like, in order to qualify for this, you have to get in early and then have a long gap between establishing yourself.

And so then it sent me down another rabbit hole I had to ask. Who was the oldest goaltender in the National Hockey League to make his debut and win?

Oh, I know the answer to this.

Johnny Bower?

Wanna drop a Zamboni. Daren, he's one of you.

Oh, David Ayers.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. So regular season

He he didn't get the win, though.

He did. Didn't

he? Yes. He did. He did?

He did get the win. Yeah. I looked it up. Had it checked out. He got the win.

NHL NHL stats credit him with the win. I know that surprised me as well. That's regular season playoffs. How old was he? 40.

42. 42 in a hundred and ninety four days.

I can't even remember 42.

Yeah. Me neither. But the actual record is in the playoffs. Playoffs. Lester Patrick.

Oh, Lester Patrick. Lester Patrick, New York Rangers was the head coach of the team and inserted himself to play goal at age 44 in the second game of the Stanley Cup final. Oh. I don't know more of that story, but it's pretty intriguing.

Well, if I win a really big, like, Powerball style lottery, I'm buying a team so I can put myself in.

A 100%. A 100%. People say that all the time. They they get upset because junior hockey people buy junior hockey teams and tell the coach, you gotta play my kid. Man, if I old...

Owned an NHL team, I'd certainly put my kid in there, and I might even put myself

in be on the Stanley Cup if we won.

I was Oh, yes. Why would you ever think

that There's precedent there. There.

Oh, is there?

Dustin Wolf with a fashion statement.

Oh, isn't that cute? Setup is so nice. The old Heaton.

The old Heaton tagged for CCM. Heads up. Congratulations to CCM for helping them put that together. I have to say to everybody, I sent a note around the group chat here because I was upset. I saw the the Kiprusoff mask, and I found out that it wasn't painted by the original artist, and I immediately assumed that it was done sort of without permission.

But it turns out, doing a little bit of rabbit hole work on the goalie news, found out that credit had been... I... So they had checked with the original artist. The only thing was the published article just said, got approval from the original artist and Kiprusoff. So we named the original artist, Todd Miska, one of the first people we worked with here at ingoalmag.com Oh, gee.

Way back when we used to publish masks. I love his work. I loved his style because you could tell it was a Mischa mask. Around the whole outside of the mask was just a white strip.

Yes.

And are also around the inside around the face. I don't think I ever asked him about this. I think it was probably, you know, that the paint job's gonna get chipped a little bit. So if the white part is white, you won't even notice. Whatever it is, it's very distinctive.

It's beautiful. And they did check with him and get approval before they painted, a replica of his mask for Dustin Wolf, and it looks sweet.

Yeah. With TMK Customs did it, I think, in Victoria that did did the paint job, and I

Tk Customs.

Yeah. I am so glad that they checked with with Miska. And, of course, Miska's son, Hunter Miska, who we've had on the podcast before, professional goaltender who's done a little bit of painting on his own. So, the the goalie news rabbit hole continues.

Rabbithole.com.

When does it turn into whack a mole? It's at a

rabbit hole. Some mornings, let me tell you. Tells you

Every time I poke my head up, Daren, that's how it'd feel when it turns into whack a mole. Hutch is just waiting there with an anvil.

Wrapping up with an NHL goalie battle for the ages.

Yeah. Look. I I don't know enough about the NCAA, so I apologize if I miss things and and if I grab things without the wrong context. But, man, it stood out to me when I saw that on Friday, a freshman goaltender for Saint Anselm, Calissa Bayne, had made 76 saves. That's the kind of thing that goalie parents rack up, and they insist in the stands.

My Johnny had a great game. They had 75 saves.

That's what my wife was that was what my wife was saying after my first game at the

charity turned But this was legit. Calissa's a freshman, makes 76 saves, lost three to two. I mean, normally, when little Johnny makes 76 saves, he's given up 10. Unreal. Bank it.

Put it in the goalie news. Come back the next day, and you find out that the Saint Anselm goaltender has made 76 saves on Saturday. Well, hang on. Did did I did I check that wrong? Did I get the same story two days in a row?

No. Sophomore Emma Brewer comes in the next day and stops 76 shots for them again. Six two loss. Hey. Six goals on 76 shots.

You're still around nine twenty or something. And I think anybody out there in the goaltending note... World knows that if you give up 76, there's more than one or two grade a's mixed in there. So congrats to them for an incredible weekend. Lots of great performances.

Had another goaltender in the goalie news who'd made a 120 some odd saves over the weekend. Yeah. It's fun to to learn about all

these weekenders at all different levels. Not in one game.

Two games. Yeah. But but these two made a 100 and... What is it? 152 saves between the two of them in two games.

Like, incredible.

You didn't even have to ask Claude. I got that one fifty two just like that.

That's At a boy, Woody.

Three years as a math major coming in handy there, guys. I can add some

of Woody's super intelligent. Why do

we exclude Claude from the the podcast? Claude has got a lot to say. Who mutes his mic?

We can give we can give Claude a voice and bring him in here one time.

I wonder what voice he would have. He ain't taking mine. They keep telling me I got a I got a face for radio and a voice for print.

I think Claude should have the voice that that Hutch used for the parents who talk about all the saves that their their kids are making. Give me that voice again?

Oh, I don't know.

Little Johnny. Little Johnny.

Mate... Yeah. Honestly, you meet so many parents who track shots on goal, and it's pretty unusual, honestly, parents, if your goalie really makes 75 saves in a game. Hey. The other thing we do over the goalie news is we add this weekend goalie history every day, which is kind of fun.

And, with respect... More rabbit holes here With respect to the the great start for the for the Edmonton Oilers, talking about rabbit holes here. Our good friend Devon Levi had a great start, won his first five games or something like that for the Oilers, tied a record with a couple of other, former Oilers, some great names, really impressive stuff. Rabbit Hole, here I go. Grant Fuhr lost his first game as an Edmonton Oiler, and then it took three months before he lost again.

Pretty good bounce back.

Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah. Not a bad bounce back. Yeah.

And that's when he wore the the fiberglass mask too back in the early part of his career.

Oh. He didn't he?

And the the Levi mask is awesome.

I love that tribute. I do need to ask him about it. Like... Because he's got the... He's he's got the middle bar on his, Pro's Choice True mask painted orange.

Very beautiful. Everything... And it looks fantastic, but, like, Devin's such a detail kid. Right? Like, I wondered if he thought about...

I wonder if it's painted white on the inside, first of all. Like, I wonder if that's at all distracting to him to have that that orange bar down the middle. I... I'm not sure how I feel about colored cages. I I I I...

I'm curious as to whether some guys don't like them, some guys do. So it's it's it's on my list of questions to ask this year.

I'm fine with them as long as it's white on the inside. You you don't you don't notice, the outside when when you're when you're playing. So I I would need it to be white.

Okay. See, there you go. Oh, he... And his might be. Right?

Like, on the inside, it might be white. It's just

How many cages do you think he has painted, like, just standing by?

That's another good question because, I mean, cages get dented all the time. Although those those pro choice ones, you you... I mean, that center bar is so thick. You you gotta think that that might last a little longer than some other models, but that's a great question, Daren. It's a great question.

Right now, my cage is gold, and they they said, do you want do you wanna go... Do you wanna paint it on me? Sure. But it'll be white in two weeks because That's how fast they get. Yeah.

It get... Just get dinged up, and you don't wanna wear a compromised cage as we've learned.

You definitely don't wanna wear a compromised cage if you value your eyesight because you know the high heat's coming again. Absolutely.

That's the goalie news on InGoal Radio, the podcast. Time for the Gear Segment brought to you by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com.

Gear

Well, Hutch just stepped away for a minute, so I think I'll make a Wally Pip reference. But in the spirit of Wally Pip, Jono's back for one more segment before we welcome Cam back into the fold. Cam was on assignment. We left him on assignment. He'll be back soon, but we got Jono that we're gonna talk about.

A a new twig Just came out. TPS response, 2 k pro goalie stick. Honestly, hadn't... Didn't know much about it. So let's just let John all tell us all about it.

He's he's got a pretty good breakdown here. Welcome back to The Hockey Shop Source for Sports. Cam is still away on assignment, so we've brought in a brand that is probably older than Jono.

I don't think you're wrong.

I think most brands are probably older than this kid. I'll be honest with you. There's probably food in my fridge that is older than this kid. But he is here, and he's been great with his goalie expertise, including we're getting to a new product. We've...

We did the old TPS stick that first came out, the yellow one Yeah. The rubber. Cam. Yeah. The rubber stick.

There's a new one. There's a new twig here. Walk me through what the Response 2k pro is all about.

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think it looks really nice. It's got this really nice kind of carbon gunmetal gray design with these gold accents.

I do like

me a gunmetal. Yeah. And it's, you know, it looks classic, but it also looks modern. I I just think it's a good looking stick to start things off.

Yeah. Honest, like, it's... Like, from a weight perspective, know that the specs are somewhere, like, depending on the size between... What was it? Something like 550 to 650 range?

About that. Yes. It's a pretty light stick, but it's actually pretty well balanced as well. It doesn't feel bottom heavy like some do, so that's good. It's got a rubber grip on it.

They call it their three d Rub Grip technology. You said 18 k carbon in there?

18 k carbon. So high quality carbon. It's a pro level carbon, and this is, you know, a pro level stick and, you know, at that price point as well. T p 31, do we

have different curves or is it just a t p 31 curve?

Just the t p 31 curve in this stick.

Walk me through what a t p 31 is. I mean, it's... Putting you on the spot.

I mean, first of all, you know, most people know it as a p 31. That's gonna be kind of what you would know. Right. It does. As the curve itself, you've got the toe opening up a little bit.

It's more of a closed kind of at the heel and then, you know, but it's subtle. It's not a crazy wedge. It's not a crazy curve like a p 28 or anything like that. I I personally use it. I find it's a really nice middle ground.

Is it got equivalent in other brands or

is it pretty much like a... The p 31 and Bauer kind of across the board commonly understood?

Yeah. I think that's kind of the commonly like anything that ends in 31 is gonna kind of match up with that.

Okay. Flex point? Kinda mid flex?

I think so. It is a stiffer stick compared to some of the other pro level sticks. I wouldn't say it's the stiffest, but it's definitely more on that kind of side of things.

Okay. One thing I noticed, like, talked about the gunmetal grade, but we got a little bit of differentiating here. One's kinda more of a a bronze gold Mhmm. And one's a little more orangey. Can you walk me through that?

Is that like different sizes have different sort of Yeah.

Color layouts? So, first of all, I I just wanna point out that I actually think this bronze edition looks really good too, but it is different. So it's worth pointing out. Now...

You don't wanna think you're

getting a bronze stick and end up with an orange one. Exactly. And so, with these sticks, in the twenty six and twenty four inch paddles, you're actually gonna get it in this bronze colorway. And then in all other sizes....

Bronze one.

Right? That's the orange.

Or the... Well... Which one's the one?

Sorry. I was thinking this one's kind of more gold, and then I was looking at the bronze up here. So... Yeah. Anyways...

My wife has constantly told me that I'm color blind. Can't know that it... Like, I'm like, I'm putting on black pants today. She's like, those are navy blue, dumbass.

So we're gonna go with Jono on which color is which. Regardless, this color that you're looking at right here would come in the twenty six and twenty four sizes. And mine would? Come in every other size from twenty two up to twenty seven.

Okay. Something to take note of. So a new product that we haven't had a lot of testing or feedback on, so there's limited information. But it does give me the chance to tell my Louisville, There you go. My TPS, Henrik Lundqvist, Sherwood, Marty Brodeur story, which as some have heard before when we did the last stick, a refresher, the company that bought both of those companies, like a private equity investment firm, approached us asking which one should they go with.

Marty Brodeur established in the Sherwood line or Henrik Lundqvist and the TPS. I remember those TPS with the, like, super tall thigh rise he used to wear. Oh, yeah. Our advice was TPS. Our advice was Henrik Lundqvist.

They went with Sherwood. Sherwood, other than sticks, doesn't really exist anymore.

Not for goalie. No. I think we should have gone with our advice because that Lundqvist guy ended up in the Hall of Fame too. Was pretty big during that era.

So we're just telling stories, having fun. If you've got any questions about this, again, not a ton of information on it. You can find it on the website at the hockeyshop.com. If you got any questions, hit them up. Jono, thanks for

doing this. Thanks for having me.

So is Louisville back?

They're making sticks. Player sticks too.

Back in the sticks.

Yeah. They're back in the sticks.

You think Louisville? Who's... Who pops into your mind?

Well, I've told story. You know what? I've told this story before, and that's... It's Henrik. Henrik.

I'm I'm Curtis Joseph, Edmonton.

Oh, yes. See, that's, I mean, there was a time for sure. You know you know who else pops into my mind? Antti Niemi.

Oh, yes.

Remember, like, this sort of super straight? And here's... So here's I I I

never got those ones. The... Like, Niemi's pads were so straight. Oh, so were Hanks.

Forward straight.

So were Hanks. They were... Like, they had a little curve, but they were pretty straight. So we've told the story on the podcast before about how the the company, the private equity firm or or investment company that purchased Louisville also purchased Sherwood. And they actually asked us, consulted with us a little bit and asked us which one they should carry forward.

Sherwood under Marty Brodeur or Louisville TPS under Henrik Lundqvist. And we said Lundqvist. Not... No disrespect to Brodeur, one of the greatest of all time, but just, you know, as that there was a changeover in generations and and Lundqvist is the face of the franchise in New York and the king and all those things and Olympic gold medal, we figured that that was the way to go. They went the other way, which...

Hey. Fair choice. First ballot Hall of Famer, one of the greatest of all time, Martin Brodeur. But the the other part to that that got a little bit lost... I don't know if we've told this story on there, Hutch, but I remember and I am brain cramping on the name of the developer, the guy who was building their gear.

He's Oh, gosh. Yes.

He's still involved in the game. I think he does repairs. Dave

Yeah. Vaughn. Oh, I apologize.

So he brought me here in Vancouver a set of Niemi style straight pads, but they had stiffened up the inside edge to the point where it was almost like a hard plastic. And I went out and played in these things just one time. It was... They didn't leave the set with us. We didn't do a full review on it, but it was just, hey, like, what do you think of this?

I could not believe how well these pads slid. And don't forget, this is before Bauer Odin. So in addition to the whole, should they have picked Louisville, TPS with Henrik Lundqvist, or Sherwood with Martin Brodeur, they had a product that was coming to market under the TPS brand that would have been ahead of the curve. I'm thinking now of everybody having a stiff inside edge and different materials and sliding better. They were ahead of everyone else with a with a hard sliding, fast sliding inner edge material.

Like, to the point where I was just blown away by it, I could not believe how much faster this thing was. And if they hadn't sort of killed that line, what might have been beyond the the name itself, but actually in terms of, you know, maybe a different company being the first out of the gate with what Bauer ultimately ended up doing with the Bauer Odin line.

Hutch, anybody else that you can remember wearing Louisville?

Yeah. There was a pretty good Hall of Famer who won a couple of games in Buffalo and Detroit. Who... Can anybody remember that name?

Or some kind of name.

Dominic? Dominic Hasek. Right. That was the first thing that came to my mind.

And that didn't that didn't pop in my head. That's funny.

Absolutely did for me. They were beautiful pads, but I also don't trust my own memory. So that's why I didn't jump in there.

I'm gonna jump in here because it... I I was trying to remember it. Dave Wilcox.

Thank you.

Yep. Apologies. Great dude. And, you know, a guy who is, again, another one of the OGs. I think he's he's he's got a Wilcox goal design company.

Looks like he's making sort of custom one offs and and it looks like he's still making some gloves and rebuilding some gloves and rebuilding old, like, sort of putting back together old material. Like, he's just a great dude. Like I said

great minds.

What what might have been if Louisville had been able to continue. Because those pads he's... He showed me that day were absolutely ahead of the game in terms of sliding.

Hey. Hot tip people in the equipment industry, listen to Kevin Woodley.

I'm in the Optic 2 right now. Those things slide like crazy.

Yeah. Me away. What's the name of their slide material at Brian's? I'm I'm brain cramping here, Hutch. I'm gonna need you to bail me out on this.

Slide or something? I opt to slide. Yeah. Opt to slide. It's

know I wasn't expecting it.

Oh, it's it's... Slides like, hotdamn.

Yeah. I'm like, boy, my pushes have got powerful.

Speaking of the goalie news, is there anything about you getting to push around the crease this week?

Making some, noise around the crease is is my footwork. That... That's the biggest noise.

What are you wearing?

You showing one piece? I

think you said we're I think you said we're allowed to talk about this nowadays.

Yeah. But I think we should be the ones talking about it. So Daren got outed this week as the, Vegas Golden Knights e-bug, man. Congratulations on that. Congrats, Daren.

That's exceptional. We've always known that you practice with the team, and so we've always sort of teased you and made fun and had a good time with the fact that you're facing NHL shooters, but now in the official capacity, which means you travel and I get to see you in person, which is awesome.

Which is why I was up in Vancouver, fulfilling that role. So I I it won't change a lot from what I was already doing, to be quite honest, going out for the odd practice or pregame skate, return to play skates with with players rehabbing from from injury. I just... I I I will be on the road now. It it was a a great opportunity that that we discussed with the organization knowing the guys and the coaches already, and and it's it's gonna be fun.

I'll I'll be honest. It... I'm not too cool to realize it's really cool. It's really cool. Be able to do it and and be around the players, a little bit, you know, a little bit more behind the scenes fashion. But

Well, you are... You already were, but this is just an official another level.

Traveling and and just being just being more involved. And and all the equipment

In theory in theory, the next man up.

Yeah. If we could go back to my rabbit holes, in theory You got a chance to break David Ayres' record. You could break David Ayres' record.

Somebody said By ten years. Somebody asked, the other day. We're having a conversation. Are you the oldest e bug? And another person from the back of the room gun.

I... Profanity, I hope so.

No. Really good. But I had

to get all my gear, approved by Kay Whitmore.

Yep. Yep. That was actually shock, really? Like, that kind of process? I had heard...

I talked to a few e bugs, and I heard that that was Everything. That was part of the process.

Did it change the size you normally wear, Daren?

In in a weird... So this will surprise you. I didn't I didn't ask for a specific size. You just get measured. Right?

Yeah. And I just assumed that it would come either the same size as the CCM set that I was wearing or a little bit smaller. My pads are bigger. Really? Yeah.

They're they're taller than than what I was wearing. They

Kay. Don't listen to this.

No. But official measure there official measurement on them? Are they, like, thirty four

plus I don't know. My my East Egg can head on. Perfectly.

Yeah. Yeah. Because, of course, it hits perfectly because you got, like, full out custom pads measured with your LVS and your

Everything. But the but the the the height of them is a little bit taller than than the CCM ones.

It may also be the way it's sitting. You had a pretty flat... You were in a well worn, pretty flat boot in your CCM. Yeah. And these, just based on the pad model you described to us, is probably sitting up a little higher up on on your skate.

I believe it's a pretty flat base on that as well.

What about the bucket?

Bucket is, is just painted. I'll bring you guys all the information, next week. But it's it's cool. It's it's gold. It's it's neat. I

Do do you know who made it?

Yep. I will bring it all to you next week. Okay. Because I wanna make sure that he's okay that, that that we share A

100%. We don't we do not wanna violate any trust, Daren. You know you know, we're just happy for you.

I'm just... I hope... Was hoping you could tell the difference between CCM Bauer and True when you're

looking at the actual mask. It's... Yeah. It's a Bauer nine sixty.

And Okay. Good.

And Well done. The mask, designer turned it around in, like, a week. Actually, just... We we were... We we needed it done fast, and we're running into some roadblocks because people are are are backed up.

And People are backed up right now. Yeah. The extra 32 sets of gear for K around the league and the extra 32 masks for the artists, it's...

Yeah. I will say that

Is there a mic?

Do you remember the conversation we had about bugs and and and masks? And I said, I wonder if anybody will have

Putting bugs on it?

Yeah. Yep. That was already in the in the works.

There's a bug on

There's there's a few bugs on it.

Is there a microphone on it?

There's not. There should

have been

right there

in way around it.

Yeah. Right there in the chin.

Hey. Did we did we

we shout out our friend, Basil, from Custom Cages on the Levy, Merilinen mask?

Oh, that... Yes, we Garret tribute? Okay.

I just wanted to make sure. I thought I'm almost... We've forgotten, because they've been on the road, and I don't think most people realize this, but the one he did for the black jerseys, the black skate jerseys, obviously, with the John Garrett tribute, that got a ton of attention. I don't think people realize this, but Levi Madden on the entire six game road trip has also been wearing a blue, white, and green mask that is a wrap that Basil from Custom Cages did for him. That's also Basil's work.

Cannot tell it's a wrap.

And the pads and the pads and gloves are his Ottawa senator's pads and gloves with a layer of wrap slash vinyl cover that... Basil also does pads, and he's got his own material. It's different than some of the other brands like Pad Skins, and they went to him for that, and it's held up very well as as as well. So customcages.ca, folks, if you're looking for, some... That level of quality.

Wow. Because I watched, I watched the Canucks game the other day, saw him in the the blue and white mask, and I thought, okay. So I guess he's got his painted one in

That's a that's a wrap.

Didn't even cross my mind. We'll also shout out Basil with a big personal thank you because he's doing a wrap for my son, Matthew, right now. If anybody wants to see it, all you have to do is go to a Calgary Canucks game. You'll probably double the attendance if you show up, and, appreciate you

doing that. Not needed.

Not far from the truth.

I think the wrap's a a perfectly legitimate way to go. It's so it's so it pops and it's quick and a little less expensive. Like, it's it's a great alternative.

Yeah. It's it's it's incredible. Can I? I'll just

Mine's been super durable too. I'll say that.

Mhmm. Can I shout out my father here? I had the old Cooper helmet with the with the cat eye cage when the first year that we were told we couldn't wear fiberglass masks. That's how old I am. You are.

And my father went down to the basement. He bought a bunch of, like, MacTac colored colored vinyl, and he cut it out, and he completely custom designed my Cooper bucket. And, wow, I... I'm I'm actually tearing up because I don't know that anybody ever did that with the old helmet and cage combo at the time, but my dad thought to do it. Very powerful moment for me personally.

And then when my son, looking at the mask right now, when my son was younger, I did the same thing. It was, obviously not the old bucket and cage. It was the the combo mask that we all wear today. I went out and I just bought some vinyl and I cut it to the right size to make it look kinda cool for him. And it was, every bit as powerful as any wrap or paint job that you could ever get today.

So mom and dad, if it's all too pricey, do it yourself. They will appreciate it. My son still talks.

Arts and crafts night at the Hutchison. He Honestly couldn't do that here. They don't let me have scissors.

That is

true. Would he use lead tape on his?

Rightly so.

Why is this so heavy?

That would explain... That would actually explain a lot.

Vizual Edge ProReads brought to you by our friends at Vizual Edge.

Do you want the puck to look like a beach ball? Let me tell you. It didn't look like a beach ball to me this weekend because I have not been keeping up with my visual edge while I was injured. If I had, it would have looked like a beach ball. And then I would remember that every goalie has that night, yep, here and there where the puck looks huge.

You're ahead of every play. You feel calm. You feel patient. You feel in total control. The opposite of me on the weekend.

Then there are the nights... Oh, I know this one. Where you're a half step late. You see it, but you don't really see it. You're reaching.

You're guessing. You're fighting it. It's not your technique. Although in my case, maybe a little bit. It's your eyes and your brain not processing the play fast enough.

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Vizual Edge will help you see and read the game better, which makes them the perfect sponsor for our ProReads, which are all about reading the game better, including this week's, we have the return of Devin Cooley with a great breakdown on... It's kind of a beer league one, so it's appropriate for all of us in beer league because it basically is a two on o that turns into a three on one. And he goes through several elements, including how to read whether a guy's gonna shoot or pass, how to stay ready, and some of the decisions that go into do you slide or do you come across on your skate. Daren, have you got a threshold there on the ice? Are there spots on the ice where it's just like, hey.

If it's below this point, I'm sliding across, or are you trying to hold edges? Like, do you do you do you consciously do that, or is it a feel on each different play?

It's it's more a feel, but I do default to to sliding. And then usually, Freddie Braithwaite, he'll yell at me.

I I I default to slide. I used to default to sliding a lot too, but now I have trouble getting back up. So I just try and stay on my skates. Hutch, you got a threshold out there? A lot of guys use hash marks?

I would just say, goalies, when you're in practice, try and beat it on your feet no matter where it is. I think you'll find you can get there faster than you think, and that actual practice is well worth doing. I know, though, because I did the graphics on this one, exactly what it is. And I actually had a lot of fun with it because if you watch the ProRead, he says, we have a rule at Calgary that if it is... And then he later on explained that there's actually some exceptions.

So it went from rule to guideline. There are no absolutes in Goal

Tag. Think the hash marks

down, you're... I slide.

You'd be amazed if you tried how much you can beat on your feet, Daren. Speed like yours? Come on, buddy.

Especially if you just do what

I do, stand on the goal line the whole time. It's a it's a short push, Daren.

A little short shuffle.

Yeah. A little short. Oh, just turn my head. Look at that. I'm in the middle of the net still.

Never left it.

Laugh all you want. That's actually a consideration is where you play on the ice.

100%. 100%. And they play deeper in Calgary, which Devin talks about in this. Like, how much ice to take? Like, the slider, don't slide thing is the headline on this one, but, really, it's a five may...

Five minute breakdown that covers off four or five different key elements. And so it's one of the reasons I wanted to get back to Devin Cooley, not just because he had an incredible year last year, but he thinks the game at such a high level, and he's so willing to share it. So, it's a great breakdown. Make sure you check it out. Darren, I was gonna say that I...

You know, Hutch is... You've probably heard the same thing as Hutch just espoused. If if you can't beat it on your feet, you're probably too far out. That's that's a Sean Burke teaching teaching tool that he learned from Ben Walsh as well. So, there's just a ton in this week's ProReads featuring Devin Cooley.

So if you're not a subscriber already, if you're one of those people that sees the thirty second clip on Instagram and then comes up to me and says, I subscribed to you on Instagram, you're not getting the full subscription. If you subscribe to ingoalmag.com, that thirty second reel becomes a four and a half, five minute breakdown featuring Devin Cooley this week, and it's a fantastic one that will help you make more saves, help you process, and think the game better. It's why we do ProReads. It's a great example of why we do ProReads from Devin Cooley this week.

I'm always just paranoid to be getting beat by the shot. And and and I almost

You just want to take more ice. Along the ice.

Yeah. I take more ice just because I don't wanna get beat by that shot. Now I'm not saying that that's normal or or or advantageous at all.

On the situation. Yeah. That's normal. That's okay depending on the situation a 100%.

And then I can blame my defenseman by doing that. Tuesday Nights at 09:00.

We talked about that.

I hope you're not do... I hope you're not doing that in the E BUG rule. No.

No. No. No. Good shot.

That's only for Tuesday nights at 09:00

too. Nights at nine.

Yeah. Yeah. Daren comes into his first NHL game, gets scored on after the tenth shot. Throws his hands up. Throws his hands up in the air.

What are you guys doing?

Stares down the blue line.

No. Do you know who I am?

I'm I'm staring at Adam, my defenseman on Tuesday nights at nine saying, come on. Ad man, let's go.

Love it.

Parent Playbook

There's there's not a lot of talking on the other one. When we get to, the parent segment, brought to you by Stop It Goaltending U the app. Hutch, you got something, cool today, presented by Stop It Goaltending U the app, our good friends.

Yeah. Our good friends with twenty five years of NHL goalie coaching experience at your fingertips through the app. You wanna tap into the goalie parenting expertise that helped Joey Daccord reach the NHL with Seattle Kraken? That's what you get with the subscription to Stop It Goaltending U the app. All the knowledge of Brian Daccord has been an NHL goalie coach scout and director, now again with the Detroit Red Wings in that role, as well as all the insights and expertise from his staff at Stop It, which includes a long list of veteran NCAA coaches, all delivered in easy to digest chunks, including five short daily primers, weekly style analysis and breakdown videos, and drills that you can take onto the ice with your team and coach.

Plus, you get a subscription to InGoal Magazine included. So check it out now at the App Store or Google Play and get the best of both worlds. There was a subscription or a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and a subscription to InGoal Magazine. Hutch.

Hutch.

I love waiting for Daren to just say, Hutch.

This week's Parent Playbook, I have titled the stuff that lasts. Just before sitting down to record this episode, I picked up an old friend at the airport. Guy and I met when we were about 11. I'm almost 60 now. That's nearly fifty years.

We only lived in the same city for two years. It was hockey that brought us together. Shout out, Streetsville Minor Hockey in Mississauga, Ontario. But it didn't stick by accident. Our parents made it happen.

They organized visits throughout the year even though we lived in different cities. They they were friends themselves. I'm not sure Guy and I would still be friends if they hadn't done that. I talk to goalie parents all the time, and I know what we worry about. Is my kid starting?

What's the save percentage? Is the other goalie getting more starts? But, honestly, do you remember your start... Stats from when you were 11, guys? I don't.

I was really good.

I remember... Yeah. And and Woody didn't play at all. I remember who was in the room. That's what hockey gives our kids that last the longest, and it never shows up on a score sheet.

And for goalies, that person, not in this case with my good friend Guy, that person most likely to become a lifelong friend is often the one we're tempted to see as competition, and that's the other goalie. Couple of nights ago, my wife Jill and I turned on YouTube to watch an NCAA game at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. We were watching Joey Rocha, who was our son Matthew's goalie partner way back in u fifteen. That year, they split the net, and Joey, being the older of the two, got most of the bigger games. Turns out later on, they went on to face each other in the Western Hockey League, and today, they're still best of friends, and they talk all of the time.

I'm not saying we did anything special as parents. A lot of that is really just who Matthew and Joey are as people. But make no mistake, both those kids wanted the net every night. What they figured out and what a lot of us adults struggle with is that competition and friendships aren't the opposite. You can want the same net as somebody and still be in their corner.

If Jill and I did one thing, it was that we stayed out of the way. And that's harder than it sounds. When your kid's sitting and the other goalie's playing, everything in you wants to do something about it. It's easy to say something in the car on the way home or start counting starts or comment about the other kid or their parents. Every goalie parent feels that pull, but our kids pick up on all of it.

So here's my challenge this week. Would you be comfortable if your kid heard everything you said about the other goalie? Would you be comfortable if the other goalie's parents heard it? Then go do the positive stuff. Say yes to the goalie camp and not just for the skill work.

The kids your goalie meets at goalie school are the same kids they're gonna be facing from the other end of the rink for years, and there's a special bond as we all know between goaltenders. Say yes to the sleepover at the other goalie's house and to the team dinner and whatever it is that you're doing together so you make sure your goalie isn't just the goalie at the end of the bench. And when someone moves away or switches teams, help them stay in touch. That's what makes these friendships survive or disappear, and it's exactly what my good friend Guy's parents and mine did for us. The drives, the visits, the phone calls.

As a parent that's not getting in the way, that's where a little parent involvement can go a long way. This week, I get to spend some time with my friend, somebody I met at age 11 because of this game. Neither of us are gonna bring bringing up any scores or any games, and I bet that forty years from now, our son Matthew and his buddy Joey won't either. That's the stuff that lasts. Help your kid find it.

Well said. One of my best buddies, on the planet. There's a group of, four of us. He's he's my, goalie partner when we were 12. We only played one year together.

He's still my best friend.

That's awesome. Yeah. Same story. That's fantastic. I love it.

We don't have any friends. That we used to play with.

Is that back in Brandon? What

was that? What do

I saying I I don't have any friends, but the... It's funny that we we do have a little group, like, for our two skates. There's a group of, like, four or five goalies. We're always making sure we got at least two guys for the skates. And, you know, sometimes, like, there's seniority, certain guys are supposed to get in.

We're always kinda working together to make sure that, you know, make sure that everybody's getting involved and everybody's getting a chance to play. And, like, some of them have become guys that I lean on, you know, personally over the years, whether you're going through a tough time or whatever. So it's funny how it is. The union is strong. We call it a union for a reason.

Yeah. We're independent contractors working together, supporting each other. NHL Sense Arena feature interview, this week, Shane Clifford. But first, a word from NHL Sense Arena. Hutch.

Feature Interview - Shane Clifford

NHL Sense Arena feature interview, this week, Shane Clifford. But first, a word from NHL Sense Arena. Hutch.

Absolutely. As with every week, our feature interview is presented by NHL Sense Arena. You warm up your legs before a game. You take shots in warm up. But are you warming up your brain?

That's what Sense Arena is built for. Off ice, VR training for goalies that works on things like your reads and your reactions. Joey Daccord uses it as his pregame routine. Devon Levi of the Edmonton Oilers says it keeps his mental game sharp between practices and games. And Devin Cooley, who breaks down a three on one in this week's ProRead, is on their list of goalies who trust it too.

The numbers back it up. NHL Sense Arena tells us that after 20 sessions, goalies average 15% better at reading shot releases, 9% better on angles, and see a 10.6% jump in save percentage. Every subscription, of course, includes their goalie advancement program, and annual plans are half off right now. So head over to sensearena.com. And, of course, as always, use the code I g m 50 when you subscribe.

Woody?

Shane Clifford has been doing this for a long bloody time, and he's been doing it starting in... With the Pittsburgh Penguins. He's worked at tons of different levels, but mostly with junior. And we really wanted to get him on the show because we know a lot of parents out there, they wanna get to the junior levels. So who better to ask than a guy who's been coaching junior up to major junior right now in the USHL, the NHL for over twenty years?

This is a conversation. This may not be a household name for a lot of you, but this is a fascinating conversation, not just about where goalie coaching is at and advice for other young goalie coaches, but where the game is at and where it's at for young kids, and what are the nonnegotiables that are gonna help your young child get recognized and get some of those opportunities. They're not all about technique. We get into a lot of different things, in in this interview. So, enjoy it.

It's a long one, but it's worth the listen. There's a ton of great takeaways in here. I really enjoyed the conversation. I wish we had more time. All I can say is there definitely will be a part two with Shane Clifford.

He's had time with with Carter Hart, time with Dustin Wolf at the Western Hockey League. That's the closest I got to him when he was just down the road in Everett. But he's been doing this, like I said, at multiple levels for well over two decades, and this this interview is loaded with great information. Super excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. First time guest, but a a gentleman whose name I've known since I actually first started covering goaltending way back in the early two thousands.

I remember hearing about his work down with the Everett Silvertips. He has been coaching junior hockey for well over twenty years now. Shane Clifford. How are you, Shane?

I'm doing great. How are guys doing? I appreciate you guys having me on. Like, your magazine's kinda taken off, and it's just it's all over the place. And, obviously, you know, when Ian Clark gets on there, I jump on there and listen to he has to say because I love him, and he's, he's he's helped me out a lot.

I was I was gonna say, like, it... It's incredible to me that our paths haven't crossed sooner. I feel... I apologize for that. It's like I said, like, I've sort of...

I've known of you and your work with various goaltenders that... You know, like, goalies over the years as they get up to the NHL have referenced their work with you over the years. So it's just taken me far too long to catch up. You mentioned Ian, a mutual friend of ours. You started sort of coaching junior about the time I was starting working for his Goalie Magazine.

So before we get to your coaching career, walk me through what happened before then. You played a little minor pro, and you were saying before we started recording that you really felt like even though you didn't get into a lot of games, that that helps sort of set the foundation for what you do now on the coaching side.

Well, I I think just how fast the game happens. Like, when you watch it from upstairs or whatever, you know, and you're watching your game, hanging out with your buddies and, you know, and and you're watching the game just how quickly those guys make plays, how quickly the the the puck moves, and then one time in pucks and screens and deflections and just how... The goalies used to be behind because, you know, we'd stand up, and they just come along and rip one on the ice. You know, the net's wider than it is tall and beat us, and then the butterfly came in. And then we've kinda caught up to them where the goalies are almost not better than the players, but we were kinda on even even par.

Now they deflect them out where they have enough horizontal and aerial angle to get around you. They're attacking from the goal line. They're one... They one timer everything, and they've just gotten so good at what they do.

What was the what was the career like, and where did the passion start for you? Because, clearly, you've kept it through twenty plus years of coaching.

Well, that's a great question. I started doing Rick Heinz goalie schools back in the day. When when you put the key

That's a that's a popular answer, by the way. We've had a lot of Rick Heinz goalie schools over the years here.

He's done a lot for for... You know, he's had a lot of goalies, you know, that he's had worked his camps and just through that, fell in love with coaching and and kinda, you know, done a really good job with, like, Pete Aubrey, the coach at Edmonton Oilers. We... I met him, and I ended up coaching him, but we did, you know, Rick Heinz goalie camps together.

Wow. Yeah. Rick Heinz ties everything together. So playing days to coaching, like, did you know that was something you were gonna do once you were done playing? It...

Or how did it sort of come about after you finished playing? Like you said, mostly minor pro. Were there highlights that stand out for you from that minor pro career?

I think for me, personally, like, to be very honest with you, like, people say you you you have to scratch and claw. I I thought I've had to do that. Like, I'm from Cincinnati. That's not a hockey hotbed. No.

You know, hope it gets better. But at the end of the day, like, I was just... Any team that would call, I would go to. You know, the Dayton Bombers were around, the Cincinnati Cyclones, Dennis would call me all the time. And just being out there with those guys and just being at practice and hanging out with them and just, you know, when you come from a background and not, you know, knowing a ton about stuff, to be honest with then you get thrown into that.

It was it was crazy. You know? But you just learned so much. And then I learned a lot from Frederic Chabot, and then Francois Allaire would come out. So it was just it was just a whirlwind of just knowledge, and I just tried to grab as much of it as I could.

And I'm just so passionate for it and just refused to quit until I got a chance to do something, and it's worked out really good. But you know how it is. Kevin, there's a lot of people that's helped me get where I am, and I'm just so grateful for that.

Did you take... What about from a philosophy standpoint? You mentioned how fast the game's become, how quickly it's evolved in the past couple of years, the the players sort of catching up to us on the concept of, you know, the off season being about skill development, not just bigger, stronger, faster, something I think goalies were ahead of for decades. Sort of walk me through sort of your philosophy, and I know how... Asking you how it's evolved over twenty years of hockey, twenty plus years of of coaching, you know, that's a big question, but what are some of the foundations that you've maintained throughout that?

To me, it's fundamentals. To me, I think a pro goalie is better than other goalies because their fundamentals are better, they're just more consistent with everything that they do. Now that's to put that in a quite... A nice little tight package there. Obviously, there's, you know, athleticism to that.

Can you read the play hockey IQ? You know, your compete level, all those things will go into that. But as far as philosophy, man, it's changed a lot just because as me, I've had to evolve. Like, I remember doing a two... You know, playing, doing a two pad stack, working on your skate save, and then you see someone do a butterfly and a butterfly slide.

My first mobility while down I saw was Dany Sabourin when I was with Johnstown. He rotate and pushed over while down, and I'm like, I gotta I gotta learn that. And then when I start coaching goalies tomorrow, we have to get that in our game because it was just it's just the way things are going. And then and then even a two pad stack, you know, you you get over there, but getting up from it's a mess. And then you see, you know, Frederic Chabot do a butterfly slide, and he had those overdrive blades on his skates too.

You remember those?

Oh, yeah. So

so I had to get some of those, but it... You know, that just kinda date me a little bit. But you've had... I've had a change and adapt, but everything everything just has gotten so much better and so much technical.

The... I mean, I was gonna ask you too because, you know, I was... The timelines. Like, your transition from playing into coaching is at a time when, you know, as you mentioned, like, the idea of a butterfly slide of a recovery from the knees, the idea of proper leg recovery, like, that was right around when I started sort of paying attention to goaltending and learning, working for InGoal Magazine and seeing guys in the NHL, some of the best in the NHL at that point, guys at the end of long careers who got up with the same leg all the time. They didn't have a proper leg recovery because it hadn't been taught to that point.

So you kinda started at a time when, you know, the technical side of the game was really transforming quickly.

Very quickly. I mean, somewhat like Patrick Roy, don't you think he rotated? I mean, they didn't... I mean, obviously, how fast you rotate mean accurate. That rotation is very important, but he just got up on he got up on same leg and just competed and used this butterfly.

But it it... You know, for me, if you really go back, there was the paddle down that came in.

K.

Then the VH came in, then the reverse came in. I mean, there's so many things that changed during that time that you just have to kinda keep up with, but it's been awesome.

You mentioned fundamentals. Can you give me some examples? You don't have to give them all away. Can you meet some examples of what you consider fundamentals?

Well, I think your shot preparation has to be on point. The guy shoot the puck so hard today. If you're deep in the net, you're getting scored on. Obviously, it's angle scoring depth. But if you...

If you're not on angle on and you're not square the puck and you're deep in the net, you're gonna get lit up. I mean, the guys are just too good today. So you have to get depth whenever you have time to get it, which usually for me in general would... In general terms, we'll just say back to skate, stop, or the crease. But then you go out to practices and you watch all these goalies.

Yeah. Their angles on, and they're square, but they're too deep in the net. Next thing you know, there's six pucks that's been shot by them that, you know, they'd have a better chance to stop if they're out of the net. That's just one example. Another one for me is just stick discipline.

Like, you know, humans are. We have two legs, and when we move, we create holes. But the amount of people that just don't have their stick on the ice, especially when they're going to, I call it, lateral adjustment mobility while down, or they're gonna do their butterfly, their sticks off to the side, and and they get five holes. So, you know, that's but I'm more in a junior world too. So our goalies are still developing and putting a total package to get their game ready.

You know, they're still doing... You know, they don't really understand their blocking, acting zone regions or how much net they take away at all time. And especially, you getting your glove close to a puck with proximity. Like, there's a lot of stuff we're still, you know, teaching here. That's the greatest part about the juniors that you're still teaching to be...

Help them become a full time product.

Now you have worked for a lot of different teams over the years. You've been in Sioux City for a long time in the USHL. Maybe share because I I do wanna get into sort of how that's evolved, how recruiting's evolved, you know, advice for goalie parents and young goalies that are trying to get to that level to work with guys like yourself. But sort of walk me through what a day to day looks like you, what a week to week looks like for you because I know you've got several different hats at different level.

Oh, strap in. I'm gone quite a bit. So so the biggest thing is it's... It depends on where you're at. So right now, to go back to early, I've coached in the National Hockey League with the Penguins.

I was I was gonna ask you about that too. Yeah. Right out of the gate.

Yeah. I've done the AHL with Wilkes Barre. I've done the East Coast League with Alaska, and then I also did it with Johnstown. I've done the CHL, which the Canadian Hockey League, I've been in the O and the dub. And then there's an old league called the CHL that was pro.

I've coached pro in France. I've in the North American League, USHL, and NCDC, and I have rings in those three leagues there. So they sit on my... You know, at home, and I look at them every day because they're so hard to get. I wish people would understand that.

So that's kind of, you know, part of, you know, where I've coached. But... A funny story for you, and this is a big part of me learning, you know, goaltending, and, you know, I I heard Ian talking. You gotta build a relationship with these guys. Well, I'm new in my career, and guess who walks to the door in Johnstown?

Artus Irbe. He just he just played in the Stanley Cup the year before they're having some contract negotiations, but he had pads in the air. You know, he just didn't really play the way that, you know, I was used to coaching, you know, which, you know, at that time, there... It was still evolving. No one really had a, you know, the...

Hey. This is a fundamental. You know?

Right. We still had our... Yeah.

We did it. And, obviously, he was doing great. So it's like, I'm not gonna go in there and try to change everything. So... And that's something I've learned, you know, too.

It's just watching a goalie and see... You know, sometimes you just have to let them fail a couple times, and then you keep showing them the video and say, hey. Let's just try this instead. And that's kind of a way sometimes you can go about it. But with Archie, I'm like, Archie, I'm rotation proper lay kinda guy.

No. You're not. That's... But, you know, the only thing I knew to tell him because, you know, obviously, displayed in a, you know, Stanley Cup was, what can I do to help you? And he pipes right up.

He's like, hey, man. I like to be at the top of the crease. I like to get my feet set. And he's really, really into a shop preparation. So we did a lot of drills towards that and just things that he would work on or wanna work on.

We would just kinda go do those, and we would just kinda talk about, like Ian Ian says, it's just a... It's a partnership, and that was early in my career. So that really... That that was one of my moments. I'm like, you know what?

I I really think I might be able to do this.

When... It's funny because he... As you as you describe that, as much as the way he would get there at certain times would be different than what you were trying to teach, when we talked fundamentals, like, he's basically... That's still a part of his. Right?

Like, he may get there different, but he wants to get to that same spot you'd talked about and set in square and all those things are a big part of it.

Yeah. I think... I... Sometimes goalie coaches, I think... So in Pittsburgh, we had these little ice pads.

Right?

And Yep.

A lot of goalies will want the big ice, but I I mean, big picture to me is, like, you know, to be very honest, we've had so much success. Like, we've had 25 goalies come out of Pittsburgh, you know, that I've been fortunate to be part of their journey with. But my... We had back to back national championships. John Gibson's from there.

But my point being is until... You know, talking about fundamentals, until you can move around the net. Now if I'm a baseball player, I throw the ball with you a 100 mile an hour on my right arm. Right? Well, as a hockey goalie, I have to be able to throw my left hand too because you have to be able to move right to left and left to right, and it has to be equal.

Until you master that, we have a lot of work to do. So fundamental for me is obviously mobility, and you gotta be as mobile down as you are up. It's just part of the game and the way it's played today with the way they attack the net.

Until you master that, we have a lot of work to do. So fundamental for me is obviously mobility, and you gotta be as mobile down as you are up. It's just part of the game and the way it's played today with the way they attack the net.

It's it's funny. I mean, you you... We think of some of these, the the Russian goalies that have come over and dominated, and not just them, but they stand out because you talk about their down game and their mobility. I mean, I think the term... And I think it was Ian that was the first I heard use it.

It's like a hovercraft up there for, an Igor Shesterkin. Their ability to move from their knees and and rotate and change angle and set set angle while they're moving is remarkable. You mentioned the pads in Pittsburgh. Is that at your goalie schools privately? Let's give a little plug there as well.

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, we we have three places we do lessons in Pittsburgh, and we've had Okay. A lot of success out there. But like I said, the small ice is great because you can keep the cost of everything down because our... As you know, hockey is kind of expensive.

That's a different story for a different time. But I I think the mobility piece of it is why we've had so many goalies be successful. Go play other places. Like... So I...

You know, if you can't move, you can't play. And I hate to sound like... I don't wanna sound negative about that, but at the end of the day, like, it... It's just the truth.

Yeah. And and so the smaller pads are like... I'm trying to picture it in my mind because I haven't seen it, Shane. So, like, we're just basically crease areas of ice, and so it's just all about

Yeah. They're like... We'll say they're 15 by 15 or a little bigger than that in some of them. And then, you know, just all the fundamentals, pushing, stopping. And and when you talked about earlier, like, you gotta be able to change directions too.

And that's that's when I talked about an... You know, part of being an athlete and the goal, you gotta rotate, you know, one way to turn around and rotate and push the other way, and some of it's up to down, sliding back while down, and and you gotta be an athlete to do that. But it takes a lot of rep to really get good at that.

And that's that's when I talked about an... You know, part of being an athlete and the goal, you gotta rotate, you know, one way to turn around and rotate and push the other way, and some of it's up to down, sliding back while down, and and you gotta be an athlete to do that. But it takes a lot of rep to really get good at that.

The the opportunity with Pittsburgh, talk to me about that because it was it was really early, like, you're in your coaching career. Like, right out of the gate, you know, you mentioned Dany Sabourin. I mean, you know, when I look at their roster, I'm trying to think who was actually there that year, but, like, you've got a Fleury, a Sebastian Caron, Jocelyn, Thibault, like, some some really big names there, and and you hadn't been coaching all that long. What was that experience like?

Well, honestly, I'm probably a way better coach now than I was then. But I think to me, you know, I just jumped in with both feet and was ready. And I I think what, you know, comes back to what Ian says all the time. He just... I went to dinner with, you know, Flower and Thibo and Sebastian, we're...

We just talk. You know? And and the goalies are... Especially today, like, if if I show up here in Sioux City and I ask Hugo, hey. What do you wanna work on?

They know it pretty quickly. Hey, Cliff. Yeah. I've had trouble when the guy's on the power play and they throw it low, and then he can attack the net or pass it. You know, whether it's exiting exiting from your reverse or exiting while down.

You know, that might be... Just as an example. You know? So they know their games, and and Thibo and Caron and those guys were were the same way. And, you know, Fleury was obviously Fleury, you know, as far as just the first time you see him on the ice and, like, you're on the ice and you see how fast he can rotate and move, you're like, oh my gosh.

Especially when rotation and proper... And and, like, butterfly recoveries were relatively new. I think he's first guy that sort of took that knee right across the plane of the middle and got that rotation.

Yeah. And just how quickly he could change directions, and I'm like, you know, like, he he could butterflies... There was games he had butterfly to slide to the right, rotate, wall down, and push over to left and make another save, and he got there so fast the puck would hit him in the Now this is the NHL. You know what I mean? So the first time you really get to see him move around, it's really special.

And one that... Just a solid human being. But T-bo was awesome. Was awesome. I mean, I go out with those dudes, I could never pay for nothing.

They'd be like, you know, you get your wallet and they're like, are doing? I'm like, well, I'm gonna pay for mail mail. They're like, with... You're with us, you're not allowed to do that. I'm like, okay.

So that part was great to it. And then I... Relationships with other goalies I go see. But at the end of the day, going there was just about talking and and basically figuring out, hey. What what do you guys wanna work on?

A lot of... Like, through that early time in your coaching career, there was a lot of, you know, two jobs, multiple hats. We talked about all... And that's the nature of it. Right?

Right up to the national hockey teams didn't have full time goaltending coaches. It wasn't common. So a lot of guys had to wear different hats in multiple locations. But I'm I'm curious how you balanced Everett in the Western Hockey League with Youngstown. Because that...

I mean, that... That's not next door. Right? Like, that's that's a bit of Yeah. A

You travel a lot. My wife puts up with it. But, you know, part of it is just in the summertime, things slow down. We do some Kansas stuff or whatever. And then when it...

Once you get going, you just get going. And you spend a lot of time in hotels too. So, like, you have time, you know, to watch the extra video or do ever... Whatever we think we have to do to, you know, get ready to go to the next place or whatever. So, you know, that's part of it.

But to me, it's just like writing things down and just basically plugging away at them. You know what mean? But, it's kind of a general thing, but, you know, the goalies are goalies and just making sure you're in contact with them and talking to them all the time. And and it actually goes pretty smooth, to be honest with you.

Do you use a lot of video? Like, when... Especially when you're when you've got multiple hats and you're trying to keep track of goalies in multiple different areas, and I'm guessing that's evolved as well because it wouldn't have even been nearly as accessible back then as it is now.

No. So I worked with Kevin Constantine in in Everett, and he's cutting video in 1989. You know what I mean? So it's just something you had to do. When I was in Pittsburgh, we...

I was with Michel Therrien in the AHL and Eddie Olczyk in the NHL, and we had to cut our own video. So I'm literally with a VCR, you know, cutting video so I could show Dany Sabourin, you know, some of the clips. Because I remember one clip, he would back up to the post instead of turning and and pushing, and I had to stop backing up was too slow. And then he he just got laced with his ice awareness. So that was part of it.

But, yeah, it's it's definitely a loss.

Literally, like like, with a, like, exacto knife or, like, you're literally cutting video.

Yeah. You had to cut... Know, so you get it from the VCR and you have another VCR and then you would... Whatever you wanted to get a clip, had to record it from the other VCR.

So I mean, now There's a there's a whole bunch of young goalies and probably even a few goalie parents that are like, what's a VCR? So we're we're we're speaking in languages that they don't understand. But the the point folks would be you don't know how good you got now.

Oh, a 100%. And that would take hours to do. But it's just one of those things, you know, you're there and you just... You know, next thing you know, you put your hat on backwards and you get to work and it's six hours later and and you're done, you know, or whatever it is. But now, like you just said, we go on instat pull it up.

It... It's easy. I don't have to cut the video anymore. So it's definitely changed a lot for sure. But as far as the different hats, it's just more of just being organized and and trying to just kinda keeping up on everything, to be honest with you, which is easy to do with video today.

And how and how do you use a video? Give me an example. Right? Because probably young... There's...

Again, there's a lot of parents, young kids that, you know, they wanna get to this level. Like, they they see junior hockey as a stepping stone, the level you're coaching, a director of goaltending role as well. Can they be using their own video? Do they need to learn how to watch their own video, what to look for rather than waiting till they get to that level? And if so, how how would you...

Can you give an example of how you'd use video?

So I I think that's a... Okay. So if you're... You know, for different ages, it'd probably be different.

Right. And that's how I'm curious. Yeah.

So if you're, you know, maybe nine years old, do you probably need to watch your video? No. I think it's just going and doing more lessons and working on fundamentals. As you get older, let's say you're 15 or above. Like, I work with the New Jersey Rockets.

They're u sixteen, eighteen team. Right? So when you go out there, part of that is that a lot of those kids, they take ownership in their own game. So when you... They say watch this clip or that clip, they've already watched it 10 times.

And, honestly, when you go watch a clip, you'll see the goal going in that, and then you'll think it hit off this, and now, like, show it it hits off something totally different. So you just kinda sit down and talk about it. Or whenever, you know, you're there, the video would... I just watch it on my own. And then when I get there, more prepared, but it...

It's pretty easy to do, honestly.

Well, there's a lesson there. Right? The kids are getting up to the highest level or watching their own video because if you're if you're a young goalie that maybe... You're... To your point, yes, not too young.

The nine year... Like, just watch hockey in general. Learn to connect the patterns innately in your game as you watch more hockey. Watch it through the goalie lens. But as they get older, like, you you probably can't wait to junior to start watching your own video.

You're probably... I don't wanna say behind, but you you know, the other guys are.

No. I... So answer your question more specifically. You... You'll know the kids that are all in are all in.

You know what I mean? So, like, when you're nine, they're probably not all in. I don't know if they should be.

They should know. Exactly.

But, you know, at at 15, the kids that are more serious about... They've watched their video. They've watched it themselves. A lot of them, like the guys in New Jersey, they've already taken notes on why they think that went in, what they could do differently. Now this is what they've done on their own.

And then there's... I mean, then we're gonna get into how... They know how much they sleep. They know what they're gonna eat for dinner. They're gonna know how many calories they burned.

You know what mean? Like... So that's kind of a a fuller picture, but the kids, like I said, when I go there in New Jersey, they'll definitely know all that. But as far as the video goes itself, I mean, there's until you've watched yourself, I don't... It's hard to really, you know, get better at stuff.

You know what I mean? Because things happen so fast. You think this happened or that happened. When you watch video, it's right in front of you.

Do you... Is any... Anything else? Like... Because, again, there's gonna be a lot of young parents and and goalies that are like, okay.

Like, I wanna get to that level. You know, advice? Like, it's kind of a open ended question, and I and I haven't narrowed it enough to make it easy to answer. But, you know, I I think there's one there, like, in terms of how you watch your own game and learn how to be your own goalie coach a little bit. It's another another Ian phrase we're used to here.

But, you know, what what what other type of advice other than that path? Like, how to get seen? There's all the junior camps. Like, you know, those decisions on which ones to go to, which ones to skip, things like that. Like, it's it's a really tough landscape right now.

It's really hard on parents.

We could talk about this for ten hours, the way you phrase it. I I think you gotta play... You can't go... I tell people, you can't go play in a witness hockey protection program and play a level where people's not gonna ever watch you. I mean, there are certain levels that'll be watched.

So I I think the quickest way to answer your question... Let's say I'm gonna go play at... Let's just say the Sioux City Musketeers. I'm just making this, you know, easy. How many people they moved on to division one college?

Well, there's a lot. So if you know you go there, you're probably gonna go play division one college. So... But let's say you're on your... A triple a team that's by your house.

You know? Like, how many... You... It's on the Internet. You know?

It's easy to find. Type a couple... Hit a couple buttons, now that whole... Whoever they've sent on the juniors and what junior leagues they've sent them on to. And all of it's...

Generally, a lot of people can do their own homework on this too, and it's I think, it's kind of... I wouldn't say it's easy to do, but it's not as difficult as think it... As people think it is. Let's say, in my area, we have the Pens Elite. So if you go look at the Pens Elite, how many kids have they sent on to other place?

And there's quite a bit, so that's a place you'd wanna go to. And there's other organizations that really don't send anybody on, so that's a place you'd probably wanna try to avoid.

There's so many goalies out there. And like you said, with InStat, you have the ability to sort of find them or at least watch video on them much easier than you ever had before. So how much of it is you having to go out and find guys for... And how much of it is, like like, in college at the lower levels for outside... I'll go with an example outside of goaltending, Shane, just because it's one I know.

Like, my kid, as she was trying to get into some volleyball opportunities, like, she had to cut her own video, make her own tapes, send emails, and she eventually landed a a div two spot. So, thankfully, in Hawaii. So I get to go watch her play in the sunshine, which is really nice.

Oh, congrats.

That's awesome. It's great. I'm the proudest dad proudest dad in the world.

You should do a goalie camp over there.

Yeah. There... If only they had ice. Yeah. At the junior level, like, does that work, or do you have to be in places where you're finding them?

Or do you get people that send you letters and notes and re... Can you can you be your own recruiter?

You can a little bit, but the budgets from these USHL teams, CHL teams are so big now. And we were talking millions of dollars. So my point being to that is if you're in one of those spots, they are gonna see you. There's no one that people don't see anymore. You know, that just doesn't happen.

You know? Always a diamond in the rough. Well, if he's that good, people are gonna watch you. Like, Sean Clark, our GM here in in Sioux City, I bet he watches a thousand games a year. Maybe 500 of those will be live.

Another 500 will be on video. And then... But he's got guys under him. And so we have... If you name a city or a state or a city, he he can probably tell you because that's obviously his job of it.

He can tell you who's there, who's watching it, where he's going this weekend, and there's a specific plan to watch all the best kids.

What what about the other side of those kids? Right? Like like, how they stop pucks is obviously most important, but relationship building, like, that's a part of scouting. Do you get involved in that, or is just strictly your GM take care of that side of it? Because it's, know, like, hey.

The talent matters, but so does the person sometimes.

Well, the person's big. Like, I think everybody wants to just be surrounded by a good human being. You know what mean? Like, there's so many good players. Like, if you're not saying a bad person or just rub people the wrong way or, you know, sometimes you're just not worth dealing with.

You know what mean? Because I can... Everybody can be replaced so quickly. And that sounds mean, but that's really the truth of it. Like, I can go put up with this kid or not put up with this kid.

Well, he's not worth it. So being a good human, I think, is a is a massive part of that and then being talented. And I think putting those two things together obviously gives you a better opportunity.

I'm curious because you're seeing it at the junior level. You talked about the skill. Right? Like, we see it at the National Hockey League level when I'm covering games. Like, the skill's just off the charts of the players.

Like I said, goalies used to be so far ahead of the curve. They've clearly caught up, and I think you could argue the pendulum swung towards the players. Any idea any ideas maybe at your... Because it starts at your level and trickles at... You know, it put...

It's it's usually not the trickle down. It's the push up from the youth. Going right back to, you know, the conversation about 2004, we had 12 year olds doing proper leg recoveries and NHL guys not. Right? Eventually, those 12 year olds

Right.

Exactly. Graduated.

Yeah. It's kinda crazy to think about it.

So I'm curious, if you have any ideas, how do we get back ahead? Like, how do we swing that pendulum back towards? This is a really tough question. I'm putting you on the spot here, but, you know, like, it's sort of a question that I'm hearing more and more.

Well, I think it's a... That's... It's a great question. I think if we actually knew that, we'd probably wouldn't be talking right now.

Yeah.

My biggest thing I I think with that is... That's a great question, by the way. I mean, you're making me think, which is great. But I I think I think it's just gonna kinda be where it is because as far as I think the defensive structure, you know, is a big factor there. Because if you give anybody time and space, no matter what goalie you you are or what league you're in, you you got a very good chance of getting scored on.

And I think what's happened now is that this... The defensive structure is just... It's gotta be gotta be really good. Or you... Because it...

I don't think it matters who your goalie is because these guys are just so good. So I think, you know, with fundamentals and and I always just tell goalies, I guess, this is... You're gonna give up goals, and I'm okay with that. We just wanna make sure the other team earn that goal. So I think maybe that's part of it, but that...

That's really is a great question. I don't know if it's gonna swing back. I just think the guys... Everybody, even the goalies, even the players, d... Everyone is just so good anymore.

Have you had to shift the way... Because of the the talent level, have you had to shift the way you do drills at all? Like, is it... Do you need to emphasize compete more often now? As much as the fundamentals are the foundation, do you need to make sure that they're playing out rebounds any more now than than you did, say, ten years ago just because everything is so much more dynamic?

Do you put your goalies in situations situations that I think are natural in practice, time and space? We used to say, oh, like, that's not realistic as a goalie. Why am I having to do that a 100 times in practice today? And now it's like, well, maybe it is more realistic, and and you better find a way to bear down in these moments.

Yeah. Well, I think I just tell goalies all the time. Like, I mean, Ian says it now. Trying not to, you know, regurgitate the same stuff, but, like, there's not a goalie on the planet that's good enough to throw reps away. So

I like that.

When you... You know, it's nonnegotiables or, like, we're gonna work hard. That is... I'm laid back, and I I think one of the things I do really well is I build a relationship with goalies that I've... I worked at thirty years ago.

I still talk to to this day. So... But my point being, working hard is a standard. We are never talking about that ever again because that's something we're going to do other... Every day, and it's a nonnegotiable.

I don't wanna talk no more. I wanna hear about it. It's just something we're gonna do like breathing. Okay? That's how serious I am about that.

But if, you know, I think the junior guys, they'll get in and I'll throw some reps away. And I'm like, guys, if you wanna get where you wanna go, you are not good enough to throw reps away. So when you're on the ice here, it's... You know, we can we can cut up and have some some fun. But, like, when when pucks come, it's serious time.

Now as far as my drills go, it used to be, you know, maybe they had... They grabbed the puck and stuff it. That was their option. Right? Now you rim a puck.

They can stuff. They can jam. They can pass it out to the far side for a a catch and release. They can pass it near side, and that's gonna be a one touch at the net. So every drill has to have more layers to it because that's how the game is.

Like, I mean, obviously, Hugh G and Clark fan, you know that. But just the dynamics and how they attack the net. So... And then when you're in practice, like, to me, ice awareness ice awareness. I just keep ice awareness, head check, ice awareness.

So you've gotta know where people are because they're just like... There's goals in our league where they'll throw a sauce over one guy stick under another guy stick, and that guy that you never saw enough over there in the corner is gonna one timer that. So we have to know where guys are at, and I think that's the biggest part. That's that's been... Probably the biggest change to it all is just the eyesore in this part

of it. Well, then I love the... I love both I love both of those. Like, the the games become more dynamic, so inevitably, the drills have to be. Yes.

That, I would imagine, you know, creates more problem solving as well for the goal. It's not just having drills where it's not just move here, move there, move there, guy pumps it into your into your gut. Right? Like, maybe there's time and place for that, but it's gotta be more wide open now. Right?

It has to be because that's just the way the game is. And I I think it was one... Lop sided one way. You know, the goalies weren't as good, and then we caught up, and then the players kinda there. But now I think it's just kinda evened out, and I think that's probably where we're gonna be just because of everybody...

You know, everybody is so good at their crap. But I still think the drills have to be, you know, most side. There's gonna be more than one stage to that drill. So when we put the umbrella out, there's gonna be a lot of tentacles out there because there's... You can't just have one thing.

There's gotta be three or four things that can happen off that.

Ice awareness requires... Like, there is a there is a technical element to ice awareness. Like, it just needs to be second nature, but learning when to look off pucks. It's funny how I've seen this right up to the NHL. Like, some guys, you watch the goalie as the play's moving around the zone, which is a sort of a different approach.

Most fans just watch the puck move around. We watch the goalie, and the guys that are constantly looking off. But when we do our ProReads and InGoal at the NHL guys, it's like, oh, there's a look. There's a look. Finding those moments on the ice where you can have those scans, is that something you teach work with guys?

And do you see it as they come up? It's like, hey. Like, you can't just be puck focused here. You have to teach them how to sort of have these look offs and identify different patterns and and who's who's got what shot and where they're moving and all those different tendencies.

Well, I I think that's a great evaluation by your point and obviously... And Joe Goalies that you're talking to because our guys, you know, when they first get in the league, everything is just happening so fast that sometimes they don't... They're not doing it. Like, at the NHL, it's kind of reminding those guys in maintenance a lot. But here, like, it...

I'm in the, you know, grassroots of... Not grassroots, but I'm here, you know, in the part of it where we're still teaching a lot. So, like, we had a guy shoot a puck in a net and our goalie will say, Cliff. Yeah. I I didn't even know he was even there.

So I'm like, okay. Well, then when they had the puck on the boards here, that you have... That's a time you have to take a look. Or, you know, as soon as our guy might be you thought he had it on a stick, we still might turn it over. That's another time where we could take another scan of the ice.

So like you said, just making sure they get comfortable with the times that they can take a a mental picture. And we could get into Hockey IQ and and, you know, the seven things that Ian talks about being a that, you know, actually equal a goalie. You know? So... And that's a that's a long discussion, but there's more than one thing that makes a good goalie.

But to me, you know, if if you... You know, since we're talking about it, like, ice awareness is is massively huge just because of how the game's evolved.

Yeah. It's it's definitely... If if you're a goalie parent or you're a young goalie listening to this, like, next time you watch a hockey game, just watch the goalie and watch their head. I'm I'm blessed to see one here in Vancouver who... You know, Kevin Lankinen is constantly scanning and constantly looking, and it just...

It if you watch him, it jumps out at you. And talking to the goalie, he's over... Which I just did a ProReads with Devin Cooley the other day. And you talked about as soon as... Guy's in a shooting threat, and as soon as he turned...

Like, as soon as he started to turn his back away from him where he's not shooting, boom. Head's gone, having a quick look, and sure enough, the pass goes across, and he knows exactly what hand that guy is. He knows exactly how much time he has. He knows where the... He knows what his angle is gonna be.

He knows whether he has to skate or slide, and that all goes to having that scan. Without it, you're kinda... You're driving around out there without, you know, with a very narrow focus, and you need to be aware of your peripherals like driving a car.

100% now. The next thing we could get into, which we haven't

Okay.

Is how quickly you process that information. You gotta process it quickly. It ain't like you got all day. So how quickly can you process into... In information to what your next move is gonna be, it's the correct move, if that makes sense.

So 100%. And so, can you teach that? Can you can you improve that processing speed, and is it strictly through reps and on ice, or are there other things... I mean, we see a lot of training tools and things, you know, like like brain training stuff that can help improve it.

Well, for me, like, I I think it is... A lot of it comes to experience. You know, the first year... If you watch any first year goalie in whatever league they're in, not that they have a tough time, but you can tell they're they're not as comfortable as they are when you watch them a year or two later. Does that make sense?

It does.

All that just... I think it just takes some time. Like... Because when I... Like, say we have a goalie, Everett, here, wherever we're at, you know, when they come on the ice and play, you can't wait till the best goal...

The best player in the world comes down on a breakaway and calls a time out and take your goalie out. So when they hit the ice, they gotta be ready to play. So that's kind of what's different for goalies. Like, if you're the sixth defenseman on the ice, I can kind of spot you in and out and play you, you know, in more moments where you're gonna have a chance to succeed. When a goalie hits the ice, you gotta be ready to go and game on.

How about, awareness and understanding of systems? Like like, part of being able to read the game... This is another thing that I've... I, you know, I I wasn't... I was somewhat ignorant to it until we started doing the ProReads.

And and as much as I thought it would always be about, you know, what the shooters are doing, what hand is he, you know, how... Where's the puck on his stick, where... You know, all the information we look at from an opponent to try and figure out what they're gonna do, so much of it is trusting what your defense is gonna do and knowing where they're supposed to be and whether each guy is more or less likely to be where he's supposed to be. Those tendencies at your level, how important is it for kids to understand how to pick that up? Do you do a lot of systems talking and and instruction?

And is that an area where, you know, a kid could maybe get ahead of another kid by being able to understand those things even even forecheck and puck play?

Yeah. Puck play is its own... That's its own animal itself. But as far as systems go, like, lot of our other coaches will... Like, I'll go to the pen...

Pen and kill meetings. But as far as the other coaches, they'll really talk about systems and things like that, and the goalies will sit on in those meetings. So you'll... Sometimes you'll have, hey. His stick was in the wrong spot here.

His toe caps are facing the wrong way. You know, the goalies will kinda figure that stuff out. But then the player that's usually making those mistakes, just like obviously goalies make mistakes, you'll see them come back and... Let's say we get seen in a one time in the back to the net. You'll usually see the player, you know, come back and say to our goal, and that's totally my fault.

Man, I messed that up. I left you out the dryer or whatever. But I think as a goalie, the more knowledge you have about, you know, everything is better. You know? I I don't know if they spend a lot of time on, like, what other players are trying to do because they have their job to do.

Does that make sense? Yep. But they're definitely aware of what's going on, and I think that's probably where you're trying to get. They definitely know what... Like, so on a penalty kill, why the coach say, would we rather give up a stuff or jam or this pass out here?

And then usually, it's a stuff or jam. So in the penalty kill part of it, you know, we try to give up the less, you know, dangerous chance. But

Right. So it's... I mean, the game's so unpredictable, but having an idea of what your team's trying to take away at least can help you focus in on the options that they're comfortable giving up so you're on the same page.

Yeah. You're gonna be... Like, I don't... They might not know every little detail of that, but they know enough to know where, you know, the problems could handle or could happen if that makes sense.

It totally does. It totally does. Any guys that you... I mean, you've worked with so many over... Any guys that you...

Send out to you or, like, you know, like, right away, you knew that this young man was going places?

Yeah. There's been been a couple. I mean, well, when I was in Everett, I had Carter Hart and Dustin Wolf. Yeah. So we had two guys there, just lights out every night.

And Dustin was coming back from hip surgery. So... And people understand how hard that young man worked to get back from hip surgery. He's up, got his chest protector helmet and glove and blocker on catching softballs. He's just doing something that's gonna make him better every day.

So those two were... They were good, and then I... You know, obviously, Fleury was a no brainer. And there's... But as you know, you know, we had...

You know, Kenny Ryder won a national championship. Parker Milner won a national champion division one college. And, you know, Leland Irving was an NHL first time. There's been so many that sometimes maybe just don't get the chance, but, you know, there's a lot of them that are like, well, this kid's different. And people wonder what it is, but to me, it it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Like, it's... They're just so elite over everyone else their age. It's it's kinda hard not to miss it if that makes sense.

A 100% for different reasons. Like, you mentioned Wolf's work ethic. I remember him once messaging us because we'd done an an article, about a ball shooting machine that guys were using during the pandemic. Little... One of these little mini, like, was like a baseball thing, but these little mini balls and, like, I think it was Jake Allen and then Jeremy Swayman at Maine had used it.

And and he calls and asked, like, hey. Is this thing legit? And, like, because he wanted to find ways to get better, and he ended up using it and taking it as he tends to do. He added it to a slide board. So this thing was rapid fire and balls at him as he moved around on his slide board because there was no ice and things were difficult during the pandemic.

Like, that level of desire and drive to get better for him, is there... Was it the same for other guys that that you knew stood out, or did they each stand out for different reasons?

Well, this is gonna sound so dumb, but they just stopped more pucks than everybody else. But I think once they hit it... I think the people that get that good at stuff, no matter... Let's just say you're a guitarist or a drummer or a singer, like, they're just really into their craft. So, you know, for those guys, you know, working hard and doing something to get better every day is just nonnegotiable.

You know what I mean? So when I watch, you know, Dustin, Carter, Fleury, you know, Leland Irving back in the day and other other guys that you've worked with, they're they're kind of all the same a little bit as far as... They're probably a little higher on the athletic. You know? They got their hockey IQ.

They're all working on stuff, but they're they're just motivated individuals to basically, what can I do and what am I going to do to get better every day? Now I'm sure by the time Dustin's slide board was done, he probably had deflections and screens and people running across them. You know what mean? Like, just... That's just him.

You know? But there's a... You know, I think to get to those levels, like hard work and dedication to your craft is just... That's just a lot of them. Really, that's the biggest thing I think most of them have.

Just... And that probably comes back to the passion for it. Like, you gotta really... You gotta love it. It can't just be something you...

You're good at or you do because you're good at. Like, you you sorta gotta love this position.

Yeah. And it's just it's just a part of their life every single day. You know? And and people... And honestly, people talk about it, and and it's easy to sit here and say this, but do you really do it every day?

You know what I mean? Like, well, I'm gonna go catch three balls, and I know these guys, they caught 68 of them. They did 50 of their... I mean, they were in there for three hours just doing stuff to get better. So, you know, it's one thing to talk about it, but do you really walk the walk?

I love it. I think that's a great way to to to end our first discussion, Shane. I can't believe it's been twenty two years. I know there's gonna be other... There are other threads I wanted to pull on, but it's...

We're getting a little late here in the day, and I've taken up more of your time than, I said I would. So I I think we just save this for... I know there's a part two to come one of these days as you continue to coach goalies all over North America at multiple levels. Thank you. I love the passion.

That passion that you talked about the the special kids having and it being so clear, it comes through in spades from you when you talk about the position, and it was a real treat to listen.

Well, thanks, you guys. I still will say if people, you know, tell me how to get better, they should get your magazine because there's just so much useful information. I'm being, like, straight up. There's so much

We'll take it.

Patient. I mean, listen to Ian. Listen. I mean, you've talked to how many NHL goalies. So I think if someone's really serious about getting their game better, get that magazine and and just...

If they read one article and didn't learn nothing, I will buy that article for them because there's so much useful information there and stuff that is gonna make you think a different way or think about maybe something you weren't thinking about. But at the end of the day, you guys are doing an unreal job for goalies, and I think it's it's a great tool that they should use.

Thank you so much. That means that means... Especially for someone who's been doing this for so long, that means a ton to us. I I really enjoyed this. Thank you very much.

Well, until next time.

Looking forward to it, and thank you so much. I really appreciate this opportunity.

Outro

Kinda cool to to stumble upon a guy that's been doing it for so long.

Yeah. And you know what? Like, I've I've known I've known of Shane for a long time. Like I said, especially in the in the WHL, his his team's just always had great goaltenders, but just hadn't hadn't connected. And it's one of those ones...

We've had a few of these over the years where, you know, like you said, it may not... Like, we're always chasing NHL names and things like that, and and you forget there's some great interviews to be had with guys that, like I said, may not be a household name for a lot of people, but has just so much great information and so much great experience and a willingness to share it all and candidly. And so I really enjoyed that conversation, and I know a lot of people listening right now. Everybody that heard it probably took something out of it, and that's that's what we try and do it here at InGoal Radio Podcast.

And you look back through his journey and the people that he's been able to influence and go, yeah. Just probably lend a near there and pay a little bit more attention.

Absolutely.

Fun stuff, guys. We've got, a little wandery at times, but I think, I think we're able to pull it back. Thanks to Claude who has the little little signal.

People will be wondering why we keep talking so much.

We we we got a little Daren Millard out there. We started to chase a little bit outside of our crease, and then we pulled it back in like Woody to middle middle net debt back on the goal line.

It's always better to be following Woody's way. At least more interesting. I'll go with that. Thanks for being with us on InGoal Radio, the podcast. We'll chat with you next time on this wonderful journey that we call goaltending.