Lenny Mosca: Coaching PWHL MVP Aerin Frankel with the Boston Fleet (Ep. 372)

Intro

What a difference a week makes. Think about it. Woody and I hanging out together at Rogers Arena last week.

Very cool.

Having the greatest time. No Hutch. Nobody to keep us on track. We could do whatever we wanted. Oh. Now this week, Woody's in Hawaii. I'm in Minneapolis on the road with the Golden Knights, and Hutch is with us, and we can't have any fun, Woody.

Well, we can still have fun.

You two be good. I can take the shots, Daren. It's usually pick on

No. It's it's just we we didn't have to worry about you snapping the whip saying, focus. Focus.

As As we literally We've been here for half an hour and I haven't stopped you. We literally passed the microphone back and forth between each other. It was very reminiscent of our first ever podcast with me and Roberto Luongo in the car, just one mic.

Is that how you did that?

That's how You

just had one mic and you passed it back and forth with Lou?

Yeah. A 100%. It reminded me of that very much.

That was remarkably smooth. And Daren, I mean, it's hard enough to get a word in edgewise with Woody, and now he's actually in control of the only microphone. That was impressive how much we heard from you.

No. No. He he physically... When we handed it back and forth, like, there were times where he had grabbed it with both hands for sure.

I bet. I bet.

I I can't believe that that I'm in the same class or conversation of Roberto Luongo.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's as a as podcast participant, not as a goaltender, but I'll but I'll round it up. I'm I'm fine with it.

Number one in our hearts, Daren. Number one in our hearts.

It's InGoal Radio, the podcast presented by The Hockey Shop Source for Sports Langley, thehockeyshop.com. We've got our Gear Segment coming up, talking about the true three d printed tongues. We'll get into that and everything that's happening over at The Hockey Shop with Cam and Company. But a lot of news coming out of the National Hockey League. And for another week, Igor Shesterkin dominates our attention.

This isn't quite as memorable as the goalie goal as Shesterkin, who is piling up the points, by the way, and the Rangers were off to a good start, is out for the season. That said, where do you think the rangers go here off a devastating injury?

I don't know. But for... Let... First off, like, let's just... This sucks.

Right? Like, let's just call it how it is. I mean, not only is he one of the greatest goalies in the league, yes, the assists, the goal earlier this season, he's just so fun to watch. Right? Like, he's so dynamic.

He's so athletic. He's so explosive. And to see him go down like that, to see him leave, no weight on the right leg, to hear he's out for the year. Like, just as a as a fan of goaltending in general, this really sucks. In the short term, Daren, I think the answer's in front of them already.

A guy that, you know, we said probably should have been on the team at the start of the season that we've said for a year plus now is ready for the NHL. I think they go with Dylan Garand and see how it goes. He's had success in a tiny sample. Now the challenge is everything changes when you're the guy. It's one thing to be in the league and breaking into the league and and sort of getting spot starts.

It's another thing to be the guy night in, night out with no safety net, until Korpisalo comes back. And so, you know, I think he's a big part of this or can be a big part of this. I guess how it starts will probably dictate whether they feel the need to go out and get help until Joonas Korpisalo gets back. The challenge will be if if Garand plays well, they go get somebody and Corposalo comes back and they don't want to have three goalies, you know

Ugh. Back to where we started.

Well, Garand would have to clear waivers at a certain point here. And once that happens, I'm telling you, like, there probably are gonna be more teams that are like, how do we pass on this guy the first time? Right? Like, like... And will they a second?

So, you know, in the meantime, obviously, we're biased here. Big fans of Dylan Garand as a person, as a goaltender. We see the work he puts in. So, hopefully, you know, this moment isn't too big for him. I don't think it will be.

The Rangers have said that they're gonna be prudent here and be patient, and I think that does imply exactly what you're saying that they're gonna let Dylan have a little bit of rope here and see how it goes. I think he's definitely earned that, and we certainly believe in him and and hope that it goes very well for him. It would be very interesting though if it didn't go well for him. There aren't gonna be any general managers out there trying to help the rangers. There are certainly some names that they might wanna go after.

Jordan Binnington, of course, comes to mind, with Joel Hofer seemingly taking over the number one role in in Saint Louis in the early going here, but, I can imagine there's no general manager who's gonna line up to help the rangers and give them a good bargain.

There are names out there. One player that is not available any longer is Cam Talbot. What a career that he has put together. It put some really good seasons, all star game appearances, and now makes National Hockey League history playing for the Columbus Blue Jackets, Hutch.

Sure did. And and a little bit of confusion out there because it was reported by several people that he'd become the first ever to play for nine different teams, which is not quite right. He's played for nine franchises. Your buddy Sean Burke has also played for nine teams, but one was the Hartford Carolina transition where he played for both those teams. If you wanna call that one franchise, that that makes Cam Talbot, you know, the clear clear leader now.

What an incredible, but obviously very challenging thing for him, to accomplish and for him and his family to to go through. But, it tells you a lot about the person that he keeps resurfacing in the game. I mean, I think over the last few years, Woody, we've probably seen James Reimer take a little bit of that to be seen in a similar light. A veteran you can bring in who can support somebody else. You know what you're gonna get from him, and and again, a good person that people wanna be around and and have in the room with them.

And and I think probably what people are looking at in Cam Talbot being dependable both in the crease and in the room.

Yeah. Hey, listen. Like, at at some point, this is this is a credit to his longevity, his durability. Right? We hear so much about one of the greatest abilities being durability, availability for a goaltender, And Cam has kept himself in the type of shape that allows him to consistently year in and year out play however many you need him.

And it may be less now than it was earlier in his career, but, like, that in itself, I don't view this as a... You know, I don't look at this as, like, a negative record in any way, shape, or form. I think it's a real credit to him that he's still around and still an option and an an option that teams look favorably upon. Also, by the way, I do love the reference to Sean Burke because anytime that we can talk about Sean Burke and the Hartford whalers and those Brians whale pads that he wore at one point way back when, like, that's just that's just a reference I wanna make on the podcast every single time there's an opportunity because those things were sick. I've seen a few tributes over the years to that setup, and it's just it's just chef's kiss every time.

Last nine years for Cam Talbot, longest he spent anywhere is two years. Moved around from from several different organizations with now Columbus, but before that Detroit for a couple of years, one year in Los Angeles, Ottawa, couple in Minnesota, Calgary, Philadelphia, and played played well.

Yeah. And that's the other part here. And this is consistent amongst those that have prolonged success. I talked about ability, durability, availability, all those things, adaptability, evolution. Cam's done ProReads with us. He's talked about there are... He... He'll break down a save with one team, and he'll explain that it's a technique that he learned from a prior one. And so with each step along the way as he's been introduced to new voices and new concepts, he hasn't just adopted everything and and willy nilly tried to change his game, but he's really been open to new ideas, to new techniques, to new concepts, and trying to pull them into his game, picking the ones that he likes and keeping them. And so I I think there's a really important lesson there.

Yeah. And that's the other part here. And this is consistent amongst those that have prolonged success. I talked about ability, durability, availability, all those things, adaptability, evolution. Cam's done ProReads with us. He's talked about there are... He... He'll break down a save with one team, and he'll explain that it's a technique that he learned from a prior one. And so with each step along the way as he's been introduced to new voices and new concepts, he hasn't just adopted everything and and willy nilly tried to change his game, but he's really been open to new ideas, to new techniques, to new concepts, and trying to pull them into his game, picking the ones that he likes and keeping them. And so I I think there's a really important lesson there.

We heard it in the past. You know, Marc Andre Fleury was the same way. Roberto Luongo, two of the... Of only four goaltenders to make it to a thousand games in National Hockey League history, constantly willing to adapt and evolve their game because the game around them is changing so fast. And that's another thing that I think Cam Talbot probably deserves more credit than than maybe he gets, for his willingness to do over all this time.

39 years old, Cam Talbot. And we go to, the much younger 36 year old Jake Allen, who, like Cam Talbot, reaches the 500 game club.

It's a big milestone for goal. Like, that is the... Like I mentioned, there's only four in the history of the game to get to a thousand. There's only nine active. I don't know how many all the time, but nine active to reach 500.

We've talked to goalies over these. Remember Jaroslav Halak who ended up just a few short despite having a lot of success with the rangers? I was always shocked that he never got another contract there, and that would have put him over the five. Like, that was an important milestone to him. I remember Braden Holtby just getting to 499.

Like, this is a big number. And credit to Jake Allen who went through years where he wasn't always the starter, where he had to battle for minutes. You know, again, you talk about durability, availability, adaptability. Jake Allen checks all those boxes as well. And this is the one thing about Jake too is, you know, there's been so much noise around the New Jersey Devils and their goaltending situation this year and new GM and Sunny Meta and, you know, his thoughts on goaltending and what you should spend on it.

They they move off Jacob Markstrom, who obviously a bigger salary and a bigger name. I think a lot of people just forgot that Jake was... We mentioned here before, like, top six in the National Hockey League last year and adjusted save percentage. So, an opportunity to show that how good he was last year, he just need... Can he keep it up over more games played this year?

And so far, good. Not not only does he get the 500, but he does it with a win against the Canucks yesterday. And how about the... I don't if you guys have seen the video.

Oh, the social media post is awesome.

With with his daughter and his wife coming in with the special edition five hundredth mask, just like, you know, I I don't care how how long you've been on the ice and how cold your heart is. That warms it.

When Sheldon Keefe was announcing the starting lineup and goes to the the forwards and the defense, and they says, InGoal, girls? And they all... Daddy. It was it was So good.

Beautiful. So good on the New Jersey Devils and great for for Jake Allen. He's... Like, there there is... There's a time when when you wonder which direction it was gonna go for for Jake off the St Louis tenure, and and he he adapted.

He was a great backup to Jordan Binnington in that Stanley Cup run, playing the role of Tukka Rask in practice.

Mhmm.

And that story is legendary at giving the the opposite or his teammates an opportunity to shoot on a like goaltender and then the Montreal tenure. Like, he's done a nice job.

Absolutely. And one of the best people in the game. Right? Like, so Freddie Beach? I always say I always say as as journalists, we do not cheer for teams.

We cheer for great people and great stories, and Jake Allen checks both those boxes absolutely.

Got another topic I wanna get to, but first, let's visit the The Hockey Shop. Source for Sports Langley at hockeyshop.com. Before we get to the Gear Segment, bring us up to date with what's happening with the the crew over there.

Well, they've they've kind of recovered. We're we're through back to hockey. So now it's sort of that time of year where, you know, maybe something... Your kids outgrowing something. Something's not working the way it's supposed to.

Not only does the Hockey Shop Source for Sports have the inventory to make sure that you can get that replacement, whether it's a part or an entire piece of equipment or that next size up if they're just growing too fast, but they'll also make sure you get the right price, style, and size to fit your game now and in the future. It's why they hire only goalies to work in the goalie department. You don't have to worry about talk... When you talk to somebody from the goalie department, you're talking to a goaltender, somebody who's passionate about the position. So you get all that expertise, all that experience playing the position, selling and sizing young kids of all ages, and that massive inventory all at The Hockey Shop Source for Sports, the hockeyshop.com.

And, of course, we always talk about new stuff coming in, and there is new stuff coming soon from Brians. There's a new stick from Warrior, The Answer. So there's always new stuff coming in, but also always lots of sale opportunities. So make sure you check it out now at the hockeyshop.com.

And this week, you're going to focus on skate tongues?

Tongues out, baby. Yeah. I... This this is... Interestingly enough, and you're gonna hear it in rep...

Guest appearance, Jonathan Holloway. Jono is in this week. Cam was on vacation. We were doing some filming. Not vacation.

He was on assignment. Actually, he was. It was actually a work trip, guys. So credit to Cam there. But they sort of discovered this through Pyotr Kochetkov's Instagram.

He was talking about his Instagram. I was actually on the ice with a couple goalies this summer that were talking about it. Again, everybody wants that forward flexion, and a lot of goalies feel like they're getting that from this three d printed tongue. So a little bit of forward flex, help with lace bite, a lot of different things. You know what?

I've never used it, but we've got some people at the hockey shop that have. So let's go to them and let them fill us in on why this is an option you might wanna consider if you're in a True goalie skate. Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports, where we are tongues out, as the kids would say. Hey.

Gear

Welcome back to the Hockey Shop Source for Sports, where we are tongues out, as the kids would say. Hey.

What's up? We went with the youth. We went with the youth. Jono's in here today. Cam for the third straight week is on assignment doing important work.

We sent him into the field.

We did. Research. In the meantime, we've got real world world research. We got Jonathan Holloway, Jono on their social media channels here at the Hockey Shop Source for Sports is going to explain to us True's new 3D printed tongue. And I I think we gotta give a full shout out to the social media department here at the Source for Sports.

Tai Lai is the biggest fan of this product. Like, is literally handing us specs behind the scenes on why this works. Now, I'm gonna be honest, Tai. I've heard similar from goalies, Minor Pro goalies a couple this summer that talk about the same thing. So first of all, the benefits of a three d printed tongue. To you, Jono, we go. I know Tai's fed you with all the good talking points.

Yeah. Well, I mean, the biggest thing, and I saw Kochetkov talking about this probably maybe a year and a half ago.

Pyotr Kochetkov of the Carolina Hurricanes.

There we go. Yes. I love that on his Instagram he shows off different things about his gear. He's a gear geek. I love it. It's awesome. So he actually was the first person that even opened my eyes to this, but then True started implementing this and now you can get it at the hockey shop, is their three d printed tongue. And now, what's really nice about this is you get a really nice forward flexion with this tongue.

He's a gear geek. I love it. It's awesome. So he actually was the first person that even opened my eyes to this, but then True started implementing this and now you can get it at the hockey shop, is their three d printed tongue. And now, what's really nice about this is you get a really nice forward flexion with this tongue.

It's awesome. So he actually was the first person that even opened my eyes to this, but then True started implementing this and now you can get it at the hockey shop, is their three d printed tongue. And now, what's really nice about this is you get a really nice forward flexion with this tongue.

That is big for pros, and Tai.

Yeah. And you can even see it with... We put it in this stock skate, and just you can really see how much that tongue can go forward. It's, it's just really nice for your ankle mobility.

Kochetkov, was he in, like, a Bauer Konekt with the, the... Like, I believe that's what he said. And so the, the, the concept of getting a similar forward flex out of a more traditional skate with this tongue as you would in in that mechanical bar, or at least that was the thought process behind it.

Yeah. The way he was kind of talking about it sounded like he kind of found the best of both worlds when he found this for his True skates.

Yeah. So, okay. Some of the other features on it, like

You've got a... So you've got lace bite protection here and as you can see with this three d printed lattice, it is actually thicker in this area as well and then a little thinner by toes. the Sponge feel.

Yeah. Exactly. Reminds me of the three d printed liner and the CCM mask from a comfort perspective.

Exactly. And it's gonna mold right around your foot really nicely and it's also gonna provide a lot of protection so you don't have to worry about lace bite. Okay. They've made an improvement to the The Velcro? Bottom Velcro area.

They've made an improvement to the The Velcro? Bottom Velcro area.

Yeah. So, when this tongue was kind of first becoming really popular, they weren't actually stitching in the Velcro. It was just adhesive and they did find that it peeled a little bit. So now on all of the models, it is actually stitched right into the tongue so you don't have to worry about that. And with this Velcro piece, you can apply this onto your custom True skates, your stock True skates, and even older models of True skates that have been phased out.

Okay. So hold on

here because I wasn't actually... I wasn't thinking this. Like, I was thinking we were talking about something you could order custom with your trueskates when you're ordering a new one. This is something you can add to your existing.

This is a seven x six skate right off the wall right here. I pulled it out of a box, put the tongue in, and same goes for the five x four, the seven x four, the previous line skates.

So you don't have to be starting from scratch.

You can put this in... You can start now. You could order this and put it in your skate tomorrow.

Could I put it in a different brand? Have we have we experimented with that yet? Did I put you on the spot a little too much here?

So, I mean, I think it would be possible. Now, the one thing is is that True is the only brand that I know of that actually has the velcro attachment.

We might have to like... We might to get a little custom in the back room with this. Exactly.... Saying here, little little shop project.

Yeah. I'm not gonna say no. I'm just gonna say that it's not a plug and play option with any other brand.

Okay. One pro that is over in Europe right now that tried this this summer and and and expressed similar positive sentiments did switch away from it because he found that he was getting snow, would come in and sort of create, you know, like... Your foot sweats. You're gonna have sort of sweat and liquid for lack of a better term in your skate, but he felt like the snow was coming right through. And to him that was just not comfortable.

So for him that was enough to switch away from it. Something to be cognizant of. I mean, it's it's funny because I never asked them and they're like nine hours ahead now, so I can't really text them on the spot here. But part of me was like, we have pads over our skates. How are we getting snow on our tongues?

But it's a thing. It's a thing.

Mhmm. And just to that point too because it's something we haven't touched on is because there are you know just holes throughout this entire thing, you actually get a really nice air throat... Air flow through your skate as well. So it helps keep your your feet a little cooler while you're playing, and can also help your skate dry out a little bit better after your sessions, which is really important for keeping your skates in good condition. So positives with each negative, hey, it's like goaltending itself.

There's a give and take to everything you do.

Exactly.

I gotta ask, do know price point off the top of

your head? Oh, I would have to double check that. $79.99. So again, this is not just custom orders. My bad.

$179.99 for the pair of tongues.

Okay. We got it. See, we put you on the spot. Mhmm. I'm not gonna put you on the spot again with the number of the store, but you can catch all the information @THS Goal on their social, thehockeyshop.com, thehockeyshop source for sports.

All the contact is there. If you've got any questions about this in terms of, I mean as as Jono has already said, it fits all the True skates. Might have to get a little experimenting going here. Just, you know, again, something new with your existing skate that can give you a little bit more of that forward flex. If you've got lace bite issues, it might help solve some of that.

Just another, you know, innovation from True that I really like. So thanks for sharing it with us today. Yeah. No.

This is awesome. Definitely a bit of a more niche product, but worth every goalie knowing about it.

Well, according to Ty, this is a must have.

I wonder what the limit is for little tweaks to any piece of equipment that we are wearing as goaltenders when we're starting to toy with tongues.

Oh, I'm trying to think of the meme. Is it like a Lindsay Lohan meme? There is no there is no limit? There's a meme. Right?

There is a, like, a GIF or a meme that's like, there is no limit? Come on. I know I've seen this on the Internet. Young people, help me out here as one of the olds. There is no limit.

Come on. Help me out. Oh, you guys are just leaving me hanging. I'm surrounded by olds.

Oh. No. No. You're right.

There is no limit,

You know, we've all had that pair of skates where the the tongue didn't fit or or was wonky or bunched up or something that bothered or didn't didn't fit right. This sounds like it's a it's a great avenue to to make it more comfortable.

I think one of the key points was that it works in previous models of skates. Know, it's not something that's just an option for the next pair of skates that you purchase, so I think it's really cool. I love the innovation that happens through everything in our position. I imagine that we might not be far off before they come from three d scans so that they're custom made. These...

It sounds when you hear three d printed tongue, it sounds like you're getting something custom made for you. I don't think it is that. It's just made through that process. But, yeah, they look really exciting.

Goalie news on a daily basis. We love it.

Oh, wait. Woody needs to get a word in.

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. On. Hold on.

Hold Hold on.

Oh, yeah.

The limit does not exist.

Cue the crickets again.

I'm an old Crickets? The limit does not exist. Yeah. No. It's a Lindsay Lohan Mean Girls reference.

Y'all should know that if you have daughters. I knew it was from something.

Okay. Off that. Goalie news delivered straight to you every day.

Yeah. We've... We got a new feature. It's... Well, what is what is old is new again.

In fact, way back when InGoal started, this one's even pre Woody for a few months. One of the things... Yeah. Yeah. I know.

One of the things that I did was Careful. A roundup of all the goaltending news I could find out there for people who wanted to not not just see what the main headlines are, but dig a little bit deeper without having to search themselves. It was an exhausting process and so... And then eventually, Kevin came along and gave me some some great new stuff to publish on the site. So it it went by the wayside.

We tried it again somewhere along along the ways, didn't we, Woody? And then went away from it again. But now we're having one more go because technology is making this a little bit easier for us. It's still a fair bit of work to to compile the daily goalie news, but it's a little easier than it used to be. So what we do is we do a roundup of everything we can find, whether it is the National Hockey League, the PWHL, junior hockey, NCAA, international, just a roundup of of stories.

Any time it's somebody that's been part of InGoal Magazine, we link you up to some of the work that they've done with us and occasionally put our own spin on that news item. We just wanna bring more goalie news to the goalie world and had had some great feedback. Very much appreciated the people who have written in and say that they enjoy starting the day with the goalie news. And so there is a section on the website. It is under the feature story where you can see all the different editions that week, including, of course, the current days right up front.

And and would love for people to go and check it out and just let us know how they feel about it. It is going to be open for everybody and through to the end of November. It's a new feature we'd like to share with the world before at some point it becomes another thing that is for our InGoal members. And speaking of members, since 2019, Kevin and I have resisted raising the cost of InGoal Magazine. We want it to be affordable for everybody and...

But eventually reality hits and so on November 1, the cost for new members will be increasing to Woody's Woody's favorite price, 6 or 7 $67. You can see the kids speaking of memes, Woody. 6-7. I would

like 6-7. Six, seven. My my daughter doesn't even play goalie and she'll probably subscribe just because it's about 6-7.

For for everybody who is already a member of InGoal, there's a two year grace period because we are softies. So the price is not going up for our current members. And what that means is if you are sitting on the fence, you are thinking of joining InGoal, if you wanna check out the Goalie news every day or the ProReads or the ProDrills or all the great stuff we have on the site, if you get in before November 1, you get that two year grace period. So there's a value in joining before November 1 when the price goes up. After that, it's gonna be $67 for new people to join us.

We just can't keep it where it was.

Yeah. You get her. You... This is 67. 6-7.

Thank you,

Woody. Canadian. CDN, not US funds. We are a Canadian company. We charge in Canadian funds for our friends on the other side of the border.

That means it is significantly cheaper for you because your... Every dollar is worth like a buck 40 up here right now. So you're probably actually gonna end up being roughly closer to the $60 price that it was originally.

But anyway, the Goalie news.

Have you turned into a 12 year old without... We got the... These Lindsay Lohan memes and and now I've been the six seven.

I've I've been a little sick. I I I came down here to to see my daughter and promptly caught something. So He's been sick for seven brain cells down and Well done.

This Thank you.

Yeah. There you go. Six seven. Yeah. I'm I'm a little delirious at this point.

I may have... I've I've been on the island for five days. I think I might have island fever.

Goalie news.

Last little bit on the goalie news is if you have anything that you think we've missed, you think we should be sharing, we've missed in our scan of the news, just let let me know. Just send it to news@goalienews.com. You can also send it to news@InGoalmag.com, but we did secure the goalienews.com URL just to go straight to that hub on our site where you can see all the the news.

Or you can call Woody directly at (604) 555-1212.

6767.

There you

go. There you go.

Oh, AHL goalie goal.

We did last night. This this is one of those ones that people love to say. He was credited with a goal. Providence versus Charlotte. Our old friend Cooper Black, I wish we could just tell Cooper he got scored on, but he didn't.

He was out of the net. And and his team cleared it down the length of the ice with Cooper pulled and put it in their own net. The the the first goaltender to score for Providence, I'm gonna mess up the pronunciation. This is usually for Woody. Simon Zajicek credited with a goal last night, made a save on a shot from the point.

I don't think he intended to shoot it in the goal, but he gets credit for the goal. Had it gone to somebody else, I don't think he'd get credit for the assist because he didn't intend to. Am I still bitter about that?

Yes. It makes no sense. I'm glad I'm glad that we got a goalie goal in Right after that. Same situation as what we in in the Vancouver development where the assist wasn't credited to

Kevin Lankinen

Right? Yep. Yep.

The blocker save that turned to a two on one that turned into a... I think it was a shorthanded goal, wasn't it, Woody?

It would have been... Hey. Listen. And the way the season is going for him and the Vancouver Canucks so far, would be nice if they just give Kevin Lankinen in the assist on that because Whoever

whoever made that decision at NHL head office, you have a standing invitation to join us on the InGoal Podcast to explain the situation or maybe take the goal away from Simon, but please don't do that.

The... Because I was saying to Daren, like, this... Honestly, like, we talk about equipment and what are the innovations or what, like, the way the Canucks are killing penalties right now, they may want to give their goaltenders blindfolds and cigarettes.

K. Montreal has had legendary goaltenders over its franchise's history, so we shouldn't be surprised that that they're at the front of the pack when it comes to developing or changing the model. They're going with two e bugs, Hutch.

Yeah. I wish I had more to add to that story. I mean, I think we just found that when we were doing one of the news roundups one day that they

have They have a former McGill goaltender, and they have one of their video team, the video coach. So that... I I guess they're gonna split it. I don't I don't know how that that works, but... Yeah.

One is

able to go... Yeah. We we should track down we should track down a little bit more information on that.

I mean, What are they... From from the

other double zero or is it like single zero and double zero that are the uniform numbers?

Yeah. You you you would be

triple zero.

Double zero.

So, like, I mean, the chances are they just didn't want to fly a... Like, let's be honest, we heard this from teams. They didn't want a new person or an extra person or someone they didn't necessarily have a, you know, really deep, long standing relationship with yet

That's understandable. On the plane.

And so if you could use a staff member on the road, you know, it sounds like that's what this probably is, a split, where that staff member Yeah. Is an option on the road, but at home he's got other duties and you just bring in someone who's local to make sure they're in the building. And in some cases, probably hasn't changed anything for the team other than, you know, if something happens on the road, it's the staff member who goes down and gets dressed. And by the looks of it, doesn't go to the bench, waits in the tunnel just like they used to with the eBugs because we've seen a few situations.

Yeah. We aren't sure about that a couple weeks

You know, Shesterkin goes down, I don't believe the eBug ever got to the bench. So probably same as before, they wait until the second emergency requires them to be on the ice. So it's... Anyways, it's it's interesting, but there's a lot of sort of adapt as we go here going on.

Hey, speaking of Montreal, Jacob Fowler did something yesterday that's never been done in Montreal, but actually there's a piece of that that was never done in NHL history, Woody. Okay. So Fowler, first

of all, as we talked about Dylan Garand first and the the... How lucky the Rangers were that he didn't clear waiver... Or that he did clear waivers. Obviously, Jacob Fowler didn't require waivers, which is why Montreal sent them down, allowed them to keep Montembeault, who's now hurt, and Jakob Dobes. We said at the time, you could make an argument, you know, and there are some people believe that maybe their best goalie was in the American Hockey League.

And that is no disrespect to Jakob Dobes, who we are massive fans of. But that's just how high a lot of people think of Jacob Fowler. Well, guess what? He's back. And, boy, was he good last night.

Was it 31 of 31 or 30 of 30? Stopped them all in OT and then all six in the shootout. The first goalie, as you were about to say, Hutch, in in Habs history

to go You told us the Habs history bit, and I'll give you the NHL

I already read it all along online. So, you know, trust trust the Internet and the Instagrams and all that stuff, but nothing in nothing in regulation, nothing in overtime, and nothing in a shootout evidently hadn't been done before.

So hadn't been done in Montreal before. 37 times, it's been done in the National Hockey League. Three goaltenders have gone four for four in the shootout in this situation, Thomas Greiss, Martin Brodeur, Samuel Ersson, but nobody has ever gone as long as six for six in the shootout in combination with that one nothing victory.

So that's an actual NHL record?

So it is an actual NHL record. A bit of an odd one, like a Hey. I would hang my hat on that one.

Why not? My favorite thing was the Instagram post that I read this on because I do deep, dark research was that they claimed it was like the first time in the hundred and... However many years, hundred and sixteen years of the Montreal Canadiens. I'm like, yeah, pretty sure there wasn't shootouts for a good majority of that, but by all means.

The puck wasn't raised for a majority of that.

No forward passes.

Yeah. But hey, listen. Like, hey, listen. We're we're

a half century into masks here.

Yeah. Good for him. We all know how talented the kid is. Good for him to, you know, something about Saturday nights in Montreal for for Jacob Fowler. So good for him to have a night like that.

For the trivia folks, the shootout's only been around for twenty years.

Man, is it that long, Yeah.

O five, o six.

And so Fowler and Garand in in high profile positions right now after not making their teams out of training camp.

Yeah. Things can change so fast. They tell they tell kids, you gotta be patient, but they change so fast. Well, I

Don't burn bridges.

Oh, yes. We've also seen, like, you know, like like, it hasn't been all success, but we've seen seen some success. Like, Clay Stevenson got off to a nice start with Winnipeg after being claimed off waivers from Washington. Leevi Merilinen in, like, he's rocking a 09/29 right now, although he's clearly had the easier of the minutes compared to Kevin Lankinen in Vancouver. I mentioned the cigarettes and blindfolds behind the defensive structure at times.

But, you know, like, interesting that teams are... When they have a problem, because we asked, hey. Like, how do the Rangers solve their problem? Well, it's in season. But there were teams that had shortages of goaltenders for for injury or holdout reasons, Vancouver and and Winnipeg.

And rather than going the UFA route, rather than trying to find a Cam Matwiv or a James Reimer, they believed there was, you know, young talent that was ready to take a step gonna be available on the waiver wire. And in both cases, you know, having... Getting getting some early, you know, footing in the league.

And the Hellebuyck to New York because of the Shesterkin injury just doesn't fit. Right?

All the guys on SportsNet got all excited last night talking about it, saying they probably should do it, saying they owe it to their fans to to bring in Hellebuyck. If it's a problem, just deal with it. That was, Friedman and Bieksa going back and forth on it. Although to to Elliott's credit, he did say he didn't think it would ever happen. Of course, the problem with bringing in Connor Hellebuyck is next year you end up with two goalies making, you know, 8,000,000 plus.

Winnipeg significant returns, so you're gonna pay course.

And again To the Jets then before

put yourself in the same bind that the Jets are in?

Yeah. They're not gonna donate them. Hey.

Hey. Hey. Hey. Winnipeg's prepared to play without Connor Hellebuyck this year. They've got Stuart Skinner and and Clay

But they're not doing it to penalize him. They're not gonna they're not gonna donate him to the Rangers.

No. Would the Rangers trade Igor Shesterkin for Connor Hellebuyck? No. And then Winnipeg could look at him as a future asset. No.

Hey, I mean, everybody's talking about this trip, like

Well, if you wanna go outside the box, that's a beautiful one, Woody. I gotta give it... Give that to you.

Well, I just hadn't heard it anywhere, and it's like everybody... Everybody's talking about it. Like, and and don't forget, the Rangers have depleted their assets significantly already to make some of the acquisitions that they've made. Mika Patterson, JT Miller, like, of the moves that they've made already sort of have... Like, they don't have a ton of assets.

So, you know, if you're making a goalie swap and you're worried about having two number ones next year and you know one of them ain't gonna play this year, like, would you ever flip the switch that significantly? Because if you get Connor Hellebuyck with five years left, why do you need Igor Shesterkin? And I'm not having... I'm not making any argument about one being better than the other. I'm just saying.

No. No.

Everything they do is win now, including risk losing Garand on waivers this year.

I was gonna say, you gotta be a cold hearted person to do that, to take your your franchise anchor and just flip him like that when he's injured. I wonder what it does to the Oh, than to future people coming into the team. And I... There are some executives that would do it.

Hey, hey, listen. Irresponsible journalism here. Mean, look, I'm guessing that Shesterkin has a significant no trade protection.

There's trade protection there.

Yeah. Significant trade protection.

Maybe he would go to Winnipeg though, but but there is there's trade protection that he probably wouldn't wanna be moved while he was recovering from a significant injury.

Well, I mean, he wouldn't have to physically move while he's recovering from the injury. Right? Like most... The Jets could be like, hey, just just stay where you are, do what you need to do, get better. We'll figure this Mhmm.

Out And they'll have to trade another goalie next summer who doesn't want to be there.

I still think it's more... I still think Jordan Binnington's the more likely. I hope Garand just runs with it.

Hell of a test if

he doesn't. To be back playing by December 1 if he wants to play at at some point this year.

That is true. Yeah.

There there are some rumblings that that he will, in the coming weeks, if this thing drags on, return to Winnipeg. And wouldn't that put them in a situation? I have no We need

a CBA lawyer to tell us how that all works.

Peg, did

There was a breakdown on this recently that honestly, saw it in my feed and didn't have time to read and I wanted to because I couldn't... It was... It's kind of hard to wrap your head around how that how that would work, what that might look like in the room logistically, what the responsibilities are. Like, did the jets have the option to to to not allow him to report if he were want to? Like, you know, where does that work with their cap?

What does that do to to Clay Stevenson?

I I haven't even looked at the list pay him. If he reports, they don't have to play him, but they would have

to But do pay they have to do they have to accept him if he wants to come back? That's that's the question. I don't know.

Again, they don't have they don't have to play him. It doesn't have to be around the team, but but they they do have to

So they pay wouldn't even have

to report.

So you're saying they don't even have to roster him. They could keep the two guys they have and

Oh, I think he'd have to be rostered. Right. Right. Yeah. If reports, he...

You'd have to be... You'd have to carry his his salary.

I haven't even looked at

their In curious,

they must they must be able to. Like, they must have left that that type of wig. Yeah.

Anyway, we we need a lawyer for that one.

I thought you were a lawyer.

No. Gosh, no. I just played one on the podcast.

I dreamt of being one when I was a kid because Ken Dryden was one.

Oh, is that why?

No. Gosh. Yes. Absolutely.

I was Andy Andy Griffith in Matlock. I wanted to be a lawyer because of that. He liked hot dogs and he solved every case. It was great.

Hey. Just for fun just for fun, people were getting excited about, just to try and, you know, smooth things over with the pain of Shesterkin going down for the year. Since he'd been on that heater point streak, somebody threw it out there and said, hey. At least he's gonna finish the year with the highest points per game in NHL history at point five per game. So I, of course, had to be the killjoy and go looking.

And you brought up the Hartford Whalers earlier, so here you go. The highest points per game for a goalie who's played more than one game in a season is Kay Whitmore of the

Hartford Yeah.

Point six seven points per game. He got three three games to two assists in the record books. Wonder if it'll ever be broken.

Oh, I don't wanna ruin this great moment for our good friend, Kay, who we love dearly, but six seven. What? Point six seven, you said. Jeez.

Dylan Garand, you're welcome. That's the... Sorry. That was the episode.

Daren, I I don't mean to interrupt, but that's the true inspiration for Sorry.

Lindsay Lohan wants to interrupt you.

Our new our new price at at InGoal Magazine as of November 1, it is it is Kay Whitmore's NHL record points per game.

Vizual Edge ProReads, Dylan Grant, on the other side of a message from Vizual Edge.

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Vizual Edge takes a different approach by training the visual and cognitive skills that help you process the game faster. Things like tracking through traffic, picking up releases earlier, recognizing patterns, and making quicker decisions under pressure. From your laptop or tablet, take a personalized assessment, identify where your visual game can improve, then you get a customized training plan takes about fifteen minutes three times a week. Plus open gym mode to get as many exercises as you wish, and an eight minute warm up called game day mode to get your eyes and brain locked in for puck drop. It's a key part of the routine for NHL goalies like Jordan Binnington, Jeremy Swayman, Joseph Woll, Cam Talbot, and Devon Levi.

And now you can get now you can see what you can uncover in your engine under the hood. Head to vizualedge.com. Use the code InGoal for 10% off. And if you're a subscriber to ProReads, to InGoal Magazine, go to a ProReads and get the double discount code that is exclusive to our subscribers. Again, every ProReads has the member exclusive discount code for everybody who subscribed to InGoal Magazine.

Get 20% off Vizual Edge. They help you see the game better. Hey. ProReads helps you read the game better, including this week's with Dylan Garand, which looks at... And this has been a theme of late, and I think it's an appropriate theme, guys, because we're seeing a ton of offense generated this way in the NHL, low high pop passes.

And so a couple of different plays behind the net involving some guy named Kucherov, heard of him, think he might be pretty good offensively, and how Dylan Garand uses windows and shoulders and different stances to manage plays behind the net, make sure he's comfortable and able to stay on top of it and prepare for where that pass is coming next. So I don't want... This is a tough one. It's, like, five minutes long, and it is loaded with details. Normally, I like to give Daren a test, see where his goalie I like the test.

I know. I like to get... See where your goalie IQ is at, but I feel like this one, it would almost just give too much away. So I just encourage everyone to go check it out. It's like Dylan gives us a full five minutes here breaking down basically two pop passes, and and they're...

Both of them are a little bit different in how he handles them. So, I I love his approach. Again, he also recognizes that not everybody... Every goalie is gonna play it the same way, but I think for those that have been following along and and especially the Dustin Wolf ProReads, you're gonna see a lot of similarities. And I think this is a part of an evolution of the game that we're seeing at the NHL level, away from what might have been most common just a couple of years ago.

Looking forward to following the ProReads with Dylan Garand as well as his time with the New York Rangers as they decide what the future is going to hold in the absence of Igor Shesterkin. Stop It Goaltending U. The app brings us our parent segment. Hutch is standing by. But first, Stop It Goaltending U.

The app has some cool things going.

Yeah. Like, twenty five years of NHL goalie coaching experience right at your fingertips. You get to tap into the goalie parenting expertise that helped Joey Daccord reach the NHL, all with a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, app. You get all the knowledge from Brian Daccord, who's been an NHL goalie coach, scout, and director currently with the Red Wings, as well as all the insights and expertise from his staff at Stop It, which includes a long list of veteran NCAA coaches and minor pro coaches, all delivered in easy to digest chunks, including five short daily primers, weekly style analysis, and breakdown videos, and drills that you can take onto the ice with your team and coach. Plus, you get a subscription to InGoal Magazine included.

So check it out now at the App Store or Google Play and get the best of both worlds with a subscription to Stop It Goaltending U, the app, and an included subscription to InGoal Magazine. Hutch.

Parent Playbook

Guys, it's Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada. Happy Thanksgiving. Yay. To our American friends, you can take today's advice and save it for a month or so. A lot of you are probably spending this weekend at a tournament.

Maybe you're listening to the show as you're driving to or from the tournament. I hope it was a great weekend. Here's my message, and, my wife who edits this show might fall over when she hears me say it. Don't forget to celebrate. See, I'm not really a big celebration guy.

Not big on large gatherings, kind of an introvert. I'm much more of a hangout with the family kind of person. So why am I telling you to celebrate? Well, because what I really mean is don't forget your normal life outside of hockey. This game can be all consuming.

Takes the whole weekend, then the next one, and pretty quickly your family calendar is nothing but hockey. Nothing wrong with that, you say. The heck with hockey life balance. Fair enough. I could certainly be accused of being that person.

But one thing we talk about a lot is making sure your goalie has an identity beyond hockey and beyond being a goalie. That takes some effort because it's incredibly easy to get swept up in everything around hockey. Thing is, when all they see themselves is as a goalie, the days when it doesn't go well become a lot harder. And someday, when competitive hockey changes or ends, that can be really hard as well. We hear lots of stories about professional athletes who struggle when their careers are over, but it happens to kids as well.

Maybe they don't make the junior team they dreamed about. Maybe there isn't a path beyond junior. Maybe hockey simply starts taking a different place in their life. For a highly competitive kid who has spent years of dreaming about the NHL or the PWHL, that transition can be difficult. So we need to take every opportunity to help our kids become more.

Other sports, other hobbies, school, friends, a job, learning something completely unrelated to hockey. Whatever helps remind them that being a goalie is something that they do and something they may absolutely love, but it isn't everything they are. And a tournament weekend is actually a pretty good time for that reminder. Maybe it's a team Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe it's a family stop for a turkey sub somewhere.

Or maybe, and we're always really good at this one, you just postpone Thanksgiving until a date that actually works for your family. But do make it happen. Celebrate something together that has nothing to do with whether they won or lost or stopped 35 shots or let in six. Because as hockey gets busier and more important, it's worth reminding them and ourselves that there's more. Your goalie will thank you for it someday, and I hope that day is a long, long way away after they've had every chance to chase the hockey dream as far as it can possibly take them.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

You ever have non hockey dinners? As in, like, there's no hockey talk allowed?

We've never mandated it, and I don't even know if we're capable of it.

Yeah. I just wondered. Okay. We're we're not talking about anything about games, National Hockey League, our games, somebody else's games. We're just gonna talk about life.

Not many people have sit down dinners anymore even.

Yeah. But if you do, it

would be an interesting challenge to try and do it. Probably a good exercise.

Can I tell you guys something? I'm I'm whatever ish age.

Mhmm.

My dad turned 80 this year. We catch up on the phone a couple of times a week. I still talk to him about when I'm skating. Like, he he still asks me, you you skate skate this week? How was it?

Like, I I still have those conversations with pops. That is the coolest thing.

I love that. Well, it must be so cool for him too. Like, the first time you got to skate with an NHL team, he must have been proud as could be and...

You know what he thought of? You know what he said? What's that? I don't have to buy your equipment anymore. That was the, like, the first thing you

said. Jeez.

I hope he I hope he wasn't buying your gear before that, Daren.

I have a question about The Hockey Shop. Just to loop back. When there's goal... A run on goalie goals, like, can shoot the puck in that. Do do you think they have, people coming in and and buying up sticks that are, that maybe have wedge curves or something like that?

Do do you think that, that they they sell more sticks that are apt to get the puck up?

Oh, I mean, I... That's a really good question. I feel like it's a question we're gonna have to loop them in on that one and see. Thanks. That's that's a great question.

Fire up buying them because I'm I'm curious if if there's a a run on on purchases revolving around six that that are are better for for goaltenders to get the puck up in the air or get down the ice.

See, I I would bet there's a lot of pucks flying all over the ice at practice that week.

Oh, I bet.

Guys start trying to live the dream and picking off teammates in the back cause they just thought they could clear it and have all kinds of fun.

I I would say I would say too though, like like just on the equipment side of things, like certainly the conversation around certain sticks and certain flexes and and, you know, like that's shifted. There are more options than ever before, and I think that might be a part of buying once you reach a certain age and a certain ability with the puck. So it's probably part of those conversations. But interestingly enough, much like a lot of equipment, I'm not necessarily sure that what's being used in the National Hockey League is always what's available at retail. And that's obviously not just the hockey shop where they do have a lot of pro returns.

But, like, I think, you know, Shish Daren's a Warrior guy, right, from a stick perspective. Right? And there's a lot of goalies that are... They don't use anything else Warrior, but they will use the stick Warrior. And one of the interesting things to me talking to Warrior about was, like, I really like the new geometry of the shafts that they have.

Right? Like, the the unique where where the sort of twisted shape up the shaft, easy to slide your hand up, easy to get a grip, doesn't break as much, and yet we don't see it in the NHL. And I wondered why, and that's because the sticks were made at a different place and changing the molds on all the custom sticks that are made for NHL guys, having the the the shaft mold changes was not an easy or inexpensive thing to do. So, you know, in a lot of cases, these sticks... I remember when I got a hand on a Tristan Jarry stick out of Pittsburgh.

It was pro. Yeah. Remember? And it was a pro return at the Hockey Shop. This thing was like a wet noodle.

You could flex it an unbelievable amount, Daren. Like, it was the whippiest thing. It would be, like, the equivalent of, like, a 65 flex for a forward. Like, there was no rigidity to it. I couldn't believe it.

We thought it would be the coolest thing to try, and it was so whippy that we we just couldn't use it. But it's just an example of how quite often what you see in the NHL is a specification and a spec that might not be as nearly available to everyone at retail.

Tristan Jarry, who has scored at both the NHL and American Hockey League levels. Right. Check it out on the Goalie Goals page over at InGoal Magazine.

And also, how do we get in touch with the the Goalie Goal page?

It's right on the explore menu. If you go over to ingoalmag.com, we now, counting this week's, have 241 goals verified across leagues around the world. And if you've got more, send them to me.

I remember Daren having a conversation with Tristan Jarry at Tendy fest years ago. Remember Vaughn brought him in, and you guys were talking all about goalie goals that year too.

That's right. That's a few years ago now.

Oh, yeah. Because he was... I think he was just... Hadn't really firmly established himself in the show yet and had had that success in the American League level, had scored in the American League level, was just that year had moved up to the NHL. So...

I remember for an old guy, I remember.

The other conversation I remember was when you and I connected at Rogers Arena, and it was just the two of you, like, hanging out, two of us just chilling, recording InGoal Radio, the podcast. Like, that was... That felt that felt like like a week ago.

It was.

No Hutch. No. Ghosted us.

He's ignoring it.

It's always more fun when I'm not there. Right?

NHL Sense Arena feature interview. Lenny is gonna join us in just a little bit. NHL Sense Arena, of course, gives you access to training when the ice isn't available or you just don't wanna go to the rink.

That is absolutely true. And for a lot of people, we're, well, we're getting into it, but it's a new season. You know, you've got new teammates and new coaches and a busy school schedule. The start of the year asks a lot of goalies. Of course, we were talking about traveling for tournaments as well.

So getting ready means training the hockey brain as well as your body, and that's what NHL Sense Arena can really help you with. You put on that Meta Quest headset in your living room or your hotel room or wherever you are, and suddenly you're in the crease tracking real NHL shots, rushes, passing plays. Doesn't matter what the weather is outside. You don't have to book ice. It's on your schedule wherever you are.

Heck, Seattle's Joey Daccord makes it part of his pregame routine, so you know it's good. For goalies, there's the goalie advancement programs you can work on with angles and managing traffic, reading releases. There's even Pete Fry's mindset training with guided game day visualizations where you get to make every save he describes first in slow motion and then at full speed. And with an annual plan right now, just $29 a month. If you wanna start your season strong, go to sensearena.com, put in the code I g m 50 to save even more, and see the difference that you can make in your game.

Woody's hanging out with Lenny Mosca this week.

Yeah. We met Lenny... First off, like, talking about starting your season strong, I looked at the calendar, and it's October 11, and we've got all this NHL news. And a year ago now, we probably would have been two games into the season. Like, how much...

Like, we've gotten into this year pretty quick. I wonder if that's got anything to do with some of the injuries we've seen. So, anyways, had this conversation. We we got to meet Lenny, watch him coach on the ice, at the USA Hockey Goaltending Symposium in Boston. Got to meet him in the locker room afterwards.

Asked him, hey. Goalie coach of the Boston Fleet, Aerin Frankel, all the success that they've had, that she's had, he's been a part of. Would you be interested in joining us on the podcast? Knew it would be a great conversation about his path. It's a unique one to coaching in the PWHL, about what it's like to work with one of the best goalies in the PWHL.

Feature Interview - Lenny Mosca

All that we get into this week's featured interview from NHL Sense Arena with Lenny Mosca. Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. First time guest with us, but not the first time chatting with him for me. Got a chance to meet Lenny Mosca, goaltending coach of the Boston Fleet at the Boston Goaltending Symposium, where Boston hosted Goaltending Symposium of USA Hockey. Watched him work on the ice a little bit.

Really excited to welcome to the InGoal Radio Podcast. First time guest with us, but not the first time chatting with him for me. Got a chance to meet Lenny Mosca, goaltending coach of the Boston Fleet at the Boston Goaltending Symposium, where Boston hosted Goaltending Symposium of USA Hockey. Watched him work on the ice a little bit.

It was a real pleasure, a real treat, and I'm excited to sort of bring some of his background, his story, and his philosophies to our audience today. Lenny, thanks for joining me.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

What, let's let's go back here, rewind. I'm gonna have some questions about Aerin Frankel reigning PWHL, goalie of the year, and just absolute star goal... Olympic gold medal, all those things. But yourself, playing days, played up to college. Walk me through your history with the game, how you got started, and how you fell in love with this position.

Just like most normal kids, started in my town program. Small town, Lovel Mas. Most people haven't heard of it. Then I grew up. I made my junior team.

We had the Springfield picks in Springfield, so I made those guys. And then I ended up playing at Curry College at the d three level.

What... Now now challenges, it's funny. We just... We we just had Jeff Lerg on the program recently. Similar air to you in terms of when he's playing college and a time when the game was transitioning where size was becoming such a massive part of it.

You played at five foot ten.

Yep.

Was that part of your... Part of the challenges for you in an era where we were starting to see everybody look for big goalies?

Yeah. For sure. I think I kinda came on the... I I wouldn't say the back end of it, but my four years, I was the shortest goalie for sure. And then I actually started coaching there two or three years after I got out of there.

And, again, I'm five ten. My first year coaching, my goalies were six three, six four, and six five. So it was just... You know, when I was there, I was just finding a way to keep the puck out of that. And that was before we had real, you know, super structure like we do now in the game.

You know?

I I was gonna ask too because there wasn't a lot... Like, goalie coaching wasn't necessarily commonplace even in the NHL, so were you largely just self taught and compete?

Yeah. Yeah. I had a guy come in. This guy, Tom McDonald, came in, I think, my junior year to help out a little bit, but, you know, I can remember. I think I threw three or four two pad stacks in, like, the early two thousands.

Like, we were still doing that, but at the same time, you know, I might have seen a couple guys in the NHL do a power push or, like, maybe even throw, like, an accidental RVH. I was like, oh, I'm gonna try that. I see those guys doing it, so it must be working. I'm gonna give it a shot.

Okay. So what was it like back then for you? Like, like you said, just watching guys in the NHL, not a lot of goalie coaching. Have we lost a little bit of that, the art of sort of self teaching?

I think so. I think I think... I don't wanna say we get overcoached at this point, but I think there is something to say where, you know, I played three sports all growing up up until I played college hockey. I think we've lost a little bit of that in the game. I think that athleticism, I think that's where it's being lost.

I think so. I think I think... I don't wanna say we get overcoached at this point, but I think there is something to say where, you know, I played three sports all growing up up until I played college hockey. I think we've lost a little bit of that in the game. I think that athleticism, I think that's where it's being lost.

We're getting so hyper focused on everyone wanting to play goalie for, you know, ten, eleven months out of the year. I think that's

where we're

starting to lose some of it.

I was gonna ask, what are the other sports?

I played baseball and soccer. Soccer when I little up, but I played baseball all the way through high school.

So you had the good eye hand coordination going with the baseball, and I think people always forget, especially if you're in infield, they're like, footwork's such a crucial part of it. Quick feet and sort of everything of being synchronized and moving into balls and turning Yep. Getting it in and out quick. There's a lot of similarities.

Yeah. It translates. You know, those those two or three lateral steps is the same thing we do in goaltending. We're taking two or three steps lateral the whole game. And I think, like you said, to your point being an infielder, doing that along with the hand eye coordination, it just...

It translates so well to hockey.

So a lot

of kids are losing that one.

I guessed infielder. What position?

Yeah. I did. I was everywhere. I was everywhere but first base, actually. Second, third, shortstop.

I was kind of all over the place in there.

Love it. Love it. Transition to coaching. So you finished playing, at Curry, and you started coaching a little bit of high school and then were very quickly coaching at the college level. As somebody who didn't have a lot of it growing up and even into college, how did you find the transition to coaching?

Who were some of your mentors? How did it evolve for you at a time when everyone else around you, you know, was starting to get pretty technical?

Yep. I think I think at the beginning when I... Especially when I started coaching at Curry, it was more just... I didn't know so much the technical point. I just knew what didn't work for me.

So, you I... You know, if I saw that play and I and I did that, and it it never worked. So I tried to instill that on the guys I was working with there. You know, that didn't work at all.

Example? Can you think of one? I know it's been a while, but I'm putting you on the spot. Like, I'm just trying to trying to let the audience sorta... I think I got some ideas. I wanna I wanna hear.

And it it sounds crazy. This is this was back in, I think, 2005 or 2006. That's when we really that was when I... The beginning of when I heard what foot to get up with. I always got off of my right foot because I was just right foot dominant.

So now it's... You know, I knew I was always a step behind going to my right, getting up with my right foot. So I started to tell these guys, and even the old guys hadn't really heard it yet. Like one or two guys might have, one guy might not have. So even just little things like that, that kinda like, once you actually see it and someone says it to you, it's like, oh, wow.

You know, that makes a lot of sense. Something

so There's probably young goalies and and parents of goalies listening to this right now, and they're like, what do you mean proper foot recovery? But I'm telling you, I was covering the NHL at that point, and there were still guys

Yeah.

That I remember that conversation with guys. Like, they would they would get up with their dominant foot. I think Olie Kolzig did right through his entire career. Curtis Joseph into the final couple of years. Guys excelling at the highest level of the game winning trophies, and they would talk about watching the 12 and 13 year olds into the mid two thousands and beyond.

They go to goalie schools and watch these kids that move better than they did. So you were really part of a transformation. Where'd you where'd you where'd start to work to to sort of soak up all this new technical knowledge? What were the sources as it expanded around you for you to bring it to your goalies?

So as soon as I was as soon as I was done playing, I kinda got connected with Brian Eklund. One of our mutual friends was coaching with the Walpole Express, so he started doing goalie stuff out of that ring. So that was back in, I think, o six or o seven, something like that. So then he needed someone to help him work over there doing goalie skills. So he got us connected, and I started working with Brian back then.

So we kinda started doing all that stuff together.

Brian has been a guest on the podcast before. Yeah. Those who don't remember, in the American Hockey League as the development and AHL goalie coach of the New Jersey. Devils also runs Mass Crease. So you started working with him on the private side.

Give me an example of some of the things that... Because it was changing fast. Right? Like Yeah. The VH was coming in, and then, like, five years later, we...

Or I guess seven years later, the reverse VH. What are some of the things that stand out to you as you transition from a guy who just played on instinct to a guy who was trying to teach some of these new techniques?

Yeah. I think... Well, especially working with Brian, some of some of his theories aren't too. He's also six four, six five. You know?

So some of the things he was saying at first, I was like, yo. You know, I never even thought of that. Where I'm, you know, five ten, but I'm coaching a kid who's six five. Kinda... You know, back there, guys were blocking a lot.

Right? We would just get our elbows tucked in, they would do a lot of blocking. Well, that's something I never even thought of because it's something I couldn't do in my game. So that was that was good for him to be able to help me with stuff like that. You know, something that the smaller athletic guys weren't really doing.

What what we've seen the game kind of come back, to that? Maybe not necessarily... They still prefer size, but, you know, even at the PWHL level level, you're you're not necessarily able to just block. You don't fill as much space as a goaltender. Do you see value in some of the...

Those... Like, do you still... Can you teach? Do you teach some of the old instinctual stuff? Maybe not the two pad stacks, but some of the old instinctual stuff that allowed you to survive.

Yeah. I think I think that instinctual stuff, that's where it comes in where you see these goalies that can separate themselves, because some can battle and make a save and some can't. If you... If some goalies, if they get outside their structure, they're just lost. And some goalies can just battle. They're they're athletic. They have the athleticism, and they can just bounce around and make a save. Where I think some of that comes in with that overcoaching too. Sometimes goalies just... They have to be told just stop the puck. Do whatever you can to keep the puck out of that.

Yeah. I think I think that instinctual stuff, that's where it comes in where you see these goalies that can separate themselves, because some can battle and make a save and some can't. If you... If some goalies, if they get outside their structure, they're just lost. And some goalies can just battle. They're they're athletic. They have the athleticism, and they can just bounce around and make a save. Where I think some of that comes in with that overcoaching too. Sometimes goalies just... They have to be told just stop the puck. Do whatever you can to keep the puck out of that.

And it is... Is it as simple as that, or have you got some... Are there ways you do that? If you've got, like, whether it's coaching now at the professional level with the fleet, you still do some work in in college or with young kids privately, how do you bring that out of them?

I think I think there's drills you can you can design where it's, you know, we have our first save, no matter what, we're gonna play the rebound. So that's kind... That kinda gets them going. We do drills sometimes where we might change the drill two or three times quickly and not tell the kid what the drill is. Right?

We'll just kinda put them in the net and be like, alright. This forward's gonna do this. They're gonna move, and you just gotta keep the puck out of that. So now they don't have x, y, and z that they have to hit. They just have to make a read and make a save on it kinda thing.

I think drills like that kinda help with with those instincts.

Any that jump out as examples you can expand on, like a type of drill? Like like, I think that's a part of a lot of drills, like having the rebound, making sure you play it out.

Yeah. I have I have a funny one I do with the kids sometimes. Like, if you're if you're looking at the net, I have them kinda, like, angle at the post. They lay down, and they kinda lay their stick up against the post. I'll have a shooter just bank it off their stick, and they just have to play hockey.

So that goal is already laying down kind of out of position almost like they dove back to the post. So I'll just have the coach bank the puck off them, and they just gotta play it. So they gotta figure out. Sometimes they're diving head first. Sometimes they're able to spin into their RVH.

It kinda just depends where the puck goes, how much time they think they have. So you have to make a read every time on it. There's no x, y, and z on that kind of drill.

I love it. That's a great example. Right? We're not always in a perfect position to react to the next one. Yep.

You get some interesting reactions to that one the first time you Yeah. Break it

Yeah. There's... Especially the older guys, sometimes they'll be a little hesitant at first, but once they do one or two reps and if they're buddy shooting, like, they all get into it, and they love it.

Ever... Have you ever broken that one out with the Fleet?

I I don't think... I don't know. I'm not sure if I have with them or not.

Okay.

Maybe I can mix it in this year.

The... That that... I love that competitive side. What what about the other part of the game? You know, as much as we've added technique over the years, and it still matters, for you to have thrived and survived at that height requires some instinctual play reading as well.

Especially as you're you're in the pro game with Boston Fleet and video becomes a resource. You know, I think some people think that play reading is innate. Other people think it can be a learned skill. I'd be curious whether you think so, and how do you bring it out of people?

Yeah. I I think it can be taught for sure. I think I think people who watch hockey... I I I know that sounds crazy, but there's a lot of kids now that just don't watch hockey. So I think the more hockey you watch, you can kinda learn those patterns.

Right? There's only so many things that are gonna happen. Right? As as hectic as the game can get, you're still confined into a little area, and only so many things can happen. But that being said, when you do the video, you know, I think reading plays, trying to read releases, shots, all that stuff is so important.

You know? Just just... Even if it's, you know, if if it's a play or it's a rush, and I say, know, you look at the screen real quick, and then look at me and then tell me, like, who's lefty? Who's righty? Where are the sticks on the inside or are they on the outside?

Just picking up that little bit of information as quick as we can, I think, helps us make that save so much easier, or at least be early to where we need to be?

So, yeah, so you use it... Like, you'll use video and, like, quick looks and and ask them to have... Like, as a as a teaching tool.

Yep. For sure. For sure. Because a lot... Especially, you know, like this Pasture of the Fleet when I had between, you know, Thiele and Levy played much different than Frankel.

Right? But with all three of them, I I just wanna make sure they're getting their reads. As long as they're getting the right reads, that they can kinda make their own decisions and their own safe selection on what they wanna do. But my big thing, again, like I said, is just we have to have those reads. Right?

If the puck's in the corner, like, we're constantly shoulder checking. We're cutting all the information, where the players are, who's lefties, who's righties. Are they moving? Are they swinging it out? What's going on in front of us?

Stuff like that, I think, is so important.

I love it. Would you do that with all three of them in the same room? Because because to your point, the three of them might all play it differently based on the information, but the first part of making a read is knowing what information to gather.

Yep. Yeah. So we'll talk about that a little bit on the ice. As far as the video, we do that separate, but I'll constantly be in practice, especially if it's a drill where it's where it's in the zone or anything like that, anything where it's, know, a two shot puck goes back to the point. I'm constantly making sure, like, make sure we're shoulder checking.

We're shoulder checking. We have all... As much information as we can. You know, someone driving backdoor who has to catch and release versus a one time where we can play those two totally different ways. One, we might try to hold our feet.

One, we know we have to slide.

Okay. So shoulder checks are obviously huge because that's how we gather that information to know what might be coming next and prepare. Like like you said, if it's if it's a one timer versus a a pass that's gotta go across a body, we're pushing to a different spot. We might slide Yep. Instead of coming across on our skates because it's coming at us quicker.

Advice on shoulder checks. Because we hear it all the time, even on our ProReads at InGoal, they talk about it. But are there's, is it instinctual in terms of, okay. This isn't in a dangerous area, or do you have certain spots and situations where it's like this... Do do you work maybe even with the younger kids where it's like, this is when you need to make sure you have a look, have a scan?

Is there... Are there any other tips you'd provide for, you know, sort of when and then how to shoulder check?

Yep. Yep. So a big thing for me is anytime that puck is either... It's either tied up or the offensive player, you know, say they're cutting back and they're pulling away from the net. Right?

They kinda... They've showed their back to us. That's a quick time we can do a quick shoulder check. If it's a quick loose bobble, we know we might get to it first. That's another time.

Like, as as many chances we can, I want? Our goal is to get those. And then the other thing is I think that, you know, if if I'm in the net and I'm looking in the right corner, I think I just need to look at center ice and then come back. As long as I can get my head to center ice, I can see what's back there for the most part. I don't have to make full eye contact with that back dot.

You know? So I think that's the thing. If I can get that 90 degrees back and forth, I think we can scan enough of the ice. We'll be able to see who's on that backside. We don't have to make complete eye contact with them, and then that makes it so I'm not completely have my head back to where that puck was.

So that makes sense.

So, yeah, quick and short, there's no... And and even even if you don't see... Even if you can't see the back door person out of the peripherals, you've eliminated by seeing where everyone else is. I've I've had this conversation with guys when we do ProReads where it's like, okay, I didn't see him, but I knew there were two lefties and a righty. I knew he's a one timer because I saw the two lefties in front of me, or my scan showed me the two lefties and not the righty.

So you you said there's a certain process of elimination there.

Yeah. For sure. And at the same time, right, when you're looking... You know, if if if you're looking in that corner, now the corner of your eyes, you know you can count, you know, five jerseys that aren't your color, then we know we don't even need to scan back to the other side. You know?

Just be able to pick up those those those jerseys, lefties, and righties.

Love it. How else do you use video? And and, actually, I wanted to ask... To rewind that one, I wanna ask a different one. Because you mentioned it and we've heard a lot.

Kids don't necessarily watch enough hockey. So this isn't us or you telling all the parents that their kids need to stay up till midnight watching the games tonight as the NHL season opens ahead as we're talking here. But but I hear this a lot. So Yeah. My question would be, it's important, I'm guessing, to watch games, not just clips.

Yep. How would you advise? Like, what would you tell a kid about how to watch? Like, do you watch it through the goalie's lens? How do you do that?

I think I would... You know, I've had this conversation with kids. I always ask them who's their favorite goalie, especially with young kids. Who's your favorite goalie? Who's your favorite goalie?

You know? And then try to watch two or three games a month. I know it sounds like it's not that much, but these kids have busy schedules. And like you said, some the games are at night. But if you can just watch your favorite goalie, and then you kinda ISO cam him.

You know? Like, I know even if the puck's at the point, kinda just watch the goalie, and you'll be amazed how much they're moving. Know? You know? That's always one thing I get.

Everyone's always... You know, they kinda just stand there flat footed. Goalies are almost never flat footed. Unless the puck's on the wall or it's like a face off, we are constantly moving, and you'd be shocked the best goalies in the world how much they're actually moving with how much that plays is happening around

The scans too. I mean, I've I've noticed that, especially in the experience level. Kevin Lankinen, it came here to Vancouver, and it was just constant. Like, and the and the juxtaposition between him and some of the younger goalies playing behind him, I was like, this is why he reads the game so well. He's constantly adding information.

Yep. Yep.

The, the job with the fleet and starting it, what were some of the biggest challenges as you come into that the past two years? What changed for you? What kind of evolution did you have to have in your approach?

I think it was just more of a pro mentality. You know, I've always done college and juniors. It's a little bit different schedule. You're not really... Not that you're not managing the player's time, but you can...

Everyone just does the same exact thing in college. Right? Like, all the goalies are doing the same exact thing. Where at this where, you know, you'd touched on before, like, with Frankel with how many games she plays, we kinda wanna manage her time. So Right.

You know, if we have four goalie sessions plus she's playing three games that week, then she doesn't need to be at all the goalie sessions. Or maybe we just... We kinda pull it back a little bit. Maybe it's just a quick five, ten minute puck tracking before practice just to get our hands touching. And then the other two goalies will do a full skate because I know they're gonna have, you know, two less skates that week than Frankel would.

And that that is

trying to just manage it.

Yeah. That... Was gonna say that is part of the challenge, especially when you have someone as good as Frankel in a schedule that I imagine will get more condensed with more teams, but for now has been somewhat spread out. So you can play your star, and she is by definition... Every definition a star Yeah.

Yep. A lot. So how do you manage three? It sounds like that's part of the answer. You limit her reps, don't waste her energy or her butterfly drops Yep.

In in practice. That's a benefit for three goalies.

Yeah. For sure. And it's... And I always leave it up to them to... You know, especially Frankel where I tell her in practice, like, she could take whatever reps she wants.

We have the other goalies. They're younger. They can they can they can handle the extra reps. And even saying that, it's not like she always does that either. Sometimes she's just...

She's in there. She's battling through the drills. So sometimes that doesn't always work either. You know, she wants to be in the net. So, I think just managing...

Because we have we have all the ice we want. So it's just managing... You know? Obviously, I wanna do a goalie session every day. It's...

That's my job. So I just... I kinda wanna be working while I'm there. It's So kinda just making sure that I'm not, you know, throwing the extra reps at her when she doesn't need them.

I was gonna say that's... Like, we're seeing it on the other side on the NHL now too is we have e bugs and the potential for practice goalies. I'm I'm really curious, you know, and I think I think we can learn from the way PWHL teams have managed Yeah. Three goalies, you know, how the best practices, so to speak. Any other tips on best practices for three goalies?

No. I think... And and it's crazy. I know it's a little bit different. You even see at the college level, they're going with four goalies now.

I think that's a little nuts. I think... I like the three goalie prep. I like the three goalie system. You know?

You can have two of them that you can have... You can take in the breaks when they want. I don't see much of a problem with it. I've always had it forever. I know it's different at the pro level, but I think three is a great number for practice, to be honest with you.

Well, I mean, you've got it at the pro level now too. What... Like, it Yeah. What's the key to making sure every... Like...

Because there are some. There are some old school, whether it's on the coaching side or even even some NHL goalies that have been around for a long time that don't like the idea. How do you make sure everybody's getting the most out of it? Is it communication?

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think it's... And especially whoever's going that next game, we make sure that the practice too, they're getting whatever they want.

You know? And then after that, we make sure the other guys are still getting the reps. So if it's, say, it's a practice where Frankel wanted more reps and the other two had a little bit less, I can stay after practice and just get... And take more reps with them if they want. And we have the other goers.

Sometimes they'll grab me and be like, hey. You know, I got nothing going on. Let's skate for forty five minutes. So we'll do another forty five minutes of drills. And there's plenty of girls that wanna stick around and shoot.

So everyone wants to be in goalie world and be a shooter, so that's not a problem. You know?

Everybody wants to be in goalie world. I like to hear that. Yeah. The... How challenging is it then from the flip side of it?

You know, Abbey Abbey Levy moves on. Amanda's... Was there last year is back this year. When you're not playing, when they're not playing a ton, how as a goalie coach do you help them sort of stay game ready without actual game reps? Any advice for that?

Yeah. It's tough. You have to treat those practice like games, you know, especially when you're doing the the drills where it's, you know, we're doing power plays, we're doing, you know, breakouts when you come back with shots, stuff like that. It's... It is tough.

It's very tough, and you mentally have to just stay strong for practice as much as you can. You know? It's tough. So I think I think Abby played three or four games. I think Amanda played one, and they did awesome in their game.

So that's a credit to them being mentally tough enough to handle that those, you know, those launch stretches without playing, and they did an awesome job. So

Are there drills you like to sort of create that that game type environment? I mean, you know, the reality is screens aren't gonna be the same in a practice environment. You know? People don't wanna shoot into teammates. Teamotes...

Teammates don't wanna get hit by those shots and hurt. How do we how do we find the closest we can to that for goalies that are going long long gaps between starts?

There's not... I wouldn't say there's anything on... Specific on that end than I do. We've done a good job the last couple years even going through two different coaches where our practices have been pretty good at mimicking the games. You know?

So we... Our practices aren't very long. So when we're on the ice, we're making sure we're getting the most out of it, And they've they've done an awesome job. I have a little bit of input. So sometimes, you know, you know, can we start with a two on o practice?

Like, no, guys. Like, come on. We're not we're not doing that. But can we add in this? I know we've...

You know, we had trouble with this last game, so can we add in this for practice? So we start mimicking those drills in practice and what we had trouble with in the game. So I think that's where we kinda get in, and all the goalies are doing that.

So And you mentioned the intensity and the importance of treating practice like a game. Is that easier to do when you've got three? So... Because it's tough for the person that's taken all the, you know, the the sort of, for lack of a better term, the target shots

Yeah.

To also have the energy to sort of ramp up the intensity for some of those other drills, finding that balance key.

Yeah. No. I think they do a good job. They're they're all in really good shape. I haven't noticed anybody getting too fatigued in practice.

And like I said, I I... Very rarely is our practices going, you know, an hour, an hour and a half. They're they're quick. They're fast. So they're they're getting good shape.

They're getting their reps. So I think, again, you know, a testament to our coaching staff. They do a really good job with that.

I I I... Sounds like there's a lot of coaches around the league and other leagues that could probably learn from the way you're doing it. It sounds like this approach is pretty much ideal.

Yeah. Like, I... It's worked well. We've had, you know, we've had a few different goalies come through over the last couple of years, they've all been pretty successful. So it's it's...

It seems to be working.

Okay. Speaking of seems to be working, how do you work with Aerin Frankel? She's so good, obviously. How have you seen her game evolve? What types of things have you guys chipped away at over the past couple of years, if anything, even even small pieces?

And and what... And... Yeah. I'll start with that one, and then I wanna know just kinda what makes her what makes her so special.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's things when I first came on board. You know, there's a couple things she wanted to work on, couple things that I've seen watching the games. Just, you know, difficult coach just, you know, seeing her through my eyes. You know, like little things like how we're handling screens, like our debt management.

And, again, for me, just making sure we're getting our reads. Like, I think the reads are so important where she's so athletic. Like, we we have our structure. We work on our structure drills. And then outside of that, just, you know, when the system breaks down a little bit, when stuff breaks down in front of her, she's able to make that second and third save.

It's it's crazy.

The screens, and and that's another part of the game that's challenging. Any any advice or tips on sort of how you teach that, how she does it, how she manages it as not the biggest goalie in the league, but just the best?

Yep. I think it's... You know, for me on screens, think we have to stay aggressive. I think we all have a tendency where if, you know, the second we get screened, we all wanna go back because it's safe. You know?

I think we have to we have to fight for that puck. We have to find a way to see it, you know, depending on whether your team whether your team wants to front the puck and block it or if they're battling the prayer, we're gonna play it a little different because now it's... We might have to look over. We're gonna have to look side to side. But I think it's just it's just battling, finding your sight lines, and making sure that we're staying aggressive.

You know, when we start to back up, we get real, real small in that net. So that's always a big thing for me. It's just it's just fight that urge to back up and stay out there.

Is that something you can work on? Like, I talked about screens earlier. Is that something you can still work on in practice even if you're you're not likely to get quite the same intensity of shots into friendly fire bodies?

Yeah. I I think it is. I I really like our coaches adding in the screenshots. That's something we're gonna see at every level, every game you see a screenshot. So I think it's so important to work on them.

You know? Certain things in our game nowadays, you're just... You're always gonna see a screenshot. You're always gonna see... Everyone's trying to go for slot line passes, so we do a lot of that for the skating for warm up and stuff like that.

It's just the patterns that we constantly constantly see, I try to hammer home for them. You know? Just so that when they do see it in the game, it's easy.

You mentioned too that, like, working on things that maybe you struggled with as a team the game before, keeping it game specific, situation specific, system specific. So screens aren't just random. Like, I'm guessing there's a system, what lane you want your defenders in, what lane your goaltender takes. As much as, you know, teams will try and take that away, can you walk us through sort of... How do you work as a goalie coach with the team to make sure that the way the system's designed fits your goaltenders?

Or is it just a matter of they give you the system and you gotta make your goalies work around it?

I think it's a little of both. You know, for for our system, for what we do, the way we... You know, not to get too into it, but the way we wanna funnel pucks into a certain area, you know, when the puck does go to the point, you know, arguably, like, Frankel wants to know that backdoor's covered. Like, she doesn't have to worry about that backdoor scene pass. Right?

So we'll almost give up that straight on shot, maybe even give up that person in front, but knowing that she'll have that person and not give up, you know, like, that backdoor one timer kind of things.

Yeah. Mean, not... Yeah. I was just gonna say, don't wanna ask. I don't wanna get all the state secrets of your system.

No. But that's great. It's a great example because we can read the game and and identify all these things, but at the end of the day, there has to be a certain predictability. You cannot... It's hard to account for all five players out there.

Being able to eliminate one or two simplifies our reads.

Yeah. For sure. And it's it's just so important for everyone to be all be on the same page. You know? Like, we always say we wanna be predictable for our teammates.

That goes for our defense. Mean, like, our goalie needs to know who our defense is gonna cover, who they might leave open so that now she has that reach. She knows she doesn't have to take... You know, over rotate and swing to that back post. You know?

She has she has the shot, she has that short side play.

Aerin Aerin's been so good for for so long and had just an incredible season last year, obviously, both on the international stage and with you. If a young goalie comes up to you and says, wanna be the next Aerin Frankel, what what kind of advice? Like, what have you seen from her that stands out that you'd be like, hey, this is this is what... This is how you need to work or what you need to focus on?

I don't know if it's... I mean, you've seen her game. I don't know if it's one specific thing.

Right. It's just so good.

It's good, and she does not like getting scored on. You know, I think that's one of the things that's, you know, common to not only a lot of those elite goaltenders is they're just ultra competitive. They just... They hate getting scored on. It's not that they're like, oh, whatever. I I got scored on. Who cares? You know, they just... They don't like getting scored on. You know, I think that's something... I don't know how much it can be taught if it's more of a personality trait. But, again, that's just... That's one big thing with her is that she's she's an incredible athlete. She... And she's super competitive.

It's good, and she does not like getting scored on. You know, I think that's one of the things that's, you know, common to not only a lot of those elite goaltenders is they're just ultra competitive. They just... They hate getting scored on. It's not that they're like, oh, whatever. I I got scored on. Who cares? You know, they just... They don't like getting scored on. You know, I think that's something... I don't know how much it can be taught if it's more of a personality trait. But, again, that's just... That's one big thing with her is that she's she's an incredible athlete. She... And she's super competitive.

I think that's a great takeaway. Like you like you said, like, everybody plays the game differently, so it's not like that goalie asking you that question is necessarily gonna use the same technique or the same, you know, depth or save selection decisions as Aerin, but that Yep. That battle, that compete, that's a nonnegotiable. She gets pretty fired up in practice too when pucks go in? How how does she...

Because that's a balance too. Right? Like, we've seen seen goalies over the years that just hate getting scored on. Yeah. But, also, you need to let it go at certain points.

Right. And I think I... You see both ends of it. Right? She she picks her battles.

Like, sometimes she can get fired up, and other times it's like, alright. You know, it is what it is. It's just... It's a play. It was...

They're working on a on a pattern they wanna work on. It was a four on o or something like that. So it just kinda picks her moments, but for sure, she can you can see her get fired up in practice, Which is a good thing. You know?

That is a good thing. Well, as many say, right, it's it's easier to sort of rein that in, not that you wanna do too much, than it is to try and create it. Yes.

Yeah. For sure. For sure.

New teams, goalies moving around, you lose Abbey, to to expansion and and free agency. How tough is that when as much as Aaron's an anchor, you've got new people coming in on a consistent basis? I know Amanda's back this year from last year, but there's a there's a real development part to your job too, especially for that number three goal. You're trying to build them up. Ultimately, though, you know, you might lose them.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that... And that's what it is.

No matter what my job is is to get those goalies ready for a game. Because we never know we're have. Erin can play... You know, she plays all those games. Maybe she goes to the Olympics.

And we saw it a couple years ago where she went and played world championships, and she got ran and had a concussion. So we lost her for a couple of games. We have to make sure the other goalies are ready. Obviously, we don't... You know, you never want that to happen, but I think at every level, you have to prepare your players to play.

And that's my job is to prepare goalies one, two, and three. They all have to be game ready. So at any point, you know, someone gets the flu or a bug goes around the team or something like that, have to make sure all the goalies are ready regardless of who they are, where they came from.

And as we see more teams come in and expansion continue to broaden this league, which is an excellent thing, what challenges do you see? Like, overall, it's a positive, but it comes with challenges, probably a more condensed schedule, more travel. How do you sort of solve for that? Are there things that jump out as, you know, they're gonna need a solution this year or maybe a different approach?

I haven't... Not too much to start, to be honest with you. I think it's I'm interested to see the gameplay, see how much... I I think that the game's gonna open up a little bit. You know?

Because now we have... When we had six teams and eight teams, you had all these... Especially on the d side. Right? So I focus so much on the d side of the puck.

You know, all these all these good defensemen all on these teams, now they're all spreading out. Right? Plus we're getting this influx of all these new players and, like, the KK Harvey's and the adding merchants and all these drills coming in, all these great players. I'm curious to see how much the game opens up with that. You know, we're fortunate we still have, you know, a Megan Keller and a Haley Wynn, you know, two great, great defenders on our team, but now you see all these defenders starting to move around a little bit.

So I said, I'm I'm a little interested to see that and then all these extra forwards coming to how much more of the game is gonna open up.

And we've seen this, you know, in the game in general, at other levels in other leagues, like just less of those veteran experienced defense first defenders and a lot more

Yep.

You know, sort of offensive style of play. Have you seen the goalies have to adjust even in the couple of years you've involved in the PWHL?

Yeah. I think so. I think, you know, just the game with everybody, with all these younger players, they're so skilled. And now, you know, on the girl side and the guy side, it's it's not how it was ten years. They're not afraid to pull a toe drag at the blue line, you know, with a one...

You know what mean? They're they're they're gonna go for these crazy moves. Sometimes they pull off, and they work, and now it's like, oh, no. Like, this person's in all alone by themselves. So I'm interested to see that.

I think... I do think the game's gonna open up. I think there's gonna be a lot more scoring chances this year. So it's just gonna be something we're gonna have to adjust to as as we go through the season.

Well, these forwards have figured out that, like, the off season is about skill work now. Remember, it used to be just bigger, stronger, faster. Yeah. Yeah. They they kinda caught us.

The goalies were always working in the summer on our skills. How how do we catch up? Like, how do we flip this? How do you prepare for a game that is suddenly, you know, just increasingly every year more difficult and more dynamic from the goaltending standpoint?

Yep. I I think the big thing we have to... What we've changed in the last couple of years is our is our east to west play. Like, I think the game is getting so much more comfortable in east to west, whether a person can carry through the middle because the game's not as physical or that skill set is just they're gonna pass through triangles. They're not even gonna worry about that puck getting picked off.

Right? They're gonna try and make those passes. So it's us being comfortable with our East West game, whether it's on our feet or if it's sliding. We just have to be able to make those reads and get... And be comfortable getting across.

Where it used to be, you know, ten, fifteen years ago, that pass crossed the middle line, and it was a one time where it's in, it's like, alright. You know, it's a good play. Now we're almost expected to... Like, we want you to beat that on your feet. Like, we want you to try to hold your feet on that shot.

Because if that player doesn't shoot it, maybe they bump it back. We have to be ready for that bump back again. So I think that's a big area in our game we have to adjust.

Or that player catches it and changes the angle by three feet before they shoot it all in one motion as the skill goes up. It's gotten so hard. Is that a depth management thing in some cases? Like, just, hey. Less ice makes it for for easier routes on the on the East West, or is it more efficient movement or a combination of everything?

I I think it's a combination of everything. I think it's it's controlling our depth, understanding, you know, where the sticks are, and then we've added a lot of drift into our game or flow or... You know, everyone has that different word for it. But just like I said earlier, we're almost never completely flat footed. You know?

So if there's a rush... Even that person skating straight at us, we're still drifting back a little bit. We have a little momentum. Whether I need to butterfly and recover out of it or if I can just open my hips and take off, you know, I wanna have a little bit of drift. I don't wanna be completely flat footed or not.

I think that's gonna help... That helps make it a lot easier as well.

We hear a lot about holding edges. Is that a way to sort of add a little patience? Like, it's something Aerin does so well. Right? She's so patient on her edges.

That little bit of, like you said, you know, we were at the conference together, Mike Buckley, they call it motion. Yep. You know, different different coaches with different names for it. Recoil with the Bruins. We've heard from Bob Essensa before. Does that... Do you find once you sort of get comfortable with that, it can help with that patience on the edges?

Yeah. I I I do. I think it's huge. I think it's huge. It's almost like, you know, if a if a defenseman is...

If a defense is playing Connor McDavid one on one and he's flat footed on the blue line, like, he's just in trouble. We all know he's in trouble. Right? So I think it's the same thing with us. We almost never really wanna be flat footed because that pass just takes off.

We're just coming from a set standstill. You know? Obviously, I think there are times we wanna set our feet, but I think especially when we know that puck has that chance to go east to west, we wanna have a little bit of drift, a little bit of flow backwards.

Is that something that would have been in your game growing up playing? Like, maybe not... Maybe let... Maybe more than we got right now? Were you out at the hash marks?

I don't know. I couldn't skate with these players now. Like, to your point, there's 10 year olds that could skate better than I was when I was in college. The the the games evolved so much. Like, even the kids are just great skaters now.

I don't know if I could've handled that too much.

Well, I mean, it it does feel a little bit like we're going back to some older things, though. Like, the for the longest time, all I heard was set, set, set, set and square. Right? And now we're, you know, universally, not, I mean, not everyone teaches it, but we're just hearing more and more like, hey, you need that little, you know, again, all the different words for that little bit of release of the edges so that you have momentum that allows you to recover laterally if it hits something or if a pass is made instead of a shot.

Yep. Yep. No. I totally agree with that. And it's and it's it's something we try to get all of our kids to do.

And then once you get to the older guys, older guys and girls, sometimes they might just be set in their ways, and they just want their feet set. So if that's if that's the case too, it's... In that situation, like, we wanna coach that player to be good at what they wanna do and what they're comfortable doing. You know? So I'm not...

We don't wanna go and change everybody just to make them fit our little mold. We So wanna make sure if that player is... You know, if they go low to high and they wanna set their feet, they don't wanna have any drift, we wanna make sure they're comfortable doing that. Even if they know there's someone backdoor and they're like, no. I just...

I'd rather hold my depth. So it's like, okay. So we kinda have to work on that at that point.

I wanted to ask you, you know, I mentioned the work with college, obviously, the work with the Boston fleet. Do you do some private lessons as well? I wanna give you a chance to plug that if you're still doing that. I don't know where you'd fit it in with all this schedule, but

Yeah. Yeah. So I still do everything at Mass Crease for Brian Eklund. So I'm there, I think, three or four nights a week, and then I'm just... I'm running around.

Luckily, I work with... So I work with the Fleet and then a junior team and a college team, and most of those are during the day or early afternoon. So I'm able to do mass crease till Okay. Like I said, 03:40.

Lenny, this has been awesome, folks. If you wanna find them at Mass Crease, you can see him with the Boston Fleet. And as as he said, is is it still with Curry College that you're still working? Or No. Start with a U. Dartmouth and a junior team.

Yeah.

Lenny, this has been great. So informative. Yep. Really appreciate your time. We've got a drill with you at USA Hockey that we're just waiting on a little timeline permissions that we're publishing at ingoalmag.com soon too.

So thank you so much. Really appreciate this. And all the best this season with the Boston fleet and your other teams as well in college and junior.

Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Outro

Was it a chance meeting? Just curious how how you guys connected with each other back in Boston.

No. No. He was, he was doing an on ice demonstration. And so we were filming that for USA Hockey content that we hope to be able to roll out in the very near future. And so as as the as the video guy on the ice recording that content, recording it for us and for USA Hockey, obviously, he was in the room afterwards.

So we've got a handful of guys that we've met that way that that we're gonna have on the podcast, including Lenny. We've got more coming up. It was just a great way to meet people and, yeah, sort of extend the olive branch of the of the InGoal Radio Podcast.

Did you go... I'll go out 12 year old with him with your different six, sevens and

I was decided I was decidedly more mature and acting my age.

Woody's prefer... Pretty professional with people other than us. Yes.

That's pretty good that we get to see the real Woody.

Oh, we do. And so do everybody listening. The childlike Woody.

The childlike Woody.

It's good. Oh, how long are you over on the islands for?

To to... I believe Tuesday night, so a couple more nights. I got one more one more volleyball game to watch tomorrow.

Yeah. Getting in the water

at all? University of Hawaii Hilo. I have not been in the water near as much as I normally would be, thanks to said illness. But as it starts to clear up, I'm really hoping to get in a couple couple of times here, in the last couple of days. We haven't haven't had a chance to do...

My wife's been in the water snorkeling, all kinds of adventures, but I've just been a little too sick to, to join her. So hopefully hopefully here in the last couple of days, I'll get to.

Well, Happy Thanksgiving to, Steph, Jill, and, your families. Really appreciate, our friendship, our relationship, relationship, and and what what you you guys have been able to bring to the hockey world, and the world of goaltending. Thanks to everybody for joining us this week on InGoal Radio, the podcast. Enjoy and be safe.